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Topic: WRU
Posted By: ladram
Subject: WRU
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:36am
Andrew coombes makes some good points in wol today about the business loan the wru took out to give us money to survive and then passed the payments on to the regions,does anyone more erudite (most of you)than me know how that is legal?



Replies:
Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Andrew coombes makes some good points in wol today about the business loan the wru took out to give us money to survive and then passed the payments on to the regions,does anyone more erudite (most of you)than me know how that is legal?


It is the situation as it stands. Crazy as it may seem. The regions will be paying back £20m of £23m borrowed.The WRU  is not fit for purpose in running the pro game. In fact most of  the  WRU have no interest in the pro-game; they are committee men from small clubs who spend all the WRU grants on poaching players from each other rather than on coaching or development facilities. As long as the national team is successful, international fixtures will generate the income that small clubs fritter away so they can beat the local rival or win Division 6 West. Other than that they have little interest in the Regions who they see as greedy monsters siphoning off money from "the grass roots".  They'll wax lyrical about the good old days and local derbies against Aberflyarf. Let's get real. The days of small clubs challenging at the top level are long gone. There isn't enough money to have the Pontys, Neath, Ebbw Vale, Bridgend + Cardiff, Swansea, Llanelli, Newport any more. We can barely support three but that's where the  next generation of internationals will come from and those players need to be competitive at European level in order to make the jump to international level.  The financial structure and control of the game needs to be in the hands of a streamlined. professionally exprerienced, board which puts the pro game first because everything is dependent on its success. It can't run by committee men from Bargoed any more.


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What's going on?


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 5:39pm
This, from Simon Thomas' article in WoL(11/03/21)  regarding the CVC windfall.

"What will the money be spent on in Wales?

The WRU plan is to invest the money in long term projects which will pay regular dividends in the future.

We’ve already seen this strategy in action with the Westgate Hotel development.

That involves the old post office building on Westgate Street, next to the Principality Stadium, being converted into a hotel, with an opening pencilled in for this autumn.

The idea behind that WRU project is to make an initial capital investment to generate revenue on an annual basis.

So it seems we can expect to see more schemes of that nature.

One example would be the proposed roof walk visitor attraction, which would enable people to walk on top of the roof of the Principality Stadium, taking in panoramic views of Cardiff.

The WRU has also dipped a toe in the brewing market with the launch of its own beer and that might be a sign of things to come in terms of an area for further investment.

There has obviously been a major shortfall in income as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.

But it's pretty clear the CVC money will not be used by the WRU to plug that gap in the short-term, with generating future income being their firm focus.

In essence, the Union approach could best be summed up as looking at tomorrow rather than today.

For them, it's all about long-term sustainability.

Now, inevitably, questions will be raised over the financial plight of Wales’ four pro teams and whether a portion of the CVC money should not be used to address their immediate issues.

The regions have had their payments from the WRU slashed from £26m to £3m due to the pandemic.

A £20m bank loan has been taken out with NatWest to keep the pro game afloat, but that will have to be paid back by the four teams.

Fans of the regions will be far from happy if all the CVC money goes towards more hotel-style projects when the sides they support are facing such a financial burden.

However, it does seem as though the Union’s focus will be on the long-term rather than any short-term fix.

There are moves to renegotiate the terms of the £20m bank loan, so that it will be paid back over a longer term and with reduced interest.

But it will still be the regions paying it back and it's pretty clear that none of the £51m CVC money will be making its way to them in the short-term.

Instead the focus will be on the WRU using the money they are to receive over the next five years to generate long-term income for the Welsh game.

In essence, it's a case of them focusing on equity rather than debt and on new streams of future revenue.

On that front, there is one comment in the Union's press release on the deal that really catches the eye. It comes from chairman Rob Butcher.

He says: “If the recent challenges faced across the sporting landscape teach us anything, it is that diversifying our income beyond the traditional stadium income model is vital.”

That gives a pretty clear clue of the direction of travel we can expect to see - projects that will “make this money work hard for Welsh rugby in the long term”, to again use Butcher’s words."


When any of the dividends from this 'diversification' will ever get to improve the Regions is anybody's guess. Great isn't it...



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What's going on?


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 5:49pm
Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

This, from Simon Thomas' article in WoL(11/03/21)  regarding the CVC windfall.

"What will the money be spent on in Wales?

The WRU plan is to invest the money in long term projects which will pay regular dividends in the future.

We’ve already seen this strategy in action with the Westgate Hotel development.

That involves the old post office building on Westgate Street, next to the Principality Stadium, being converted into a hotel, with an opening pencilled in for this autumn.

The idea behind that WRU project is to make an initial capital investment to generate revenue on an annual basis.

So it seems we can expect to see more schemes of that nature.

One example would be the proposed roof walk visitor attraction, which would enable people to walk on top of the roof of the Principality Stadium, taking in panoramic views of Cardiff.

The WRU has also dipped a toe in the brewing market with the launch of its own beer and that might be a sign of things to come in terms of an area for further investment.

There has obviously been a major shortfall in income as a result of the Covid-19 pandemic.

But it's pretty clear the CVC money will not be used by the WRU to plug that gap in the short-term, with generating future income being their firm focus.

In essence, the Union approach could best be summed up as looking at tomorrow rather than today.

For them, it's all about long-term sustainability.

Now, inevitably, questions will be raised over the financial plight of Wales’ four pro teams and whether a portion of the CVC money should not be used to address their immediate issues.

The regions have had their payments from the WRU slashed from £26m to £3m due to the pandemic.

A £20m bank loan has been taken out with NatWest to keep the pro game afloat, but that will have to be paid back by the four teams.

Fans of the regions will be far from happy if all the CVC money goes towards more hotel-style projects when the sides they support are facing such a financial burden.

However, it does seem as though the Union’s focus will be on the long-term rather than any short-term fix.

There are moves to renegotiate the terms of the £20m bank loan, so that it will be paid back over a longer term and with reduced interest.

But it will still be the regions paying it back and it's pretty clear that none of the £51m CVC money will be making its way to them in the short-term.

Instead the focus will be on the WRU using the money they are to receive over the next five years to generate long-term income for the Welsh game.

In essence, it's a case of them focusing on equity rather than debt and on new streams of future revenue.

On that front, there is one comment in the Union's press release on the deal that really catches the eye. It comes from chairman Rob Butcher.

He says: “If the recent challenges faced across the sporting landscape teach us anything, it is that diversifying our income beyond the traditional stadium income model is vital.”

That gives a pretty clear clue of the direction of travel we can expect to see - projects that will “make this money work hard for Welsh rugby in the long term”, to again use Butcher’s words."

When any of the dividends from this 'diversification' will ever get to improve the Regions is anybody's guess. Great isn't it...

I’m not necessarily opposed to them investing in all of these things if they believe it will bring in more revenues in the future but the CVC money from the Pro 14 (as well as the money from the Six Nations CVC deal preferably) should be spent on the regions, with the WRU using their own money / borrowing to fund these extra projects, especially since they currently have so little debt. 



Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 6:42pm
I have a feeling any extra wru money will be spent bringing back welsh qualified players. I can see them trying to get the likes on toby f , owen williams and maybe even lrz back. They are looking out for team wales above everything else. 


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 6:46pm
Here’s my view fwiw, right or entirely wrong.

What is the purpose of a sporting governing body?
To promote the sport through good times and bad.
The exact details will be written down in, what should be publicly available, statements. Whether this is something recent and trendy, or dating back to the Articles & Memorandum of Assoctions is another matter.

Investments
Should come from surplus funds available, after having honoured commitments to the game. With the current structure, the WRU have set aside an untouchable sum for non-revenue producing (for the WRU) grassroots. What tests for value for money etc are applied here is anyone’s guess.
If it’s the bidding war to recruit players to Aberflyhalf instead of Cwmandenjoywinningwithus, can anyone justify why the governing body should pay for that?


In this pandemic, even the Tory govt have borrowed more than they’ve ever borrowed before to help out the people. Quite why the WRU, in the heart of traditional Labour support, should continue the austerity policies of George Osborne is anyone’s guess, too. 
I’m probably not alone in wanting to know.


Are the WRU breaching any agreements, or contracts, by what they’re doing with the finances is a question for others in more privileged positions.

Could the board members be sued for negligence due to the actions they’ve taken? Unless covered by insurance, there’s not a lot of point in taking an ex-teacher, for example, to court for personal liabilities that are likely to exceed their assets by a large multiple.

Are the press asking the right questions?

Some are putting the spotlight on the issue and Andrew Coombes’s piece is timely and direct. As an ex-international who is bilingual, he can take a more outspoken stance. What about others within the Welsh rugby media?

Many journalists have less currency, compared to Andrew and others so if they want to pursue the story, they have to play a longer game.

Sadly, not enough are interested, it seems. The threat of lack of access to sources as punishment for critical coverage is too much for them.

Just my musings, of course, and could be total tosh.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:01pm
Out of curio if the wru gave each region an extra million pounds right now. How do we think each region would spend it?


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio if the wru gave each region an extra million pounds right now. How do we think each region would spend it?


I think they'd all look at players first, new and re-signings. Then maybe coaches. Then maybe development schemes.

Possibly not the right order but who knows....??


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What's going on?


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:18pm
Not defending the wru and i agree all regions need better players and more finance. But how would say each region bringing in 3 top class nwq players in on huge money help the welsh test team or improve the wru finances? Any more money they do release is imo going
To come with caveats on how and where it can be spent. Eg only being used to target wq players and going on coaches and player development not on first team quick fixes. Not saying they Are right but i think that’s what they will do


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:25pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Not defending the wru and i agree all regions need better players and more finance. But how would say each region bringing in 3 top class nwq players in on huge money help the welsh test team or improve the wru finances? Any more money they do release is imo going
To come with caveats on how and where it can be spent. Eg only being used to target wq players and going on coaches and player development not on first team quick fixes. Not saying they Are right but i think that’s what they will do
How can you set targets for the business, when you’ve reneged on agreed and achieved targets under current agreements?

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Rob Hunt
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:35pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio if the wru gave each region an extra million pounds right now. How do we think each region would spend it?
Suspect the Ospreys would could continue their raid on the other regions’ academy products, judging by today’s new signing.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:36pm
They’ll point to covid . They will just point to loss of revenue due to covid. I’m not sure what guranteed funding was set in stone. Rugby journos seem very non commitall on this. the point stands though there is no real upside for the wru if the regions bring in a few over seas stars is there? I agree we need better players and more funding i’m just saying what they will say. The wru are more focussed on long term income streams than helping the regions. Untill team wales get affected they won’t care


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by Rob Hunt Rob Hunt wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio if the wru gave each region an extra million pounds right now. How do we think each region would spend it?
Suspect the Ospreys would could continue their raid on the other regions’ academy products, judging by today’s new signing.
i don’t think the blues had offered this warren a contract extension . I maybe wrong mind surprised the blues releasing him if he’s any good but keeping the likes of scott andrews!


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 8:51pm
If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.




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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
The latter two have pockets deeper than your stingiest drinking mate in terms of when they’d buy a round.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
The latter two have pockets deeper than your stingiest drinking mate in terms of when they’d buy a round.


In 2018 Saracens wrote off £48m of debt. Still making a loss of £4m per annum with £18m per annum revenue (as of 2019).

Yep, Nigel has very deep pockets.


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What's going on?


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:06pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.
i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
Leinster have signed Fardy and Gibson-Park in recent season so it’s not like they’re pinching pennies with their overseas signings. We obviously couldn’t do that because of our smaller budget, although I do agree with your general point that Leinster have spent big on their coaches to improve their players, rather than just buying new and better players.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 7:13am
The difference in Ireland is individual backers pay the salary for their star players. I read someone say that the person paying for RG Synman is unhappy at the moment due to him suffering an injury in one of his first matches. 


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 7:43am
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.
i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
Leinster have signed Fardy and Gibson-Park in recent season so it’s not like they’re pinching pennies with their overseas signings. We obviously couldn’t do that because of our smaller budget, although I do agree with your general point that Leinster have spent big on their coaches to improve their players, rather than just buying new and better players.
Gibson-Park was a bit part player in Super Rugby. I doubt they paid big bucks for him 

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 8:09am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.
i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
Leinster have signed Fardy and Gibson-Park in recent season so it’s not like they’re pinching pennies with their overseas signings. We obviously couldn’t do that because of our smaller budget, although I do agree with your general point that Leinster have spent big on their coaches to improve their players, rather than just buying new and better players.
Gibson-Park was a bit part player in Super Rugby. I doubt they paid big bucks for him 

Precisely Steff. There is some narrative that Leinster buy their success which is a little off the mark. Their investment over the past 5 years in overseas players has been way lower than ours & miniscule when compared with the top French teams.

Leinster have invested heavily in their coaching structure bringing in top level coaches who understand the requirements to win at the top level. Below that they have a great academy structure which prepares their young players to play the Leinster way and is totally geared to getting these players ready for the 1st team. In a phrase the system is totally joined up with a clear focus on the goals. Take one example - Ryan Baird. Within 18 months of making his debut he has seemlessly moved into the Ireland squad.

If the WRU were fit for purpose, which they clearly are not, they would be using the windfall monies to sit down with all regions and drastically improve their academy & coaching structures so that Welsh talent is not wasted and that it can be given every opportunity to flourish. Investing in capital projects for future revenue is a great idea but if a project is worth doing with good enough future income streams then it surely could come from business loans which are pretty cheap in the current climate leaving the windfall money available for the solving the very real problems which abound in regional rugby. 


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 8:14am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.
i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
Leinster have signed Fardy and Gibson-Park in recent season so it’s not like they’re pinching pennies with their overseas signings. We obviously couldn’t do that because of our smaller budget, although I do agree with your general point that Leinster have spent big on their coaches to improve their players, rather than just buying new and better players.
Gibson-Park was a bit part player in Super Rugby. I doubt they paid big bucks for him 

Precisely Steff. There is some narrative that Leinster buy their success which is a little off the mark. Their investment over the past 5 years in overseas players has been way lower than ours & miniscule when compared with the top French teams.

Leinster have invested heavily in their coaching structure bringing in top level coaches who understand the requirements to win at the top level. Below that they have a great academy structure which prepares their young players to play the Leinster way and is totally geared to getting these players ready for the 1st team. In a phrase the system is totally joined up with a clear focus on the goals. Take one example - Ryan Baird. Within 18 months of making his debut he has seemlessly moved into the Ireland squad.

If the WRU were fit for purpose, which they clearly are not, they would be using the windfall monies to sit down with all regions and drastically improve their academy & coaching structures so that Welsh talent is not wasted and that it can be given every opportunity to flourish. Investing in capital projects for future revenue is a great idea but if a project is worth doing with good enough future income streams then it surely could come from business loans which are pretty cheap in the current climate leaving the windfall money available for the solving the very real problems which abound in regional rugby. 
The last paragraph, in particular, is spot on.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Rob o'r Bont
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 8:40am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.
i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
Leinster have signed Fardy and Gibson-Park in recent season so it’s not like they’re pinching pennies with their overseas signings. We obviously couldn’t do that because of our smaller budget, although I do agree with your general point that Leinster have spent big on their coaches to improve their players, rather than just buying new and better players.
Gibson-Park was a bit part player in Super Rugby. I doubt they paid big bucks for him 

Precisely Steff. There is some narrative that Leinster buy their success which is a little off the mark. Their investment over the past 5 years in overseas players has been way lower than ours & miniscule when compared with the top French teams.

Leinster have invested heavily in their coaching structure bringing in top level coaches who understand the requirements to win at the top level. Below that they have a great academy structure which prepares their young players to play the Leinster way and is totally geared to getting these players ready for the 1st team. In a phrase the system is totally joined up with a clear focus on the goals. Take one example - Ryan Baird. Within 18 months of making his debut he has seemlessly moved into the Ireland squad.

If the WRU were fit for purpose, which they clearly are not, they would be using the windfall monies to sit down with all regions and drastically improve their academy & coaching structures so that Welsh talent is not wasted and that it can be given every opportunity to flourish. Investing in capital projects for future revenue is a great idea but if a project is worth doing with good enough future income streams then it surely could come from business loans which are pretty cheap in the current climate leaving the windfall money available for the solving the very real problems which abound in regional rugby. 
The last paragraph, in particular, is spot on.
Indeed.  Good post GPR. 

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 9:10am
As we begin to emerge from a chaotic Covid year do we assume that the 4 Regions ( Clubs?) model is here to stay then ? The trouble is that each region will want their region to continue based on the ‘over  my dead body’ school of logic which isn’t necessarily substantive in the world of finances and TV and Sponorship revenue which is arguably worth more than a £100 -300 clump of season tickets. 

Will the WRU lead the way forward and in what manner? The regional debate and the sustainability of 4 regions just looks unrealistic in our professional game 🤔 I pose the issue not the answer! 


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"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 9:27am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

As we begin to emerge from a chaotic Covid year do we assume that the 4 Regions ( Clubs?) model is here to stay then ? The trouble is that each region will want their region to continue based on the ‘over  my dead body’ school of logic which isn’t necessarily substantive in the world of finances and TV and Sponorship revenue which is arguably worth more than a £100 -300 clump of season tickets. 

Will the WRU lead the way forward and in what manner? The regional debate and the sustainability of 4 regions just looks unrealistic in our professional game 🤔 I pose the issue not the answer! 
There are questions related to how both the professional clubs and the WRU measure up.

Clubs-wise, how do the different commercial departments perform? 
You can ask the same question across many departments of the pro clubs. 

The last time it was done, we scored highly and were best in the KPIs, I believe.

As for the WRU leading in a creative, smart, business-like way, I won’t hold my breath. They are more likely to lead with negative stuff and cuts and/or stories about using money as if they were an investment company, not a supporter and grower of their sport.

Just my view.



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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Rob Hunt
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 9:30am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.
i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
Leinster have signed Fardy and Gibson-Park in recent season so it’s not like they’re pinching pennies with their overseas signings. We obviously couldn’t do that because of our smaller budget, although I do agree with your general point that Leinster have spent big on their coaches to improve their players, rather than just buying new and better players.
Gibson-Park was a bit part player in Super Rugby. I doubt they paid big bucks for him 

Precisely Steff. There is some narrative that Leinster buy their success which is a little off the mark. Their investment over the past 5 years in overseas players has been way lower than ours & miniscule when compared with the top French teams.

Leinster have invested heavily in their coaching structure bringing in top level coaches who understand the requirements to win at the top level. Below that they have a great academy structure which prepares their young players to play the Leinster way and is totally geared to getting these players ready for the 1st team. In a phrase the system is totally joined up with a clear focus on the goals. Take one example - Ryan Baird. Within 18 months of making his debut he has seemlessly moved into the Ireland squad.

If the WRU were fit for purpose, which they clearly are not, they would be using the windfall monies to sit down with all regions and drastically improve their academy & coaching structures so that Welsh talent is not wasted and that it can be given every opportunity to flourish. Investing in capital projects for future revenue is a great idea but if a project is worth doing with good enough future income streams then it surely could come from business loans which are pretty cheap in the current climate leaving the windfall money available for the solving the very real problems which abound in regional rugby. 
I agree with your comment at the start of the third paragraph, but I’m not sure that it would stop the Ospreys from parasitising the other region’ academies.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 9:31am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

As we begin to emerge from a chaotic Covid year do we assume that the 4 Regions ( Clubs?) model is here to stay then ? The trouble is that each region will want their region to continue based on the ‘over  my dead body’ school of logic which isn’t necessarily substantive in the world of finances and TV and Sponorship revenue which is arguably worth more than a £100 -300 clump of season tickets. 

Will the WRU lead the way forward and in what manner? The regional debate and the sustainability of 4 Welsh regions just looks unrealistic in our professional game 🤔 I pose the issue not the answer! 
There are questions related to how both the professional clubs and the WRU measure up.

Clubs-wise, how do the different commercial departments perform? 
You can ask the same question across many departments of the pro clubs. 

The last time it was done, we scored highly and were best in the KPIs, I believe.

As for the WRU leading in a creative, smart, business-like way, I won’t hold my breath. They are more likely to lead with negative stuff and cuts and/or stories about using money as if they were an investment company, not a supporter and grower of their sport.

Just my view.

I share your reservations about the WRU. I feel that they won’t dictate/ proscribe harshly on the one hand,or on the other hand  empathise and support. I just anticipate continued fudging sadly when we need dynamism. 

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"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 9:45am
Originally posted by Rob Hunt Rob Hunt wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.
i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
Leinster have signed Fardy and Gibson-Park in recent season so it’s not like they’re pinching pennies with their overseas signings. We obviously couldn’t do that because of our smaller budget, although I do agree with your general point that Leinster have spent big on their coaches to improve their players, rather than just buying new and better players.
Gibson-Park was a bit part player in Super Rugby. I doubt they paid big bucks for him 

Precisely Steff. There is some narrative that Leinster buy their success which is a little off the mark. Their investment over the past 5 years in overseas players has been way lower than ours & miniscule when compared with the top French teams.

Leinster have invested heavily in their coaching structure bringing in top level coaches who understand the requirements to win at the top level. Below that they have a great academy structure which prepares their young players to play the Leinster way and is totally geared to getting these players ready for the 1st team. In a phrase the system is totally joined up with a clear focus on the goals. Take one example - Ryan Baird. Within 18 months of making his debut he has seemlessly moved into the Ireland squad.

If the WRU were fit for purpose, which they clearly are not, they would be using the windfall monies to sit down with all regions and drastically improve their academy & coaching structures so that Welsh talent is not wasted and that it can be given every opportunity to flourish. Investing in capital projects for future revenue is a great idea but if a project is worth doing with good enough future income streams then it surely could come from business loans which are pretty cheap in the current climate leaving the windfall money available for the solving the very real problems which abound in regional rugby. 
I agree with your comment at the start of the third paragraph, but I’m not sure that it would stop the Ospreys from parasitising the other region’ academies.

I really fail to understand this continuing criticism of the Ospreys particularly on a topic which is, unless I am mistaken, about the WRU and the way forward in governance. We really need to get over who the Ospreys sign & where they come from. These are young professional players who are totally free to decide who they sign a contract with. The fact may be that the Ospreys may have convinced said players that they will get more opportunity for games and that they, as a region, are on an inproving path.

If I were a young 20/21 year aspiring professional I would look at Ruddock & Booth and then at Delaney/Whiffin and think - you know what no contest in past achievement levels & current performance levels. Time for us Scarlets fans to look inward and get our own house in order. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 9:51am
Originally posted by Rob Hunt Rob Hunt wrote:

I agree with your comment at the start of the third paragraph, but I’m not sure that it would stop the Ospreys from parasitising the other region’ academies.

They are a region which seems to have stabilised it's issues off the field & are showing the same faith we did a few years ago in the youngsters. The fact they are signing young Welsh players from other regions is not parasitic. I'm sure if they were filling their squad with overseas players people would be in uproar on here. 




Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 11:04am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.
i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍
Leinster have signed Fardy and Gibson-Park in recent season so it’s not like they’re pinching pennies with their overseas signings. We obviously couldn’t do that because of our smaller budget, although I do agree with your general point that Leinster have spent big on their coaches to improve their players, rather than just buying new and better players.
Gibson-Park was a bit part player in Super Rugby. I doubt they paid big bucks for him 

Precisely Steff. There is some narrative that Leinster buy their success which is a little off the mark. Their investment over the past 5 years in overseas players has been way lower than ours & miniscule when compared with the top French teams.

Leinster have invested heavily in their coaching structure bringing in top level coaches who understand the requirements to win at the top level. Below that they have a great academy structure which prepares their young players to play the Leinster way and is totally geared to getting these players ready for the 1st team. In a phrase the system is totally joined up with a clear focus on the goals. Take one example - Ryan Baird. Within 18 months of making his debut he has seemlessly moved into the Ireland squad.

If the WRU were fit for purpose, which they clearly are not, they would be using the windfall monies to sit down with all regions and drastically improve their academy & coaching structures so that Welsh talent is not wasted and that it can be given every opportunity to flourish. Investing in capital projects for future revenue is a great idea but if a project is worth doing with good enough future income streams then it surely could come from business loans which are pretty cheap in the current climate leaving the windfall money available for the solving the very real problems which abound in regional rugby. 


I also agree wholeheartedly with GPR's final paragraph.  The CVC money is needed NOW to "drastically improve their academy & coaching structures so that Welsh talent is not wasted". Otherwise, young players will move - Bath, Bristol, Gloucester are all within easy reach - and why should English clubs get the benefit of their talent before Welsh ones?

Furthermore, whilst "investing in capital projects for future revenue is a great idea" the WRU seem to have become obsessed with turning themselves into a self sustaining venture capital business whose main focus is not rugby. Future income is all very well but with current uncertainties and the gap in funding/development between our Regions and England/Ireland/France, in five years all the Regions could be dead in the water as investors/supporters will be sick of lack of success. Buttress, for example, I've read is already sick of the WRU's cack-handedness and if he bails the Dragons will be gone sooner rather than later. It won't take much more to affect Cardiff, Ospreys or us.

Someone, has sold the WRU the idea, "this is how to make money", "this time next year we'll all be millionaires" - sound familiar.  The WRU are still the Welsh equivalent of Del & Rodney when it comes to managing the pro game.


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What's going on?


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:03pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍


Leinster had a little second row injury crisis one year and they just went and bought the best lock on the planet in the middle of the season - world cup winning Kiwi Brad Thorne. That was in March 2012, and they went on to win the Heineken Cup that year.

Anyone who thinks Leinster don't buy their way to trophies is deluded. Their player payroll is now above all English clubs, and most of the French clubs.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:15pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍


Leinster had a little second row injury crisis one year and they just went and bought the best lock on the planet in the middle of the season - world cup winning Kiwi Brad Thorne. That was in March 2012, and they went on to win the Heineken Cup that year.

Anyone who thinks Leinster don't buy their way to trophies is deluded. Their player payroll is now above all English clubs, and most of the French clubs.

You have plenty of anti Leinster form so the above comment does not surprise me. The Leinster success story is firmly built on Irish talent mostly from their local environs. The fact that the IRFU are a million years ahead of the WRU in their professionalism & so fund their provinces well and that Leinster attract average gates during normal seasons which are 100% more than any Welsh region will clearly lead to them having far better funding than any of our regions could dream of. If I were a Leinster supporter would I care - absolutely not; should we be trying to replicate what they have achieved - too right. 

Maybe we can add lack of funding to our already stated reasons for playing such garbage such as international call ups/injuries to so many front line player/refs are against us/Irish TMO's are against us. The list goes on and is frankly pitiful. 


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍


Leinster had a little second row injury crisis one year and they just went and bought the best lock on the planet in the middle of the season - world cup winning Kiwi Brad Thorne. That was in March 2012, and they went on to win the Heineken Cup that year.

Anyone who thinks Leinster don't buy their way to trophies is deluded. Their player payroll is now above all English clubs, and most of the French clubs.

Didn't they do something similar with Rocky Elsom? 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:27pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

If the market for top players is expensive, it is better to pay to increase the quality of coaches in your organisation.


i agree. Leinster have gone down this route rather than super star player recruitment. In saying that it worked for toloun and sarries!👍


Leinster had a little second row injury crisis one year and they just went and bought the best lock on the planet in the middle of the season - world cup winning Kiwi Brad Thorne. That was in March 2012, and they went on to win the Heineken Cup that year.

Anyone who thinks Leinster don't buy their way to trophies is deluded. Their player payroll is now above all English clubs, and most of the French clubs.

Didn't they do something similar with Rocky Elsom? 

Keep on digging bois bach - go back far enough & you may find the reasons why Leinster are top of the pile. They currently have far less overseas players invested in their squad than the Scarlets - fact. They, on the other hand, do heavily invest in top range coaching for first team & academy which we do not. Therefore the clue to the contrasting fortunes of both sides may well be staring us in the face. Don't think Brad or Rocky really have anything to do with it. 


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:33pm
It's not just about developing players, it's about retaining them which is a lot easier with the support that they get from the IRFU.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:37pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Keep on digging bois bach - go back far enough & you may find the reasons why Leinster are top of the pile. They currently have far less overseas players invested in their squad than the Scarlets - fact. They, on the other hand, do heavily invest in top range coaching for first team & academy which we do not. Therefore the clue to the contrasting fortunes of both sides may well be staring us in the face. Don't think Brad or Rocky really have anything to do with it. 


They are top of the pile because they spend the most money on players and coaches. There really is nothing more to it.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:38pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

It's not just about developing players, it's about retaining them which is a lot easier with the support that they get from the IRFU.

Yes of course it is. That should be one of the reasons why our regions/clubs should be brave enough and take on the WRU. The WRU are holding back the game in Wales. Their attitude is from the dark ages. Wales are winning so everything must be ok. Well it ain't & the sooner they are made to realise this the better. No regional professional rugby in Wales = bankruptcy for the WRU & players being selected for Wales from teams dotted all over Europe. 


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

It's not just about developing players, it's about retaining them which is a lot easier with the support that they get from the IRFU.


Exactly. They keep their best players. And their players that might be quite good. And the ones that are a level below that. They can afford to keep them.

Very few like Taighd Beirne escape the net. Where as there are hundreds of Wales players that the Welsh 4 have to let go because they can't afford to gamble on whether they'll be any good in 3 years time or not. So instead they spend the money on a solid overseas player they know will give them performance right away. This isn't rocket science bois.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Keep on digging bois bach - go back far enough & you may find the reasons why Leinster are top of the pile. They currently have far less overseas players invested in their squad than the Scarlets - fact. They, on the other hand, do heavily invest in top range coaching for first team & academy which we do not. Therefore the clue to the contrasting fortunes of both sides may well be staring us in the face. Don't think Brad or Rocky really have anything to do with it. 


They are top of the pile because they spend the most money on players and coaches. There really is nothing more to it.

What a load of nonsense. If your logic were true then Racing 92 would be unbeatable. Of course money is part of the solution but to suggest it is the be all and end all is totally missing the point. From your perspective the only way the Scarlets could become competitive is by making all of our competition have to be funded the same as us regardless of how successful each team is in attracting sponsors/supporters etc.

Fortunately we live in a free commercial World where enterprise and professionalism are rewarded. We, at the Scarlets, should look and learn from the best.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

What a load of nonsense. If your logic were true then Racing 92 would be unbeatable.


Why? Racing have an 11m Euro salary cap

Leinster have no salary cap

Quote Of course money is part of the solution but to suggest it is the be all and end all is totally missing the point. From your perspective the only way the Scarlets could become competitive is by making all of our competition have to be funded the same as us regardless of how successful each team is in attracting sponsors/supporters etc.


Well of course. Otherwise you have to apply the same logic to other sports and question why Middlesborough FC aren't winning the Premier League every year.

You're literally saying that rugby is some sort of excepetion to the very basis of professional sport - and that tenacity, consistency and a bunch of other cliches are the source of Leinster's success and not money and resources. Leinster just happen to be multiple European Cup Winners and Pro14 champions because ..................well just because they are really professional and train really well and have a good canteen??


Quote
Fortunately we live in a free commercial World where enterprise and professionalism are rewarded. We, at the Scarlets, should look and learn from the best.


So we need to spend about £3m more per year on world class coaches and keep all the youngsters that are leaving from doing so.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:10pm
We have more overseas players than leinster do so do all the other regions. If we look at it from the wru point of view  regions bringing back welsh players and improving coaching staff is a sound investment. At the end of the day what is in it for them if a region brings in capped nwq players on big wages? Not much if we are honest it’s not a cost effective investment for them. Clearly it is for us!


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:12pm
The WRU clearly don't give a stuff about us, so I don't see why we should give stuff about them.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:15pm
Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Which is why comments urging us to 'Learn from Leinster' are puzzling.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 

The hunt for LRZ's signature will be hugely competitive with the 4 regions, he is the type of player that youngsters aspire to be & whilst we don't tend to shift shirts like football clubs do, it wouldn't hurt to have him here from a merchandise point of view. 


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:31pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

It's not just about developing players, it's about retaining them which is a lot easier with the support that they get from the IRFU.

Yes of course it is. That should be one of the reasons why our regions/clubs should be brave enough and take on the WRU. The WRU are holding back the game in Wales. Their attitude is from the dark ages. Wales are winning so everything must be ok. Well it ain't & the sooner they are made to realise this the better. No regional professional rugby in Wales = bankruptcy for the WRU & players being selected for Wales from teams dotted all over Europe. 
ClapClapClapClap

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Which is why comments urging us to 'Learn from Leinster' are puzzling.
why wouldn’t we look to the top organisation in the league and see if we can learn from them?😳 we can also look at exeter the crusaders etc not just leinster


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Which is why comments urging us to 'Learn from Leinster' are puzzling.
why wouldn’t we look to the top organisation in the league and see if we can learn from them?😳 we can also look at exeter the crusaders etc not just leinster

Precisely RR. I am not suggesting that we can suddenly get £3m per annum ( which sounds a hell of a lot of money for coaches by the way when Eddie Jones is on £750k) but we could look to fund a coaching team of Robin McBryde & Dwayne Peel with the loss of Delaney, Whiffin & Flannagan plus a chunk more. The new rules about regions seeing more of their top players should count against Leinster's greater depth if you think about it.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Which is why comments urging us to 'Learn from Leinster' are puzzling.
why wouldn’t we look to the top organisation in the league and see if we can learn from them?😳 we can also look at exeter the crusaders etc not just leinster


Because if we want to copy Leinster's model, we would need the WRU to find another £15m - £20 a season to fund us and the other pro clubs. To do that they'd need to cut the costs down by shutting community clubs down, stop the ringfencing of community rugby, slash jobs within the Union etc.

Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to move some of our promising youngsters to the Ospreys, as they are short of good players in those positions.
Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to play certain players in certain matches. Having our best players rested for derbies etc.

And on it goes.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Which is why comments urging us to 'Learn from Leinster' are puzzling.
why wouldn’t we look to the top organisation in the league and see if we can learn from them?😳 we can also look at exeter the crusaders etc not just leinster


Because if we want to copy Leinster's model, we would need the WRU to find another £15m - £20 a season to fund us and the other pro clubs. To do that they'd need to cut the costs down by shutting community clubs down, stop the ringfencing of community rugby, slash jobs within the Union etc.

Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to move some of our promising youngsters to the Ospreys, as they are short of good players in those positions.
Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to play certain players in certain matches. Having our best players rested for derbies etc.

And on it goes.

Nobody is suggesting we copy the Leinster model - just that we follow some of their practices i.e. employing top quality coaching staff being the foremost. The sort of additional money per annum you suggest is not beyond a well run Union but we must be realistic. Its not, of course, just IRFU money but also money generated by the club themselves. Success is a huge driver of income. Regions need to stand alone from the WRU and the sooner we bite that particular bullet the better. Then we move away from dependence on crumbs from the WRU table and stand on our own two feet. 

If we want a decent model to follow in this respect look at Exeter. The Scarlet brand starts a long way down the road from where Exeter have come from - their journey has been relatively short but they have sure made progress. 


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Which is why comments urging us to 'Learn from Leinster' are puzzling.
why wouldn’t we look to the top organisation in the league and see if we can learn from them?😳 we can also look at exeter the crusaders etc not just leinster


Because if we want to copy Leinster's model, we would need the WRU to find another £15m - £20 a season to fund us and the other pro clubs. To do that they'd need to cut the costs down by shutting community clubs down, stop the ringfencing of community rugby, slash jobs within the Union etc.

Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to move some of our promising youngsters to the Ospreys, as they are short of good players in those positions.
Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to play certain players in certain matches. Having our best players rested for derbies etc.

And on it goes.
The answer is so obvious it's painful. It's remarkable how they haven't taken out money against the Principality Stadium. They aren't as skint as they claim

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Nobody is suggesting we copy the Leinster model - just that we follow some of their practices i.e. employing top quality coaching staff being the foremost. The sort of additional money per annum you suggest is not beyond a well run Union but we must be realistic.


We must have been through this a hundred times on this forum.

What would have made Graham Rowntree, Stephen Larkham, Erasmus, Mcbryde, lancaster etc come to the Scarlets and not to Leinster / Munster?

Quote Its not, of course, just IRFU money but also money generated by the club themselves.


Their money for coaches and players all derives from a central IRFU pot of 46m Euros.

Quote The Scarlet brand starts a long way down the road from where Exeter have come from - their journey has been relatively short but they have sure made progress. 


Exeter is a more reasonable model to compare to. But even then they have based their ability to spend right up to the English wage cap, on getting into fairly large debt, and having a big income generator (their hospitality facility).

The next few seasons will see the English reduce their wage cap to well below what the Irish are spending. Although how that is going to work I'm still none the wiser.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Which is why comments urging us to 'Learn from Leinster' are puzzling.
why wouldn’t we look to the top organisation in the league and see if we can learn from them?😳 we can also look at exeter the crusaders etc not just leinster


Because if we want to copy Leinster's model, we would need the WRU to find another £15m - £20 a season to fund us and the other pro clubs. To do that they'd need to cut the costs down by shutting community clubs down, stop the ringfencing of community rugby, slash jobs within the Union etc.

Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to move some of our promising youngsters to the Ospreys, as they are short of good players in those positions.
Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to play certain players in certain matches. Having our best players rested for derbies etc.

And on it goes.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Because we are tied to this lge, untill we get a b and i league and control our own finances we are stuffed sadly. I’d love us to get an extra million and bring in a top saffer lock and a kiwi 8. But the wru won’t gain anything from that so they won’t fund it.  They may help us if we go for the likes of toby f or lrz etc 


Which is why comments urging us to 'Learn from Leinster' are puzzling.
why wouldn’t we look to the top organisation in the league and see if we can learn from them?😳 we can also look at exeter the crusaders etc not just leinster


Because if we want to copy Leinster's model, we would need the WRU to find another £15m - £20 a season to fund us and the other pro clubs. To do that they'd need to cut the costs down by shutting community clubs down, stop the ringfencing of community rugby, slash jobs within the Union etc.

Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to move some of our promising youngsters to the Ospreys, as they are short of good players in those positions.
Then we'd have to be happy with the WRU forcing us to play certain players in certain matches. Having our best players rested for derbies etc.

And on it goes.
meant to say we don't need the WRU for that.Wink


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 5:54pm
Sometimes the WRU have less sense than is spouted on here after a heavy defeat, or triumphant success, and much alcohol has been consumed.

If Kid A could become something at least as powerful as FD of the WRU, it would be a huge step in the right direction.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Sometimes the WRU have less sense than is spouted on here after a heavy defeat, or triumphant success, and much alcohol has been consumed.

If Kid A could become something at least as powerful as FD of the WRU, it would be a huge step in the right direction.


Ha. I wouldn't want the frustration of that job. The Union is broken. Because the clubs will never vote themselves out. So it won't change. It's Putinesque.

As it is, the treasurers of amateur clubs look after the interests of 4 elite pro clubs. That boggles my mind. Ex Teachers are in control of rugby in Wales. Ex hedge fund managers are in control of rugby in England. That says it all.



Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 07 April 2021 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Sometimes the WRU have less sense than is spouted on here after a heavy defeat, or triumphant success, and much alcohol has been consumed.

If Kid A could become something at least as powerful as FD of the WRU, it would be a huge step in the right direction.


Ha. I wouldn't want the frustration of that job. The Union is broken. Because the clubs will never vote themselves out. So it won't change. It's Putinesque.

As it is, the treasurers of amateur clubs look after the interests of 4 elite pro clubs. That boggles my mind. Ex Teachers are in control of rugby in Wales. Ex hedge fund managers are in control of rugby in England. That says it all.

Don’t give up so soon. 

Your clarity of thought and concise presentation of facts marks you out as suitable for high(er) office. I’ve no idea what your current role is, that said. Hopefully, it’s not underpaid and under appreciated.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 08 April 2021 at 7:46am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Sometimes the WRU have less sense than is spouted on here after a heavy defeat, or triumphant success, and much alcohol has been consumed.

If Kid A could become something at least as powerful as FD of the WRU, it would be a huge step in the right direction.


Ha. I wouldn't want the frustration of that job. The Union is broken. Because the clubs will never vote themselves out. So it won't change. It's Putinesque.

As it is, the treasurers of amateur clubs look after the interests of 4 elite pro clubs. That boggles my mind. Ex Teachers are in control of rugby in Wales. Ex hedge fund managers are in control of rugby in England. That says it all.


Totally agree Kid A. The professional clubs in Wales need to stand up to the WRU and take control. 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 18 April 2021 at 9:14am
Interesting article in WOL penned by Nigel Walker now on the Cardiff board. Some real common sense being spoken about the dire situation facing the regions financially & the nonsense which is the WRU. It appears that Cardiff can survive until the summer. His words confirm what many on this forum have said over the past months/years. If professional rugby is going to survive into the future in Wales then people with vision and ability need to be appointed to the WRU.

One thing is certain it will not survive if things don't change. Short sighted, head in the sand thinking - Wales are doing well so why change things - will eventually lead to the failure of the regions, players flouting the 60 cap rule and moving to clubs where they can be successful eventually leading to the demise of the International team. Why should that worry the WRU - they will have a city centre hotel & a roof walk - wow!!!!!!!




Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 18 April 2021 at 10:53am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Interesting article in WOL penned by Nigel Walker now on the Cardiff board. Some real common sense being spoken about the dire situation facing the regions financially & the nonsense which is the WRU. It appears that Cardiff can survive until the summer. His words confirm what many on this forum have said over the past months/years. If professional rugby is going to survive into the future in Wales then people with vision and ability need to be appointed to the WRU.

One thing is certain it will not survive if things don't change. Short sighted, head in the sand thinking - Wales are doing well so why change things - will eventually lead to the failure of the regions, players flouting the 60 cap rule and moving to clubs where they can be successful eventually leading to the demise of the International team. Why should that worry the WRU - they will have a city centre hotel & a roof walk - wow!!!!!!!


City centre hotel and roof walk.

Forget investing in maintenance on the foundations, let’s put it into a vanity project.



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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 18 April 2021 at 11:38am
We need extra funding but it’s like i said the wru are going to put conditions on any more funding being released.  Signing two or three big name nwq would help the regions but it’s going to do nothing to help the national team. The wru will want it spent on either improved coaching , academy facilities or on bringing wq players into welsh sides. Id quite like to see toby f and lrz in scarlet😀


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 18 April 2021 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

We need extra funding but it’s like i said the wru are going to put conditions on any more funding being released.  Signing two or three big name nwq would help the regions but it’s going to do nothing to help the national team. The wru will want it spent on either improved coaching , academy facilities or on bringing wq players into welsh sides. Id quite like to see toby f and lrz in scarlet😀

Certainly we should embrace any conditions - lets have the money. Improve our coaching at senior & academy levels. Lets get all the Welsh qualified players back in Wales - Sheedy, Lloyd, LRZ, Reffell, Nott, Dan Thomas, Faletau, Young, Biggar, Aled etc the list goes on. 


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 18 April 2021 at 12:32pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Interesting article in WOL penned by Nigel Walker now on the Cardiff board. Some real common sense being spoken about the dire situation facing the regions financially & the nonsense which is the WRU. It appears that Cardiff can survive until the summer. His words confirm what many on this forum have said over the past months/years. If professional rugby is going to survive into the future in Wales then people with vision and ability need to be appointed to the WRU.

One thing is certain it will not survive if things don't change. Short sighted, head in the sand thinking - Wales are doing well so why change things - will eventually lead to the failure of the regions, players flouting the 60 cap rule and moving to clubs where they can be successful eventually leading to the demise of the International team. Why should that worry the WRU - they will have a city centre hotel & a roof walk - wow!!!!!!!


the obvious answer if your the WRU is to cut the 4 mouths you feed down to 2 and you still get the bulk of your money to waste on what you want which is not good for regions or fans.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 19 April 2021 at 1:30am
I just ask how many press releases or other public comments have been announced since the new guy took over? I struggle 😉

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"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 19 April 2021 at 6:32am
i see that some of the bigger clubs in football are breaking away from eufa and forming a european super league which is rattling eufa's cage,i know we can't form a league but some action needs to be taken in some form ,we need to act now because we won't be here in 5 years in current form if we don't.


Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 19 April 2021 at 10:18am
its absolutely shambolic what the WRU are doing to welsh rugby, its not just the pro teams and lack of funding. they seem to think that hotels and roof climbing will bring in money to keep the union going, putting more games on the fixture list but no care about players and regions.
if there are no players coming through the pro teams and the academies we may as well shut up shop now.
it is a matter of time before there is no professional rugby left in wales. 


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Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 April 2021 at 2:54pm
The moment was squandered when Wales were playing poorly in 2016/17 and we started doing well, 2017-18.

That was the only time regional rugby showed it could get bums on seats and eyes on TVs. 

Once we started going downhill and Wales performed well in 2019 the WRU didn’t have to face any tough questions or make any tough decisions.

For years people have warned things like the 4th Autumn test were devaluing the regional game (and cheapening the International game). Yes it brought in revenue but it was in-effect a marshmallow test for the WRU. 

The international game is the premium product which needs to be scarce. 

The regional game is the bread and butter product which needs support. 

WRU patched over that by playing as many Wales games as possible so that the average rugby fan only had to follow team Wales. 

Then they blame the regions for not having enough support but they were constantly taking the marshmellow. 

Our success in 2017/18 was the chance to rectify that but it’s gone now. 

(Investments in a hotel is not a bad thing in my opinion - but it certainly shows you’re not confident in your own business/product! A bit like a government buying Bitcoin!)

Fundamentally rugby is a top-down sport in Wales now. Like any top down system it is great if it goes well but if those at the top start making consecutive bad decisions it leaves the whole structure vulnerable to collapse.


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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 April 2021 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

i see that some of the bigger clubs in football are breaking away from eufa and forming a european super league which is rattling eufa's cage,i know we can't form a league but some action needs to be taken in some form ,we need to act now because we won't be here in 5 years in current form if we don't.

Surely the only sensible “break away” League would be a British & Irish league, or at least the 4 welsh clubs joining the English structure. 

The Irish gain the most from the existing Pro14 league and the Welsh miss out the most. 

Playing Bristol, Gloucester, Bath, Worcester every few weeks would be an extra 500 bums on seats and a better atmosphere at regional level.

After all, the reason Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport were accepted to play in the English leagues was because they had massive fan bases filling terraces!

Without fans your club is nothing. 


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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 19 April 2021 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

i see that some of the bigger clubs in football are breaking away from eufa and forming a european super league which is rattling eufa's cage,i know we can't form a league but some action needs to be taken in some form ,we need to act now because we won't be here in 5 years in current form if we don't.

Surely the only sensible “break away” League would be a British & Irish league, or at least the 4 welsh clubs joining the English structure. 

The Irish gain the most from the existing Pro14 league and the Welsh miss out the most. 

Playing Bristol, Gloucester, Bath, Worcester every few weeks would be an extra 500 bums on seats and a better atmosphere at regional level.

After all, the reason Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport were accepted to play in the English leagues was because they had massive fan bases filling terraces!

Without fans your club is nothing. 
agree totally but that isn't going to happen,i'm talking about withholding our welsh players from the 4 regions or something similar until they play ball because as it is we will be down to east and west so that the union can keep having big bucks and all the perks that go with it.


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 April 2021 at 3:38pm
Mmm yeah. 

I’d return to the point earlier posters were making about Leinster. Leinster’s ability to hold onto top quality Internationals is aided by the Irish governments “sportsperson relief” which means the top rate tax is lower for players who play 10 years in Ireland.

If Wales had something like this it would mean the 4 pro clubs could keep the players like “Sheedy, Lloyd, LRZ, Reffell, Nott, Dan Thomas, Faletau, Young, Biggar, Aled etc the list goes on.”

Ireland have only really “lost” Zebo, Ryan and Sexton to France for a couple of years (Bierne was basically a Leinster reject when he came here) because of that tax. All the other investments they get to make in academies and coaches are because they can pay their players really competitively because of a tax loophole.

The 60 cap rule does a pretty good job at keeping some players in Wales. But clearly not as good a job as basically paying 20% tax on your 300k per year.


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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 April 2021 at 3:42pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

i see that some of the bigger clubs in football are breaking away from eufa and forming a european super league which is rattling eufa's cage,i know we can't form a league but some action needs to be taken in some form ,we need to act now because we won't be here in 5 years in current form if we don't.

Surely the only sensible “break away” League would be a British & Irish league, or at least the 4 welsh clubs joining the English structure. 

The Irish gain the most from the existing Pro14 league and the Welsh miss out the most. 

Playing Bristol, Gloucester, Bath, Worcester every few weeks would be an extra 500 bums on seats and a better atmosphere at regional level.

After all, the reason Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham and Newport were accepted to play in the English leagues was because they had massive fan bases filling terraces!

Without fans your club is nothing. 
agree totally but that isn't going to happen,i'm talking about withholding our welsh players from the 4 regions or something similar until they play ball because as it is we will be down to east and west so that the union can keep having big bucks and all the perks that go with it.

I share your attitude, but realistically to 90% of the rugby public something like this would look like us / the regions biting the hand that feeds them. 

Outside Ken and AWJ most of the players wouldn’t do it either. Ken 


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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: hoppy
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 8:04pm

More Anglo-Welsh matches, a professional team in north Wales, an end to the 60 cap rule and a change in WRU financial policy.

These are just some of the calls to emerge from the findings of our Big Welsh Rugby Survey.

We posed a series of questions about the state of the domestic game in Wales and now readers have had their say.

Some 1,780 people responded to the WalesOnline survey and the results are intriguing.

One of the most overwhelming outcomes was that fans want to see more Anglo-Welsh matches, with 87 per cent in favour.

Tied in with that, a British & Irish League has come out on top as the preferred tournament for Welsh pro teams to compete in.

The jury remains out on the four South Africa Super sides joining an expanded PRO16, with that vote split pretty much down the middle.

As for the thorny question of WRU financial strategy, the views of the public are pretty clear.

Some 84 per cent feel the WRU should repay the £20m bank loan they took out to keep the pro game afloat amid the Covid pandemic, rather than the regions, who are actually having to pay it back.

There is also a strong majority (74 per cent) calling for payments from the WRU to the pro teams to be increased from normal levels.

For context, the original plan was for the regions to receive £26m this season. That was cut to £3m due to the pandemic.

Sign up to Simon Thomas' newsletter briefing

This article was first published in Simon Thomas' newsletter briefing, sent straight to our rugby newsletter subscribers every Wednesday.

To receive Simon's weekly briefing and the latest rugby news, analysis and interviews - sent straight to your inbox daily for free - you can  https://www.walesonline.co.uk/newsletter-preference-centre/" rel="nofollow - sign up to WalesOnline's rugby newsletter here.

As for the £51m of CVC Six Nations money, only three per cent support the WRU’s policy of spending all of it on capital projects, such as property development, a stadium roof walk or a venture into the brewing market.

There are also interesting findings on the structure of the game in Wales.

Opinion is divided and the margins are close, but the preferences that come out on top are sticking at four pro teams and for them to take the form of clubs.

But there is also a strong call for the re-drawing of the regional map (69 per cent) and a majority (57 per cent) in favour of establishing a professional team in north Wales.

There is a clear winner in terms of what the stepping stone to the pro game should be, with the Welsh Premiership (58 per cent) getting the nod ahead of either Regional A or U23 teams.



Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 8:13pm
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-chief-steve-phillips-hits-20487666.amp?__twitter_impression=true%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-chief-steve-phillips-hits-20487666.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Very worrying for the regions. Totally wrong person in charge of wru. For the regions/clubs.



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Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by turkishrebel turkishrebel wrote:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-chief-steve-phillips-hits-20487666.amp?__twitter_impression=true%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wru-chief-steve-phillips-hits-20487666.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Very worrying for the regions. Totally wrong person in charge of wru. For the regions/clubs.

Wow he comes across as a right arse


Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 8:26pm
Seriously worried how the regions/clubs are going to survive. Rather put the cvc money into the hotel.



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Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 8:38pm
the brewing bit might be helpful as they could practise organising a piss up there.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 8:40pm
Originally posted by turkishrebel turkishrebel wrote:

Seriously worried how the regions/clubs are going to survive. Rather put the cvc money into the hotel.

the regions have to get together and Strike even if it means a season playing against each other,we cannot continue as it is,Angry


Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 9:06pm
Agree Nige, can't see what else the teams can do.
He doesn't want to help the clubs, just want to get funds in for their great committees. 
All I can see is near civil war in Welsh Rugby. Just very sad it's an Amman valley person in charge. 


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Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 9:26pm
He came across awfully in that interview. Clearly has no interest in making the regions successful. As I’ve said before in this topic I’ve no problem with them investing in capital projects if it will increase future income, but if it’s sound business and they want to do that they should borrow the money themselves and pay for it that way. If the business plan adds up it should be no problem; the projects should not be taking rugby money away from the regions. Although I have no confidence in him let’s hope that they can refinance this loan, or it will be a hard 5 years trying to repay the debt for all the regions and will cause Welsh rugby - including the national team - immense damage.


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 28 April 2021 at 9:46pm
Without improvement in the regions, welsh rugby is only ever two bad 6 nations finishes from collapse. A really fragile ecosystem. 

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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 8:38am
Until we get a serious professional running Welsh rugby we are doomed. We've gone from a failed B&Q executive to a bean counter with as much foresight & charisma as my left welly!!!! To think he went to the same school as I enjoyed many years ago only makes it worse. 


Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 8:51am
Same School as well GPR Amman Valley Comprehensive. 
just dont want to associate with such a bean counter. 
i just feel totally totally deflated after his just flippant replies. pro rugby is a gonner with this guy in charge


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Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet!


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 9:46am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by turkishrebel turkishrebel wrote:

Seriously worried how the regions/clubs are going to survive. Rather put the cvc money into the hotel.


the regions have to get together and Strike even if it means a season playing against each other,we cannot continue as it is,Angry


We need another war.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 10:39am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by turkishrebel turkishrebel wrote:

Seriously worried how the regions/clubs are going to survive. Rather put the cvc money into the hotel.


the regions have to get together and Strike even if it means a season playing against each other,we cannot continue as it is,Angry


We need another war.

Hear hear.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 11:32am
The joint supporters group are meeting with the WRU tonight, I hope they give them hell. Not that the WRU will in any way take any notice.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 2:23pm
If the WRU see that generating income outside the core rugby as a business strategy they are dipping into a new commercial business so I hope they get it right. The hotel is a big investment and must make money all year round. It sounds sensible but let’s see what happens! It still doesn’t address the club and regional shortcomings though. I hope that they have considered all these matters on zoom during lockdown! 🙏


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 3:07pm
What a snake. He says:

"Accepting that part of this is loan, the regional game in Wales has had around £33m this year.

Previous historical funding would have been around £20m."

Apparently that £33m is:

£3m from the WRU.
£20m from NatWest
£10.8m from the Welsh Government



Posted By: Mundoscarlet
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 5:13pm
Well.simon only mentioned the wru 3 Mill and the 20 million loan.once again we have a blatant lier in charge of the wru


Posted By: Mundoscarlet
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 5:14pm
Yet each round side gets 21 million and nothing to pay back.i think it's time we actually spoke to the heads of the English prem and asked them for some support in this matter.hints and tips etc as we can't go on in this way


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 7:05pm
I wasn’t surprised to hear this coming from the WRU.  They have always bitten the hand that feeds them, they will jump into bed with anyone for money, but refuse to pass that money down to the regions who provide them with the players for the national team.
Successive management have done the same throughout the professional era.
They have left the regions to fund themselves whilst still taking our best players for most of the season, and in this most difficult of seasons without payment (as we are led to believe).
The WRU needs a complete overall but that will never happen as it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas and to be honest if I was a turkey. I’d have to think twice about it.
The premiership teams (under their umbrella) would never put up with this treatment from the ERU so the regions need to stand up to these buffoons.


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 7:24pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

If the WRU see that generating income outside the core rugby as a business strategy they are dipping into a new commercial business so I hope they get it right. The hotel is a big investment and must make money all year round. It sounds sensible but let’s see what happens! It still doesn’t address the club and regional shortcomings though. I hope that they have considered all these matters on zoom during lockdown! 🙏
It is not the governing body’s role to spend money that should be going to the business of promoting the sport; to providing professionals with the best preparation to make, the cash cow that is, the national side successful.

If it’s not successful, it all come tumbling down.

You don’t ignore the maintenance of your building fabric if you want to remain standing.

A governing body can only invest surplus funds in fantasy, nice to have, other streams or ventures.

Dereliction of duty perhaps. I guess it all depends on the terms of reference, or whatever the document is.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 7:42pm
This is why Unions should be nowhere near the domestic game. People can point fingers about the English league and their cap etc. But at least they are in control of their future, with any broadcast deal, with any CVC money etc.

Unfortunately it has come to the point in Wales (again) where something needs to be taken away from the WRU in order for them to see they are biting the hand that feeds then.

My biggest worry is that the 4 clubs don't have the backbone to do it.


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

If the WRU see that generating income outside the core rugby as a business strategy they are dipping into a new commercial business so I hope they get it right. The hotel is a big investment and must make money all year round. It sounds sensible but let’s see what happens! It still doesn’t address the club and regional shortcomings though. I hope that they have considered all these matters on zoom during lockdown! 🙏
It is not the governing body’s role to spend money that should be going to the business of promoting the sport; to providing professionals with the best preparation to make, the cash cow that is, the national side successful.

If it’s not successful, it all come tumbling down.

You don’t ignore the maintenance of your building fabric if you want to remain standing.

A governing body can only invest surplus funds in fantasy, nice to have, other streams or ventures.

Dereliction of duty perhaps. I guess it all depends on the terms of reference, or whatever the document is.
 

It’s certainly high risk! I feel nervous and the Commercial  team charged with developing this hotel really must get it right as , like you say EO , if it fails the investment could tumble down. Guts or stupidity from the WRU? We shall find out. 


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"I'd rather have been a judge than a miner.Being a miner,as soon as you are too old and tired and sick and stupid to do the job properly,you have to go.The very opposite applies with judges!"P.Cook


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 29 April 2021 at 8:11pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

If the WRU see that generating income outside the core rugby as a business strategy they are dipping into a new commercial business so I hope they get it right. The hotel is a big investment and must make money all year round. It sounds sensible but let’s see what happens! It still doesn’t address the club and regional shortcomings though. I hope that they have considered all these matters on zoom during lockdown! 🙏
It is not the governing body’s role to spend money that should be going to the business of promoting the sport; to providing professionals with the best preparation to make, the cash cow that is, the national side successful.

If it’s not successful, it all come tumbling down.

You don’t ignore the maintenance of your building fabric if you want to remain standing.

A governing body can only invest surplus funds in fantasy, nice to have, other streams or ventures.

Dereliction of duty perhaps. I guess it all depends on the terms of reference, or whatever the document is.
Nero, violin, capital city being remade by the WRU

It’s certainly high risk! I feel nervous and the Commercial  team charged with developing this hotel really must get it right as , like you say EO , if it fails the investment could tumble down. Guts or stupidity from the WRU? We shall find out. 


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 30 April 2021 at 10:15am
I've tried to actually find if the WRU are outside of their mandate to invest funds directed through them to activities outside rugby. It's a bit blurred/grey tbh.

So it's a morality question in essence. As a governing body of a sport in a country, re-directing capital to investments outside your business scope and signature space is pretty unique.

The only question that remains is do the Regions leadership (excluding the Dragons) and the PRB have the drive/credentials/support/funding to step outside the governance and break away.





Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 30 April 2021 at 10:17am
Good post Wil, I guess time will tell if the regions have the minerals to do anything about it.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 30 April 2021 at 10:44am
It's not great though is it....years of strife in Welsh rugby, seems never ending.

It must overshadow the product when you look through the lens of any type of investor.

I'm whining here.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 30 April 2021 at 11:13am
Grass roots want more money the womens game want more money the semi pro game wants more money the pro game wants more money.  Investing in hotels etc seems less of a priorty to me. Hasn’t the hospitality had their worst year ever? The wru are going to come along in a competitve mArket place with zero experience in that field and make a fortune? 😂😂👍
 I remain to be convinced for me id put money into the regions for welsh players or nwq project players and into school and age group rugby. 


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 30 April 2021 at 11:19am
What are the other nations doing with the CVC windfall?  Are they distributing it to the clubs and Regions or investing in vanity projects like the WRU.?  

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Keep the faith


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 30 April 2021 at 11:37am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

What are the other nations doing with the CVC windfall?  Are they distributing it to the clubs and Regions or investing in vanity projects like the WRU.?  
i don’t think the others are opening up hotels and the likes!



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