Print Page | Close Window

Boris Johnson

Printed From: Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets
Category: SOCIAL
Forum Name: CHAT BOARD
Forum Description: No topics, just chat
URL: https://www.scarletfever.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46308
Printed Date: 25 June 2022 at 9:17am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Boris Johnson
Posted By: aber-fan
Subject: Boris Johnson
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 7:35am
I thought it was a bit odd that there is a 'Keir Starmer' thread, but not one on Johnson, so here it is.

I looked briefly at comments on the Starmer thread just now, and can see that many were (rightly) impressed by the beating he gave Johnson at PMQs recently... however, the public memory is short, so I thought it might be of use to have a list of what Johnson has been up to... this is not complete by any means, but is a good summary of a lot of his 'doings', from a piece in yesterday's Guardian:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/30/scandal-charge-sheet-johnson-wallpaper-lying" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/apr/30/scandal-charge-sheet-johnson-wallpaper-lying

Yes, it’s a real scandal. Despite the apparent absurdity of a Westminster village obsessing over soft furnishings and the precise class connotations of the John Lewis brand, there is a hard offence underneath all those cushions and throws. By refusing to tell us who first paid for the refurbishment of his Downing Street flat, Boris Johnson is denying us – his boss – the right to know who he owes and what hold they might have on him.

Offence is the right word because, even before the Electoral Commission determines whether the law on political funding was broken, Johnson’s failure to come clean may well be, by itself, a breach of the ministerial code. That bars not only actual conflicts of interest between ministers’ “public duties and their private interests” but even the perception of such conflicts. In refusing to tell us who first paid that bill for overpriced wallpaper, or to give full details of who paid for his December 2019 holiday in Mustique, Johnson has offended the public trust.


So yes, this is a scandal. But do you know what else is a scandal? That while Johnson was racking up an estimated £200,000 on home decor, his government was pushing through a post-Grenfell fire safety bill that threatens ordinary leaseholders with financial ruin, saddling them with the cost of ridding their homes of potentially lethal cladding and other hazards: one woman is facing a bill of £70,000 to make her one-bedroom flat in Bristol safe. That is a scandal.

Or that by breaking his 2019 manifesto pledge and slashing the UK’s aid budget, Johnson has cut our contribution to the UN effort on HIV/Aids and to lifesaving water projects by 80%, and to the UN family planning programme by even more – money that could have prevented maternal and child deaths in the world’s poorest countries. That, too, is a scandal.

A coronavirus death toll of 127,500 that remains the highest in Europe, alongside the deepest economic slump in the G7. The mistake Johnson made three times over in 2020, delaying lockdowns in March, September and the following winter. The seeding of Covid in nursing homes. The decision to keep the borders open even during the height of lockdown, as smart as putting a double bolt and extra chain on the front door while leaving the back door swinging wide open. Johnson’s absence from the first five Cobra meetings on Covid, preferring to flick through swatches at his weekend home at Chequers. They’re all scandals.

The VIP lane for ministers’ pals when the PPE contracts were being doled out, when so many politicians’ chums looked at Covid and saw a commercial opportunity. The £276m contract that went to P14 Medical, run by a Tory donor, or the £160m deal with Meller Designs, also run by a Tory donor, both revealed just this week. The staggering sum of £37bn committed to a test-and-trace programme that never really worked. Johnson’s support for Dominic Cummings, even as he torched the most important public health policy in a century and insulted the country’s intelligence with a tall story about an eye test on wheels. Every one a scandal.

The failure to sack Robert Jenrick, even after he rushed through an “unlawful” planning decision that would save Richard Desmond, yet another Tory donor, £45m in local taxes. The failure to sack Priti Patel, even after she’d been found to have broken the ministerial code. The failure to sack Gavin Williamson, even after he’d presided over an exams fiasco that threatened to damage the life chances of tens of thousands of young people. The appointment of Gavin Williamson, not two months after he’d been fired by Theresa May for leaking sensitive information from the national security council. That, too, is a scandal.

Johnson’s Brexit protocol that put a border down the Irish sea, even after he’d vowed never to put a border down the Irish sea, thereby imperilling a union he swore blind he would protect. His proposal of an internal market bill that proudly declared its intention to break international law, prompting the UK’s top legal civil servant to quit – one of a disturbing number of mandarins driven to resignation on Johnson’s watch.

His illegal suspension of parliament, overturned as a violation of fundamental democratic practice by unanimous verdict of the supreme court. The lies that led to that moment: the £350m on the side of the bus or the scare story that Turkey was poised to join the EU and that Britain would be powerless to stop it. Siding with Vladimir Putin to suggest that the EU had provoked the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Scandals, all.

The blame he bears for wrongly saying, when foreign secretary, that Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe had been training journalists in Iran, further condemning a woman who this week was sentenced to yet another year as a prisoner in that country. His quip about clearing away “dead bodies” in Sirte, Libya, a phrase that makes all too plausible the multiply-sourced claim that he told a Downing Street meeting on Covid he was happy to let the virus rip and “let the bodies pile high” rather than impose another lockdown.

His record as mayor, spaffing Londoners’ money up the wall on failed vanity projects that were either unused or unworkable, yet somehow managing to boost the entrepreneurial efforts of his lover, Jennifer Arcuri, cosy in her very own VIP lane with Johnson as the recipient of £126,000 in public money. That, too, is a scandal.

His racist musings about a “half-Kenyan” Barack Obama, his casting of Muslim women as “bank robbers” and “letterboxes”, and Africans as “piccaninnies” with “watermelon smiles”. His running of a Spectator editorial that falsely accused “drunken fans” of causing the Hillsborough calamity, and suggesting that the people of Liverpool wallow in “vicarious victimhood”. His firings from the Tory frontbench and the Times newspaper, both times for lying.

They’re all scandals. So is a system that makes the prime minister the ultimate arbiter of the very code that he has broken, so that Johnson decides when and whether to investigate himself, making him judge and jury in his own case. Not much better is an opposition party that was walloped by him in 2019 and struggles to lay a glove on him now.

Or maybe the real scandal lies with us, the electorate, still seduced by a tousled-hair rebel shtick and faux bonhomie that should have palled years ago. Americans got rid of their lying, self-serving, scandal-plagued charlatan 100 days ago. They did it at the first possible opportunity. Next week, polls suggest we’re poised to give ours a partial thumbs-up at the ballot box. For allowing this shameless man to keep riding high, some of the shame is on us.

Jonathan Freedland is a Guardian columnist


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)



Replies:
Posted By: trident
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 9:12am
ClapClap


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 1:35pm
Guardian


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 1:50pm
Hes useless but hell win the next election with ease if he still in place by then


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 3:31pm
Can I recommend the excellent 'Failure of state', recently published, a blow by blow account of the Covid pandemic and the multiple failures of the Johnson government and the lies they told to try and cover their errors.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 8:53pm
The vaccine is going ok. 


Posted By: SVD
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 9:10pm
Can I also recommend, ‘The Assault on Truth: Boris Johnson, Donald Trump and the Emergence of a New Moral Barbarism’ by Peter Oborne?


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 9:22pm
I clicked on this topic and the advert was entitled “A Resource You Can Trust”.

IRONY WRIT LARGE


-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 01 May 2021 at 10:16pm
Originally posted by SVD SVD wrote:

Can I also recommend, ‘The Assault on Truth: Boris Johnson, Donald Trump and the Emergence of a New Moral Barbarism’ by Peter Oborne?

An excellent read, finished it a few weeks ago. 

Another one people may like to try is Merchants of Doubt, in the same vein, about how lies are spread by multinationals amongst others.


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 10:03am
Can I recommend the madness of crowds


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 10:45am
The guardian correspondent is correct when he said at the end of the article that we are part of the problem with Boris.  A huge percentage of the electorate have fallen for his charms and promises (many of which have been proven to be lies such as no border in the Irish Sea, no issues with importing/ exporting, businesses being better off after brexit etc) and given him and the Tory party a free pass to change whatever policies they want to, by electing so many of them into Westminster, allowing them to vote any changes they want through parliament.
There are a lot of similarities between Boris and Trump and look what’s happened in the USA in the past 4 years.  Thankfully enough people in the USA saw sense and did what was needed for the greater good of the citizens of the USA and for the rest of the world and got shot of him at the first opportunity.
Boris is a born liar, he allegedly lost his last 2 jobs prior to leading the brexit campaign (and again based on what appears to be yet more falsehoods) so why should anyone believe anything he says anymore.
I could understand the notion of voting in someone who doesn’t fit your usual Tory Party leader norms, as labour did with Corbin but observing what happened in the USA and seeing the disastrous mess left by Corbin’s legacy, should surely be enough of a warning to the British electorate moving forward.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Boris is a born liar, he allegedly lost his last 2 jobs prior to leading the brexit campaign (and again based on what appears to be yet more falsehoods) so why should anyone believe anything he says anymore.

Well thank god he’s a liar. He wouldn’t be a very good politician otherwise. 


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 12:13pm
The British electoral system of first past the post fails to give a voice to those who didn't vote for Boris (Tory).  In the last election just over two thirds of those eligible to vote actually did vote.  Of those that did vote 55% did not vote Tory.  So we are left with the majority of voters in the country being disenfranchised.  Until our voting system is modernised we will be stuck in the last century and ruled by an undemocratic system.  Some democracy eh?

-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The British electoral system of first past the post fails to give a voice to those who didn't vote for Boris (Tory).  In the last election just over two thirds of those eligible to vote actually did vote.  Of those that did vote 55% did not vote Tory.  So we are left with the majority of voters in the country being disenfranchised.  Until our voting system is modernised we will be stuck in the last century and ruled by an undemocratic system.  Some democracy eh?

Proportional representation has to come before we can get a fairer democracy. 


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 2:18pm
Despite the endless mistakes ,errors, falsehoods, backhanders ,affairs , dodgy contracts, vanity projects etc Bojo may yet survive to the next election. Look at how blair survived? Despite the Iraq war, the deregulated markets, the corrupt banks, the millennium dome, the endless stealth taxes on the working classes etc The economy seemed strong so they kept backing him

The majority of voters probably still look at the big results, jobs, the economy the nhs , brexit and covid. Boris started badly on most of these issues. In particular the NHS where we ended up with 3 times fewer nhs beds than germany during the pandemic, also nurses and doctor numbers were less than half germanys'

But a recovery may be around the corner and may yet save his bacon at least till the next election. The covid crisis is number 1 issue, we started disastrously and irresponsibly, with the failure to protect the oaps in care homes and the failure to close borders and the ppe contracts etc We had the worst death rates in the world. 

But somehow we seem to be through the worst of it and seem to be following the usual british pathway of start terribly and finishing strongly. We have the 5th highest covid testing per head in the world, top 5 vaccines per head in the world. There are 14 countries now with worse death rates as the cases ,deaths and hospitalizations are down to their lowest in 9 months. Their furlough scheme was generally considered competent, considering the extraordinary circumstances. 

The unemployment rate is 4.9% a lot lower than the EU 8.1% or usa 6.1% so room for a small amount of optimism there.Brexit re-emerge and when things calm down we can really analyse the costs and benefits....But even there the way the eu have totally mismanaged the pandemic plays into bojos hands. He will milk that at the next election. 

Im certain many more corrupt covid contracts, cover ups and huge mistakes and corruption will keep emerging over time and will surely see the end of him eventually and his critics will dance on his grave. But people dont have the stomach for disruption and revolution atm so his departure  may still be a few years away.












-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 4:41pm
My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
No where near as corrupted as a labour government who took us to an illegal war


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 02 May 2021 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

I cant argue with that that was the worse policy decision ever made by a UK govt, certainly in my lifetime and the reason millions never voted labour since, until those who voted in favor have left parliament. Trouble is millions of disillusioned labour voters will never vote tory either , so we end up with a massive vaccuum of nomadic voters....This is the main reason the snp took over scotland imo 


 

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
No where near as corrupted as a labour government who took us to an illegal war


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 03 May 2021 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
No where near as corrupted as a labour government who took us to an illegal war

Hold on, you mean the conservative AND Labour are liars? I never knew that. It’s almost as if they’re all as bad as each other and just depends which side of the political spectrum your on that dictates if they’re scum or ok. 


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 03 May 2021 at 4:52pm
I feel that last night's "final" episode of "Line of duty" was an anti-climax and the revelation of "Mr Big", was not convincing to say the least,so there is plenty of scope for follow up series, leading to the real Mr Big, so corrupt that he can easily pull all the complicated strings that we've seen so far.
My guess is that it goes all the way to the top and that in a couple of series time, Boris will be revealed as the arch criminal, maybe after an incredible car/tank chase and shoot-out between MI5 and MI6. Well it wouldn't be much more far-fetched than some of the BBC's current political coverage.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 7:44am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

My thoughts are well-known but I'd say there's a dangerous overlap of political and media interests this has highlighted. Thorough investigative unbiased journalism is needed to hold governments and MPs to account, because they will not do it themselves. This has been made apparent with numerous investigation whitewashed. Johnson gets away with all Freedland points out because he can. It's not just because he has a majority and can win elections; this is not be justification for corruption.

An example of how bad this issue has become is present by Laura Kuenssberg's article on the BBC. It starts off asking "why is it a problem if the prime minster lies?" before then saying how skilled a speaker he is in terms of waffling nonsensical rhretoric (my words), comparing him favourably to Steve Jobs in terms of "bending facts to achieve his goals" and ultimately concluding "Johnson just wants to be loved." No Ms Kuenssberg, we are talking about corruption here and you are a political journalist, not a Tory spin doctor. Say the word and say that he has lied in the House of Commons and put this in context to that he has been sacked from two previous jobs from lying. Your readers also deserve the truth, you'd think. It's truly pathetic and contributes to the public tolerance of political corruption.

Surely someone can catch him , the unlawful covid contracts are enough to get most people sacked. This has to be the most corrupt govt ever
No where near as corrupted as a labour government who took us to an illegal war

Hold on, you mean the conservative AND Labour are liars? I never knew that. It’s almost as if they’re all as bad as each other and just depends which side of the political spectrum your on that dictates if they’re scum or ok. 

I don't believe "they're all the same" and in fact consider it the easy viewpoint as it's a generalisation made without evidence. Take truthfulness as a measure. Do you think a) ALL politicians lie ALL the time? and, if not, b) they all lie by the exact same amount?

I personally don't think this and that there are still good and bad politicians. Or bad and even worse politicians if you wish to be cynical. Nothing wrong with questioning their actions as public disapproval can improve things, even if changes are slow. 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:03pm
Not quite sure where to put this but deserves a mention:

Nadine Dorries claims Boris Johnson and Brexit have delivered 180,000 well-paid jobs in Hartlepool. Sounds fantastic and then you read that Hartlepool has a population of 92,000. LOL

https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2021/05/04/nadine-dorries-claims-tories-created-more-jobs-in-hartlepool-than-people/" rel="nofollow - Nadine Dorries claims the Tories created twice as many jobs in Hartlepool as there are people - The Poke


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:34pm
The choice is so poor. Between a self interested greedy bunch with endless stories of corruption and money grabbing and the new labour hypocrites. In the interests of balance I just recalled the child abuse cover ups under new labour too, an estimated 15000 children abused and the police claimed to be too scared to investigate them all at the time for fear of being labelled racist or starting a race war up north. There is also the fact the gap between rich and poor actually grew under new labour. Plus the record levels of mrsa in uk hospitals. Labour have run llanelli forever and hows that turning out? some fo the worst drug rates in wales, the worst alcohol rates in the county (3 times the county average) and the town centre voted 2nd worst in the UK. The hospital emergency ward reduced to minor injuries despite the town having 5 times the population of carmarthen? Hardly a great track record. For the life of me I couldnt understand how all that happened under new labour, we paid more taxes yet got worse results




-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:43pm
A large part of the issue for me is having to all intents and purposes a two party system. Followed by FPTP. Together, this results in a large % of people who don't care and/or feel their vote does not matter. It also means to get either of the main parties to incorporate current issues is very slow as it has to be done internally. 


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

The choice is so poor. Between a self interested greedy bunch with endless stories of corruption and money grabbing and the new labour hypocrites. In the interests of balance I just recalled the child abuse cover ups under new labour too, an estimated 15000 children abused and the police claimed to be too scared to investigate them all at the time for fear of being labelled racist or starting a race war up north. There is also the fact the gap between rich and poor actually grew under new labour. Plus the record levels of mrsa in uk hospitals. Labour have run llanelli forever and hows that turning out? some fo the worst drug rates in wales, the worst alcohol rates in the county (3 times the county average) and the town centre voted 2nd worst in the UK. The hospital emergency ward reduced to minor injuries despite the town having 5 times the population of carmarthen? Hardly a great track record. For the life of me I couldnt understand how all that happened under new labour, we paid more taxes yet got worse results


That is disappointing.... Come on guys, put in an effort and get that 1st place! What town was no 1 out of interest?


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 2:02pm
Dudley I think , they dont even have a poundland there Wink

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 5:31pm
A democracy where 99% of the information required to make a reasoned political decision has been filtered and censored by a ruling class with a vested interest in maintaining their position and wealth is not really a democracy. Is it that surprising that the electorate often appear as masochists who vote against their own interests?


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 6:22pm
Theres no doubt most news we hear is biased and filtered with big corporate vested interests , every side always claims to have the best version of the truth. But on the flip side in wales we seem to lack enough news media coverage. Lest we forget how much waste and cover ups weve had in welsh councils and the WAG too. The UK govt has an infinitely bigger budget and power still though so they can do far more damage. I do find it endlessly bizarre the vast majority, myself included focus on the PM and the london celebrities yet could barely name a local councillor or AM

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 04 May 2021 at 10:15pm
I’ve come to the conclusion that this forum is rather Labour orientated. We do wear red I suppose. 


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 05 May 2021 at 11:36am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

A large part of the issue for me is having to all intents and purposes a two party system. Followed by FPTP. Together, this results in a large % of people who don't care and/or feel their vote does not matter. It also means to get either of the main parties to incorporate current issues is very slow as it has to be done internally. 

The two things are linked - FPTP leads to a two-party system, because as you say, people may well vote tactically rather than for their preferred candidate, or just don't vote for the same reasons. 

I don't know what the 'best' system would look like, but I do prefer the Senedd electoral system, which ensures at least some representation for the smaller parties. It's also very difficult for anyone to get an overall majority here - has Labour ever managed it? usually, they have to deal with another party to govern, which again leads to less extreme policies.

When we look at how the Tories have governed the UK for the last 10 years, this is no bad thing! That really is an extremist government!


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 05 May 2021 at 11:46am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

A large part of the issue for me is having to all intents and purposes a two party system. Followed by FPTP. Together, this results in a large % of people who don't care and/or feel their vote does not matter. It also means to get either of the main parties to incorporate current issues is very slow as it has to be done internally. 

The two things are linked - FPTP leads to a two-party system, because as you say, people may well vote tactically rather than for their preferred candidate, or just don't vote for the same reasons. 

I don't know what the 'best' system would look like, but I do prefer the Senedd electoral system, which ensures at least some representation for the smaller parties. It's also very difficult for anyone to get an overall majority here - has Labour ever managed it? usually, they have to deal with another party to govern, which again leads to less extreme policies.

When we look at how the Tories have governed the UK for the last 10 years, this is no bad thing! That really is an extremist government!

Blair had an overall majority from memory and that didn't go well. For me proportional representation seems the best system. If you get 10% of the overall vote it seems pretty democratic that you get 10% of the MP's in Westminster. 


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 05 May 2021 at 2:54pm
Any idea when we can see our doctors again face to face? now that theyve got the urgent matter of the public being allowed to go to snooker matches perhaps we can see medical patients next? my health is nearly as important as snooker lol

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 05 May 2021 at 7:55pm
This is truly and utterly appalling. Remember it any time the Tories claim to be the party of patriotism and for military veterans.
https://twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1389911018491482112?s=21" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/davidlammy/status/1389911018491482112?s=21


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 05 May 2021 at 10:17pm
Is everyone postal voting or going in person?

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 06 May 2021 at 7:43am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Is everyone postal voting or going in person?

I'm going all the way to Hartlepool to cast my vote. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 06 May 2021 at 9:03am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Is everyone postal voting or going in person?

Going to the polling station tonight after work.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 06 May 2021 at 9:36am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Is everyone postal voting or going in person?

I'm going all the way to Hartlepool to cast my vote. 
dda iawn you must really want the tories out doc lol Tongue


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 9:24am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Is everyone postal voting or going in person?

I'm going all the way to Hartlepool to cast my vote. 
dda iawn you must really want the tories out doc lol Tongue

I went for the Monster Raving Loony Party's Incredible Flying Brick's policy on abolishing gravity. For too long gravity has held us back. We must fight to take back control and reclaim our sovereignty over fundamental forces. 107 other people in Hartlepool agreed with me.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 11:33am
Astonishing how Brexit seems to have hurt Labour (in Hartlepool, anyway) whereas the shambolic stop-start lockdown policies (which - avoidably - killed thousands of people ) has left Boris untouched...

...or maybe not so surprising when you look at the papers for the last couple of days, making it look as if England have won WW3 against France in Jersey (the truth is far more complicated than some 'win' for England, if anyone cares to research the matter)... this fuss kicked off just before the elections.

Was that a coincidence? I tend to think it wasn't. 


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 11:36am
I heard labour had a remain candidate in Hartlepool bashing brexit again? Typical. Do they want to lose?

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 12:13pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I heard labour had a remain candidate in Hartlepool bashing brexit again? Typical. Do they want to lose?
The Labour party are very dull , they no longer care about working class voters , go woke go broke


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I heard labour had a remain candidate in Hartlepool bashing brexit again? Typical. Do they want to lose?
The Labour party are very dull , they no longer care about working class voters , go woke go broke
 LOLLOLLOL


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 12:19pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I heard labour had a remain candidate in Hartlepool bashing brexit again? Typical. Do they want to lose?
The Labour party are very dull , they no longer care about working class voters , go woke go broke
They no longer care about the working class? Most of their policies in the last election and the things they’ve proposed when in opposition have been about helping the working class, something the Tories will never do, save for a few token gifts. The results so far today have only cemented my opinion that if Wales wants a left wing government that will help the working classes in the next decade, we’ll only get it through independence.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I heard labour had a remain candidate in Hartlepool bashing brexit again? Typical. Do they want to lose?
The Labour party are very dull , they no longer care about working class voters , go woke go broke

Unlike the Tories?

Look at the absolutely huge contracts awarded to their cronies over COVID - most of which were totally messed up by those private companies. That's how much they care about how they spend public money - they just see it as an opportunity to transfer taxpayers' money to their own mates. 

Come on!

http://www.nhsforsale.info/covid-19-contracts-with-the-private-sector/" rel="nofollow - https://www.nhsforsale.info/covid-19-contracts-with-the-private-sector/

Or just Google 'Private Eye', and take a look at their special report entitled 'Revolving Doors'.

(No party has a monopoly of good guys or bad guys (or gals) - but the current Tories are especially corrupt and obnoxious.)


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I heard labour had a remain candidate in Hartlepool bashing brexit again? Typical. Do they want to lose?
The Labour party are very dull , they no longer care about working class voters , go woke go broke
They no longer care about the working class? Most of their policies in the last election and the things they’ve proposed when in opposition have been about helping the working class, something the Tories will never do, save for a few token gifts. The results so far today have only cemented my opinion that if Wales wants a left wing government that will help the working classes in the next decade, we’ll only get it through independence.

Quite right.

If England want to go down the route of being dominated by Daily Heil thinking, good luck to them - I seriously believe that Scotland will be independent in 10 years or so. I do hope we go the same way, rather than be absorbed into the London octopus....


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:00pm
The party of the woking class?

I actually have no clue what this whole "woke" thing is about. What do people mean about it, particularly why do they dislike and even hate it so much? Is it over-prominence, high priority of issues faced by ethnic/other minorities (sometimes very small) in policy so the majority don't think it applies to their own situation/concerns/issues? Is it referring to a level of hyper-sensitivity that social media post-political correctness has brought us?


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The party of the woking class?

I actually have no clue what this whole "woke" thing is about. What do people mean about it, particularly why do they dislike and even hate it so much? Is it over-prominence, high priority of issues faced by ethnic/other minorities (sometimes very small) in policy so the majority don't think it applies to their own situation/concerns/issues? Is it referring to a level of hyper-sensitivity that social media post-political correctness has brought us?
It’s a word whose definition usually changes depending on what side of the political spectrum you fall on (not to generalise, there will be exceptions).

It’s official definition in this context is “ “originally: well-informed, up-to-date. Now chiefly: alert to racial or social discrimination and injustice”.”

It has, I think, been weaponised slightly by aspects of the right wing such as that lovable rogue Laurence Fox and affable easy going fella Toby Young. They tend to use it as a stick to beat anyone who uses it or aspires/seems to be ‘woke’, and they use it as a way to mock people who they believe to be “white knighting”, part of “cancel culture” or “victim culture”.

For me, being “woke” is noticing that there are groups of people that have/do had it worse than others for a long time, and trying to do something about it, or raise awareness of it. 


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:37pm
Hartlepool, like most of the Red Wall, have suffered from Tory austerity for the last ten years.  Guess what, they've had enough of the Labour party and decided for a change and further Tory policies!  I'm utterly confused.🤔🙄🙁

-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

The party of the woking class?

I actually have no clue what this whole "woke" thing is about. What do people mean about it, particularly why do they dislike and even hate it so much? Is it over-prominence, high priority of issues faced by ethnic/other minorities (sometimes very small) in policy so the majority don't think it applies to their own situation/concerns/issues? Is it referring to a level of hyper-sensitivity that social media post-political correctness has brought us?

Over prominence is an under statement, the UK 24/7 coverage of the BLM riots over a matter 10,000 miles away all during a pandemic where mass gatherings were illegal. It was a disgrace and half a dozen labour mps joined in. The action was inappropriate and not proportional. Meanwhile the silent majority again felt they were ignored and de-prioritised. 60% of covid deaths were disabled people, who marched for them? Just not sexy enough for the rioters.










-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:38pm
Past tense of wake - alive to things in particular racism. been elongated to cover many things which many would regard as fussy politically correctness. 


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Past tense of wake - alive to things in particular racism. been elongated to cover many things which many would regard as fussy politically correctness. 

Its got to the stage where some crimes , even murders do not make the news unless there is a racist element involved. Simple murders often do not make the news, theyre deemed just not newsworthy enough.




-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Hartlepool, like most of the Red Wall, have suffered from Tory austerity for the last ten years.  Guess what, they've had enough of the Labour party and decided for a change and further Tory policies!  I'm utterly confused.🤔🙄🙁


Tories mopped up the UKIP vote thats the main reason, but the tories have also used the vaccinations success and testing success...The endless covid contract fiddling got lost in the noise

Labour are more like a radical student union party at the moment, theyre only speaking to a minority of people... They are not talking to brexiteers, theyre not talking to the millions of sme small to medium business community, they havent done for decades thats their main problem...Ive lived in wales my whole life and Im struggling to think of any 1 single time where the WAG or councils have ever done anything to help small businesses. Just raise rates, car parking, sell out to retail parks and massive corporations ? They should target these tax dodging corporations as their number 1 priority if they ever want wealth redistribution. 

They need to be more optimistic and actually help peoples aspirations not just the constant doom mongering. They MUST improve and LISTEN to the public or they will disappear forever, which means free run for the tories or the permanent rise of national parties.

But will they learn the right lessons? Dianne abbott is already blaming it all on keir starmer , the same woman who labelled all brexiteers racists....mindless


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 1:54pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Past tense of wake - alive to things in particular racism. been elongated to cover many things which many would regard as fussy politically correctness. 

Its got to the stage where some crimes , even murders do not make the news unless there is a racist element involved. Simple murders often do not make the news, theyre deemed just not newsworthy enough.


Well yes, that’s how the news works? There were 809 murders in the UK in 2019-20. That doesn’t include near murders via GBH/similar, missing persons, manslaughter etc etc.

So that’s an average of over 2 a day. Naturally the news can’t/won’t go into depth on every single one. When murders have another connotation - a racial one, violence against women i.e. domestic violence, a child murder, they will naturally get more attention.

Especially when one of the biggest stories of recent times has been the increased recognition of things such as systemic racism, domestic violence, knife crime etc etc.


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 2:01pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Past tense of wake - alive to things in particular racism. been elongated to cover many things which many would regard as fussy politically correctness. 
All the points I made for “woke” stand for “Political Correctness” too. The definition of political correctness is “Political correctness (adjectivally: politically correct; commonly abbreviated PC) is a term used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society.”

So again it’s a term that’s been turned on it’s head, meaning wise, by some. Now it’s a buzzword to mock people who are trying to “avoid offence or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society.”

As if for some reason that’s a bad thing?


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Past tense of wake - alive to things in particular racism. been elongated to cover many things which many would regard as fussy politically correctness. 

Its got to the stage where some crimes , even murders do not make the news unless there is a racist element involved. Simple murders often do not make the news, theyre deemed just not newsworthy enough.


Well yes, that’s how the news works? There were 809 murders in the UK in 2019-20. That doesn’t include near murders via GBH/similar, missing persons, manslaughter etc etc.

So that’s an average of over 2 a day. Naturally the news can’t/won’t go into depth on every single one. When murders have another connotation - a racial one, violence against women i.e. domestic violence, a child murder, they will naturally get more attention.

Especially when one of the biggest stories of recent times has been the increased recognition of things such as systemic racism, domestic violence, knife crime etc etc.

A murder is a murder its a tragedy for the person killed and their friends and families regardless of race and gender. By ignoring and not reporting on other murders youre inadvertently discriminating against that person and youre ignoring the actual real truth of these stories which are often way more complex than the over simplistic identity politics. This is yet another area where labour are losing voters. They need to wise up or theyll become  as extinct as the dodo bird....Leaving the tory mob to  carve up the countries wealth amongst themselves. 





-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Past tense of wake - alive to things in particular racism. been elongated to cover many things which many would regard as fussy politically correctness. 

Its got to the stage where some crimes , even murders do not make the news unless there is a racist element involved. Simple murders often do not make the news, theyre deemed just not newsworthy enough.


Well yes, that’s how the news works? There were 809 murders in the UK in 2019-20. That doesn’t include near murders via GBH/similar, missing persons, manslaughter etc etc.

So that’s an average of over 2 a day. Naturally the news can’t/won’t go into depth on every single one. When murders have another connotation - a racial one, violence against women i.e. domestic violence, a child murder, they will naturally get more attention.

Especially when one of the biggest stories of recent times has been the increased recognition of things such as systemic racism, domestic violence, knife crime etc etc.

A murder is a murder its a tragedy for the person killed and their friends and families regardless of race and gender. By ignoring and not reporting on other murders youre inadvertently discriminating against that person and youre ignoring the actual real truth of these stories which are often way more complex than the over simplistic identity politics. 



Of course it’s a tragedy. Didn’t ever say it wasn’t? Your main concern was murders not making the news. I find it very hard to believe there’s been even a single murder in the UK that had had absolutely 0 news coverage of some type.

But as I said, there’s a limited amount of time/resources available for, say, the 10 o’clock news. So there is no “ignoring” of murders and it’s certainly not discrimination. It’s that some things are more newsworthy than others. That’s really not hard to understand. 

The murder of a child, or the abduction and murder of Sarah Everard by a serving Met Police officer, or the murder of a black person in a hate crime simply because they are black, is more newsworthy than say a drug dealer with a long criminal record killing another for a debt. That doesn’t mean they matter less and it’s certainly not discrimination. It’s a fact that they will get more news coverage.

I really don’t think domestic violence/violence against women, rising knife crime and systemic racism is “simplistic identity politics”.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Past tense of wake - alive to things in particular racism. been elongated to cover many things which many would regard as fussy politically correctness. 

Its got to the stage where some crimes , even murders do not make the news unless there is a racist element involved. Simple murders often do not make the news, theyre deemed just not newsworthy enough.


Well yes, that’s how the news works? There were 809 murders in the UK in 2019-20. That doesn’t include near murders via GBH/similar, missing persons, manslaughter etc etc.

So that’s an average of over 2 a day. Naturally the news can’t/won’t go into depth on every single one. When murders have another connotation - a racial one, violence against women i.e. domestic violence, a child murder, they will naturally get more attention.

Especially when one of the biggest stories of recent times has been the increased recognition of things such as systemic racism, domestic violence, knife crime etc etc.

A murder is a murder its a tragedy for the person killed and their friends and families regardless of race and gender. By ignoring and not reporting on other murders youre inadvertently discriminating against that person and youre ignoring the actual real truth of these stories which are often way more complex than the over simplistic identity politics. 



Of course it’s a tragedy. Didn’t ever say it wasn’t? Your main concern was murders not making the news. I find it very hard to believe there’s been even a single murder in the UK that had had absolutely 0 news coverage of some type.

But as I said, there’s a limited amount of time/resources available for, say, the 10 o’clock news. So there is no “ignoring” of murders and it’s certainly not discrimination. It’s that some things are more newsworthy than others. That’s really not hard to understand. 

The murder of a child, or the abduction and murder of Sarah Everard by a serving Met Police officer, or the murder of a black person in a hate crime simply because they are black, is more newsworthy than say a drug dealer with a long criminal record killing another for a debt. That doesn’t mean they matter less and it’s certainly not discrimination. It’s a fact that they will get more news coverage.

I really don’t think domestic violence/violence against women, rising knife crime and systemic racism is “simplistic identity politics”.

Ignoring other murders and tragedies and stories, because they are not a particular race or gender is imo discrimination too. The whole idea of positive discrimination is deeply flawed at all levels. You need a level playing field for all, positive discrimination is a case of 2 wrongs dont make a right.
The irony of it all is the most vulnerable of all are the least protected. No one discusses disabled discrimination or the treatment of the elderly in care homes for decades? Prisoners get treated better. Then over 60,000 of these pensioners die alone in the pandemic, they dont even get a minutes silence before a rugby match anymore..many of them good hard working people, many of them heroes of the second world war, disgraceful.. The fact that those with severe learning disabilities were not prioritsed at all for the vaccination until jo whiley made a fuss about it on twitter is really a sign of the times. They get ignored unless a celebrity makes a stink? The rights of these vulnerable people gets lost in the noise of tabloids, virtue signalling, identity politics , tv ratings and angry mobs. 







-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 3:05pm
I read that Hartlepool had a turnout of only 42%. So the majority of people do not care at all. Did people know it is compulsory to vote in Australia? Surprised me when I found out.

And Australia obviously is not the best example for electing non-idiotic prime ministers. Their politicians are something else again.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I read that Hartlepool had a turnout of only 42%. So the majority of people do not care at all. Did people know it is compulsory to vote in Australia? Surprised me when I found out.

And Australia obviously is not the best example for electing non-idiotic prime ministers. Their politicians are something else again.

people still scared of catching covid in the queues too


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 3:18pm
Greens making some ground in the local elections in England, apparently. Seems a useful direction for Labour to move you'd think and try and get the younger voters out. Not just "we want to work to a sustainable future" bollocks but actual hard policies that they know the Tories won't be able to match. In some ways most politics is just bickering about relatively trivial stuff. Climate change is much bigger. Perhaps even more important than Brexit dare I say it.


Posted By: SospanMawr
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 3:21pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:



Ignoring other murders and tragedies and stories, because they are not a particular race or gender is imo discrimination too. The whole idea of positive discrimination is deeply flawed at all levels. You need a level playing field for all, positive discrimination is a case of 2 wrongs dont make a right.
The irony of it all is the most vulnerable of all are the least protected. No one discusses disabled discrimination or the treatment of the elderly in care homes for decades? Prisoners get treated better. Then over 60,000 of these pensioners die alone in the pandemic, they dont even get a minutes silence before a rugby match anymore..many of them good hard working people, many of them heroes of the second world war, disgraceful.. The fact that those with severe learning disabilities were not prioritsed at all for the vaccination until jo whiley made a fuss about it on twitter is really a sign of the times. They get ignored unless a celebrity makes a stink? The rights of these vulnerable people gets lost in the noise of tabloids, virtue signalling, identity politics , tv ratings and angry mobs. 






Look, either acknowledge and responds to the point I make or there’s no point having a discussion.

These murders are not ignored, despite your repeated claims. They will have some form of media coverage. Some will have more than others. That’s just how it works. It is not discrimination. You can say it is, but it isn’t.

Wales Online don’t send a reporter down to Felinfoel rugby field to do post match interviews and match reports but they do for the Scarlets. When that corner shop was robbed in Llanelli a few weeks ago the BBC didn’t stand outside for a segment on the 10 o’clock news, but when Hatton Garden was robbed they did. Some things are more noteworthy than others to fit into a limited time and resource allocation. 

These things do get covered, but not to the same level as others.

I agree with some of your other points, even if I don’t think they were relevant to the discussion we were having.



Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 4:29pm
So I'm now being called a  racist lol , the Labour party are now champagne socialist, woke is I e looking for problems where there aren't any I e snow white ? Look at America now where a police officer stopped a black girl being killed and how he's been demonized by the left woke lot


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I read that Hartlepool had a turnout of only 42%. So the majority of people do not care at all. Did people know it is compulsory to vote in Australia? Surprised me when I found out.

And Australia obviously is not the best example for electing non-idiotic prime ministers. Their politicians are something else again.

What if you have no political affinity (like myself)? Who do you vote for? I assume a spoilt paper?


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

I read that Hartlepool had a turnout of only 42%. So the majority of people do not care at all. Did people know it is compulsory to vote in Australia? Surprised me when I found out.

And Australia obviously is not the best example for electing non-idiotic prime ministers. Their politicians are something else again.

What if you have no political affinity (like myself)? Who do you vote for? I assume a spoilt paper?

It's $20 fine for not voting, I'm sure some are fine with that but turnout is over 90%. Higher rates of spoilt votes at 5% (UK is 0.3%). They have a ranking system as well, where you order your candidates in terms of preference. Apparently they have this thing of "donkey voting", which is just ranking their preferred candidates in any old order. Meaning if you're Aaron Aaronson you might find yourself doing quite well...

Maybe they have more swing voters? Or possible it results in more targeted advertising on very short term or populist issues? "Vote suchandsuch and we'll give everyone a free beer". I'd like to think it gets a higher percentage of people to think about their vote beforehand but suspect that's naive. I find it strange as well and I am someone who sometimes chooses not to vote when I have no strong viewpoint or feel it's pointless voting, which has been the case several times (might surprise some on here but it's true).


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 6:04pm
Among the BBC's coverage of the Hartlepool result was to
ask failed former right wing labour leaders/celebs for an explanation/comment. Believe it or not they thought Starmer hadn't gone far enough in ridding the party of Corbyn's left wing legacy. These were the people who thought the very replacement of Corbyn with Starmer would give Labour a 20% lead over Boris and his gang of greedy, corrupt public schoolkids. They didn't even see that the Labour party would then stand for much the same as the Liberals and moves in this direction will almost certainly result in similar election "success"
Aneurin Bevan and Labour gave us the glittering jewel of the NHS which the Tories and their greedy friends are now lining their pockets by slowly privatising for profit. No other party would have the courage or imagination to have attempted Bevan's work and the likes of Starmer would be too scared of the right wing ruling class and their media to attempt it or even put a cap on the current slow privatisations. Turn Labour into the lib dems (or whatever they now call themselves) and the electorate will treat and vote for them exactly as if they are lib-dems.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 6:48pm
Question for you Dai, do you think there is much interest in real left wing politics in the UK? Would we ever see something like the NHS created in current times? I look at the coronavirus crisis and creation of test and trace.... cronyism and corruption, allowing many to get rich off public money during a national crisis. Yet the public still vote Tory in England and generally believe the government to have done a good job. I anticipate you will say the stranglehold the right wing media has as one reason but the corruption and lies are out there, even reported in the BBC. I then wonder.... Do people even care? Many seem willing to tolerate blatant corruption from a group of elites because why, they want Brexit, they want to believe lies, the opposition offer nothing? Johnson in response to Hartlepool states it's thanks to Brexit it can be a freeport. There are 80 freeports in the EU. I just don't understand how we have got to this point where almost literally the majority of the things said by our PM are a lie. Not spin, an outright lie. Yet no one gives a toss.

Corbyn appears so divisive I don't think it helps bringing him up either. 


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Question for you Dai, do you think there is much interest in real left wing politics in the UK? Would we ever see something like the NHS created in current times? I look at the coronavirus crisis and creation of test and trace.... cronyism and corruption, allowing many to get rich off public money during a national crisis. Yet the public still vote Tory in England and generally believe the government to have done a good job. I anticipate you will say the stranglehold the right wing media has as one reason but the corruption and lies are out there, even reported in the BBC. I then wonder.... Do people even care? Many seem willing to tolerate blatant corruption from a group of elites because why, they want Brexit, they want to believe lies, the opposition offer nothing? Johnson in response to Hartlepool states it's thanks to Brexit it can be a freeport. There are 80 freeports in the EU. I just don't understand how we have got to this point where almost literally the majority of the things said by our PM are a lie. Not spin, an outright lie. Yet no one gives a toss.

Corbyn appears so divisive I don't think it helps bringing him up either. 
Who come up with the NHS


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 7:12pm
Starmer is better off really listening to the mass voters out there, not the tabloids, nor radicals , nor lobbyists, the tabloids dont vote though they still have an influence its not as great as it used to be imo 

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 7:29pm
Oh dear  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/khalid-mahmood-quit-labour-frontbench-starmer-b1843967.html%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/khalid-mahmood-quit-labour-frontbench-starmer-b1843967.html


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 7:45pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Is everyone postal voting or going in person?

I'm going all the way to Hartlepool to cast my vote. 
Why


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 7:48pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I heard labour had a remain candidate in Hartlepool bashing brexit again? Typical. Do they want to lose?
The Labour party are very dull , they no longer care about working class voters , go woke go broke
They no longer care about the working class? Most of their policies in the last election and the things they’ve proposed when in opposition have been about helping the working class, something the Tories will never do, save for a few token gifts. The results so far today have only cemented my opinion that if Wales wants a left wing government that will help the working classes in the next decade, we’ll only get it through independence.
Policy of freebies


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 7:52pm
Lefties so nice https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prince-philip-death-liverpool-councillor-b1831251.html%20" rel="nofollow - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/prince-philip-death-liverpool-councillor-b1831251.html


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 9:25pm
doc. You ask if there is any interest in left wing politics. How many people ever hear anything but the most distorted, negative view of left wing politics and then after those who advocate them have had their characters maligned by exaggerations and lies. Ask people whether they believe that the huge gap between rich and poor is fair, or whether they are happy that it has such a horrendous effect on the life chances of the poor and you will see that there is no indifference to real politics as opposed to the narrow band of right wing politics advocated by
the self-interested billionaire media.


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

doc. You ask if there is any interest in left wing politics. How many people ever hear anything but the most distorted, negative view of left wing politics and then after those who advocate them have had their characters maligned by exaggerations and lies. Ask people whether they believe that the huge gap between rich and poor is fair, or whether they are happy that it has such a horrendous effect on the life chances of the poor and you will see that there is no indifference to real politics as opposed to the narrow band of right wing politics advocated by
the self-interested billionaire media.
You mention the rich , how many of the rich back labour ? You get a load of the rich backing labour , why ? Champagne socialist yes , jump on any woke band wagon yes , care about the working class no , at least with the Tories they've remain the same labour no longer represent the working class and have been discarded, as a former labour MP said on the radio today , labour think social media voices the nation.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 10:22pm
The mentioning of corrupt conservatives it could be simply that voters think all politicians are corrupt so same boat whoever is in power. That’s the impression I get talking to people. So it’s not a case of ‘I’m voting Labour they’re more honest’ 


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 07 May 2021 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

doc. You ask if there is any interest in left wing politics. How many people ever hear anything but the most distorted, negative view of left wing politics and then after those who advocate them have had their characters maligned by exaggerations and lies. Ask people whether they believe that the huge gap between rich and poor is fair, or whether they are happy that it has such a horrendous effect on the life chances of the poor and you will see that there is no indifference to real politics as opposed to the narrow band of right wing politics advocated by
the self-interested billionaire media.

You mention the rich , how many of the rich back labour ? You get a load of the rich backing labour , why ? Champagne socialist yes , jump on any woke band wagon yes , care about the working class no , at least with the Tories they've remain the same labour no longer represent the working class and have been discarded, as a former labour MP said on the radio today , labour think social media voices the nation.


The rich back right wing labour leaders like Starmer who they know will do little to alter their immense power and advantage. That way they can keep their wealth, easing their consciences while improving their public image.


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 12:13am
Whatever Labour’s trouble in England it clearly hasn’t extended to Wales. I’m no fan of them and am gutted Plaid have done so poorly but for Labour to get 30 seats is an amazing achievement, especially with a voting system that is designed to introduce a degree of proportionality (although arguably not enough) and make majorities hard. What the reasons for such contrasting fortunes are should be a matter of considerable debate, as I find it hard to believe that the Welsh (and Scottish for that matter) working classes could be so much more leftwing than the English.


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 8:12am
[QUOTE=Jones2004]Whatever Labour’s trouble in England it clearly hasn’t extended to Wales. I’m no fan of them and am gutted Plaid have done so poorly but for Labour to get 30 seats is an amazing achievement, especially with a voting system that is designed to introduce a degree of proportionality (although arguably not enough) and make majorities hard. What the reasons for such contrasting fortunes are should be a matter of considerable debate, as I find it hard to believe that the Welsh (and Scottish for that matter) working classes could be so much more leftwing than the English.[/QUOTE
In Wales people still vote labour no matter what , because their grandparents did , very strange 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 8:33am
Much debate about right wing, left wing, corruption etc. Historically working class areas voted Labour. They ran away with elections in Scotland & Wales. Its still the same in Wales but a quality politician can change things by their message and professionalism - step up Nicola Sturgeon.

Now you can love them or hate them but some politicians like Sturgeon & Boris have that million dollar spark - the electorate like them. In Boris' case they even choose to forgive him for total botch ups. Until the under privileged in this country of ours get a leader with equal appeal their cause will remain, unfortunately, in the hands of a privileged minority.


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 11:23am
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

doc. You ask if there is any interest in left wing politics. How many people ever hear anything but the most distorted, negative view of left wing politics and then after those who advocate them have had their characters maligned by exaggerations and lies. Ask people whether they believe that the huge gap between rich and poor is fair, or whether they are happy that it has such a horrendous effect on the life chances of the poor and you will see that there is no indifference to real politics as opposed to the narrow band of right wing politics advocated by the self-interested billionaire media.

Those billionaire media moguls are also Conservative Party donors as well and numerous journalists swap back and forth between the papers and politics; a conflict of interest that seems fine in the UK. It's a full on propaganda machine, no other word for it.


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Whatever Labour’s trouble in England it clearly hasn’t extended to Wales. I’m no fan of them and am gutted Plaid have done so poorly but for Labour to get 30 seats is an amazing achievement, especially with a voting system that is designed to introduce a degree of proportionality (although arguably not enough) and make majorities hard. What the reasons for such contrasting fortunes are should be a matter of considerable debate, as I find it hard to believe that the Welsh (and Scottish for that matter) working classes could be so much more leftwing than the English.

For whatever reason (the massive imbalance in newspaper support, Boris being high profile vs Starmer being low key, Brexit supporters switching to the Tories) the Conservatives have done very well in England - despite the total mess Johnson and his private sector cronies made of a great deal of the coronavirus decision making and administration:

Test and Trace - given to an unqualified Tory - was to be 'world beating' a year ago - still doesn't work;
PPE - many contracts for supply given to personal friends - perhaps Hancock's publican being the most extreme example of someone with no prior experience - and many PPE kits bought had to be ditched as they were not up t scratch

Vaccination and distribution of such - run by the NHS and local authorities - an almost unqualified success, with minimal private sector input.

Bizarrely, Johnson has not suffered for the absurdly expensive cock-ups of his private sector chums (£31 BILLION set aside for PPE, I think) and has managed somehow to claim the credit for the public sector vaccination programme. Govt's main plus point here was to buy enough doses early -credit for that, TBF.)

So - in England, Johnson has done well as a result of his wholly inappropriate 'optimism' which cost who knows how many lives, but who cares? Not the electorate in England, apparently.

Meanwhile in Wales - another low-key politician - Mark Drakeford - has been seen to run things cautiously, and to tell it like it is - no BS - and in spite of everything, Wales has done a bit better overall in dealing with COVID than wealthier England. The electorate have noticed this, and voted accordingly.

No wonder I prefer to live in Wales!


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 2:25pm
England is the most over populated country in europe at 432 people per square km, 16th in the world
Wales is only 151 people per square km and 121st in the world
scotland is only 65 per square km and 154th
ireland 72 per square km and 151st

The english can keep their endless airport expansions, endless tower blocks, increased pollution and concrete jungles, all in the name of profiteering, they can keep their crown jewels too...Give me cleaner air, green pastures, secret beaches and tranquil estuaries ....Alas bojo and the bullingdon boys know the price of everything but the value of nothing


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 2:41pm
Looking at welsh results , it seems plaed had the weakest night picking up just 1 seat, tories gained 5 and labour gained 1, so solid night for labour in wales, tories will be happy as they gained 5. seats nicked off UKIP. Labours overall share of vote went up a bit too. everyone is exaggerating their successes, but I think plaed will be most disappointed, tories content with progress and labour happy to take 30 seats again

The drakeford factor is interesting, hes now hailed as a great covid leader. I dont entirely agree with that. The early days were dreadful in wales just as in england. The endless wasted field hospitals, the deaths in the care homes, the failure on testing was even worse here as we ended up joining the UK website instead. Big towns like llanelli were 6 months behind carmarthen for testing sites? 

I also thought some decisions like reopening night clubs last year and reopening most schools in february 2021 was too soon, plus the endless marches should have been curtailed during lockdown imo. But the miraculous vaccine roll out has been very good. That roll out has saved everyones bacon include drakeford. Though there have been gaps in that too, disabled people werent specifically prioritised and should have been imo...  Ive not heard of any profiteering with the covid contracts like westminster, drakeford certainly doesnt seem like hes in politics for self serving purposes

I also think the controlled withdrawal from lockdown has been pretty good. Though the front line police should also be prioritised for a jab imo theyve had a nightmare job to do and they will need to be on their toes when pubs reopen on may 17th...Its going to be carnage and the WAG and police need to have a masterplan to deal with than and dispersing mass crowds...social distancing and masks etc may become unworkable in those situations which may cause another spike in cases

....Next step is phased reopening of major events too, that will be interesting......




-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 08 May 2021 at 6:48pm
Aber-fan I think your £31 billion for track and trace is a bit low. It actually costs £37 billion, but what's £6,000,000,000 between friends (or business partners) for that matter?


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 11 May 2021 at 8:01am
Finally someone starting to catalogue these lies in the HoC. A short video worth a watch.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1389529623487295490" rel="nofollow - https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterStefanovi2/status/1389529623487295490


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 11 May 2021 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Aber-fan I think your £31 billion for track and trace is a bit low. It actually costs £37 billion, but what's £6,000,000,000 between friends (or business partners) for that matter?

LOL

You may well be right - for sure, the corruption regarding the involvement of unqualified cronies and their companies in the COVID bonanza is an absolute disgrace, though you'd have to look pretty hard in the Tory press (Mail, Telegraph, Times, Sun, Express...) to see anything but what a great job has been done on vaccination (run by the public sector!). 

As a taxpayer, I am incensed by this - but other taxpayers who would probably feel the same, just have not been informed. Boris is seen as the 'Brexit hero", and who cares about this major raid on the public purse, which we'll be paying for  for years - and our kids and grandkids too, very likely. It's all rather depressing... more fuss has been made over the £60k or so spent on Boris's wallpaper than on this act of grand larceny.


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 14 May 2021 at 10:13pm
The first line of this tweet was just too funny not to share!
https://twitter.com/matthancock/status/1393299053694304257?s=21" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/matthancock/status/1393299053694304257?s=21


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 May 2021 at 1:08pm
Now then - it seems as if Boris's lies are starting to come home to roost.

(As someone who lived in NI for 3 years during some 'difficult' years, I always thought that the so-called agreement WRT NI was a non-starter, since there was no way to appease both the Republicans and the Unionists over the issue.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682

Of course, since most people in GB don't give a toss for NI, this may not have electoral consequences - yet.


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 17 May 2021 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Now then - it seems as if Boris's lies are starting to come home to roost.

(As someone who lived in NI for 3 years during some 'difficult' years, I always thought that the so-called agreement WRT NI was a non-starter, since there was no way to appease both the Republicans and the Unionists over the issue.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682

Of course, since most people in GB don't give a toss for NI, this may not have electoral consequences - yet.
given labour and torys don’t stand in ni plus sf don’t take their seats it will never be a big issue over here. A united ireland would suit any uk govt, however the south appears to have no interest in it, why would they want to take over a hornest nest ?


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 17 May 2021 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Now then - it seems as if Boris's lies are starting to come home to roost.

(As someone who lived in NI for 3 years during some 'difficult' years, I always thought that the so-called agreement WRT NI was a non-starter, since there was no way to appease both the Republicans and the Unionists over the issue.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57133682

Of course, since most people in GB don't give a toss for NI, this may not have electoral consequences - yet.
given labour and torys don’t stand in ni plus sf don’t take their seats it will never be a big issue over here. A united ireland would suit any uk govt, however the south appears to have no interest in it, why would they want to take over a hornest nest ?

In the meantime, if this issue leads to a significant upturn in civic disorder - or even terrorist activity - NI is still a part of the UK, and as such the responsibility for sorting it out will still ultimately lie with Johnson and the Tory government.


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 17 May 2021 at 1:41pm
Marching season will be upon us soon. Then it will go off again, tbh the annual catholic bashing season tends to go unreported by the uk most years, i’d expect nothing more this year. Bojo or any uk govt will be loathe to put uk army boots on the ground in any numbers the psni will have their hands full this summer


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 19 May 2021 at 10:18pm
I know this is a comparatively old article but I’ve only just seen it. If this was written in a sitcom it would be decried as too unrealistic!
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/boris-johnsons-new-ethics-adviser-works-for-arms-company/" rel="nofollow - https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/boris-johnsons-new-ethics-adviser-works-for-arms-company/


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 20 May 2021 at 12:36pm
In other news Drakeford and Welsh labour are lying and destroying people business


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 20 May 2021 at 7:55pm
To add to Boris' woes, his £840 per roll wallpaper is apparently peeling off already !


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 20 May 2021 at 10:00pm
In other new why has the government a cabinet  members 22 and the labour shadow cabinet have 32?


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 21 May 2021 at 1:36pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

In other news Drakeford and Welsh labour are lying and destroying people business

Wonderful stuff.

I look forward to your link to this story (if there is one).

If this is the standard of research and commentary we are to expect in the months to come, we are in for a real treat - thanks!


-------------
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 21 May 2021 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

In other news Drakeford and Welsh labour are lying and destroying people business

Wonderful stuff.

I look forward to your link to this story (if there is one).

If this is the standard of research and commentary we are to expect in the months to come, we are in for a real treat - thanks!
Well aren't you abit precious,  https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/mark-drakeford-stabbed-back-anger-20617929" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/mark-drakeford-stabbed-back-anger-20617929


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 21 May 2021 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

In other new why has the government a cabinet  members 22 and the labour shadow cabinet have 32?

Not sure how this figure is arrived at, but Labour only has 30 seats in the Senedd ? Where did you get 32 ?


Posted By: PenScarlet44
Date Posted: 21 May 2021 at 1:58pm
Did I mention the wag ? No Westminster 



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net