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Players who are injured more than fit

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RR1972 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 January 2022 at 12:55pm
I know every side gets injures and it’s not a dig at the players as they must be more annoyed with it than anyone But we must have a dozen or so who are injured more often than not in the last 2 or 3 years. Rob sampson ball (when he was here) blade cubby tom phillips  shingler patchell jonny w and liam spring to mind.  Not sure if anything can be done about it or is it just part and parcel of the modern game
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ladram View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 12:58pm
lezano since he's been here halfpenny.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 1:05pm
Yeah those two as well how many games lezano played?

Edited by RR1972 - 23 January 2022 at 1:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sandman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 1:12pm
Wasn’t the new performance director, Australian rugby league guy, forget his name, brought in to bridge the gap between the medics and coaches to get players availability improved? 
Only one team plays in red. (Sorry, Scarlet)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 1:16pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Yeah those two as well how many games lezano played?
2/3?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrletsfan32x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 1:35pm
I’ve said it many times, we need to start letting these players go.
Either the training is too intense and that’s how they keep getting injured or there are issues elsewhere within the performance director/team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 2:18pm
Oh boy.

Ok so let’s add…

Tomi Lewis
Corey Baldwin
Joe Roberts
Josh Macleod
Dan Davis
Ioan Nicholas

All missed loads more games than they’ve been available for in recent months…odd how it’s only older players that make the list isn’t it?

And so what’s the outcome here ?
Only recruit players that don’t get injured, or if they do let’s not renew their contracts?.


It’s a fact, backed up by a stack of evidence, that at any point in time around 25% of any playing squad is unavailable for selection due to injury.

Where Scarlets suffer specifically is that they have an injury profile heavily skewed towards their flankers right now.

Lezana joined us late due to the rugby championship ( which was known when he joined ), started 3/8 games since then. A Bordeaux prop landed on his exposed ankle last week. He still played on despite that, probably shouldn’t have done on reflection.

The bigger issue is, as we can plainly see, is that other countries have a budget to cover that 25% ( plus call ups).








Edited by Wil Chips - 23 January 2022 at 2:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

I’ve said it many times, we need to start letting these players go.
Either the training is too intense and that’s how they keep getting injured or there are issues elsewhere within the performance director/team.


And that fixes what exactly?

Is your idea to employ injury immune players?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrletsfan32x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

I’ve said it many times, we need to start letting these players go.
Either the training is too intense and that’s how they keep getting injured or there are issues elsewhere within the performance director/team.


And that fixes what exactly?

Is your idea to employ injury immune players?


Stop being sentimental in keeping injury prone players and giving new contracts to players who are either always injured or clearly has better days. Just because they are Scarlet “Legends” doesn’t mean they are replaceable.

My idea is to employ a mixture of up and coming players/proven players who don’t have a injury track record like quite a few players in our squad. Yes players get injured I completely get that but what I won’t accept is why we keep giving new contracts who are on the injury table more than they are on the field.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Oh boy.

Ok so let’s add…

Tomi Lewis
Corey Baldwin
Joe Roberts
Josh Macleod
Dan Davis
Ioan Nicholas

All missed loads more games than they’ve been available for in recent months…odd how it’s only older players that make the list isn’t it?

And so what’s the outcome here ?
Only recruit players that don’t get injured, or if they do let’s not renew their contracts?.


It’s a fact, backed up by a stack of evidence, that at any point in time around 25% of any playing squad is unavailable for selection due to injury.

Where Scarlets suffer specifically is that they have an injury profile heavily skewed towards their flankers right now.

Lezana joined us late due to the rugby championship ( which was known when he joined ), started 3/8 games since then. A Bordeaux prop landed on his exposed ankle last week. He still played on despite that, probably shouldn’t have done on reflection.

The bigger issue is, as we can plainly see, is that other countries have a budget to cover that 25% ( plus call ups).

I'm not going to comment on injuries, because I'd be dumb to do that without having evidence to compare with other pro teams with similar numbers of internationals being called up, with similar squad size for rotation etc.

What I will say is that we have a budget to rival most English Premiership clubs. I don't think we've managed that well for quite some time, for a variety of well discussed reasons.

But whatever the mitigation, we've spent more money than our Welsh competitors, and many of our English competitors, for relatively poor returns.
We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

I’ve said it many times, we need to start letting these players go.
Either the training is too intense and that’s how they keep getting injured or there are issues elsewhere within the performance director/team.


And that fixes what exactly?

Is your idea to employ injury immune players?


Stop being sentimental in keeping injury prone players and giving new contracts to players who are either always injured or clearly has better days. Just because they are Scarlet “Legends” doesn’t mean they are replaceable.

My idea is to employ a mixture of up and coming players/proven players who don’t have a injury track record like quite a few players in our squad. Yes players get injured I completely get that but what I won’t accept is why we keep giving new contracts who are on the injury table more than they are on the field.





Not sure where you see any sentiment.

So your primary recruitment and retention policy component is a players injury history.

I suppose you might scrape a match day 23 of durable journeymen..that will get a solid tuning every week.

This is a contact sport, to me there’s no such thing as no injury record.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Oh boy.

Ok so let’s add…

Tomi Lewis
Corey Baldwin
Joe Roberts
Josh Macleod
Dan Davis
Ioan Nicholas

All missed loads more games than they’ve been available for in recent months…odd how it’s only older players that make the list isn’t it?

And so what’s the outcome here ?
Only recruit players that don’t get injured, or if they do let’s not renew their contracts?.


It’s a fact, backed up by a stack of evidence, that at any point in time around 25% of any playing squad is unavailable for selection due to injury.

Where Scarlets suffer specifically is that they have an injury profile heavily skewed towards their flankers right now.

Lezana joined us late due to the rugby championship ( which was known when he joined ), started 3/8 games since then. A Bordeaux prop landed on his exposed ankle last week. He still played on despite that, probably shouldn’t have done on reflection.

The bigger issue is, as we can plainly see, is that other countries have a budget to cover that 25% ( plus call ups).


I'm not going to comment on injuries, because I'd be dumb to do that without having evidence to compare with other pro teams with similar numbers of internationals being called up, with similar squad size for rotation etc.

What I will say is that we have a budget to rival most English Premiership clubs. I don't think we've managed that well for quite some time, for a variety of well discussed reasons.

But whatever the mitigation, we've spent more money than our Welsh competitors, and many of our English competitors, for relatively poor returns.


Different point though.

Peel has had little influence on his current squad profile, and no doubt that with 4 coaches in 3 seasons the recruitment lacks a common theme.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 2:57pm
Going forward i would certainly look at a players injury record when it comes to retention/ signings. If player a is better than player b but player a misses 75 per cent of the season and player b is available 75 per cent of the season. I’d go for player b then again he could injured any time as well! But avaibility is prob the biggest asset any player can offer. I’m sure we do this already though well i’d like to think we do

Edited by RR1972 - 23 January 2022 at 2:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 3:06pm
Our players are getting injured due to the work load they  do. We  have 2/3 ball  carriers, our locks and back row are light.
These  players  are making  more tackles against bigger players than they should.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrletsfan32x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

I’ve said it many times, we need to start letting these players go.
Either the training is too intense and that’s how they keep getting injured or there are issues elsewhere within the performance director/team.


And that fixes what exactly?

Is your idea to employ injury immune players?


Stop being sentimental in keeping injury prone players and giving new contracts to players who are either always injured or clearly has better days. Just because they are Scarlet “Legends” doesn’t mean they are replaceable.

My idea is to employ a mixture of up and coming players/proven players who don’t have a injury track record like quite a few players in our squad. Yes players get injured I completely get that but what I won’t accept is why we keep giving new contracts who are on the injury table more than they are on the field.





Not sure where you see any sentiment.

So your primary recruitment and retention policy component is a players injury history.

I suppose you might scrape a match day 23 of durable journeymen..that will get a solid tuning every week.

This is a contact sport, to me there’s no such thing as no injury record.


Shingler for example, hadn't played for over a year due to injuries yet the Scarlets gave a a new 2 year contract last summer. Where is the logic in that please tell me.

A solid tuning every week? You mean what the team of players who clearly aren’t good enough are getting every week right now!!

Okay then James Davies for example since the 20-
18/19 season he has played a Grand total of 13 games for the Scarlets due to injuries (majority)/Wales commitments. To me that’s an injury record regardless if this is a contact sport or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScarletBear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 January 2022 at 3:12pm
The problem with trying to measure this is, that to be fair to the player and Scarlets you have to look at 5-6 years. What if a player that had 1.5 good years, then does an ACL and is out for a year. And what we do know is that one injury can weaken another part of the body. Thats 40% downtime. But they may not get another big injury for a few more years. Some players, and I include myself in my very average amateur time playing rugby, are just more prone to injury. One month it was my shoulder, few months later my wrist, then a hammy, then my calf. I constantly picked up something. Then there is a case for it I guess. And I think that happens already. But most would be weeded out before pro rugby I assume. We do seem more prone to injury than most clubs though.
Scarlets before Wales
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