Print Page | Close Window

South Africa to replace Italy in the 6N

Printed From: Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets
Category: RUGBY
Forum Name: GENERAL RUGBY
Forum Description: Other rugby chat
URL: https://www.scarletfever.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46651
Printed Date: 08 August 2022 at 11:50pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: South Africa to replace Italy in the 6N
Posted By: totallybiasedscarlet
Subject: South Africa to replace Italy in the 6N
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 8:00am
https://nation.cymru/sport/south-africa-set-to-replace-italy-in-the-six-nations-in-2025/" rel="nofollow - https://nation.cymru/sport/south-africa-set-to-replace-italy-in-the-six-nations-in-2025/

-------------
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens



Replies:
Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 8:12am
If the Italians leave,I don't think anybody should replace them.There's enough international rugby ,and the 5 Nations was,and would be,a better and fairer tournament with all sides having an equal amount of away fixtures.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

If the Italians leave,I don't think anybody should replace them.There's enough international rugby ,and the 5 Nations was,and would be,a better and fairer tournament with all sides having an equal amount of away fixtures.

Knowing the WRU they would schedule in another out of window Autumn international to re-coup the money lost by losing the 3rd home fixture every other year.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 9:14am
Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 9:17am
I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 10:02am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 

Yep.......dancing with the devil.


Posted By: Jones2004
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 11:44am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 
Yes but they only have 1/7th of the shares don’t they? Surely the unions could just say no, and that would be the end of the matter. But that would require the unions to be the long term custodians of the growth of the game and not being all about chasing the money…


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 
Yes but they only have 1/7th of the shares don’t they? Surely the unions could just say no, and that would be the end of the matter. But that would require the unions to be the long term custodians of the growth of the game and not being all about chasing the money…

Do the Italians also have 1/7 of the shares ? If so they'd have to be bought out. Gets a little messy then handing their shares to, say Georgia, only to have to take them back the following season and then give them back from whence they came. 

Don't want to be a party pooper, but I don't think it is as easy as it sounds.


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
Relegation to a 2nd tier for a season would be a financial disaster for us. Why would we want to introduce that possibility when we have guaranteed £millions every year at the moment?


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
Relegation to a 2nd tier for a season would be a financial disaster for us. Why would we want to introduce that possibility when we have guaranteed £millions every year at the moment?

Well World rugby are on record as saying they want to spread the game & assist the tier 2 nations. Wales, among others, pledge to get behind that stance. Surely your not suggesting that was all talk & no trousers?????


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
Relegation to a 2nd tier for a season would be a financial disaster for us. Why would we want to introduce that possibility when we have guaranteed £millions every year at the moment?

Perhaps that's the incentive that the WRU need to shift their collective backsides !


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 1:31pm
It used to be said of BT that they were a huge pension fund with a trading entity on the side.

The WRU could be identified similarly. Maybe a hotel business with the inconvenience of professional rugby clubs.

Re the CVC stake, the capital sum was paid in return for a reduction in the clubs’ future competition income, iirc.

Has any of that capital sum found its way from the WRU to the 4 pro clubs, while we have to make do with that reduced competition income?


-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Mr Ian
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 1:42pm
the choiche of include Italy in 6N was only a political choice for a tournament of pair teams..at the same time arrived encouranging result from Italy but everybody knew that there was a deep difference between us and others and 20 years not enough for reduce the gap..at the same time we had a scellerate rugby politics and now leave the tournament is a natural effect of business rugby...
Italy has a price cash gratitude from cvc, they are not samaritans and look for the business, so is well for them include SA....
Italy lost his occasion, amen...


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_Europe_International_Championships

The 6 nations 2nd division has been around for 86 years. bottom side of 6 gets replaced by top team in the 2nd league (the trophy) But next year theyre going to have 8 teams in the top table , so no relegation for the next few seasons. 

Georgia are the dominant force, 14 championship wins, 13 grand slams. 

Attendances seem to vary greatly, georgia have had 20,000 russia 12,000 spain 10,000 but other games can fall as low as 1500 in romania.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Rugby_Europe_Championship" rel="nofollow - Championship PlWPts
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Spain 209
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Romania 208
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Georgia  *207
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Portugal 202
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Russia 201
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Netherlands 200
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021-22_Rugby_Europe_Trophy" rel="nofollow - Trophy PlWPts
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poland_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Poland 228
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Germany 216
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Belgium 115
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Ukraine 315
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuania_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Lithuania 315
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland_national_rugby_union_team" rel="nofollow - Switzerland 100


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 
Yes but they only have 1/7th of the shares don’t they? Surely the unions could just say no, and that would be the end of the matter. But that would require the unions to be the long term custodians of the growth of the game and not being all about chasing the money…

Do the Italians also have 1/7 of the shares ? If so they'd have to be bought out. Gets a little messy then handing their shares to, say Georgia, only to have to take them back the following season and then give them back from whence they came. 

Don't want to be a party pooper, but I don't think it is as easy as it sounds.
yes italy do so it’ll be extended to 7 nations or they will get a huge cash settlement to buy their share


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
Relegation to a 2nd tier for a season would be a financial disaster for us. Why would we want to introduce that possibility when we have guaranteed £millions every year at the moment?

Well World rugby are on record as saying they want to spread the game & assist the tier 2 nations. Wales, among others, pledge to get behind that stance. Surely your not suggesting that was all talk & no trousers?????
What “World Rugby” want and what the unions will allow to happen are two different things. The 6 Nations unions voting for promotion/relegation would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. World Rugby will have to find some other way to develop the global game that doesn’t disadvantage us. 


Posted By: totallybiasedscarlet
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 3:08pm
How would this affect Benneton & Zebre? Would they still compete in the URC?

-------------
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 3:34pm
Keep Italy and allow a 2 game play off with the top side in the 6 nations second division at the end of every 2 or 3 seasons. sorted.

-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

How would this affect Benneton & Zebre? Would they still compete in the URC?
They wouldn’t have enough money to pay for squads of the quality they have now. They’d probably drop to English Championship level teams level. 


Posted By: totallybiasedscarlet
Date Posted: 17 February 2022 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

How would this affect Benneton & Zebre? Would they still compete in the URC?
They wouldn’t have enough money to pay for squads of the quality they have now. They’d probably drop to English Championship level teams level. 

I'd imagine we'd likely see them leave the URC. Could that mean a return to a straightforward league? All this feels harsh on Italian rugby. Sadly their results in the 6N puts them in a precarious position. I do recall some time ago, the French and English calling into question Wales' participation in the then 5N on account of our results. There's a lot about this I don't like - the WRU should think very carefully about how they navigate this.


-------------
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 18 February 2022 at 7:11am
I’m not really a fan of ditching Italy. I am a fan of incorporating South Africa though.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 02 March 2022 at 6:19pm
Georgia, Zimbabwe and Kenya will join the Currie Cup 1st Division in SA next year.



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net