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Scott Fardy

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Category: RUGBY
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URL: https://www.scarletfever.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=44468
Printed Date: 23 April 2021 at 7:20pm
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Topic: Scott Fardy
Posted By: knutsfordlion
Subject: Scott Fardy
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 5:25pm
I am sure he is enjoying his hundreds of thousands Euros which we just cannot afford.
 
 


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Page the oracle



Replies:
Posted By: Dafen Boy
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 5:29pm
Ironic that their best player was not Irish


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 6:26pm
Best player on the field by a country mile today.


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 6:28pm
Ironic that our best players were Irish and Scottish 😁

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Keep the faith


Posted By: TA2001
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 6:42pm
Our best player of the season is Irish, arguably one of if not our best backs is from New Zealand. Our marquee signings for next season are all not welsh. Can’t put any hate on Fardy we were well beaten in every aspect today. That’s life unfortunately


Posted By: mr geraint
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 6:46pm
We can only be jealous of Leinster’s wealth.


Posted By: Dafen Boy
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by mr geraint mr geraint wrote:

We can only be jealous of Leinster’s wealth.

That was my point..our team looked jaded today, have played an awful lot.


Posted By: M.M.
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by mr geraint mr geraint wrote:

We can only be jealous of Leinster’s wealth.

That''s a "Governance" issue.  
You would hope that WRU would be mindful of what is actually needed to win this competition.


Posted By: Pembreyexile
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by M.M. M.M. wrote:

Originally posted by mr geraint mr geraint wrote:

We can only be jealous of Leinster’s wealth.


That''s a "Governance" issue.  
You would hope that WRU would be mindful of what is actually needed to win this competition.

Exactly


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 21 April 2018 at 11:17pm
No hope of that ever happening. Even without roger Lewis in charge, they seem hell bent on continueing to reduce their deficits at the expense of funding the regional game to a level that would put them on a level playing field. They would rather the benefactors finance the regions but take the credit when the regions punch above their weight and win some silverware, like we did last season.
It would be interesting to know exactly how much money they are ploughing into the Dragons.


Posted By: SCL
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 5:30am
Leinster average just under 18,000 at home in the Pro14 this season. We average 9000. Our ground is not big enough to match theirs (maybe Munster is a better model plus they wear red), but it does mean we've got about 5500 empty seats at each home Pro14 game on average. At a tenner a pop that's GBP55k per match (plus a few pints, programmes and hotdogs). Over a season that's GBP605k plus beer, programmes, hotdogs.

There's Scott Fardy paid for. Hell, it's enough to get Pocock or Hooper or Sam Cain thinking I would imagine.

It's all well and good to point the finger at the WRU for the way it distributes funds, but they're filling their ground and wouldn't they be in their rights to come back and say fill your empty seats?

Marketing. Wayne Pivac is great with people and a great ambassador for the club. He's bought into the club's ethos completely. Our team are doing their bit - couldn't do any more at the moment to put bums on seats. We put in temporary stands for the QF, bought most of La Rochelle's tickets back and filled PYS to the rafters. So the people are there.

It's the marketing department's job to work out how to get them. The product is there already.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 7:42am
The roger lewis debacle put regional rugby back 5 to 10 years. The mad rush to clear all wru debts in 10 years was bizarre with interest and borrowing rates rat record lows ..All it did was lose us loads of welsh and overseas stars, which in turn lost the crowds, the performances, results, prize money sponsorship money and less clout for tv deals. it also hurt confidence and welsh performances too
most things are better orchestrated now and davies has replaced lewis as boss...ndc's....ndc sponsors, debts at record lows at wru, crowds up at scarlets to 10,000 average ....winning the league, making european semis, cardiff in cup final and making champions cup....the growth of rgc is good long term too

I just hope we can keep on the upward trajectory now. I do believe the wru need to plough more into the academies and coaching across the nation. The dearth of welsh coaches at top level is alarming ...we need to get playing numbers up too. There are lots of key positions where theres simply not enough players coming through...number 8 is top of the list has been for year, not many tight heads either. a plethora of hookers, opensides but the number of quality wingers has grown markedly.

regional u23s sides may help next season and beyond....wales a? is it happenning? welsh prem isnt good enough hasnt been for years, many potential stars are getting lost in that league, the u23 sides may catch them. the factory belt of quality is the real key to a successful future


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SCL
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 8:58am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The roger lewis debacle put regional rugby back 5 to 10 years. The mad rush to clear all wru debts in 10 years was bizarre with interest and borrowing rates rat record lows .

This is a fair point (and I'm not arguing for a moment that Roger Lewis was a plonker Smile).

If interest rates are 1% and forecasts holding it at that you have to work on the basis that using someone else's money wisely will return more than the 1% you owe on it if you're smart and business is good. And we won 4 championships and 3 Grand Slams between 2005-2013 with something of a golden generation. There's still an opportunity to pay down more, but use some to make more for you.

I'm in Australia and the a**e didn't fall out of everything as much as it did there (because our big 4 banks were powerful, government protected scoundrels and vagabonds who charged fees for no service and fees to dead people, as is now being revealed). But even at 4% plenty chose to borrow more than they needed and put the rest to work, many very successfully.

Even after yesterday's result, Scarlets' stocks are high. The brand of rugby is as entertaining as anybody is playing anywhere. The bulk of the squad is home grown and local and we're a fiercely partisan tribe. How do we get more through the gates? What is the marketing strategy? Hope it's not just 'hope we win Saturday' lol.


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 9:25am
We won’t get many more through the gates. We are already punching way above our weight given the amount of people in South Wales divided by 4, and the fact we’re at the poorest, most sparsely populated end of the M4
Dublin has nearly 600,000 people to attract, and 1.8 million in the “metropolitan area” and 2.5 million in the province.

Please think about that before suggesting we could get 14000 in every week. That’s before you think about relative earnings FFS

Our 8000 is equivalent to 40000 in Leinster


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We're still still here!


Posted By: Matthew Cardey
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 9:35am
They have way over 10k season ticket holders


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 10:54am
Originally posted by SCL SCL wrote:

Leinster average just under 18,000 at home in the Pro14 this season. We average 9000. Our ground is not big enough to match theirs (maybe Munster is a better model plus they wear red), but it does mean we've got about 5500 empty seats at each home Pro14 game on average. At a tenner a pop that's GBP55k per match (plus a few pints, programmes and hotdogs). Over a season that's GBP605k plus beer, programmes, hotdogs.

There's Scott Fardy paid for. Hell, it's enough to get Pocock or Hooper or Sam Cain thinking I would imagine.

It's all well and good to point the finger at the WRU for the way it distributes funds, but they're filling their ground and wouldn't they be in their rights to come back and say fill your empty seats?

Marketing. Wayne Pivac is great with people and a great ambassador for the club. He's bought into the club's ethos completely. Our team are doing their bit - couldn't do any more at the moment to put bums on seats. We put in temporary stands for the QF, bought most of La Rochelle's tickets back and filled PYS to the rafters. So the people are there.

It's the marketing department's job to work out how to get them. The product is there already.
Sorry to bang on, but this post takes absolutely no account of the relative population density and GDP. 

It's nonsensical to suggest we could be regularly getting even 12k crowds in Llanelli. 

It's like asking why there are no branches of John Lewis in West Wales


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We're still still here!


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 11:12am
The average crowd attendance misses the point anyway. Even if we got £12k every week it would barely make a dent in terms of being able to match the Leinster squad strength and depth.

Leinster are funded better, and are able to attract the likes of Fardy in the first place. We aren't. We attract the riskier signings like Ball, McNichol, Parkes etc.

Getting to the semi final was a huge achievement for a club like us, who, as Nigel Short said last year had the 7th largest budget in the pro12.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 12:44pm
Leinster also plug well in to the traditional private school system( Catholic understandably) in Dublin and area who play rugby and these are a good conveyer belt of quality coming through. The wealth of this structure and its integration into "Irishness" is very effective ( ignoring the money in this system which Wales and certainly Llanelli doesn't possess). I am not knocking it but certainly envious of it. We punch HUGELY above our weight in professional rugby.

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"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook


Posted By: SCL
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 1:22pm
Ok. So there's a whole lot of why nots.

1) Dublin has 600k people. Yep. But county Limerick has 195k and Carmarthenshire has 185k. But Thomond Park holds 26,000 people and quite often, when Munster use it, they fill it. Is that because people in SW Ireland like rugby more than people in SW Wales? We cannot admit to that... Munster average 13,500 home attendance this season. (Which at the nominal GBP10 per head is half a million a season in revenue)

2) Llanelli and Swansea are 12 miles apart. Limerick's version is Cork and it is 60 miles away.

3) Yes, we are punching above our weight. But why should we settle for that when both ends of our stadium are empty for most games and some people in Loughor and Gorseinon go to watch the ashtrays? Do we not offer a better quality of player/game/entertainment? Of course we do!

I'm not pointing any fingers at people on this forum. Most of your bums are on seats at kick off time. If mine wasn't 12,000 miles away it would be too. Nor am I saying we're doing badly. But are we really at saturation point? There are 462k (according to census) people in metropolitan Swansea and the Ospreys get smaller crowds than we do. They're all less than 45 mins  from PYS and 455k of them are wise enough to not be watching the Ospreys every week. What % of them are in front of a screen when Wales are playing? Because they're all rugby fans and fair game. We can show them a great atmosphere, great rugby and they can sing some songs with us. 1% of them and we're full.

Are we satisfied to just read those stats posted the other day about us ranking 5th for population vs attendance and pat ourselves on the back, or do we want to address the 5,500 seats that are there and empty when our boys are playing Champagne rugby every fortnight?

Presumably the Scarlets have a marketing team/strategy. I'm just interested in what they are doing to get some of those 5500 seats filled to earn us more money/increase they wage pool/bring in big ticket players.

As I've said, at the moment the coach and players couldn't be doing much more and that is their side of the marketing. Now is exactly the time to be recruiting lifelong supporters, while the product is so good.

When I was a boy, my old man gave me the option of Swans v Cardiff at the Vetch or Scarlets v Quins at Stradey. We turned left out of Gower and I watched us hammer the Londoners and soccer was no longer a part of my weekend.

Now is precisely the time to be recruiting fans for life. Because one day we're going to be losing to Newport and its going to be harder to recruit them then. And maybe, like Munster have in the past, we can then look at the likes of Christian Cullen, Doug Howlett and Jean de Villiers.

The seats are there for them/


Posted By: ynysddurfc
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 1:41pm
Talking to a number of Leinster supporters last night. Their basic season ticket is 300 euros. When you combine numbers and prices that is a hefty uplift to overall budget


Posted By: sgsmorgan
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by SCL SCL wrote:

Ok. So there's a whole lot of why nots.

1) Dublin has 600k people. Yep. But county Limerick has 195k and Carmarthenshire has 185k. But Thomond Park holds 26,000 people and quite often, when Munster use it, they fill it. Is that because people in SW Ireland like rugby more than people in SW Wales? We cannot admit to that... Munster average 13,500 home attendance this season. (Which at the nominal GBP10 per head is half a million a season in revenue)

2) Llanelli and Swansea are 12 miles apart. Limerick's version is Cork and it is 60 miles away.

3) Yes, we are punching above our weight. But why should we settle for that when both ends of our stadium are empty for most games and some people in Loughor and Gorseinon go to watch the ashtrays? Do we not offer a better quality of player/game/entertainment? Of course we do!

I'm not pointing any fingers at people on this forum. Most of your bums are on seats at kick off time. If mine wasn't 12,000 miles away it would be too. Nor am I saying we're doing badly. But are we really at saturation point? There are 462k (according to census) people in metropolitan Swansea and the Ospreys get smaller crowds than we do. They're all less than 45 mins  from PYS and 455k of them are wise enough to not be watching the Ospreys every week. What % of them are in front of a screen when Wales are playing? Because they're all rugby fans and fair game. We can show them a great atmosphere, great rugby and they can sing some songs with us. 1% of them and we're full.

Are we satisfied to just read those stats posted the other day about us ranking 5th for population vs attendance and pat ourselves on the back, or do we want to address the 5,500 seats that are there and empty when our boys are playing Champagne rugby every fortnight?

Presumably the Scarlets have a marketing team/strategy. I'm just interested in what they are doing to get some of those 5500 seats filled to earn us more money/increase they wage pool/bring in big ticket players.

As I've said, at the moment the coach and players couldn't be doing much more and that is their side of the marketing. Now is exactly the time to be recruiting lifelong supporters, while the product is so good.

When I was a boy, my old man gave me the option of Swans v Cardiff at the Vetch or Scarlets v Quins at Stradey. We turned left out of Gower and I watched us hammer the Londoners and soccer was no longer a part of my weekend.

Now is precisely the time to be recruiting fans for life. Because one day we're going to be losing to Newport and its going to be harder to recruit them then. And maybe, like Munster have in the past, we can then look at the likes of Christian Cullen, Doug Howlett and Jean de Villiers.

The seats are there for them/


Haven't got time in detail to go through this post and don't want to cause a "flame war" but right at the start of this post is the first inaccuracy..... Munster is about a lot more than County Limerick. You forget that Munster is  province and not a County therefore you have to include the populations of Counties Cork, Kerry (and others as well). Munster also split their matches between Thomond Park in Limerick and Musgrave Park in Cork.

Doesn't mater how you look at it... the Irish are massively better funded than we are and have much bigger catchment areas to call upon.

I would argue that of ALL the world rugby populations, the Irish and the IRFU handled professionalism better than anyone else. They realised at the outset that the likes of Cork Con, Blackrock, Sundays Well etc would get creamed up against the likes of Llanelli, Swansea etc so they went to support the (then) moribund Inter Pro system and made that Professional.

Brilliant but logical and also one that the IRFU control.

Can't but envy them and now they are reaping the dividends with resources that because we're still in the dark ages and fiercely tribal can only look on with green eyed jealousy.

The likes of Moffat and Lewis have set Welsh Regional and Club Rugby back years.

Also the mentality of the local boys have crucified us as well...anyone who in their blind eyes would think that the likes of Merthyr, Ebbw Vale and Maesteg could even hope to compete with the more professional outfits of today still there will always be some dick out there with more money than sense who wants to fund a wet dream and screw us all up in the process.


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 3:35pm
Well said. The Irish provinces are far better run and financed than the welsh regions, due to them going down the regional approach much earlier than us, and buying into the concept. They are also well supported financial by the IRU and regional/national banking institutions.
The best we can hope for is that we continue to play an attractive style of play, be successful on the field and qualify for the knockout stages of the european cup again, and use that exposure to encourage fans from rival regions to join the Scarlet revolution and to hopefully persuade a major investor onboard. Let’s face it, an investment in us would be a drop in the ocean to some large companies, and would represent a lot more exposure for their investment, when compared to sponsoring maybe a championship football team.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 22 April 2018 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by sgsmorgan sgsmorgan wrote:

You forget that Munster is  province and not a County therefore you have to include the populations of Counties Cork, Kerry (and others as well). Munster also split their matches between Thomond Park in Limerick and Musgrave Park in Cork.



Munster are also millions of Euros in debt. Due to the IRFU bankrolling their stadium rennovation. They failed to make the agreed repayments on their loans to the IRFU and had to re-negotiate.

That's a luxury not afforded to many.


Posted By: Pentigili
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 12:17am
Daw dydd y bydd mawr y rhai bychain!!!


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 9:16am
Sensible points being made about the professionalism of the IRFU compared with the WRU. Surely the WRU income has to be on a par at least with the IRFU. Our National Stadium holds 20K + more for a start. The IRFU are prepared to make the tough calls when it comes to contracts & this is bought into by their coach. 

To suggest that Leinster have used their better finances to buy in foreign stars is missing the point a bit. Only two players in their 23 on Saturday were not qualified to play for Ireland compared with four in our team. They have used their money wisely to nurture their huge resource of young talent which allows them to limit the appearances of their top players who arrive at big games fresh and ready to go. Compare this with the English system where their top guys like Itoje & Farrell are flogged.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 9:27am
It's clearly high time that the WRU financed the regions better, to allow them to compete with the Irish... they must make a fortune from the internationals every year, and debt repayment could easily be spread over a longer period, especially with interest rates remaining very low.

As for the future - Ireland has a far better academy/pathway system for young players than what we have in Wales. Pivac said recently that he was surprised by the gap in playing standards between the four regions, and the levels below. Perhaps the new structures next season will prove to be a step in the right direction - let's hope so.


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: thommo
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 9:30am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Sensible points being made about the professionalism of the IRFU compared with the WRU. Surely the WRU income has to be on a par at least with the IRFU. Our National Stadium holds 20K + more for a start. The IRFU are prepared to make the tough calls when it comes to contracts & this is bought into by their coach. 

To suggest that Leinster have used their better finances to buy in foreign stars is missing the point a bit. Only two players in their 23 on Saturday were not qualified to play for Ireland compared with four in our team. They have used their money wisely to nurture their huge resource of young talent which allows them to limit the appearances of their top players who arrive at big games fresh and ready to go. Compare this with the English system where their top guys like Itoje & Farrell are flogged.

I think the point being made is the huge disparity that Dublin has when compared to Llanelli, both socially and financially. Player base is hugely different, fee paying schools in Dublin have the best of training facilities and have superb coaching systems on place. Their academy is far superior it anything in Wales. So is it an even playing field when their player budget dwarves ours?
The gulf is getting wider and wider between the teams as the likes of Leinster and Racing have sponsorship deals we can only dream of. We are not comparing the IRFU and the WRU. A solution could be a salary cap as they have in rugby league.
Realistically we cannot compare with the likes of leinster off the pitch from grassroots to the top. So do world rugby get involved to avoid financial dominance dominating the game?


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 9:43am
Originally posted by thommo thommo wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Sensible points being made about the professionalism of the IRFU compared with the WRU. Surely the WRU income has to be on a par at least with the IRFU. Our National Stadium holds 20K + more for a start. The IRFU are prepared to make the tough calls when it comes to contracts & this is bought into by their coach. 

To suggest that Leinster have used their better finances to buy in foreign stars is missing the point a bit. Only two players in their 23 on Saturday were not qualified to play for Ireland compared with four in our team. They have used their money wisely to nurture their huge resource of young talent which allows them to limit the appearances of their top players who arrive at big games fresh and ready to go. Compare this with the English system where their top guys like Itoje & Farrell are flogged.

I think the point being made is the huge disparity that Dublin has when compared to Llanelli, both socially and financially. Player base is hugely different, fee paying schools in Dublin have the best of training facilities and have superb coaching systems on place. Their academy is far superior it anything in Wales. So is it an even playing field when their player budget dwarves ours?
The gulf is getting wider and wider between the teams as the likes of Leinster and Racing have sponsorship deals we can only dream of. We are not comparing the IRFU and the WRU. A solution could be a salary cap as they have in rugby league.
Realistically we cannot compare with the likes of leinster off the pitch from grassroots to the top. So do world rugby get involved to avoid financial dominance dominating the game?

All fair points Thommo. Aber's point about the WRU funding our regions better is something which should have been done for years. Investment has been needed in our regional academies so that we do not lose so many of our promising young players. Why is it, for instance, that exciting Welsh talent is attracted over the bridge to fee paying education on scholarships - Hartbury College for one. Could the WRU have not developed a state of the art academy linked to a top fee paying school in Wales? With regard to World Rugby getting involved I just cannot see that happening. 

Clearly the Irish have got their system right and it is showing both at Regional level and test level. Players are not overworked and players like Henshaw on Saturday can come back in and play 80 full on minutes as if he had never been away. Compare that with how long it is taking us to get Jake back on the field. 


Posted By: Micro Duck
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 10:01am


I don't think the comparison to Ireland works.

Irish provinces are like small nations. Ulster actually is a nation!

Just take a look at the provincial map of Ireland:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Ireland" rel="nofollow - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Ireland

Geographically, all four of the Welsh regions would fit into one Irish province.

There will never be a day when our academies will produce as many players as Leinster.

It doesn't matter. We work with what we have, and we punch above our weight.



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ARGRAFFIADUR - LLANELLI AND WALES INSPIRED MERCH

[URL=https://llanelli.teemill.com//URL]


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 10:13am
The WRU funds the regions just over £19m a year between 4. That figure includes the £10m competition moneys owed to us though and alot of the rest is compensation money for player release.

The IRFU funds the pro game in Ireland to the tune of £38m. It's unclear if competition money is included in that (it probably is). Their finances are more murkier and less transparent. Leinster's player wage bill is thought to be around £7m, while ours is around £5.5m I think.


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 10:44am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

The WRU funds the regions just over £19m a year between 4. That figure includes the £10m competition moneys owed to us though and alot of the rest is compensation money for player release.

The IRFU funds the pro game in Ireland to the tune of £38m. It's unclear if competition money is included in that (it probably is). Their finances are more murkier and less transparent. Leinster's player wage bill is thought to be around £7m, while ours is around £5.5m I think.
 
exactly. I don't believe TV is included in that £38m...but don't think anyone is 100% on that.
fact of the matter is, the £19m is money that is owed to the regions, so can not be seen as WRU funding in my opinion...that alone brings the sum down to £9m BETWEEN 4!
So each region gets around £2.25m from the WRU but that's not taking into account any compensation. so that sum could easily be below £2m in actual funding where the Irish provinces get get €10m each!
 
 
 
 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 11:04am
Begs the question of where the IRFU get hold of that sort of money. The Aviva receipts would only account for about 50% of that sum. So they are raising over £20M over and above stadium receipts bearing in mind the IRFU overhead needs to be met. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 11:08am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Begs the question of where the IRFU get hold of that sort of money. The Aviva receipts would only account for about 50% of that sum. So they are raising over £20M over and above stadium receipts bearing in mind the IRFU overhead needs to be met. 


I would imagine, though I am happy to be told other wise as its a guess, that they get a percentage of the ROI football teams gate receipts who play there?


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 11:23am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Begs the question of where the IRFU get hold of that sort of money. The Aviva receipts would only account for about 50% of that sum. So they are raising over £20M over and above stadium receipts bearing in mind the IRFU overhead needs to be met. 


IRFU's sponsorship with Vodafone is worth 15m Euros

Their stadium being sponsored by Aviva netted them 40m Euros

They got 5.75m Euros for doing the grand slam. That'll be spent on a few more Scott Fardy's


Posted By: D06Blue
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 11:47am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Begs the question of where the IRFU get hold of that sort of money. The Aviva receipts would only account for about 50% of that sum. So they are raising over £20M over and above stadium receipts bearing in mind the IRFU overhead needs to be met. 


I would imagine, though I am happy to be told other wise as its a guess, that they get a percentage of the ROI football teams gate receipts who play there?

This is absolutely not the case

Here is the latest IRFU Annual Report for anybody wanting to further investigate

https://www.irishrugby.ie/downloads/IRFU_AnnualReport_1617.pdf

Scarlets beat Leinster in the Pro 12 semi final last year, lost by 1 score to them in February this year and drew with them in March this year. I think you guys should look to the positives and at how well things have gone for Scarlets the last while, and what can be done to improve on that. 




Posted By: D06Blue
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 11:51am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Begs the question of where the IRFU get hold of that sort of money. The Aviva receipts would only account for about 50% of that sum. So they are raising over £20M over and above stadium receipts bearing in mind the IRFU overhead needs to be met. 


IRFU's sponsorship with Vodafone is worth 15m Euros

Their stadium being sponsored by Aviva netted them 40m Euros

They got 5.75m Euros for doing the grand slam. That'll be spent on a few more Scott Fardy's


It did not net them €40million as firstly the stadium is shared by the FAI and IRFU. Also, the stadium cost €410m of which approximately €190m was provided by the Irish state, which left the IRFU and FAI with €220m to pay. So the Aviva sponsorship goes straight towards that


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 12:00pm
Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Begs the question of where the IRFU get hold of that sort of money. The Aviva receipts would only account for about 50% of that sum. So they are raising over £20M over and above stadium receipts bearing in mind the IRFU overhead needs to be met. 


IRFU's sponsorship with Vodafone is worth 15m Euros

Their stadium being sponsored by Aviva netted them 40m Euros

They got 5.75m Euros for doing the grand slam. That'll be spent on a few more Scott Fardy's



It did not net them €40million as firstly the stadium is shared by the FAI and IRFU. Also, the stadium cost €410m of which approximately €190m was provided by the Irish state, which left the IRFU and FAI with €220m to pay. So the Aviva sponsorship goes straight towards that


So is it 20m for each body? The deal was still 40m - which is 4m Euros per year over 10 years.

To compare, the Scottish deal for their stadium (BT Sports) was valued at £5m per year.

The principality stadium deal is worth £1.2m per year. (Locked in for 10 years)

It's these sorts of things that give us a disadvantage.

How can Murrayfield be worth that much more than the Millennium Stadium?


Posted By: D06Blue
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 12:13pm
[/QUOTE]

So is it 20m for each body? The deal was still 40m - which is 4m Euros per year over 10 years.

To compare, the Scottish deal for their stadium (BT Sports) was valued at £5m per year.

The principality stadium deal is worth £1.2m per year. (Locked in for 10 years)

It's these sorts of things that give us a disadvantage.

How can Murrayfield be worth that much more than the Millennium Stadium?[/QUOTE]

I do not know how they manage it but there was a joint company between the IRFU and FAI called the Lansdowne Road Stadium Development Company setup to develop the stadium. So it may well run through that and the sponsorship will go towards paying off the stadium

My point was that this money is not currently providing any advantage to the IRFU because it is going towards the debt repayment. The WRU had much less to pay towards the Millenium Stadium and you would think that since it is open since 1999 it would be paid off by now


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

The WRU had much less to pay towards the Millenium Stadium and you would think that since it is open since 1999 it would be paid off by now


2021 is when the millennium stadium will be paid off.


Posted By: D06Blue
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

The WRU had much less to pay towards the Millenium Stadium and you would think that since it is open since 1999 it would be paid off by now


2021 is when the millennium stadium will be paid off.

Genuine question, why didn't they sell the naming rights at the start? It would surely have reduced the debt repayment timeframe? Or was it because it received money from the Millennium Commission that it had to be called Millennium Stadium? Similar mistakes were made with Thomond Park where they thought the name wasn't worth selling around the time of their European glories. Now Munster are still in debt with this whereas probably wouldn't be if they sold the naming rights


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

Genuine question, why didn't they sell the naming rights at the start? It would surely have reduced the debt repayment timeframe? Or was it because it received money from the Millennium Commission that it had to be called Millennium Stadium?


Not a clue sorry, but I think you're probably right.

The ability of French, English and Irish rugby to get big money in via sponsorship is huge compared to Wales. I think at the Scarlets we're on the right track and have secured alot of deals on the back of our pro12 win. But overall, we're light years behind.

You can normally tell, when they don't release the figures of sponsorship deals that they are less in value than their competitors.


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

Genuine question, why didn't they sell the naming rights at the start? It would surely have reduced the debt repayment timeframe? Or was it because it received money from the Millennium Commission that it had to be called Millennium Stadium?


Not a clue sorry, but I think you're probably right.

The ability of French, English and Irish rugby to get big money in via sponsorship is huge compared to Wales. I think at the Scarlets we're on the right track and have secured alot of deals on the back of our pro12 win. But overall, we're light years behind.

You can normally tell, when they don't release the figures of sponsorship deals that they are less in value than their competitors.

It had to be called millennium due to the millennium grant.

This is why they started having the stands sponsored where BT sponsored one stand.



Posted By: Scarlet O'Hara
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 1:04pm
BT stand was down to the stadium being built on part of BT's land. They held the WRU over a barrel then acted as if they had been helpful with the building of the stadium.


Posted By: errlloyd
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 1:17pm
Lads - as I said in another thread, I'm a Leinster Lurker popping in. 

Just on the topic of Fardy, I will agree with the above statements that we're lucky to have access to some quality overseas signings. But I also think Leinster have been fairly moneyball with their foreigners. 

Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Nacewa are our only overseas players only Fardy is an international. (Nacewa had that weird Fiji cap years ago, but never wanted to play for them again). I actually think they're similar level to your foreigners, Barclay, McNichol, and Parkes. I don't list Beirne in that, because I acknowledge he would have stayed at Leinster if we had trusted him, and you deserve credit for making him a professional. I will be an incredibly bitter man when he plays for Munster though. 

Where I have some sympathy for Scarlets is that I understand we seem to have better ability to hold on to our players. I can't think of any top players who left Leinster for money who would have made the 23 this weekend, perhaps Madigan. When we lost Marty Moore I thought we were losing Ireland's starting tighthead, but Furlong and Porter are miles ahead of him now. In contrast, Liam Williams, Rhys Priestland, and George North may not have improved your starting 15 by much, but if they were still part of this scarlets team, their contribution all season and the competitive edge they brought to training would have driven standards. From our end, it seems the WRU are copying our model, and hopefully that leads to an improvement in off the field fortunes for the Welsh Regions. 


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

The WRU funds the regions just over £19m a year between 4. That figure includes the £10m competition moneys owed to us though and alot of the rest is compensation money for player release.

The IRFU funds the pro game in Ireland to the tune of £38m. It's unclear if competition money is included in that (it probably is). Their finances are more murkier and less transparent. Leinster's player wage bill is thought to be around £7m, while ours is around £5.5m I think.

IRFU spend very little on the amateur game IIRC. WRU spent £6.1m on it in the last accounts.

Also the retail and commercial income of Leinster/ Munster and Ulster will be way in excess of Cardiff, Scarlets and Ospreys. I have no idea whether that gets routed through IRFU funding or not.


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We're still still here!


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 1:24pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Begs the question of where the IRFU get hold of that sort of money. The Aviva receipts would only account for about 50% of that sum. So they are raising over £20M over and above stadium receipts bearing in mind the IRFU overhead needs to be met. 


IRFU's sponsorship with Vodafone is worth 15m Euros

Their stadium being sponsored by Aviva netted them 40m Euros

They got 5.75m Euros for doing the grand slam. That'll be spent on a few more Scott Fardy's

Yeah, this too. Our stadium sponsorship deal is poor, about £1.5m per year, whereas the Aviva is £4m.

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


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We're still still here!


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 1:26pm
When Irish players retire from the game don't they get a tax pay back if they've played their career in Ireland ?

If so, that may explain a great deal. At the moment our Assembly Government is limited in what it can do with regard to such tax breaks.


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 1:29pm
Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

The WRU had much less to pay towards the Millenium Stadium and you would think that since it is open since 1999 it would be paid off by now


2021 is when the millennium stadium will be paid off.

Genuine question, why didn't they sell the naming rights at the start? It would surely have reduced the debt repayment timeframe? Or was it because it received money from the Millennium Commission that it had to be called Millennium Stadium? Similar mistakes were made with Thomond Park where they thought the name wasn't worth selling around the time of their European glories. Now Munster are still in debt with this whereas probably wouldn't be if they sold the naming rights
It had to be called Millenium for some time due to the lottery grant. Then (allegedly) Roger Lewis sunk a lucrative offer from BT due to some petulance or other


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We're still still here!


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 1:48pm
For context:
GDP of Ireland in 2017  = $337bn (not including NI)
GDP of NI in 2015 = $38bn
Total = $375bn (ball park)
GDP of Wales in 2015 (last I can find) = $85bn

So in terms of population and wealth, Wales is more akin to an Irish Province than the whole Island of Ireland!

I really don't get why so many people ignore this when complaining that the Scarlets don't have the crowds or budget that Leinster do.

It's like asking why Ireland are below the UK in the Olympic Medal tables


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We're still still here!


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by errlloyd errlloyd wrote:

Lads - as I said in another thread, I'm a Leinster Lurker popping in. 

Just on the topic of Fardy, I will agree with the above statements that we're lucky to have access to some quality overseas signings. But I also think Leinster have been fairly moneyball with their foreigners. 

Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Nacewa are our only overseas players only Fardy is an international. (Nacewa had that weird Fiji cap years ago, but never wanted to play for them again). I actually think they're similar level to your foreigners, Barclay, McNichol, and Parkes. I don't list Beirne in that, because I acknowledge he would have stayed at Leinster if we had trusted him, and you deserve credit for making him a professional. I will be an incredibly bitter man when he plays for Munster though. 

Where I have some sympathy for Scarlets is that I understand we seem to have better ability to hold on to our players. I can't think of any top players who left Leinster for money who would have made the 23 this weekend, perhaps Madigan. When we lost Marty Moore I thought we were losing Ireland's starting tighthead, but Furlong and Porter are miles ahead of him now. In contrast, Liam Williams, Rhys Priestland, and George North may not have improved your starting 15 by much, but if they were still part of this scarlets team, their contribution all season and the competitive edge they brought to training would have driven standards. From our end, it seems the WRU are copying our model, and hopefully that leads to an improvement in off the field fortunes for the Welsh Regions. 
thanks for the comments looking in from the outside.
if WRU are copying the Irish model they certainly missed a few pages!!!
There are now similarities with Leinster/Munster/Scarlets with the shape up of the squads - scarlet boys representing the region sprinkled with southern hemisphere dust!
BUT, its only since Pivac took over we have got southern hem quality in our squad (bar Regan King) such as Johnny McNicholl, Werner Kruger etc. Kruger, a springbok, mcnicholl very close to all black call up before his move to us.
Before those signings, our overseas had a handful max of appearances in Super Rugby, if that, where majority came from currie cup.
Compare those to the likes that Munster/Ulster/Leinster have had over the last 10yrs...Rocky Elsom, Doug Howlett, Christian Cullen, Jim Williams, Ruaan Pienaar, Brad Thorn, CJ Stander, Jean de Villiers etc...established international players, cream of the crop.
The only signings in Welsh rugby in the regional era to rival those are possibly the Ospreys when they signed Collins, Holah, Marshall, TiaTia etc.
 
We are getting there slowly IMO, and on half the budget of the Irish provinces, we are doing remarkably well to bring in players of the quality that we have and keeping those local lads when they become hot property for the English/French.
 
But whilst the funding from the respective unions are HUGE in difference, lets not forget the amount European QFs, SFs, Finals and European Trophies Leinster have had. big cash there in prize money alone. It was said before that the QFs and Semis prize money 11+years ago kept the club afloat alone at one point...so 11years without anything, we have certainly been missing a big carrot.
 
Baby steps possibly, but with what we have, we are doing VERY well and maybe one day, Scarlets will be able to afford to bring in a player like Rocky Elsom!
 
I am convinced that last years Pro12 champion victory was the beginning. This squad have now backed that up with Semi Final in Europe and so far the title defence is going well...SO...we are at the start of a brilliant age. This squad now know what it takes to get to the Semi and seen what it takes to go on to the final (and probably win).
 
If the WRU match what the IRFU give, then great, but it wont happen any time soon, so lets enjoy the ride.
 
Good luck to Leinster, they have beaten all the top sides this season to get to the final.
Exeter, top of the premiership. Montpellier, top of the Top14. Glasgow, top of the Pro14. Sarries, Europes defending champions. Scarlets, Pro14 defending champions. To have gone through Europe unbeaten (so far) beating those sides, incredible.
 


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 3:33pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.


Posted By: Micro Duck
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 3:55pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!


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ARGRAFFIADUR - LLANELLI AND WALES INSPIRED MERCH

[URL=https://llanelli.teemill.com//URL]


Posted By: trident
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.


Even if that's just turnover and not profit, it has to be a bit fanciful.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by trident trident wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.


Even if that's just turnover and not profit, it has to be a bit fanciful.


They have to submit anticipated budgets every year before the season starts. They are heavily scrutinised by their financial authorities, despite what some think or they get relegated like some big clubs have in recent years. Toulon's budget is :

Euros:

Sponsorship : 11,2 m
Tickets : 10 m
Restaurant sales : 4,8 m
Public funding : 2,9 millions
TV Top 14 : 1,4 millions
TV H Cup : 891 000
Equipement manufacturer : 1 million
International release money : 180 000
Insurance for injuries : 800 000

That's a projected income of £29m. Insane money which easily funds the £10m player payroll.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:21pm
Sponsorship of 11.2 million is unbelievable. We need to sign up their marketing director!!!


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:26pm
Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!

Well, you can see pictures of the dishes here:

http://www.rctoulon.com/brasseries/rct-cafe/" rel="nofollow - http://www.rctoulon.com/brasseries/rct-cafe/

though as far as I can see, there's no way to get the names/descriptions of the dishes - or the prices!


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: trident
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by trident trident wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.


Even if that's just turnover and not profit, it has to be a bit fanciful.


They have to submit anticipated budgets every year before the season starts. They are heavily scrutinised by their financial authorities, despite what some think or they get relegated like some big clubs have in recent years. Toulon's budget is :

Euros:

Sponsorship : 11,2 m
Tickets : 10 m
Restaurant sales : 4,8 m
Public funding : 2,9 millions
TV Top 14 : 1,4 millions
TV H Cup : 891 000
Equipement manufacturer : 1 million
International release money : 180 000
Insurance for injuries : 800 000

That's a projected income of £29m. Insane money which easily funds the £10m player payroll.


Didn't realise the context of that figure, thanks. I'd guess then that it includes all f&b sales including match day bars, rather than just the restaurant, in which case it makes more sense


Posted By: NobbySosban
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

Genuine question, why didn't they sell the naming rights at the start? It would surely have reduced the debt repayment timeframe? Or was it because it received money from the Millennium Commission that it had to be called Millennium Stadium? 

As others have said, part funding by Millennium Commission precluded commercial naming rights for a period of time.

As WRU CEO, Roger Lewis accelerated the interest payments during his tenure although it was a prolonged period of record low interest rates - effectively he wanted to keep the Regions poor in the hope of taking the keys off them if/when the independent benefactors had had enough. He held the Regions to ransom over a new Rugby Services Agreement, saying that if they didn't sign it, they would 'cease to exist'.

This didn't (quite) happen, but the Regions stuck together and came up with their own commercial plan, which included the reformed European competition, the proceeds of which needed to be channelled through the WRU for commercial reasons - WRU needed a minimum turnover in order to keep within the bank's mortgage Ts&Cs. Lewis eventually had to capitulate, and the tide had turned.

Then, when BT came along with a decent stadium naming rights offer, Lewis (already on notice in his job) managed to p___ them off, so they took their cash to the SRU and renamed Murrayfield. With the change, they became short-term stadium sponsors for Cardiff Arms Park & shirt sponsors of the other 3 Regions, then the Principality Building Society were hastily lined up on a great-value (for them) long-term deal to name the national stadium. Lewis's parting shot to hamstring the Welsh game for another generation - thanks, Woger.

That's the short answer, anyway. Wink




Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
 
magic  beans  LOLLOLLOL
 
no rugby club restaurant is turning over 4.8 m euros a year, that is pure bunkum and smacks of cooking the books (like the pun?) .
 
As for Fardy damned good player and worth every penny leinster paid him as were the likes of thorne and elsom before him
 
 
Leinster  are excellent and picking up top class overseas players, yes they spend big but they still recruit well , plus they have a superb academy that brings through some great local players for them
 
 
It's pointless us carping about it and frankly it smacks of sour grapes, we are better than that
 
 
 
 
 
 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Sponsorship of 11.2 million is unbelievable. We need to sign up their marketing director!!!
 
Wouldn't shock me if their benefactor is or an associated company is  their main sponsor , it's bit like how man city  and psg do it


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:09pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
 
magic  beans  LOLLOLLOL
 
no rugby club restaurant is turning over 4.8 m euros a year, that is pure bunkum and smacks of cooking the books (like the pun?) .
 
As for Fardy damned good player and worth every penny leinster paid him as were the likes of thorne and elsom before him
 
 
Leinster  are excellent and picking up top class overseas players, yes they spend big but they still recruit well , plus they have a superb academy that brings through some great local players for them
 
 
It's pointless us carping about it and frankly it smacks of sour grapes, we are better than that
 
 
 
 
 
 
Fortunate to have a number of good quality private rugby playing schools  in Dublin and area which are a good base of young local rugby talent for them. It is as it is though, and we have to do the best we can as RR says 

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"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

For context:
GDP of Ireland in 2017  = $337bn (not including NI)
GDP of NI in 2015 = $38bn
Total = $375bn (ball park)
GDP of Wales in 2015 (last I can find) = $85bn

So in terms of population and wealth, Wales is more akin to an Irish Province than the whole Island of Ireland!

I really don't get why so many people ignore this when complaining that the Scarlets don't have the crowds or budget that Leinster do.

It's like asking why Ireland are below the UK in the Olympic Medal tables
 
didn't we know all this when we demanded stand alone status though?
 
the IRFU have all the players centrally contracted and run the provincial game, I doubt anyone on here wants that for the region do they?
 
 


Posted By: D06Blue
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
 
magic  beans  LOLLOLLOL
 
no rugby club restaurant is turning over 4.8 m euros a year, that is pure bunkum and smacks of cooking the books (like the pun?) .
 
As for Fardy damned good player and worth every penny leinster paid him as were the likes of thorne and elsom before him
 
 
Leinster  are excellent and picking up top class overseas players, yes they spend big but they still recruit well , plus they have a superb academy that brings through some great local players for them
 
 
It's pointless us carping about it and frankly it smacks of sour grapes, we are better than that
 
 
 
 
 
 


Why not? The RC Toulon restaurant is a full time business that is open every day serving food and drinks in the centre of town near the waterfront. They're not just churning out burgers on matchday. It is also open until 1am every matchday. It is quite conceivable that a business like that in a city like Toulon could be quite a success. Perhaps other clubs should look at this as an example of how they can increase revenue streams through other business ventures


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:19pm
Originally posted by D06Blue D06Blue wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.

What are they selling?!!!
 
magic  beans  LOLLOLLOL
 
no rugby club restaurant is turning over 4.8 m euros a year, that is pure bunkum and smacks of cooking the books (like the pun?) .
 
As for Fardy damned good player and worth every penny leinster paid him as were the likes of thorne and elsom before him
 
 
Leinster  are excellent and picking up top class overseas players, yes they spend big but they still recruit well , plus they have a superb academy that brings through some great local players for them
 
 
It's pointless us carping about it and frankly it smacks of sour grapes, we are better than that
 
 
 
 
 
 


Why not? The RC Toulon restaurant is a full time business that is open every day serving food and drinks in the centre of town near the waterfront. They're not just churning out burgers on matchday. It is also open until 1am every matchday. It is quite conceivable that a business like that in a city like Toulon could be quite a success. Perhaps other clubs should look at this as an example of how they can increase revenue streams through other business ventures
 
 
92,000 euro a week for 52 weeks a year? including offseason?
 
seems well ott to me, it's a rugby club   restaurant   not the ivy mind , plus toloun nice place as it is . is hardly paris or rome or London  and won't have the same footfall


Posted By: NobbySosban
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

didn't we know all this when we demanded stand alone status though?
 
the IRFU have all the players centrally contracted and run the provincial game, I doubt anyone on here wants that for the region do they?
 
 

With Paddy Jackson exiled from Ireland, the IRFU want either Byrne or Carbery to switch from Leinster to Ulster. That's the system in Ireland - all obey the Union.




Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by Micro Duck Micro Duck wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

To put that £1.5m/yr in context, Sarries charge £500k per year to be shirt sponsors!


I was looking at Toulon's budget recently - the club makes 4.8m Euros through it's restaurant every year.


What are they selling?!!!


Well, you can see pictures of the dishes here:

http://www.rctoulon.com/brasseries/rct-cafe/" rel="nofollow - http://www.rctoulon.com/brasseries/rct-cafe/

though as far as I can see, there's no way to get the names/descriptions of the dishes - or the prices!

If you have to ask the price, you can’t afford it,

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We're still still here!


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 6:59pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

For context:
GDP of Ireland in 2017  = $337bn (not including NI)
GDP of NI in 2015 = $38bn
Total = $375bn (ball park)
GDP of Wales in 2015 (last I can find) = $85bn

So in terms of population and wealth, Wales is more akin to an Irish Province than the whole Island of Ireland!

I really don't get why so many people ignore this when complaining that the Scarlets don't have the crowds or budget that Leinster do.

It's like asking why Ireland are below the UK in the Olympic Medal tables

 
didn't we know all this when we demanded stand alone status though?
 
the IRFU have all the players centrally contracted and run the provincial game, I doubt anyone on here wants that for the region do they?
 
 


I’m not sayin we didn’t, or complaining about those facts. Just the idiots that say we should be getting 14000 in every week and having squads to match the Irish. It will never happen and we will have to continue punching above our weight

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We're still still here!


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 7:01pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Sponsorship of 11.2 million is unbelievable. We need to sign up their marketing director!!!

 
Wouldn't shock me if their benefactor is or an associated company is  their main sponsor , it's bit like how man city  and psg do it

In France “sponsorship” includes any input from benefactors

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We're still still here!


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Sponsorship of 11.2 million is unbelievable. We need to sign up their marketing director!!!

 
Wouldn't shock me if their benefactor is or an associated company is  their main sponsor , it's bit like how man city  and psg do it

In France “sponsorship” includes any input from benefactors


Their main sponsors are Mutuelle des soleil, Orangina and Volkswagen. They're not connected with their benefactor at all. He says he doesn't put any money in the club routinely anymore as Toulon now turn a profit.


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 9:21pm
Not true, Toulon are held up by investors. They had a black hole of €3 million in their finances last year and were bailed by Mourad.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 10:11pm
Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

Not true, Toulon are held up by investors. They had a black hole of €3 million in their finances last year and were bailed by Mourad.


That's why I said "routinely".


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 23 April 2018 at 11:25pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Sponsorship of 11.2 million is unbelievable. We need to sign up their marketing director!!!

 
Wouldn't shock me if their benefactor is or an associated company is  their main sponsor , it's bit like how man city  and psg do it

In France “sponsorship” includes any input from benefactors


Their main sponsors are Mutuelle des soleil, Orangina and Volkswagen. They're not connected with their benefactor at all. He says he doesn't put any money in the club routinely anymore as Toulon now turn a profit.

In general, I mean

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We're still still here!


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 24 April 2018 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Sponsorship of 11.2 million is unbelievable. We need to sign up their marketing director!!!

 
Wouldn't shock me if their benefactor is or an associated company is  their main sponsor , it's bit like how man city  and psg do it

In France “sponsorship” includes any input from benefactors


Their main sponsors are Mutuelle des soleil, Orangina and Volkswagen. They're not connected with their benefactor at all. He says he doesn't put any money in the club routinely anymore as Toulon now turn a profit.
 
 
I doubt any rugby club makes a profit , let alone one with their wage bill
 
Toloun have had a great run since this guy got involved but historically speaking they are not one of the power houses of French rugby
 
I suspect they along with teams like the sarries have very creative accountancy records


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 24 April 2018 at 9:37pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:


 
 
I doubt any rugby club makes a profit , let alone one with their wage bill
 
Toloun have had a great run since this guy got involved but historically speaking they are not one of the power houses of French rugby
 
I suspect they along with teams like the sarries have very creative accountancy records


Some people will just see them as nasty baddies whatever happens I guess.

The truth is, the Scarlets have exactly the same operating model.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 25 April 2018 at 10:37am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:


 
 
I doubt any rugby club makes a profit , let alone one with their wage bill
 
Toloun have had a great run since this guy got involved but historically speaking they are not one of the power houses of French rugby
 
I suspect they along with teams like the sarries have very creative accountancy records


Some people will just see them as nasty baddies whatever happens I guess.

The truth is, the Scarlets have exactly the same operating model.
 
I'm not saying they are the bad guys, I have no strong feelings on them either way tbh.
 
I'm just saying with their wage bill no way they are operating at a profit unless they are being bankrolled by sugar daddys.
 
I agree our operating model also relies on benefactors but the majority of our side are home grown through feeder clubs and academy sides, they seem to in for the finished article from elsewhere.
 
 


Posted By: Antietam1
Date Posted: 25 April 2018 at 1:14pm
Byrne and Carbery are not going to Ulster, Byrne's younger brother is a good prospect also Frawley and others so somethings got to give
They will have about 9 former Leinster players at Ulster by the time Jordy or" Nordy Murphy" and Marty Moore gets there.
We don't have it all our way here in Leinster, while everybody wants to watch the game nobody wants to play it.
You rarely see kids with a rugby ball here, it's all Gaelic football, Hurling and soccer.
Leinster managed to bring in new fans when they were getting thumped every week, and indeed earned the title Ladyboys.


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badabing badabook



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