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New WRU payment deal

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Topic: New WRU payment deal
Posted By: scarletnut
Subject: New WRU payment deal
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 1:09pm
Details here of a new deal which will be tabled to the pro sides this week from WRU. Comes with a demand that benefactors return 

https://www.dai-sport.com/wru-tell-regions-heres-30m-for-your-players-its-mostly-a-loan-and-your-money-men-have-to-carry-the-risk/" rel="nofollow - https://www.dai-sport.com/wru-tell-regions-heres-30m-for-your-players-its-mostly-a-loan-and-your-money-men-have-to-carry-the-risk/


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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1



Replies:
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 1:21pm
Interesting any exact figures for each region?


Posted By: sospanman
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 2:40pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Details here of a new deal which will be tabled to the pro sides this week from WRU. Comes with a demand that benefactors return 

https://www.dai-sport.com/wru-tell-regions-heres-30m-for-your-players-its-mostly-a-loan-and-your-money-men-have-to-carry-the-risk/" rel="nofollow - https://www.dai-sport.com/wru-tell-regions-heres-30m-for-your-players-its-mostly-a-loan-and-your-money-men-have-to-carry-the-risk/
A very informative piece highlighting the limited vision and incompetence of the WRU. It is tantamount to saying "we will give you back some of your hard earned money, but as a loan." Bewildering state of affairs from a business perspective! Many of us have been calling for a long time for the regions to break free from the shackles of the WRU which only serve to fetter progress and restrict development of the professional game in Wales.



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Ymlaen Llanelli Scarlets


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 2:49pm
Proper journalism.
Liked the article on Fifita,too.Interesting to read Smith's remarks on Franks.He's quietly going about his business here,and I think the improvements have been plain.The forwards were very impressive on Friday,playing as a pack.I think Smith is spot on and Franks will be a successful coach.I only hope we can get things right behind the scrum asap,so we can get some success while Franks is still here.


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 3:37pm
The WRU are a disgrace amateurish and just thick selfish self serving little men, who are only concerned in staying on the overcrowded gravy train.



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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 3:49pm
Withhold players. Rip up agreements. Get lawyers in. Do anything possible to get change at the worst run Union in the game.

Steve Phillips wants 1 or 2 of our independent rugby teams gone. This is an attempt at putting us out of business the sly way. They need to be called out and Muderack needs to show backbone like Short and Gallacher did in the past.


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 3:49pm
The WRU is run by clowns who only want a slice of the pie. They couldn’t care less about the regions as long as the money keeps rolling in. Private ownership with benefactors is what welsh rugby needs.


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 4:12pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Withhold players. Rip up agreements. Get lawyers in. Do anything possible to get change at the worst run Union in the game.

Steve Phillips wants 1 or 2 of our independent rugby teams gone. This is an attempt at putting us out of business the sly way. They need to be called out and Muderack needs to show backbone like Short and Gallacher did in the past.


Hear,hear!


Posted By: Grammar School Boy
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 4:29pm
The WRU is not fit for purpose, and seem intent on limiting the viability of the pro game.


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 4:45pm
Could we mount a legal challenge over the CVC money? It's possible I guess.

My gut feeling, which is pure guesswork fed slightly by a few titbits I heard, is that we think we can ride this out, while others might not survive, and that's an outcome that would suit us


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We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 4:46pm
With the sale of Welsh URC shares meaning that it was the pro clubs income being reduced, sold, how on earth is it in any way proper governance for the pro clubs not to get all the capital involved in the sale of their own asset????

The stuff of Disney at the WRU. It’s as Mickey Mouse as you can get.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Could we mount a legal challenge over the CVC money? It's possible I guess.

My gut feeling, which is pure guesswork fed slightly by a few titbits I heard, is that we think we can ride this out, while others might not survive


That doesn't make it right. And doesn't sit well at all. Our own Union is trying to kill us. If we survived but Ospreys didn't because of this policy, and the debt being forced on us all, I think I would be done with the game.


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

With the sale of Welsh URC shares meaning that it was the pro clubs income being reduced, sold, how on earth is it in any way proper governance for the pro clubs not to get all the capital involved in the sale of their own asset????

The stuff of Disney at the WRU. It’s as Mickey Mouse as you can get.
All of the pro clubs failed dismally when signing up to project reset. They took on a huge increase in risk with no related increase in control.

This crap will continue as long as they have no shareholding in the competitions they play in.


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We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

With the sale of Welsh URC shares meaning that it was the pro clubs income being reduced, sold, how on earth is it in any way proper governance for the pro clubs not to get all the capital involved in the sale of their own asset????

The stuff of Disney at the WRU. It’s as Mickey Mouse as you can get.
All of the pro clubs failed dismally when signing up to project reset. They took on a huge increase in risk with no related increase in control.

This crap will continue as long as they have no shareholding in the competitions they play in.
Did Project Reset hand over our competition income? If not, it was still the pro clubs assets that were sold.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Seagultaf
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 7:05pm
So basically speaking: We will loan you some if your own money which you will have to pay back. But we (WRU) will manage the money but if we mess it up, you (the regions) take the hit!

Looks to me as though the WRU are taking advantage of the post COVID financial problems the region have, to drive some major changes in the professional game which they know the regions wont like. It will be interesting to see how the regions take this, I guess it depends how much trouble the regions are already in?


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 8:54pm
Does this really surprise anyone?? Shocking by WRU, and the regions need to show more balls by saying that they wont release their internationals outside the IRB window

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 10:07pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Could we mount a legal challenge over the CVC money? It's possible I guess.

My gut feeling, which is pure guesswork fed slightly by a few titbits I heard, is that we think we can ride this out, while others might not survive


That doesn't make it right. And doesn't sit well at all. Our own Union is trying to kill us. If we survived but Ospreys didn't because of this policy, and the debt being forced on us all, I think I would be done with the game.
I agree mate. “First they came for the Ospreys” etc.


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We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: Brainfart
Date Posted: 04 September 2022 at 10:48pm
Wrecking Rugby Union. Have they even left the twentieth century? Not far off 3 decades of professional rugby and they're as clueless as ever. They just want 2 pro sides to keep the Wales team ticking over, ruining everything for the non daff wearing true rugby supporters. For which there isn't too many left. I mean look at Pontypridd v Cardiff last night, the supposed House of Pain was hardly packed to the rafters. And I can't see more than 10k - if that, turning up to the Parc in a couple of weeks. The sport is dying here. Its on its knees. 


Posted By: Grammar School Boy
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 12:38am
Originally posted by Brainfart Brainfart wrote:

Wrecking Rugby Union. Have they even left the twentieth century? Not far off 3 decades of professional rugby and they're as clueless as ever. They just want 2 pro sides to keep the Wales team ticking over, ruining everything for the non daff wearing true rugby supporters. For which there isn't too many left. I mean look at Pontypridd v Cardiff last night, the supposed House of Pain was hardly packed to the rafters. And I can't see more than 10k - if that, turning up to the Parc in a couple of weeks. The sport is dying here. Its on its knees. 


..and the WRU is doing its best to ensure it has complete control


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 7:15am
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Withhold players. Rip up agreements. Get lawyers in. Do anything possible to get change at the worst run Union in the game.

Steve Phillips wants 1 or 2 of our independent rugby teams gone. This is an attempt at putting us out of business the sly way. They need to be called out and Muderack needs to show backbone like Short and Gallacher did in the past.

Firstly thanks Steff. Secondly I am wholeheartedly behind Kid A's suggestions. Time for concerted action by ALL regions  - first step remove all players from International duty.


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 10:09am
Every time player release compensation has increased it's been balanced out by extra power for the WRU, it's probably now at the stalemate where neither party think they can 'win' the latest battle and it's now at the point of absurd suggestions like loans. The only thing that has never had to compromise is the national team.

Personally I think a much simpler funding process is needed where it's simply down to release campaign by campaign and a few easy development metrics, it does mean that there's more risk with the clubs because you could go from having a dozen in the national squad to one or 2 depending on form and fitness but that's what competitive sport and business is about, sitting in a comfort zone clearly doesn't work.

I can't see anything changing anytime soon though, there's no internal pressure on the WRU so they can afford to keep on dancing this not so merry dance whilst the national team continue to get everything it needs.

I do wonder what could have been achieved if the resources going into these discussions was used for something else, maybe it's time we walked away from the table and found out.


Posted By: pillory
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 10:48am
Re: withholding players - A region would want a lawyer's opinion on exposure to action from players re: denial of earning potential with Wales.


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 05 September 2022 at 5:27pm
Originally posted by pillory pillory wrote:

Re: withholding players - A region would want a lawyer's opinion on exposure to action from players re: denial of earning potential with Wales.
The lawyer would be more interested in the wording of the contract between region and WRU.

IRB reg 9 means we have to release 5 days before any international in the agreed window. Not the 4th AI.


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We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 11:33am
Muderack has, thankfully, come out swinging  -  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704

TL:DR version is more debt for the regions is not an option, the benefactor model belongs in the 70's, the WRU needs to agree a multi-year deal so the regions can make multi-year plans like any normal business would, all 4 regions are resolute on this. Oh, and also he seems to suggest he's asking ECPR and URC for finals games to be held at the Parc, reading between the lines


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 11:28pm
Another fantastic article Dai Sport. 

Simon putting the word out on BBC. We are all aware and I like that its in the public eye. Talks have begun but i won’t read too much into that. The next step would be to have some sort of campaign at each match making supporters more aware of the issues. 


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 11:46pm
Some very interesting and informed comments on here. Can I thank all who have contributed.
It's great that Simon, our CEO, has highlighted these issues now, as WRU cannot then say, they were not warned.
Covid obviously dented WRU coffers, like everyone else, but they have other revenue streams coming in.
It's certainly a worrying situation, look at Worcester!
Think it's a case of "watch this space" now", and see whether there is a response from WRU



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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 09 September 2022 at 11:55pm
Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Muderack has, thankfully, come out swinging  -  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704

TL:DR version is more debt for the regions is not an option, the benefactor model belongs in the 70's, the WRU needs to agree a multi-year deal so the regions can make multi-year plans like any normal business would, all 4 regions are resolute on this. Oh, and also he seems to suggest he's asking ECPR and URC for finals games to be held at the Parc, reading between the lines
stadium size an issue for european finals so is hotel soace, why not look at being hone for wales women football and rugby and under 20/21 rugby and football?


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 12 September 2022 at 10:30am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Muderack has, thankfully, come out swinging  -  https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704" rel="nofollow - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/62827704

TL:DR version is more debt for the regions is not an option, the benefactor model belongs in the 70's, the WRU needs to agree a multi-year deal so the regions can make multi-year plans like any normal business would, all 4 regions are resolute on this. Oh, and also he seems to suggest he's asking ECPR and URC for finals games to be held at the Parc, reading between the lines
stadium size an issue for european finals so is hotel soace, why not look at being hone for wales women football and rugby and under 20/21 rugby and football?

Good suggestions there tbh mate - I think there's a political will to keep the under 20's in the north but surely as most of the players ae based between Llanelli-Newport it makes far more sense to have them based down here.
Wales women rugby would be good too, same reason. 

I can't see the football ones panning out, purely because once deadpool and his mate have finished revamping the racecourse they will push hard with a lot of clout at the welsh FA for those fixtures I'd imagine.

Something you see a lot of elite-level football clubs do in pre season is to hold a mini tournament at their stadium (emirates cup etc), If everyone uses 2 different starting teams you could easily pack a few games in over a weekend or just hold over 2 weekends.  The realities of doing that are obviously difficult to organise but it's an idea we could utilise and try to sell the tv rights off privately (split between the competing teams of course) without WRU/URC taking a cut?


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 12 September 2022 at 11:27am
Slight tangent but catching up on a few podcasts recently which as usual referenced the tail wagging the dog when it comes to the structure of Welsh rugby, but as usual there were no specific examples of the amateur element of various WRU boards blocking money/changes at pro level.

Don't get me wrong I completely agree that the structure needs to change, decision making is slower and it's not a fit for purpose model but they take their steer from the 'professionals' and I'm not aware of any proposals to use the CVC funding to solve short term challenges, restructuring of debt or amending the compensation for player release set up getting to them or being opposed by them.

They may not be (or almost certainly aren't) challenging the executive team to address these problems but it seems like all the control is sitting with a very, very small group of people.

It continues to feel like getting around the table isn't getting us anywhere so might be time to walk away.


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 3:21pm
Didn't want to start a new thread and this one seems quite appropriate to bolt onto but feels like now might be an opportune moment to join the English set up.

The last few years haven't really felt like it would fit into the English agenda as they've seemed pretty content with their set up but with financial worries around Worcester and Wasps, the London Irish owner looking to sell up, poor crowds at some clubs like Sale and Newcastle and discussions around promotion/relegation and the size of the English league it feels like there may be a window of opportunity.

There's also been question marks around the environmental impact of the URC which will likely grow and Europe feels like it's being increasingly marginalised with the format changes.

Personally I'd happily take 2 tiers of 10 pro teams (bottom 3 prem teams relegated, 4 Welsh and 3 from the championship) with 2 up/down every season. The Scottish teams could easily fit into this as well with 2 leagues of 12.

It makes pretty much every game driveable, grows crowds and matchday income, gives the leagues jeopardy and adds an extra dimension to the leagues with old rivalries renewed.

Rugby is trying to spread itself too widely and it's just a matter of time imo before we lose clubs and change is forced, might as well address it before we get to that point.


Posted By: 157cb
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 4:41pm

  Apparently five English clubs having  major financial problems. 


Posted By: Rob Hunt
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:


  Apparently five English clubs having  major financial problems. 
Saw an article a few weeks ago reporting debts as:
Wasps £112million, Bristol £57million (reported elsewhere as £51million), Saracens £40million, Newcastle £39 million, Bath £37million.



Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 6:12pm
No way do we want to join that crazy English league... we are in the best league now... world champions,  best teams in Europe.... its not the league that needs changing its the lack of our ability to win....I dont think its the players but the coaches that hold us back... focus on coaches will be better than trying to sign expend players


Posted By: Realwest
Date Posted: 21 September 2022 at 6:16pm
Wasps look to be going into administration as they have missed payments they are due to make as per premiership guidance they should be automatically relegated

Worcester also have failed to pay staff and will possibly not be able to play in their next fixture


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 1:03pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

No way do we want to join that crazy English league... we are in the best league now... world champions,  best teams in Europe.... its not the league that needs changing its the lack of our ability to win....I dont think its the players but the coaches that hold us back... focus on coaches will be better than trying to sign expend players

Although coaching is obviously a factor in success it's hard to argue that finances, population and player availability amongst other things don't have a big impact on our ability to compete, and playing in a league where there is no mechanisms (i.e. wage caps, agreed release across the league) to create a reasonably level playing field then we're relying on once a generation luck in terms of player and coaching quality which isn't a consistent model.

In the league we're basically competing with the Irish national team in Leinster to win it and the approach various governing bodies decide to go with has a huge bearing on our ability to compete consistently, this is why there's so much apathy towards the league and has been for over a decade.

We can put as much hope and faith in the team as we want but ultimately we're not in control of our own destiny, and personally I'd rather be on a more level playing field with less variables (which would involve a different compensation model for player release with our union) and take it to the English.

Or we can just cross our fingers.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 3:10pm
If population is an issue with the irish itll be a bigger issue with the english? I’m all for joining tbh but realistixally we would be in a relegation scrap most years


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 3:25pm
Like I said its one of the factors, amongst many others.

Only Bristol have a higher population than Dublin and Glasgow. Obviously the South Africans populations are much much higher.

But there's no point in getting hung up on one factor, its the collection of factors that needs to be looked at as a whole.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Like I said its one of the factors, amongst many others.

Only Bristol have a higher population than Dublin and Glasgow. Obviously the South Africans populations are much much higher.

But there's no point in getting hung up on one factor, its the collection of factors that needs to be looked at as a whole.
 your cutting out the london clubs there surely? Not to mention newcastle


Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

No way do we want to join that crazy English league... we are in the best league now... world champions,  best teams in Europe.... its not the league that needs changing its the lack of our ability to win....I dont think its the players but the coaches that hold us back... focus on coaches will be better than trying to sign expend players

to get better coaches, you need better revenue streams. If we joined the English Prem then I would say that there is a very high probability that our revenue streams will increase due to larger attendances.

For me personally, I couldn't care less about playing the lions, bulls, or any team from the other countries tbh.... hell I'd even consider after finishing my training to move back to Wales to have quality opposition that is within daily travelling distance (Apart from Newcastle) week in week out....

The URC is a bag of poo. The Irish don't care about it, The Scots are only in it as there isn't a scottish alternative. The Italian teams have improved, but that hasn't been replicated properly through the international team and don't get me started on the saffers. 


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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 3:51pm
Well there's 3 London (ish) clubs but they've got football to compete with. Like I said its just 1 factor of many.




Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Like I said its one of the factors, amongst many others.

Only Bristol have a higher population than Dublin and Glasgow. Obviously the South Africans populations are much much higher.

But there's no point in getting hung up on one factor, its the collection of factors that needs to be looked at as a whole.

Manchester?


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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 4:01pm
You mean sale?

For the 3rd time population was 1 of many factors so let's not get hung up on it just to win a small battle.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

If population is an issue with the irish itll be a bigger issue with the english? I’m all for joining tbh but realistixally we would be in a relegation scrap most years
Given the governance of the game in Wales I'd say that would happen whatever league we are in.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 4:30pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Well there's 3 London (ish) clubs but they've got football to compete with. Like I said its just 1 factor of many.


btw i want us to
 Join and anglo english lge


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

If population is an issue with the irish itll be a bigger issue with the english? I’m all for joining tbh but realistixally we would be in a relegation scrap most years
Relegation won't be around much longer. That's not the worry.


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We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 8:03pm
PRL have a salary cap which is a positive for us. They also shop in a pool of similar salary expectations.
Leinster and Munster and possibly Ulster have budgets we will never match. 

The SA teams have in recent years begun access to a huge pool of young, black athletically gifted and frankly poor population, so do really well on a very small budget. 

PRL is run by and for its clubs. It often battles the RFU in order to preserve the integrity of the competition. URC is owned by the unions and therefore has totally different priorities.

PRL won't allow multiple clubs owned by the same entity. Everyone has to be genuinely fighting to beat the others. The IRFU and SRU can tell their clubs to do anything, put out weakened teams, transfer players in-between clubs etc. 

You don't need to worry about air travel to go to an away game in the PRL. Whether it's £££ or carbon footprint or just multiple days lost travelling, that's a massive bonus.


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We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 8:09pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

PRL have a salary cap which is a positive for us. They also shop in a pool of similar salary expectations.
Leinster and Munster and possibly Ulster have budgets we will never match. 

The SA teams have in recent years begun access to a huge pool of young, black athletically gifted and frankly poor population, so do really well on a very small budget. 

PRL is run by and for its clubs. It often battles the RFU in order to preserve the integrity of the competition. URC is owned by the unions and therefore has totally different priorities.

PRL won't allow multiple clubs owned by the same entity. Everyone has to be genuinely fighting to beat the others. The IRFU and SRU can tell their clubs to do anything, put out weakened teams, transfer players in-between clubs etc. 

You don't need to worry about air travel to go to an away game in the PRL. Whether it's £££ or carbon footprint or just multiple days lost travelling, that's a massive bonus.
fairly decent kick off times


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 8:58pm
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

PRL have a salary cap which is a positive for us. They also shop in a pool of similar salary expectations.
Leinster and Munster and possibly Ulster have budgets we will never match. 

The SA teams have in recent years begun access to a huge pool of young, black athletically gifted and frankly poor population, so do really well on a very small budget. 

PRL is run by and for its clubs. It often battles the RFU in order to preserve the integrity of the competition. URC is owned by the unions and therefore has totally different priorities.

PRL won't allow multiple clubs owned by the same entity. Everyone has to be genuinely fighting to beat the others. The IRFU and SRU can tell their clubs to do anything, put out weakened teams, transfer players in-between clubs etc. 

You don't need to worry about air travel to go to an away game in the PRL. Whether it's £££ or carbon footprint or just multiple days lost travelling, that's a massive bonus.
Spot on 

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 27 September 2022 at 9:04pm
So given all that why would the wru agree to this?


Posted By: crj89
Date Posted: 28 September 2022 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

PRL have a salary cap which is a positive for us. They also shop in a pool of similar salary expectations.
Leinster and Munster and possibly Ulster have budgets we will never match. 

The SA teams have in recent years begun access to a huge pool of young, black athletically gifted and frankly poor population, so do really well on a very small budget. 

PRL is run by and for its clubs. It often battles the RFU in order to preserve the integrity of the competition. URC is owned by the unions and therefore has totally different priorities.

PRL won't allow multiple clubs owned by the same entity. Everyone has to be genuinely fighting to beat the others. The IRFU and SRU can tell their clubs to do anything, put out weakened teams, transfer players in-between clubs etc. 

You don't need to worry about air travel to go to an away game in the PRL. Whether it's £££ or carbon footprint or just multiple days lost travelling, that's a massive bonus.
Spot on 

The salary cap would be a massive bonus for us, I say if there’s the slightest of chance that we could join the English league then we have to take it. Away days be superb as a travelling fan.

We’re peeing in the wind when it comes to the URC at times when it doesn’t have a salary cap and allows teams spend 3 times what others can.


Posted By: Kentexile
Date Posted: 28 September 2022 at 10:34pm
Held a Harlequins season ticket for a couple of seasons a few years back (a sad confession).Didn’t get large numbers of away fans to games and when I travelled not too many made the trip either.Half the English Premiership gets better attendances than us (Scarlets)and half the same or worse and without benefactors with deep pockets it is a financial basket case despite all the hype.


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 1:30am
Thanks Kent exile ....we need our wannabees to remove their rose tinted glasses 


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 8:41am
I don't think anyone thinks we'll be winning titles year on year in front of full houses, it's about what's the most appealing and sustainable long term option.

I'm not a fan of unions having so much control over the league and clubs, I don't particularly like competitions that change so drastically on a frequent basis, I'd prefer a relatively level playing field.

The English and French leagues have their faults, and no-one can protect a company totally from mismanagement, but at least their failure or success is largely up to the individual clubs and can't be dictated by their unions.

I want us to be in control of our success or failure, not various unions.

The highest budget has won the URC for 4 of the last 5 years, and last years winner was a team that went into administration and their union took over. Whatever your thoughts on union's roles in rugby that's not ideal is it.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 9:02am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

I don't think anyone thinks we'll be winning titles year on year in front of full houses, it's about what's the most appealing and sustainable long term option.

I'm not a fan of unions having so much control over the league and clubs, I don't particularly like competitions that change so drastically on a frequent basis, I'd prefer a relatively level playing field.

The English and French leagues have their faults, and no-one can protect a company totally from mismanagement, but at least their failure or success is largely up to the individual clubs and can't be dictated by their unions.

I want us to be in control of our success or failure, not various unions.

The highest budget has won the URC for 4 of the last 5 years, and last years winner was a team that went into administration and their union took over. Whatever your thoughts on union's roles in rugby that's not ideal is it.

Could not agree more. The level playing field principle is what we really need to get to or as near as humanly possible. The alternative long term picture otherwise can be seen by the football Premier League where Middle Eastern/Russian or American crooks/entrepreneurs dictate.

A British & Irish league would be the ideal with clubs taking centre stage in negotiating contracts and release of players under contract. Of course a salary cap would cause immense issues for the Irish sides but so what? They could either sign up or join their South African colleagues or indeed formulate their own Irish league as they seem to have plenty of funding available.  Northern Hemisphere rugby is at a crossroads with far more clubs struggling than thriving. The status quo is not an option despite it seemingly satisfying some clubs. 


Posted By: KID A
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 1:35pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

A British & Irish league would be the ideal with clubs taking centre stage in negotiating contracts and release of players under contract.


I don't agree with this anymore. I don't want to be in any competition with Union owned clubs. All they do is lookout for the test game above the domestic game. You can see that at the moment with the IRFU taking 30 players out of the URC and over to South Africa for a tour whilst URC games are taking place. That is bringing the game into disrepute and would never happen in England or France.

We need an Anglo Welsh league.



Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

A British & Irish league would be the ideal with clubs taking centre stage in negotiating contracts and release of players under contract.


I don't agree with this anymore. I don't want to be in any competition with Union owned clubs. All they do is lookout for the test game above the domestic game. You can see that at the moment with the IRFU taking 30 players out of the URC and over to South Africa for a tour whilst URC games are taking place. That is bringing the game into disrepute and would never happen in England or France.

We need an Anglo Welsh league.


That was the point I was making, albeit not well, in saying that clubs should take centre stage. No more Union sponsored/owner clubs. 


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 1:56pm
We may as well sign up to the RFU as second class options , I think we could do well playing in Div 3 


Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

We may as well sign up to the RFU as second class options , I think we could do well playing in Div 3 

I'd rather do that than continue in this sh*t show called the URC...


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They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 2:41pm
players are up for strike action according to WOL


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

players are up for strike action according to WOL


No surprise there.....some of the boys been on a go-slow for two years


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 6:48pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

We may as well sign up to the RFU as second class options , I think we could do well playing in Div 3 

I'd rather do that than continue in this sh*t show called the URC...

Thats just a stupid throw away comment ...I thought you were better than that 


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

We may as well sign up to the RFU as second class options , I think we could do well playing in Div 3 

I'd rather do that than continue in this sh*t show called the URC...

Thats just a stupid throw away comment ...I thought you were better than that 
was it jake or elwood blues who saw the light?Wink


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 7:42pm
Not sure but 100% certain it wasn't stevie wonderLOL


Posted By: Cofi
Date Posted: 29 September 2022 at 9:15pm
Not directly to do with the WRU deal but,
disappointed to see that Llandovery Coll have signed a new deal with Cardiff (Blues) enabling a clear player pathway. Does this negate the partnership they had with us?  With numerous scholarships the school is no longer only for the rich, it enabled many north/mid wales players their 1st access to top level coaching and strength and conditioning programmes. I hope they continue to support a player pathway to the Scarlets- Daf Hughes is testament to that success.


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 30 September 2022 at 7:43am
Originally posted by Cofi Cofi wrote:

Not directly to do with the WRU deal but,
disappointed to see that Llandovery Coll have signed a new deal with Cardiff (Blues) enabling a clear player pathway. Does this negate the partnership they had with us?  With numerous scholarships the school is no longer only for the rich, it enabled many north/mid wales players their 1st access to top level coaching and strength and conditioning programmes. I hope they continue to support a player pathway to the Scarlets- Daf Hughes is testament to that success.
That is disappointing news.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 30 September 2022 at 8:04am
They've got partnerships with the Ospreys and Dragons already so not a surprise, albeit yes very disappointing.

This all feels a bit messy now, the school/college/club game was reasonably well aligned and now you'll have players from other regions blocking the places of people in the region.

If you want areas to buy into their nearest pro team you ideally want a collective backing in the community and this sort of thing doesn't really drive that.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 30 September 2022 at 8:36am
Foxy is now a pundit on the Good the Bad & the Rugby podcast & he was talking about there needs to be better links between the Premiership sides & the regions. He spoke about how regional players need to see it more as pride for representing local club sides than being relegated to their squads. 




Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 30 September 2022 at 8:58am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Cofi Cofi wrote:

Not directly to do with the WRU deal but,
disappointed to see that Llandovery Coll have signed a new deal with Cardiff (Blues) enabling a clear player pathway. Does this negate the partnership they had with us?  With numerous scholarships the school is no longer only for the rich, it enabled many north/mid wales players their 1st access to top level coaching and strength and conditioning programmes. I hope they continue to support a player pathway to the Scarlets- Daf Hughes is testament to that success.
That is disappointing news.
They’ve had deals with all the four Welsh pro sides for the past decade. They’ve never been solely dedicated to the Scarlets development wise 

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 30 September 2022 at 9:00am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Cofi Cofi wrote:

Not directly to do with the WRU deal but,
disappointed to see that Llandovery Coll have signed a new deal with Cardiff (Blues) enabling a clear player pathway. Does this negate the partnership they had with us?  With numerous scholarships the school is no longer only for the rich, it enabled many north/mid wales players their 1st access to top level coaching and strength and conditioning programmes. I hope they continue to support a player pathway to the Scarlets- Daf Hughes is testament to that success.
That is disappointing news.
They’ve had deals with all the four Welsh pro sides for the past decade. They’ve never been solely dedicated to the Scarlets development wise 

It would be surprising if this wasn't the case.First and foremost,private education is about making money,in spite of tbe charitable status of the schools.Money talks.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 30 September 2022 at 10:28am
In recent years the Scarlets have used Llandovery to tempt good young talent. Brecon provides a similar service. The problem we have of course when comparing with the English systems is that places like Hartbury offer educational opportunities from 16-21 whereas it ends at A level at Brecon & Llandovery I think. 


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 30 September 2022 at 11:08am
I get it from an educational point of view and it gives youngsters more options, it just means that we'll need to work a bit harder to keep/tempt new talent as the route to where they go and end up is increasingly up for grabs.



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