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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 3:27pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Oh no, not PR because then a small group of political extremists could wield disproportionate power. Will be what the DM, Express say.

If Labour were to campaign on electoral reform - and abolishing the HoL is at least one small step to this - I do wonder just how successful this would be at present. I say this because another part of our current situation is that: 1) voting percentage rise with age and so the issues parties campaign on are therefore targeted accordingly. 2) there is a tribal nature which I will speculate also increases with age and it is pretty clear the Conservatives gain the majority of their votes from the 60+ category. 3) And then the population of the UK is aging as life expectancy increases, at a greater level for higher income groups.

There are, however, indications that current 30s/40s are not drifting right to the Conservatives. After what I have witnessed in the last 13 years it is simply impossible that I will ever vote for them. Many feel similar. This trend is newer and may mean the Conservative party is in deep trouble in 10 or 20 years time.

There is an inherent age generalisation within my post, I know (and do apologise for but we are taking majority here), but you can examine the data and things such as voting percentage and particularly Conservative vote do indeed increase with age across the UK. Take this as a quick 2019 example (plus another quid to Zahari's company):


I also put forward that the UK, current parties, political system, population distribution, class system whatever you wish to nominate, is currently unsuited to any forward-looking reform-based government.

And, if so, this is why the decline of the UK appears unsolvable in the near future. And I include a new Labour Government in that. Even with a majority, I just am not sure they will be able to get much done, nor will be elected on any pledge to get much done. We've seen Starmer back out of PR already, for example. It's perceived as too high-risk, for reasons I suggest above.

Momentum. European Research Group. It happens anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

I was never convinced  by PR, but would be prepared  to give it a good hard look.I have read a lot of what Totallybiasedscarlet  has posted on here, and quit liked what I read.
I will be honest and pragmatic  here, apart from doing what's right for democracy,  I would support  anything that prevents the Tories winning.
Regarding  Plaid Cymru, they are in an absolute  mess.
How can they lecture  any else when their own internal governance  is a shambles.  The "Edwards scenario" in Carmarthen  East,is just one example.
My friends in Plaid tell me that a challenge to Adam Price is imminently possible,  but the current political  situation  nationally  ,holding  that off.
It's clear to me we need a strong Plaid to  be wining seats where they are best placed to beat Tories.

Yes. Plaid is a mess. It's massively frustrating. Good policies. Half a dozen quality people. Lots of organisational problems that let bad candidates through the gaps. Needs a better culture and vastly more members and activists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 3:34pm
I voted green last time, if we had pr a lot more people would do so, i’ll prob vote labour under kier, not even sure what libs are offering these days they are so mute at the minute. Plaid a no go for me wales be totally skint if we went indy

Edited by RR1972 - 30 January 2023 at 3:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sir Duckling Tuft Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 5:22pm
Tories are vile selfish , labour have totally lost the plot and do nothing for working people and sme's, plaed are insular and petty, Libs? I cant even remember what they stand for anymore? Raving loonies it is then
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 7:49pm
In Wales vote plaid , join yes cymru and let's get us out of the UK titanic
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 9:47pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I voted green last time, if we had pr a lot more people would do so, i’ll prob vote labour under kier, not even sure what libs are offering these days they are so mute at the minute. Plaid a no go for me wales be totally skint if we went indy

No we wouldn't.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2023 at 9:56pm
ClapClapClapClap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 8:36am
UK economy the only major economy to shrink in 2023. IMF

Nice job.
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 8:42am
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

UK economy the only major economy to shrink in 2023. IMF

Nice job.

Ah yes, the party of business and financial stability. I give you their members' nomination for PM: Liz Truss. I love the way the next leader comes along to save the country from the actions of their own colleagues. Too many of the public seem to go happily along with this, as well. As if there is only one ruling party.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 9:00am
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

UK economy the only major economy to shrink in 2023. IMF

Nice job.

Now Lofty you should, in the interests of fairness and to stop your colleagues on this forum from falling out, give the full picture. You are spot on in identifying that 2023 will be a bad year in the main because of the totally inept governance which, of course, included the suicidal Truss regime. 

"IMF chief economist Pierre-Olivier Gourinchas told the BBC that last year, the UK had "one of the strongest growth numbers in Europe". The above is what the IMF said about our economic performance in 2022 for instance. Balance, just like a great outside half, is everything. LOLWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 10:57am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I voted green last time, if we had pr a lot more people would do so, i’ll prob vote labour under kier, not even sure what libs are offering these days they are so mute at the minute. Plaid a no go for me wales be totally skint if we went indy

No we wouldn't.
yes we would
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 11:19am
O no we wouldn't ...guess where I went yesterdayLOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 11:28am
3 years ago today we officially left Europe , I can't believe the Eutopia we have experienced since ....what's really bugging me now is that 63% want to rejoin ...why , what is wrong with these people ...don't they realise they are living the dream Cool
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 12:16pm
I know, some people are never happy - we’ve got 40 new hospitals, a thriving NHS, a thriving economy, trade deals all over the world and complete control over our borders and immigration.
LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I voted green last time, if we had pr a lot more people would do so, i’ll prob vote labour under kier, not even sure what libs are offering these days they are so mute at the minute. Plaid a no go for me wales be totally skint if we went indy

No we wouldn't.
yes we would
No we wouldn't. The statement is demonstrably false.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 January 2023 at 1:00pm
RR, you say we'd be skint. Here are some facts for you.

Wales has a £70Bn+ economy
We have a trade surplus
Our GDP per person is higher than Spain's
Our GDP per person would put us in the top quartile of nation states by that measure
We pay more in tax per person than New Zealanders do
We have 10x the population of Iceland
Wales's average wealth per household is the same as the UK average

All of the countries I mentioned are viable nation states. Whoever is telling you that an independent Wales would be skint ... is telling lies.
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