UKIP and the rise of the right
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Topic: UKIP and the rise of the right
Posted By: dr_martinov
Subject: UKIP and the rise of the right
Date Posted: 26 May 2014 at 2:45pm
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A pretty big [presumably] protest vote saw them win the most MEP seats. I do like the irony that an anti-Europe party campaigns for them in the first place: That's like me applying to be a vicar. Anyway, I have no political allegiance to any party, yet I find the rise of UKIP pretty worrying. I'm sure only around 40% of their members are actually racists, and there is obviously an anti-Europe sentiment running around now, but geography is geograParc y Scarletsurely? There's also a similar rise of the equivalent in France, the National Front. I find it genuinely concerning and I think the main parties in both countries simply have to address this now because they're obviously getting something wrong. As always though, the problem with democracy is that every stupid bastard gets a vote.  Am after a genuine debate here with all sides of the argument - as I may well be missing something and enough people are voting for UKIP so I'd be interested to learn what attracts people to do so. I did like Stewart Lee's take on things: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/20/stewart-lee-paul-nuttall-ukip_n_5357513.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/20/stewart-lee-paul-nuttall-ukip_n_5357513.html Class.  |
Replies:
Posted By: Mr Ian
Date Posted: 26 May 2014 at 2:51pm
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In Italy won Democratic Party with his leader Matteo Renzi. He saved the entire European Socialist Party. Honestly i dont like him, for me he represents the classico and old italian style...I hoped in the air of changment with Movimento 5 Stelle with the comician Beppe Grillo and many others, differently of other european protest party, they arent racist, they would like a different place where live. Of Course this Europe must change, it's a really big truffa against citizens... I'm a little bit worried about the vote for new naziskins in Germany, or Alba Dorata in Greece and many other.. |
Posted By: JonnyLewis420
Date Posted: 26 May 2014 at 3:24pm
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god damn i love stewart lee. thanks for that. ------------- For the losers now, will be later to win. |
Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 26 May 2014 at 3:59pm
| The problem is UKIP is just Nigel Farage, who does all press stuff (I wonder why?!) and sells himself as 'the man down the home counties pub' and the rest of them are of unknown quality-or just unknown. The thought of the British public acting knee-jerk to give them the balance of power in any General Election in a year is very scary! |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 26 May 2014 at 4:58pm
If it's just one nut-job, I'm not too worried but a lot of people seem to agree with him. I wish the BBC hadn't given him all that media attention in the last 6 months or so.
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reesytheexile wrote:Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 26 May 2014 at 8:48pm
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All people want is Britain back where it was. Were we racist when Churchill was PM? By definition, probably we were as we put Britain first and fought literally on the beaches to keep it that way. We didn't want foreign rule but we have ended up with it through the EU. If anyone thinks leaving the EU is bad, check out Norway and Switzerland - they aren't doing too bad as it happens. Saying no more immigrants isn't racist, it's just honest and sensible. ------------- Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872 |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 26 May 2014 at 10:30pm
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Farage spoke today about creating spokespeople for health, education etc. Creating? Have they not got these already? And that's where UKIP fall over, once you get beyond the bigotry. You can't scream "Romanians" or spout anti-European rhetoric when you have to produce a manifesto for the NHS or, in local politics with their councillors, refuse collection policies. I wonder if those working class voters in the valleys, normally socialist leaning individuals, realise that UKIP are basically Tories? The basic idea of the original common market of European member states is sound. It's reform that's needed to slim down the bloated bureaucracy, including the ludicrous monthly troop from Brussels to Strasbourg. It's up to the mainstream parties to engage the public before next year's general election to counter UKIP and ensure that more than 33% of those eligible will vote. Posting leaflets via Royal Mail rather than true engagement with the electorate is not sufficient. |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 8:57am
I do notice you've had three thanks for this. Presumably because you mentioned Churchill and the War in the first half. I'll only respond to things in the second part to make sure I am not coming across as being in favour of the Nazi occupation of Europe (which, in all seriousness, is quite a different situation to things now). There is a definite pro and con to being in the EU - completely accept this and this is what me starting the thread was interested to find out more about (ignoring my jokes about racism - lets move on from that). I like different countries and cultures and think the rich should help the poor. So I am in favour of remaining in the EU as it's really important to make sure emerging nations get support. The point I make is Britain has always been open to immigration: I think this is something which adds to our society and culture, not detracts from it. In fact, the whole notion of "British" is built upon multiple waves of immigration, as Stewart Lee refers to in that video link I posted. The arguments along the lines of immigrants only being a drain on the system I don't think work as there are by far greater numbers of native UK who fit the same criteria. This leads into the recent trend of eastern european immigrants taking up the jobs British people simply don't want to do, or well-trained individuals coming across to take up specific roles. Basically, I struggle to see the actual problems here - of course immigration needs to be regulated carefully - but why to such an extreme level as proposed by UKIP voters and comments along the lines of "no more immigrants". And before anyone has a go at me for not understanding the threat of foreign workers to my livelihood, I work in science where a high proportion of academics and research staff are non-British. For example, I work in a lab run by two Irish professors, with Postdocs/PhD students from: UK (3), Portugal (1), Spain (2), China (1), Thailand (1), Malaysia (1), Germany (1), Sweden (1). (So 23% UK) And you know what..... I quite like that and think we have all learned a lot from each other. Isolation from Europe is not the answer for Britain in my opinion and I think we would lose a lot from doing so.
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Posted By: scarlet_rob
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 9:11am
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A couple of interesting articles on the actual results and how they are being portrayed in the media http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/05/26/ukip-s-european-election-results-are-not-as-good-as-they-see" rel="nofollow - http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/05/26/ukip-s-european-election-results-are-not-as-good-as-they-see http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/local-election-results-2014-aav.html" rel="nofollow - http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/local-election-results-2014-aav.html |
Posted By: Gary Coleman
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 9:31am
Actually I found it quite ironic to use an example of defending our country against fascists in the second world war used as an example to justify voting for the far-right wing.
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Posted By: haydn_davies
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 10:04am
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I personally think that the votes UKIP had were more of a protest against too many European laws and directives this country has to adhere to, as well as mass immigration into this country by people coming here purely to claim benefits. I may be wrong though... ------------- Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James. |
Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 10:20am
You misunderstood my reference. Britain was, by modern standards quite a racist country in those days even though it would maybe not consider itself as such. I can't see why saying ` listen guys we are full up, no more in` is considered racist. Are Australia, NZ and Canada racist as they won't let anyone in unless they want them? Racism, sectarianism, nationalism, all very similar when you cut it. ------------- Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872 |
Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 10:26am
A very good post. I think that the issue with immigration is that it hasn't been correctly controlled and hence now, some drastic action should/must be taken. I fully agree that if someone has the skills we need (a la Canada, Australia and NZ), they are welcome to come in but it should be our choice, not the EU). In all honesty, we are token members of the EU anyway after we refused to join the Euro... ------------- Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872 |
Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 11:08am
| Agree the Aussies do it right. Another lot of British people shipped over for being naughty. No problem with people coming over to work but not at the expense of our country our traditions and our culture. We are far to polite for our own good. Go anywhere else in the world and you have to abide by their ways not demand changes as it's not what your views are. Just imo ofc! |
Posted By: scarlet_rob
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 11:50am
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UKIP don't do very well in big cities. There people have evidenced immigration and seen that it works and contributes to our society. The Mail and other right wing rags likes to portray immigrants as benefit scroungers or criminals which simply isn't true. UKIP have their own take on why they don't do very well in London '...party spokesperson Suzanne Evans has uttered a sound bite Ukip would probably rather forget. Discussing the party's relatively poor performance in London on Radio 4, Evans seemed to agree with the host that they had difficulty appealing to the "educated, cultural and young."' http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-blames-london-election-performance-on-difficulty-appealing-to-the-educated-and-cultural-9423200.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-blames-london-election-performance-on-difficulty-appealing-to-the-educated-and-cultural-9423200.html
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Posted By: MikeM
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:04pm
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There's nothing wrong with immigration providing the people coming here have something to offer. What gets me are the ones that come over hoping and living on benefits because it's easier here than in their own country. Then there are the ones that are fleeing the tyrannical reign in their county only to come here and try and change our country to be like theirs. There should be certain rules that should be followed when wanting to come to this country to live. 1. speak the language. 2. Have something to offer in the way of a profession. Ie. Be a tradesman/person 3. Be prepared to integrate Not necessarily in that order but you get the idea. There's probably a few more things that we could think up but they are just the basics. ------------- Through Thick And Thin! |
Posted By: OwainLlanedi
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:05pm
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I've always found the immigration question to be purposely sensationalised by the right, and comments on this thread kind of reflect the polarised views on the issue. The Churchill WWII analogy does leave me cold, and the propaganda of the plucky Brits standing up for the free world alone totally misleading. Immigration has long been a source for social and economic good for Wales and other countries of the UK, whose positive effects outweigh any perceived sense of "taking advantage of the system". For me, the biggest problem with a Welsh UKIP vote is that isolation from Europe really could be devastating for the Welsh economy, which makes the high percentage of UKIP votes in impoverished areas of the South Wales Valleys even more shocking. The irony of a populist vote for an ex-banker who wishes to directly remove sources of investment to Wales doesn't seem to have reached certain areas of Wales. ------------- "Er gwaetha pob Dic Siôn Dafydd, Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a'i chriw, Byddwn yma hyd ddiwedd amser, A bydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn fyw!" |
Posted By: omri jones
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:10pm
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If any country has cause for concern over immigration it is Wales. So many of our rural communities have been slowly decimated by English immigrants who have so little respect for our language or culture, that they are barely distinguishable from villages in Sussex in the summer months. As for Winston Churchill, he was a ruthless imperialist who had no qualms on gassing Iraqis or other "lesser" races so let's not make a hero of him just because he had a nice turn of phrase in the English language
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Posted By: OwainLlanedi
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:10pm
Shouldn't it be a fundamental human right to speak the language you choose and to live your life by your values amongst your own community should you choose do so? Try and change our country to be like theirs? I take it this is the conspiracy theory that we'll all be living by Sharia law in 10 years time and exclusively eating Halal meat? Always enjoyed those exposes by the red tops. ------------- "Er gwaetha pob Dic Siôn Dafydd, Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a'i chriw, Byddwn yma hyd ddiwedd amser, A bydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn fyw!" |
Posted By: scarlet_rob
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:11pm
| I went to Spain on holiday and the bloody immigrants over there ruined my holiday. Who do they think they are? Going over there, lying around in the sun doing nothing, opening their pubs serving pints of beer, showing premier league football, selling fish and chips and all day full English breakfasts. They even sold their food in the supermarkets! |
Posted By: geordie scarlet
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:27pm
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Try being an immigrant yourself, by that i mean living in England and being Welsh...constant reminders of sheep, leeks and mining
Even worse supporting a team that actually has those immigrants in it...bloody Saffers, Scots, English and a New Zealander in a WELSH region...who do they think they are, coming over here, taking our regions players places..i would make them all speak Welsh before a contract is signed !!
 ------------- Toontotown challenges have now raised £101,321 for charity www.toontotown.co.uk You cant buy Scarlet culture........You have to breed Scarlet culture Proud member of Herman Tours |
Posted By: mammamammon
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:30pm
------------- mammamammon www.hopemalawiuk.com |
Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:33pm
What's the point in going abroad on a holiday if your going there for the same things we have here though? I know people do but kind of defeats the purpose of going abroad? Might aswell go down Tenby  .This is a sore subject and people will have very strong and different views. Everyone is entitled to theirs but don't try and force it onto others. Unless your a Jehovah's Witness, can't stand the whole knocking on your door forcing their religion and beliefs on others. Does my swede in! They should be able to speak either English or welsh though. Human right shite. |
Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:35pm
Didn't they have mines up north then?
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Posted By: geordie scarlet
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 12:43pm
 ....one of my responses ! ------------- Toontotown challenges have now raised £101,321 for charity www.toontotown.co.uk You cant buy Scarlet culture........You have to breed Scarlet culture Proud member of Herman Tours |
Posted By: Gary Coleman
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 1:09pm
.....not to metion all them blydi foreigners that live there.
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Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 1:35pm
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I'm not worried, it's a protest vote with only 36% of the voters voting. listened to a bbc interview where people were asked if they would vote UKIP at a general election and they responded probably not. The issue is though there are no credible alternatives. we have 3 parties which are morphed into the same beast. people are just pissed with all these eton toffs running the country and want some core values brought back... Personally I wouldn't vote UKIP even though when I took a test to see who I should vote for the majority of my answers matched UKIP by 78%, then again it matched the tories as well by the same margin (says a lot really). The tories want a strong UKIP and for UKIP to win seats in the GE as long as it isn't at their expense because when we get another hung parliament next year the Cons will work better in bed with UKIP than they have with the libs.
------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: M.M.
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 1:54pm
The thought of Cameron & Farage in bed together has put me right off my dinner. |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 1:57pm
On the plus side, they wouldn't be able to produce [genetic] offspring together. Well, not easily, in any case.
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Posted By: PearlJam
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:04pm
Yeah, thing is the number of people coming over here for that purpose is statistically negligible. There are probably a few thousand in a country of 80million people. And how does that factor alone actually affect the quality of life of people and so disenfranchise them to vote for parties like UKIP whose only policy that people know about is to get out of the EU? That's where that argument falls away. They also want to privatise the NHS; would UKIP have sustained their vote on that? Can't see it. I'll be blunt: I think people throwing an anti-EU vote out there (and this is for the UK, Spain and Greece have their own reasoning - austerity etc.) is because of the uncontrolled immigration from outside of the EU. I think this was an anti-Islam vote as much as anything. The Basildon bloke on Radio 4 last week said he voted UKIP because of the amount of Muslims in the country. Sorry, that's British policy - not anything to do with Europe or the EU. The creation of the EU has been a beacon for peace and prosperity, stability and freedom and we should be proud of that, not seeking to drown it because of a fear of Johnny Foreigner. ------------- If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose. |
Posted By: OwainLlanedi
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:27pm
How little do I want to live in a country run by you Sosban FACH. The irony of you saying they should be able to speak the language and you getting your own username wrong does make me laugh. Pedantic, I know, but funny. ------------- "Er gwaetha pob Dic Siôn Dafydd, Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a'i chriw, Byddwn yma hyd ddiwedd amser, A bydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn fyw!" |
Posted By: omri jones
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:49pm
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I certainly didn't vote for UKIP who are just a rightwing splinter group from the Tories, a one man band, who is a little more witty , honest/tactless than the usual politician. But I did vote for No2-EU which is a leftwing group. My main reason for deserting Plaid, the pro-EU party I normally vote for, is to do with the meddling of the EU in Ukraine and elsewhere way beyond its traditional boundaries and the imposition of sanctions against Russia, which has reacted with great restraint, while Russian speakers and anti-fascists have been burned alive, massacred and are now being attacked with heavy armour, helicopters and jet bombers. If the idea is to provoke a war with Russia then they are going about it the right way and there will come a time when Putin is going to have to move in to protect SE Ukraine. The EU politicians are rapidly getting us involved in more and more foreign adventures at the behest of their US masters. The US and several EU countries have already been overtly involved against Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, and succeeded in changing regimes and totally destroying those countries without ever being able to control them. However Russia is not a third world country with obsolete weapons. It has a nuclear capability.
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Posted By: scarletabroad
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:55pm
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My reason for voting UKIP.....in the main protest however I would rather they have the ammuntiion to attack Europe from within. They will I think never have sufficient votes or policies to wing a general election.
Why did I vote, I do believe in continuing with buisness links with Europe which is what basically the Common Market was supposed to about.
However what I strongly believe should be completely out of a pen pushers hand in Brussels are
1. Control over the Judiciary and Law making in our country
2. Control over basic decision making by our Government with European dictat
3. Human rights Act. The basics of it are right and true the right to life, the right to not be tortured etc, but when it is used to award multiple murders compensation for being upset in jail you have to question where does the morale compas point
4. Immigration irrelevant of your feelings, beliefs it should be our Goverments decision on who, how many and when we accept. If we want to adopt an entry system similar to Australia say based on trades and skils to the benfit of our country then we should be able to as opposed to be dictated to by Brussels. Similarly if we want a free for all then that should be our choice.
The european juggernaut has taken to many sorry no been given to many of the basic rights of governance to the point that parlimant is almost worthless.
That is whu I and probably many others are diisillusioned. Revert back to trade links, restore our rights of governance before the disinfranchised actually put them in control of coucils throughout the land
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Posted By: Gary Coleman
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 2:57pm
somehow, I just knew you would. |
Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 3:25pm
You again, time of the month again is it? Either English or welsh. Did I say I can speak welsh? No and that's the majority of Welsh people due to being bummed over by another country. Carry on with your views and I mine. Don't bother having a pop though mate. |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 3:53pm
| UKIP bunch of clowns, no more no less |
Posted By: OwainLlanedi
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 4:12pm
A rare moment of 100% agreement between the two of us. Lets celebrate  ------------- "Er gwaetha pob Dic Siôn Dafydd, Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a'i chriw, Byddwn yma hyd ddiwedd amser, A bydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn fyw!" |
Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 4:12pm
but you can't just say that anymore.... ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 4:16pm
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If, in a referendum, there was a vote for the UK to stay in Europe (and I'm sure we would vote that way - just about), that's game-over for UKIP. Call their bluff, I say. |
Posted By: OwainLlanedi
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 4:16pm
A rise in their electoral mandate doesn't validate their ideology for all. ------------- "Er gwaetha pob Dic Siôn Dafydd, Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a'i chriw, Byddwn yma hyd ddiwedd amser, A bydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn fyw!" |
Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 4:22pm
no it doesn't but when over £4m vote for them then they have to be taken seriously. ------------- They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett |
Posted By: redeyes
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 5:16pm
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We'll see how popular they are when the general election comes round next year. I don't think they will win a seat. ------------- The stadium may change, but the dream will remain the same! |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 6:10pm
Agree. Would be interesting to do this as a quick poll.... and we know how UKIP feel about polls.
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Posted By: Sosban bach
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 7:26pm
Haha
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Posted By: scarlet_rob
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 7:35pm
They'll target certain seats and they may well be able to get Farage in. We'll see how they go in the by-election coming up soon. Worse case scenario would be they pick up five to ten seats and are able to prop up a minority conservative government in coalition. I think i'd leave the country and go and live in Poland if this happens.
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Posted By: scarlet_rob
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 7:36pm
Just because they had people vote for them doesn't mean they aren't still a bunch of clowns.
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Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 7:45pm
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BBC Wales Today just interviewed a stall holder in Pontypool market who voted UKIP as he felt that Farage could "sort out Wales financial problems" (paraphrased by me) Ignoring the fact that UKIP couldn't give a stuff about the Welsh as they're not English, Pontypool market has been refurbished using EU money. This is money that plainly isn't available from Cardiff Bay due to the paltry settlement we get from Westminster, resulting in teachers and health workers being made redundant (just stop and think about that for a minute. Are our hospitals becoming less busy? Do we really require fewer teachers?). So there'd never be money to fund a market, let alone Llanelly House, super fast broadband and road improvements. In fact, the EU "donates" £1.9bn to Wales - far more than we put in. It's been calculated that every Welsh person gets £40 more each back from EU funding than they put in. Again, I agree the EU needs urgent reform, but Welsh UKIP voters need to be careful not to bite the hand that feeds. It's not all about Eastern Europeans (who mainly pay taxes like everyone else. Daily Mail hysteria about claiming benefits for their tens of kids back home in Warsaw - what about those Welsh people too lazy to get off their arses?). As for repatriation of immigrants, will the ex-pats in Malaga and other Spanish resorts come home to Blighty? What about those who have emigrated to Australia and other points on the world compass? |
Posted By: bazlewis
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 7:50pm
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There are several questions that need answering before people decide what is important, of course you don't want a foreign person living in town. But never mind about finding a Hospital or a school for your children or grand children. Lets hope your house prices go up that will cover your private health bills. ------------- To be a Scarlet is as good as it gets |
Posted By: MikeM
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 9:10pm
I'm not saying they should abandon their language. All I'm saying is that they should learn the language. It helps them to get on better in the community that's all. They should integrate in the community and become part of it. Did I mention Sharia, Muslims and Halal. No I didn't so please don't assume that is what I mean but if any immigrant wants to live in this country they should live by our laws and rules. The problem is that when a lot of people from the same country come to live here they tend to collect together in the same area therefore creating their own little community. ------------- Through Thick And Thin! |
Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 27 May 2014 at 9:31pm
That's human nature: ex-pats tend also to befriend ex-pats and there are mini colonies of British ex-pats in numerous places, Spain, France, Patagonia etc. It's an immediate connection and so easier to make friends. Another thing is that these isolated little communities can actually be created due to hostility, even racism, from the indigenous people. This is what happened with some Indian and Pakistani communities in Britain a while ago, as I understand things. For it to become "us and them" can be the fault of both "us" and "them" is my point. I do agree with adhering to local laws of course, unless if in Saudi Arabia, and attempts be made to learn the local language, but care is needed over how this is done as I do not agree with forcing integration. There's a wide variety of ways to live and we can co-exist. If I went to live somewhere and they forced me to adopt to their culture (e.g. if I went to the deep south in the US and I had to marry my cousin and start preachin' Jesus) then that would piss me off. Integration also takes time and learning a new language isn't easy for some: it can often take until the next generation before this occurs - and, even then, things evolve and it's not fixed point of reference. Most British kids all sound like sooooo totally American now I'm all like "wow, are we like, even like British any more?"
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Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 2:12am
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No real range of policies as such, some un-savoury fringes to their ideology, but the party cannot be dismissed. They may only get a seat or two in a General Election, but will have a significant say in many constituencies, so in that respect they will have a notable influence on the future political landscape. I see some good in this , no question that the main parties didn't see this recent set of results coming and were complacent as a consequence...they will need to urgently review their policies...politicians obliged to sharpen their pencils is never a bad thing. |
Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 8:20am
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Their rise could be related to a new survey that highlights the rising tide of prejudice across Britain. Interestingly its not joe blog manual worker but the educated professionals which have the largest slice. On another note 5 million children are facing poverty in this Country with all these wonderful reforms. ------------- In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty" "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 9:13am
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What I will concede is that the subject of immigration should have been discussed in an adult fashion when it was obvious that it was a concern to many (whichever side of the argument is correct). As it was brushed under the carpet, we've seen the rise of extreme views becoming accepted. |
Posted By: geordie scarlet
Date Posted: 28 May 2014 at 10:51am
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Unfortunately society dictates we only focus on the bad things, yes there are gangs of all races who do not abide by our laws , abuse the benefit system, but on the flip side there are members of all races who take on menial jobs, work hard and if out of work, are actively seeking to work - we all know which is more news worthy ! As for abusing a system, the elite (use that word lightly) who abuse the taxation system, are in my view just as bad as the one,s abusing the benefits system
Immigration is an issue , benefit tourism in my view mainly, but so are many other things and this country would be a whole lot better off, if the whole system was revamped ...trouble is who would you have to sort it out. I look at all the parties and it,s more a question of who you don,t want elected, rather than who you want elected ------------- Toontotown challenges have now raised £101,321 for charity www.toontotown.co.uk You cant buy Scarlet culture........You have to breed Scarlet culture Proud member of Herman Tours |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 7:27am
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Good article in today's Times pointing out that 73% of those who voted didn't put their cross next to UKIP. When you consider that only a third of those eligible actually voted, that means that just 9% of the UK electorate gave their vote to UKIP. Hardly an earth shattering demonstration of a lurch towards them. Even fewer voted for them in the council elections where 17% voted UKIP or under 6% of those eligible. When you think that the turnout at the last general election was 65% (double that of the European), many of the 91% of the electorate who didn't vote for UKIP will return to the polling booth. |
Posted By: supertaf
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 11:03am
2 responses to a good post Owain - Britain fought to stay British not just to defeat the Nazis. We were fighting against being controlled by another country - see any similarities to now? If you had lived in those days (which I didn't either), you would have seen that Britain was fairly racist in fact and anyone non British was treated like a second class citizen whether we admit it of not. Second point, while you make a good point about UKIP and the Welsh economy, are you therefore saying that no one who voted for UKIP has the intelligence to consider your points or are they just blindly following a dream? ------------- Scarlets - Suppliers of fine rugby since 1872 |
Posted By: Abbey
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 12:20pm
The problem with Britain fighting to stay British is pertinent but out of context. Britain will wither if it were to try and stand alone on the workd's stage unless it really did become like Switzerland and live off banking. Seeing that the country, and indeed the entire world, has almost collapsed after a crisis caused by high risk banking (remember, we're seeing mortgages being offered in London at x17 people's salaries), I'm not sure if it is stable to stake the whole country's future on the banks in today's world. Someone else mentioned Norway - fine, but the voters of the UK have shown time and again that they will vote for any party that offers low taxation, so I can't see anyone agreeing to a Scandinavian high taxation lifestyle. European Union is a fine idea if it develops along economic lines. The reason I said that the "keep Britain British" rhetoric was out of context is that it should be used to fight a federal Europe. The reason I find that idea worrying is that the proponents of this idea (mainly the French and German politicians) do so whilst flying to places like China in the name of Germany and France and not Europe. Angela Merkel is hardly likely to go to Beijing and cut deals for Slovakian workers before those in the heartlands of industrial Germany. And as for the priorities of the French government when it comes to farming........ Better to stay and fight for a less bloated Europe where we trade as one voice but have our separate parliaments and identity. Surely the UK model of devolved government is better than a huge monolith in Brussels? We have to realise that the world in 1939-45 is a far cry from the globalisation of today - it simply didn't exist back then and it's pointless harking back to it. I'd rather engage with the argument, which is the problem with UKIP as they their attendance rates in the European Parliament is pathetic. |
Posted By: LLANDRE
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 5:44pm
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Nice to see the people of Carmarthenshire sticking to there guns with Plaid being the votes within the county. Carmarthen has never been swayed by the general trends of so many. Carmarthen gave us Gwynfor Evans as there first MP and also it was Carmarthen that gave us the Assembly. If Dafydd Wigley hadnt been shafted i suspect they might have gained a lot more across the board. ------------- West is Best (Fin gwybod) |
Posted By: OwainLlanedi
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 10:50pm
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The UKIP representative on the Question Time panel has represented the vacuous and empty drivel this party stands for within 2 minutes. Really scary that this rabble has garnered any support. ------------- "Er gwaetha pob Dic Siôn Dafydd, Er gwaetha 'rhen Fagi a'i chriw, Byddwn yma hyd ddiwedd amser, A bydd yr iaith Gymraeg yn fyw!" |
Posted By: BlackwoodScarlet
Date Posted: 29 May 2014 at 11:24pm
Never mind UkIP on question time, they have that horrible thug Joey Barton on there. ------------- If it bleeds we can can kill it |
Posted By: LLANDRE
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 7:42am
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Lots of the immigrants are doing jobs that the people of this country are not prepared to do. . ------------- West is Best (Fin gwybod) |
Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 11:00am
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Look at the choices people had vote for Labour Party who bankrupted the country and joked about it letter left on treasury desk saying good luck all money gone and who had a prime minister who misslead parliament though I call it lying and I responsible for us entering an illegal war. A labour paryy who bave ruined the NHS in Wales. The conservatives who represent about 10 % of the population and look after their own. The liberal democrats who don't know what they stand for and are currently the puppets of the Tories. Look at all the scandals involving our politicians I it no wonder then that when somebody comes along with a populist agenda then people will sit up and take notice. As for the people of Carmarthen being responsible for us having the Welsh assembly then that is hardly anything to be proud of as the waste of public money by the assembly is bordering on the criminal. ------------- She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood. |
Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 11:23am
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------------- She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood. |
Posted By: redeyes
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 11:32am
I would suggest it's more of a protest vote against the rest rather than support for UKIP. The acid test will be the general election next year, don't bet on them having more than two or three seats in parliament. Saying that, I really hope of of the clowns knock on my door!!! ------------- The stadium may change, but the dream will remain the same! |
Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 30 May 2014 at 2:58pm
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