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2022/23 Squad

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Topic: 2022/23 Squad
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Subject: 2022/23 Squad
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 10:04am
I have tried to be totally cut throat in assessing our squad for next season. Long term injuries, retirements in the case of Sione ( age), Foxy ( age), Halfpenny ( age), Owens ( age), Rawlins ( head injury) & Blade ( head injury) have been omitted as have players who do not feature now despite our injury crisis. The result is pretty tough reading.

Back 3 : McNicholl, Nicholas, Conbeer, Rogers
Centres : Roberts, Baldwin, Scott, Johnny Williams, Eddie James
10's : Costelow
9's : Blacker, Archie Hughes

8's  : Carwyn
7's : McLoud, Dan Thomas
6's : Fifita

2nd Rows : Louisi, Jac Price, Morgan Jones

Loose Heads : Wyn, Steff, Kemsley, Sam O'Connor
Hooker : Elias, Daf, Taylor, Shaun
Tight Head : O'Connor, Javan

That gives us 29. Of course I will have missed some but the extent of the recruitment required to get our squad competitive suggests to me that we are looking at a longer term project than one season. Clearly the trend in Welsh rugby at the moment is smaller squads but look how exposed we are at the moment with 16/17 unavailable - where do you draw the line? 

Will the answer be to attempt to sign a small number of proven performers mainly NWQ & make up the numbers from the feeder clubs as and when circumstances dictate - along the lines of Shenton & Griff Evans from Llandovery. 




Replies:
Posted By: Owen111
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 11:39am
Feels harsh to say as hes still young and gets limited game time but Baldwin doesnt cut it for me. 

I'd be keeping Lezana too, dog of a player like Ed Kennedy


Posted By: 157cb
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 12:30pm
..
  Kalamafoni will be like Titatia if he wants and plays until 38 or 39. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 12:34pm
I think Javan may be off to Edinburgh at some point. 


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Feels harsh to say as hes still young and gets limited game time but Baldwin doesnt cut it for me. 

I'd be keeping Lezana too, dog of a player like Ed Kennedy
I would like to see Baldwin given a decent run in the side before we talk about getting rid of him. 


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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 1:03pm
I had high hopes for both Cory & Dan Davis, fueled I would admit partly by the fact that they are local boys to me - Llandeilo. I have not given up but the future is looking bleaker for Dan with injuries and not making the most of his chances. I want to see Cory given the same number & type of opportunities as Dan before dismissing his chances. He is a 13 who can finish & is as quick as most in our backline. 


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Feels harsh to say as hes still young and gets limited game time but Baldwin doesnt cut it for me. 

I'd be keeping Lezana too, dog of a player like Ed Kennedy
I would like to see Baldwin given a decent run in the side before we talk about getting rid of him. 
How many times have we got the ball to him


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 3:10pm
Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.


Posted By: bydder
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.
I thought some of the players live in Cardiff anyway?


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N11


Posted By: sospanman
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 6:18pm
Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.
Speak for yourself Bermuda boy. I have had to live in several "glamorous" cities including overseas and Cardiff. Couldn't wait to get back to Llanelli and wouldn't swap it for anywhere.


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Ymlaen Llanelli Scarlets


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.
A lot of Kiwi’s prefer rural areas like west Wales to big cities like London and Paris. It’s all about money 

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: Llanelli1963
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 7:19pm
Originally posted by sospanman sospanman wrote:

Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.
Speak for yourself Bermuda boy. I have had to live in several "glamorous" cities including overseas and Cardiff. Couldn't wait to get back to Llanelli and wouldn't swap it for anywhere.
lol 


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by sospanman sospanman wrote:

Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.
Speak for yourself Bermuda boy. I have had to live in several "glamorous" cities including overseas and Cardiff. Couldn't wait to get back to Llanelli and wouldn't swap it for anywhere.
I would hardly describe Lincoln as Bermuda the cathedral is nice but steep hill is a killer Big smile


Posted By: sospanman
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by sospanman sospanman wrote:

Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.
Speak for yourself Bermuda boy. I have had to live in several "glamorous" cities including overseas and Cardiff. Couldn't wait to get back to Llanelli and wouldn't swap it for anywhere.
I would hardly describe Lincoln as Bermuda the cathedral is nice but steep hill is a killer Big smile
Have you not noticed his "location"?


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Ymlaen Llanelli Scarlets


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 25 October 2022 at 9:16pm
LOL


Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 5:02am
Taking the same approach as you re: no emotions and logic, so I've split my departing players into 3 groups a full/semi retirement, a personal reasons and a release group.

Retire: Halfpenny, Jon Davies, Gar Davies, Kalamafoni, Shingler, Rawlins, Owens, P Price
Personal: McNicholl, Thomson, Sebastian
Release: St Evans, Patchell, T Price, Helps, WGJ, Jeffries, Sh Evans

BACK 3;
Tom Rogers, Ryan Conbeer, Ioan Nicholas, Callum Williams, (Iolo Griffiths, Academy)
Leigh Halfpenny, Johnny McNicholl, Steff Evans
CENTRE;
Johnny Williams, Scott Williams, Joe Roberts, Corey Baldwin, (Eddie James & Iestyn Gwilliam, Academy)
Jonathan Davies
FLY-HALF;
Sam Costelow, Dan Jones, (Josh Phillips & Tal Rees, Academy)
Rhys Patchell
SCRUM-HALF;
Kieran Hardy, Dane Blacker, Archie Hughes, Harri Williams
Gareth Davies
BACK ROW;
Josh Macleod, Tomas Lezana, Carwyn Tuipolotu, Dan Davis, Iestyn Rees, Iwan Shenton, (Luca Giannini, Academy)
Aaron Shingler, Blade Thomson, Sione Kalamafoni
LOCK;
Sam Lousi, Vaea Fifita, Jac Price, Morgan Jones, Griff Evans, (Caleb Salmon, Academy)
Tom Price, Josh Helps, Lewis Rawlins
TIGHT-HEAD;
Samson Lee, Harri O'Connor
Will Griff John, Javan Sebastian, Alex Jeffries
HOOKER;
Ryan Elias, Dafydd Hughes, Taylor Davies, (Lewis Morgan, Academy)
Ken Owens, Shaun Evans
LOOSE-HEAD;
Wyn Jones, Steffan Thomas, Kemsley Mathias, (Sam O'Connor, Academy)
Phil Price
Squad Total: 33 (42 incl. Academy)

Based on this I would imagine we would be recruiting into the senior squad;
Back 3 - 1 or 2
Fly-Half - 1
Back Row - 1 or 2
Tight-Head - 2
And then there'd be a few academy/development player signings on top.

Squad Total: 38/40 (47+ incl. Academy) which I feel is about right, the 40 player mark.

The retiring group is pretty much self explanatory, I'd love to get another season out of a few of them I just don't see them reaching above 85% of their best.
I think both McNicholl and Blade will head back home post-RWC as that's the main reason they came and once it's gone they wont be around for the next one. Similar with Sebastian being Scottish based will help him.
It's difficult when you're taking someone's job away from them and I don't envy whoever is having these conversations with the players.
Steff Evans, Patchell, Tom Price, Will Griff John and Jeffries are not at the required level anymore to be worth re-contracting. 
I really didn't want to put Josh Helps or Shaun Evans in here, unfortunately we have too many quality hookers to keep Shaun as well and unless we see a drastic change is Helps physical game I don't see a place for him.

DISCLAIMER:
These are my own opinions, not any other persons or groups. Opinion is subject to change throughout the season pending performances.


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As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 6:36am
I don't know the exact details, but quite a few guys listed are not out of contract, some that are talked about as being around in the future, are out. So it's all speculation, but with good intent. 23 players out of contract offers up lots of interesting possibilities.

Our NWQ players generally haven't delivered for us (Kalamafoni being the massive exception).
I don't mean by this that they aren't good players, but if we are being cut throat then these are the guys that we invested in, quite heavily I'd imagine, to be around to bring experience ,and ideally leadership, plus be available in the key international windows.
A cocktail of injuries, suspensions and call ups have prevented that. Lousi and Fifita are great players, and when in the shirt, do deliver, but they won't be on the plane to SA due to a mix of suspensions and call ups by Tonga ( worried Kalamafoni could could called up to...who could blame Tonga for that).

Sebastien wasn't called up by Scotland this time ( but was in previous campaigns), and will be the next taxi off the rank if there's a Scotland prop injury.

Likewise Lezana and Thomson have been part of international squads ( maybe not so going forward), but have also missed a lot of rugby recently.

Purely speculatively, I think Lezana, Sebastien and Thomson may move on.
Likewise it's clear that Patchell isn't first choice for the 10 shirt this season, I guess that to signals an exit. WGJ clearly hasn't put a marker down and doesn't seem to have fitted in for whatever reason, and is now our 3rd choice TH.
One of the 3 SH's will move on, it's one of either Blacker of Hardy.

That alone is quite a few shirts to fill, some of which we can see coming through the system, but some are not so clear.

As a point of interest our average squad age surprised me at 26 years and 7 months, it's younger than both Cardiff (27 years and 8 months) and the Ospreys (27 years and 5 months), and is exactly the same as Leinster's.





Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 6:41am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I don't know the exact details, but quite a few guys listed are not out of contract, some that are talked about as being around in the future, are out. So it's all speculation, but with good intent. 23 players out of contract offers up lots of interesting possibilities.

Our NWQ players generally haven't delivered for us (Kalamafoni being the massive exception).
I don't mean by this that they aren't good players, but if we are being cut throat then these are the guys that we invested in, quite heavily I'd imagine, to be around to bring experience ,and ideally leadership, plus be available in the key international windows.
A cocktail of injuries, suspensions and call ups have prevented that. Lousi and Fifita are great players, and when in the shirt, do deliver, but they won't be on the plane to SA due to a mix of suspensions and call ups by Tonga ( worried Kalamafoni could could called up to...who could blame Tonga for that).

Sebastien wasn't called up by Scotland this time ( but was in previous campaigns), and will be the next taxi off the rank if there's a Scotland prop injury.

Likewise Lezana and Thomson have been part of international squads ( maybe not so going forward), but have also missed a lot of rugby recently.

Purely speculatively, I think Lezana, Sebastien and Thomson may move on.
Likewise it's clear that Patchell isn't first choice for the 10 shirt this season, I guess that to signals an exit. WGJ clearly hasn't put a marker down and doesn't seem to have fitted in for whatever reason, and is now our 3rd choice TH.
One of the 3 SH's will move on, it's one of either Blacker of Hardy.

That alone is quite a few shirts to fill, some of which we can see coming through the system, but some are not so clear.

As a point of interest our average squad age surprised me at 26 years and 7 months, it's younger than both Cardiff (27 years and 8 months) and the Ospreys (27 years and 5 months), and is exactly the same as Leinster's.



Our average squad age may be younger but Dwayne idea of our first team will be markedly older I would guess. 


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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 8:19am
It's probably diluted by injuries a bit this season, but the likes of Carwyn, Joe Roberts, Tom Rogers, Kemsley, Jac Price, Morgan Jones and a couple of others are either now available or imminently so, will be sure fire way of testing that theory out. All have game time under their belts previously. I guess Archie Hughes/Harri Williams will feature this week, maybe Josh Lewis and Eddie James in the 23 too.




Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 8:25am
I'd like to see Carwyn get some game time to help him develop so we can see more of him. Would also like to see him carrying the ball as a second receiver so he's not running into traffic. 


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 8:47am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

It's probably diluted by injuries a bit this season, but the likes of Carwyn, Joe Roberts, Tom Rogers, Kemsley, Jac Price, Morgan Jones and a couple of others are either now available or imminently so, will be sure fire way of testing that theory out. All have game time under their belts previously. I guess Archie Hughes/Harri Williams will feature this week, maybe Josh Lewis and Eddie James in the 23 too.



The thing is he is going to have to pick those players soon whether he wants to or not,  as the likes of halfpenny, ken and Hardy are with Wales Kalamafoni needs a week or two off. Injuries and suspension to other senior players also will dictate he has to go for those players mentioned. We will at least see if they are up to the job if not then we really are in a poor place as they are the best of our young blood coming through. 


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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I'd like to see Carwyn get some game time to help him develop so we can see more of him. Would also like to see him carrying the ball as a second receiver so he's not running into traffic. 


I thought the whole point was for him to run into traffic.


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 9:16am
Originally posted by sospanman sospanman wrote:

Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.
Speak for yourself Bermuda boy. I have had to live in several "glamorous" cities including overseas and Cardiff. Couldn't wait to get back to Llanelli and wouldn't swap it for anywhere.

I fully agree with you, having neighbours in a village is bad enough let alone being in the big smoke.  But there's literally millions who don't agree.  Like.....young men with lots of disposable income, or players with families settled near London..... unfortunately it's a factor for a lot of players in all sports.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 9:17am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I'd like to see Carwyn get some game time to help him develop so we can see more of him. Would also like to see him carrying the ball as a second receiver so he's not running into traffic. 


I thought the whole point was for him to run into traffic.

The whole point is to make metres and get across the gainline allowing quick next phase ball. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 9:17am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I'd like to see Carwyn get some game time to help him develop so we can see more of him. Would also like to see him carrying the ball as a second receiver so he's not running into traffic. 


I thought the whole point was for him to run into traffic.

The videos I saw of him when he was coming through the ranks always had him carrying slightly wider out than where first receiver usually is. This enabled him to run at shoulder & break the line more often than not.


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 9:18am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by sospanman sospanman wrote:

Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

Let's be honest, we are always going to have an uphill struggle recruiting due to our location, in the middle of nowhere and not exactly glamorous in the way that Cardiff, Manchester or London can be.   Add to that a few years poor form and sod all dollars in the bank and no idea if there will even be 4 regions in a couple of years time and it's got to be a tough job pitching coming to Llanelli to players who presumably have several options.  Did we only recruit Fifita because the other targets all said 'no thanks'?

The light at the end of the tunnel is that the WRU actually come through soon and put some form of multi-year deal in place so we have stability to offer new recruits, hopefully that light isn't a blydi train though.
Speak for yourself Bermuda boy. I have had to live in several "glamorous" cities including overseas and Cardiff. Couldn't wait to get back to Llanelli and wouldn't swap it for anywhere.
I would hardly describe Lincoln as Bermuda the cathedral is nice but steep hill is a killer Big smile

You've clearly never visited Mablethorpe, 'the Bermuda of the North'.  Sometimes it gets above freezing. 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 9:18am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I'd like to see Carwyn get some game time to help him develop so we can see more of him. Would also like to see him carrying the ball as a second receiver so he's not running into traffic. 


I thought the whole point was for him to run into traffic.

The whole point is to make metres and get across the gainline allowing quick next phase ball. 

Since Jake left, we dont have anyone who can clear a ruck to allow us to generate quick ball....


Posted By: Sosban89
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 10:16am
Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

Feels harsh to say as hes still young and gets limited game time but Baldwin doesnt cut it for me. 

I'd be keeping Lezana too, dog of a player like Ed Kennedy

Agree re Baldwin. Defensively not up to standards at 13 or wing. 


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 10:24am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I'd like to see Carwyn get some game time to help him develop so we can see more of him. Would also like to see him carrying the ball as a second receiver so he's not running into traffic. 


I thought the whole point was for him to run into traffic.

The whole point is to make metres and get across the gainline allowing quick next phase ball. 

Since Jake left, we dont have anyone who can clear a ruck to allow us to generate quick ball....

Carwyn,I thought ,was to be a ball carrying option?If you want an 8 who avoids contact we can make do with a flanker there.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 10:49am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I'd like to see Carwyn get some game time to help him develop so we can see more of him. Would also like to see him carrying the ball as a second receiver so he's not running into traffic. 


I thought the whole point was for him to run into traffic.

The whole point is to make metres and get across the gainline allowing quick next phase ball. 

Since Jake left, we dont have anyone who can clear a ruck to allow us to generate quick ball....

Carwyn,I thought ,was to be a ball carrying option?If you want an 8 who avoids contact we can make do with a flanker there.

I think when we saw him coming through the age groups he was really a ball carrying option given his size but when he is running into 2 big second rows that option is countered somewhat.


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 11:05am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I'd like to see Carwyn get some game time to help him develop so we can see more of him. Would also like to see him carrying the ball as a second receiver so he's not running into traffic. 


I thought the whole point was for him to run into traffic.

The whole point is to make metres and get across the gainline allowing quick next phase ball. 

Since Jake left, we dont have anyone who can clear a ruck to allow us to generate quick ball....

Carwyn,I thought ,was to be a ball carrying option?If you want an 8 who avoids contact we can make do with a flanker there.

I think when we saw him coming through the age groups he was really a ball carrying option given his size but when he is running into 2 big second rows that option is countered somewhat.

He's been nurtured as a ball carrying 8.Could be another recruitment débacle,then.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 11:06am
I'll be honest the coaches will know better than me but for me he seems to come alive in the loose rather than the tight.


Posted By: Dic Penderyn
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 11:17am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I'll be honest the coaches will know better than me but for me he seems to come alive in the loose rather than the tight.


He doesn't seem to seek the collisions like a young Quinnell or Tarw used to,that's for sure.


Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 7:28pm
Originally posted by Mr Lee91 Mr Lee91 wrote:

Taking the same approach as you re: no emotions and logic, so I've split my departing players into 3 groups a full/semi retirement, a personal reasons and a release group.

Retire: Halfpenny, Jon Davies, Gar Davies, Kalamafoni, Shingler, Rawlins, Owens, P Price
Personal: McNicholl, Thomson, Sebastian
Release: St Evans, Patchell, T Price, Helps, WGJ, Jeffries, Sh Evans

BACK 3;
Tom Rogers, Ryan Conbeer, Ioan Nicholas, Callum Williams, (Iolo Griffiths, Academy)
Leigh Halfpenny, Johnny McNicholl, Steff Evans
CENTRE;
Johnny Williams, Scott Williams, Joe Roberts, Corey Baldwin, (Eddie James & Iestyn Gwilliam, Academy)
Jonathan Davies
FLY-HALF;
Sam Costelow, Dan Jones, (Josh Phillips & Tal Rees, Academy)
Rhys Patchell
SCRUM-HALF;
Kieran Hardy, Dane Blacker, Archie Hughes, Harri Williams
Gareth Davies
BACK ROW;
Josh Macleod, Tomas Lezana, Carwyn Tuipolotu, Dan Davis, Iestyn Rees, Iwan Shenton, (Luca Giannini, Academy)
Aaron Shingler, Blade Thomson, Sione Kalamafoni
LOCK;
Sam Lousi, Vaea Fifita, Jac Price, Morgan Jones, Griff Evans, (Caleb Salmon, Academy)
Tom Price, Josh Helps, Lewis Rawlins
TIGHT-HEAD;
Samson Lee, Harri O'Connor
Will Griff John, Javan Sebastian, Alex Jeffries
HOOKER;
Ryan Elias, Dafydd Hughes, Taylor Davies, (Lewis Morgan, Academy)
Ken Owens, Shaun Evans
LOOSE-HEAD;
Wyn Jones, Steffan Thomas, Kemsley Mathias, (Sam O'Connor, Academy)
Phil Price
Squad Total: 33 (42 incl. Academy)

Based on this I would imagine we would be recruiting into the senior squad;
Back 3 - 1 or 2
Fly-Half - 1
Back Row - 1 or 2
Tight-Head - 2
And then there'd be a few academy/development player signings on top.

Squad Total: 38/40 (47+ incl. Academy) which I feel is about right, the 40 player mark.

The retiring group is pretty much self explanatory, I'd love to get another season out of a few of them I just don't see them reaching above 85% of their best.
I think both McNicholl and Blade will head back home post-RWC as that's the main reason they came and once it's gone they wont be around for the next one. Similar with Sebastian being Scottish based will help him.
It's difficult when you're taking someone's job away from them and I don't envy whoever is having these conversations with the players.
Steff Evans, Patchell, Tom Price, Will Griff John and Jeffries are not at the required level anymore to be worth re-contracting. 
I really didn't want to put Josh Helps or Shaun Evans in here, unfortunately we have too many quality hookers to keep Shaun as well and unless we see a drastic change is Helps physical game I don't see a place for him.

DISCLAIMER:
These are my own opinions, not any other persons or groups. Opinion is subject to change throughout the season pending performances.
Nice piece of work Mr Lee


-------------
We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 10:35pm
Yes , well researched and I''m assuming that you have seen much more of the Academy players than I have.
I would be disappointed if we couldn't persuade Kalamafoni to stay for another season and to a lesser degree Halfpenny,      Mcnicholl and Patchell (instead of Dinky)
Now find us the replacements !!!!


Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 26 October 2022 at 11:14pm
Great posts in here! We've probably lost track of time- hard to believe it'll actually be the 2023/24 squad!

Tighthead we can't chop too much. HOC is a given to keep, but we need 2-3 more, as HOC has now been in the Wales periphery. WGJ, I hope he comes good. Javan I could see go to Scotland, and Lee is sadly injury prone. Then there's Jeffries, we loaned him to Saracens but he's stuck around here since, and I don't think is a bad player. We need two, say WGJ and Jeff to work out. Lee's injuries are just too much to bank on for him besides filling in here and there. We haven't really seen WGJ get a good long stint in yet, have we?

Loosehead looks better for sure. Steff and Kemsley coming up nicely.

Hooker, hard to tell. Elias is going to spend a chunk of the season with Wales, as will Ken until he retires. I'd keep Shaun Evans around, he's useful on the field and can cover back row. Keep Dad and Taylor, and I assume Ken is retiring after 2023 WC for this mental exercise right now.

Locks, well we know we need some. Should have gone for Lonsdale or Nott but there we are. Fifita still looks a 6 to me, just not the ballast in the second row come scrum. Lousi, Jac, and Morgan for now. Rawlins is 32 now and frequently injured so I think he's on his way out sadly. Helps another we haven't seen much of. Tom Price? Honestly not sure. Hoping Salmon works out, he could be a 4/5/6 perhaps?

More from me later!


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 9:39am
There's 15/20 players out of contract every season so we might or might not see an overhaul of the squad, it'll depend on who's available, how much the out of contract players earn as well as how much Peel wants to keep players. 

The one's I'd guess will move on based on their game time (if they're out of contract) would be Phil Price, Jeffries, WGJ, one of Jac Price/Morgan Jones/Helps and Taylor Davies.

If we really want to have a shake-up it's the NWQ and non-Wales 38 high earners that we'll need to really look at as well as medium earners where the academy players could step in.

If they're out of contract I'd release Baldwin, Patchell, Lezana, Blade, Shingler, Rawlins, WGJ, Jeffries, Tom and Phil Price, Dan Davis and Taylor Davies, I'd resist the urge to release some of the other older players like Ken, Foxy, Scott and Halfpenny because there's only so much you can change things and you need day to day leadership in the squad. That should free up a decent amount to be able to shake things up.

This is all relatively minor though in my opinion, until we get the academy producing closer to the numbers it used to with a hard-working winning mentality then juggling a small budget is always going to be hit and miss. Not sure whether it's a coaching, resource or a gametime issue but I don't believe we haven't got the quality of young player in the region, fixing that will be our biggest win.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 9:47am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

There's 15/20 players out of contract every season so we might or might not see an overhaul of the squad, it'll depend on who's available, how much the out of contract players earn as well as how much Peel wants to keep players. 

The one's I'd guess will move on based on their game time (if they're out of contract) would be Phil Price, Jeffries, WGJ, one of Jac Price/Morgan Jones/Helps and Taylor Davies.

If we really want to have a shake-up it's the NWQ and non-Wales 38 high earners that we'll need to really look at as well as medium earners where the academy players could step in.

If they're out of contract I'd release Baldwin, Patchell, Lezana, Blade, Shingler, Rawlins, WGJ, Jeffries, Tom and Phil Price and Taylor Davies, I'd resist the urge to release some of the other older players like Ken, Foxy, Scott and Halfpenny because there's only so much you can change things and you need day to day leadership in the squad. That should free up a decent amount to be able to shake things up.

This is all relatively minor though in my opinion, until we get the academy producing closer to the numbers it used to with a hard-working winning mentality then juggling a small budget is always going to be hit and miss. Not sure whether it's a coaching, resource or a gametime issue but I can't don't believe we haven't got the quality of young player in the region, fixing that will be our biggest win.

You mention 4 senior players you would keep partly for leadership qualities. I struggle to remember any of the 4 apart from Scott showing any such qualities over the past seasons. Leadership, for me, is not running around like a raving banshee but making correct decisions during critical periods of the game. Ken will always get stuck in giving his all but thats not leadership. 

The squad is going to undergo serious change with many reaching an age where they no longer justify their salaries whether covered 80% or not. The quality of the replacements will be very interesting. 


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 9:51am
I'd agree we've lacked leadership on the pitch but there's also day to day leadership, developing and advising younger players, having figureheads from the area etc.

I get the viewpoint to have a clear out but there is a danger it would unravel to new levels. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 9:58am
Will ken foxy halfpenny still be in the wales 38 post world cup? If not they become a lot more expensive but we do get them all season. I’d keep ken and halfpenny would be tempted to leave onr posdibly both of foxy and scott go


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 10:45am
If Halfpenny is on reasonable wages post wc23, I'd definitely keep him even if it's just as bench cover.  A lethal boot in the NH weather is hard to come by but any deal would need to reflect he's no longer the 2013 vintage.


Posted By: Sosban89
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 10:45am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

There's 15/20 players out of contract every season so we might or might not see an overhaul of the squad, it'll depend on who's available, how much the out of contract players earn as well as how much Peel wants to keep players. 

The one's I'd guess will move on based on their game time (if they're out of contract) would be Phil Price, Jeffries, WGJ, one of Jac Price/Morgan Jones/Helps and Taylor Davies.

If we really want to have a shake-up it's the NWQ and non-Wales 38 high earners that we'll need to really look at as well as medium earners where the academy players could step in.

If they're out of contract I'd release Baldwin, Patchell, Lezana, Blade, Shingler, Rawlins, WGJ, Jeffries, Tom and Phil Price and Taylor Davies, I'd resist the urge to release some of the other older players like Ken, Foxy, Scott and Halfpenny because there's only so much you can change things and you need day to day leadership in the squad. That should free up a decent amount to be able to shake things up.

This is all relatively minor though in my opinion, until we get the academy producing closer to the numbers it used to with a hard-working winning mentality then juggling a small budget is always going to be hit and miss. Not sure whether it's a coaching, resource or a gametime issue but I can't don't believe we haven't got the quality of young player in the region, fixing that will be our biggest win.

You mention 4 senior players you would keep partly for leadership qualities. I struggle to remember any of the 4 apart from Scott showing any such qualities over the past seasons. Leadership, for me, is not running around like a raving banshee but making correct decisions during critical periods of the game. Ken will always get stuck in giving his all but thats not leadership. 

The squad is going to undergo serious change with many reaching an age where they no longer justify their salaries whether covered 80% or not. The quality of the replacements will be very interesting. 

You can't measure leadership with your eye. The fact the likes of Ken have captained both the Scarlets and the Lions under different management would imply he probably has leadership qualities. 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

There's 15/20 players out of contract every season so we might or might not see an overhaul of the squad, it'll depend on who's available, how much the out of contract players earn as well as how much Peel wants to keep players. 

The one's I'd guess will move on based on their game time (if they're out of contract) would be Phil Price, Jeffries, WGJ, one of Jac Price/Morgan Jones/Helps and Taylor Davies.

If we really want to have a shake-up it's the NWQ and non-Wales 38 high earners that we'll need to really look at as well as medium earners where the academy players could step in.

If they're out of contract I'd release Baldwin, Patchell, Lezana, Blade, Shingler, Rawlins, WGJ, Jeffries, Tom and Phil Price and Taylor Davies, I'd resist the urge to release some of the other older players like Ken, Foxy, Scott and Halfpenny because there's only so much you can change things and you need day to day leadership in the squad. That should free up a decent amount to be able to shake things up.

This is all relatively minor though in my opinion, until we get the academy producing closer to the numbers it used to with a hard-working winning mentality then juggling a small budget is always going to be hit and miss. Not sure whether it's a coaching, resource or a gametime issue but I can't don't believe we haven't got the quality of young player in the region, fixing that will be our biggest win.

You mention 4 senior players you would keep partly for leadership qualities. I struggle to remember any of the 4 apart from Scott showing any such qualities over the past seasons. Leadership, for me, is not running around like a raving banshee but making correct decisions during critical periods of the game. Ken will always get stuck in giving his all but thats not leadership. 

The squad is going to undergo serious change with many reaching an age where they no longer justify their salaries whether covered 80% or not. The quality of the replacements will be very interesting. 

You can't measure leadership with your eye. The fact the likes of Ken have captained both the Scarlets and the Lions under different management would imply he probably has leadership qualities. 

I get your point but my eye certainly was telling me to kick that penalty to make it 26-16 against the Ospreys.


Posted By: Sosban89
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 1:04pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

There's 15/20 players out of contract every season so we might or might not see an overhaul of the squad, it'll depend on who's available, how much the out of contract players earn as well as how much Peel wants to keep players. 

The one's I'd guess will move on based on their game time (if they're out of contract) would be Phil Price, Jeffries, WGJ, one of Jac Price/Morgan Jones/Helps and Taylor Davies.

If we really want to have a shake-up it's the NWQ and non-Wales 38 high earners that we'll need to really look at as well as medium earners where the academy players could step in.

If they're out of contract I'd release Baldwin, Patchell, Lezana, Blade, Shingler, Rawlins, WGJ, Jeffries, Tom and Phil Price and Taylor Davies, I'd resist the urge to release some of the other older players like Ken, Foxy, Scott and Halfpenny because there's only so much you can change things and you need day to day leadership in the squad. That should free up a decent amount to be able to shake things up.

This is all relatively minor though in my opinion, until we get the academy producing closer to the numbers it used to with a hard-working winning mentality then juggling a small budget is always going to be hit and miss. Not sure whether it's a coaching, resource or a gametime issue but I can't don't believe we haven't got the quality of young player in the region, fixing that will be our biggest win.

You mention 4 senior players you would keep partly for leadership qualities. I struggle to remember any of the 4 apart from Scott showing any such qualities over the past seasons. Leadership, for me, is not running around like a raving banshee but making correct decisions during critical periods of the game. Ken will always get stuck in giving his all but thats not leadership. 

The squad is going to undergo serious change with many reaching an age where they no longer justify their salaries whether covered 80% or not. The quality of the replacements will be very interesting. 

You can't measure leadership with your eye. The fact the likes of Ken have captained both the Scarlets and the Lions under different management would imply he probably has leadership qualities. 

I get your point but my eye certainly was telling me to kick that penalty to make it 26-16 against the Ospreys.

Yeah that was dubious to be fair!LOL


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

There's 15/20 players out of contract every season so we might or might not see an overhaul of the squad, it'll depend on who's available, how much the out of contract players earn as well as how much Peel wants to keep players. 

The one's I'd guess will move on based on their game time (if they're out of contract) would be Phil Price, Jeffries, WGJ, one of Jac Price/Morgan Jones/Helps and Taylor Davies.

If we really want to have a shake-up it's the NWQ and non-Wales 38 high earners that we'll need to really look at as well as medium earners where the academy players could step in.

If they're out of contract I'd release Baldwin, Patchell, Lezana, Blade, Shingler, Rawlins, WGJ, Jeffries, Tom and Phil Price and Taylor Davies, I'd resist the urge to release some of the other older players like Ken, Foxy, Scott and Halfpenny because there's only so much you can change things and you need day to day leadership in the squad. That should free up a decent amount to be able to shake things up.

This is all relatively minor though in my opinion, until we get the academy producing closer to the numbers it used to with a hard-working winning mentality then juggling a small budget is always going to be hit and miss. Not sure whether it's a coaching, resource or a gametime issue but I can't don't believe we haven't got the quality of young player in the region, fixing that will be our biggest win.

You mention 4 senior players you would keep partly for leadership qualities. I struggle to remember any of the 4 apart from Scott showing any such qualities over the past seasons. Leadership, for me, is not running around like a raving banshee but making correct decisions during critical periods of the game. Ken will always get stuck in giving his all but thats not leadership. 

The squad is going to undergo serious change with many reaching an age where they no longer justify their salaries whether covered 80% or not. The quality of the replacements will be very interesting. 

You can't measure leadership with your eye. The fact the likes of Ken have captained both the Scarlets and the Lions under different management would imply he probably has leadership qualities. 

I get your point but my eye certainly was telling me to kick that penalty to make it 26-16 against the Ospreys.

Yeah that was dubious to be fair!LOL
I feel the need to mention that Ken is blameless of this.

-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 27 October 2022 at 2:02pm
Yep, Ken was nowhere near that debacle and multiple managers have all either had him as captain or called him a leader over the years. 

Not sure whether it was a sign of Foxy starting to grow into the captains role or just plain frustration when he had to correct the ref in the connaught game.  'dropped on his shoulder' - 'no, head'- 'well, yeah, it was on his head but we're playing in ireland so we both know I'm not allowed to give a red'


Posted By: scarletsbeno1
Date Posted: 04 November 2022 at 2:14pm
Josh Hathaway Wales u20 full back has just joined Gloucester from us as of today. 

Anyone know much about him ? 


Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 04 November 2022 at 2:21pm
Originally posted by scarletsbeno1 scarletsbeno1 wrote:

Josh Hathaway Wales u20 full back has just joined Gloucester from us as of today. 

Anyone know much about him ? 
Yes, he was a Wales U20 fullback, and will play for Gloucester in the future!

Wink


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 04 November 2022 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by scarletsbeno1 scarletsbeno1 wrote:

Josh Hathaway Wales u20 full back has just joined Gloucester from us as of today. 

Anyone know much about him ? 
I saw him play for our U18s a few times. Decent rangy runner. I think he’s only just turned 19 so has another year at U20s. He struggled a bit with the U20s last season, which was understandable as he was very young to be playing at that level. 

Hopefully we can pick him back up after he finishes his course at Hartpury. 


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 09 November 2022 at 4:53pm
Saracens social media say we play them on 10 March.


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 09 November 2022 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Saracens social media say we play them on 10 March.
Home, away and in what? A prep friendly or some new competition?

-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 09 November 2022 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Saracens social media say we play them on 10 March.
Home, away and in what? A prep friendly or some new competition?


Sorry, it’s away. A friendly. Assume it’s helping to plug sone of the gaps in income streams that the English teams have from losing Worcester and Wasps fixtures. I’m sure we will get something from it in some way.


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 09 November 2022 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Saracens social media say we play them on 10 March.
Home, away and in what? A prep friendly or some new competition?


Sorry, it’s away. A friendly. Assume it’s helping to plug sone of the gaps in income streams that the English teams have from losing Worcester and Wasps fixtures. I’m sure we will get something from it in some way.
No worries. Thanks for that info. Might well go to that.

-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 10 November 2022 at 8:52am
To be fair, we should look at doing more games outside of league/cup etc and see if we can get some tv money in from amazon or whoever might want to show it.  Boost our income streams


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 10 November 2022 at 8:53am
More info  https://www.saracens.com/saracens-announce-replacement-matches-against-tel-aviv-heat-scarlets/" rel="nofollow - Saracens announce replacement matches against Tel Aviv Heat & Scarlets


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 10 November 2022 at 8:55am
Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

To be fair, we should look at doing more games outside of league/cup etc and see if we can get some tv money in from amazon or whoever might want to show it.  Boost our income streams

Good luck trying to sell Saracens v Tel Aviv Heat or indeed Saracens v Scarlets to Amazon.Confused


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 10 November 2022 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Lincscarlet Lincscarlet wrote:

To be fair, we should look at doing more games outside of league/cup etc and see if we can get some tv money in from amazon or whoever might want to show it.  Boost our income streams

Good luck trying to sell Saracens v Tel Aviv Heat or indeed Saracens v Scarlets to Amazon.Confused

If it's cheap enough, they'll buy it.  Bezos loves a bit of welsh rugby.

In all honesty the sodding socttish semi-pro teams are on tv so a scarlets 'exhibition' game should sell to someone 


Posted By: 157cb
Date Posted: 10 November 2022 at 4:17pm

   Hopefully we will see the likes of  Harri Doel and Dan Thomas return? and added to our squad. 


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 10 November 2022 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by 157cb 157cb wrote:


   Hopefully we will see the likes of  Harri Doel and Dan Thomas return? and added to our squad. 
I would love Dan here. A top player on the cusp of international level but not quite there and available to us all season. 


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 1:08pm
Ok my title of course should have read 2023/24 squad. Armed with updated info I have tried below to look at this from another angle. Who will be leaving. I do not know the wholesale list of renewals due nor can I begin to guess at the impact of the current embargo on contract offers but my estimate is based on age, lack of availability, selection issues etc.

Phil Price, Jeffries, Javan ( Edinburgh?), Helps ( retired), Rawlins, Tom Price, Iestyn Rees, Sione ( retire?), Shingler ( retire?) & Lezana = 10no

Halfpenny, Baldwin, Foxy, Patchell, Cawdor = 5no. 


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Ok my title of course should have read 2023/24 squad. Armed with updated info I have tried below to look at this from another angle. Who will be leaving. I do not know the wholesale list of renewals due nor can I begin to guess at the impact of the current embargo on contract offers but my estimate is based on age, lack of availability, selection issues etc.

Phil Price, Jeffries, Javan ( Edinburgh?), Helps ( retired), Rawlins, Tom Price, Iestyn Rees, Sione ( retire?), Shingler ( retire?) & Lezana = 10no

Halfpenny, Baldwin, Foxy, Patchell, Cawdor = 5no. 
I agree with all of the above, I’d keep Baldwin but the rest of the backs are way past their best now.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Ok my title of course should have read 2023/24 squad. Armed with updated info I have tried below to look at this from another angle. Who will be leaving. I do not know the wholesale list of renewals due nor can I begin to guess at the impact of the current embargo on contract offers but my estimate is based on age, lack of availability, selection issues etc.

Phil Price, Jeffries, Javan ( Edinburgh?), Helps ( retired), Rawlins, Tom Price, Iestyn Rees, Sione ( retire?), Shingler ( retire?) & Lezana = 10no

Halfpenny, Baldwin, Foxy, Patchell, Cawdor = 5no. 
I agree with all of the above, I’d keep Baldwin but the rest of the backs are way past their best now.

I included Baldwin as I think its clear that Dwayne doesn't rate him so I think Baldwin has a decision to make. 


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Ok my title of course should have read 2023/24 squad. Armed with updated info I have tried below to look at this from another angle. Who will be leaving. I do not know the wholesale list of renewals due nor can I begin to guess at the impact of the current embargo on contract offers but my estimate is based on age, lack of availability, selection issues etc.

Phil Price, Jeffries, Javan ( Edinburgh?), Helps ( retired), Rawlins, Tom Price, Iestyn Rees, Sione ( retire?), Shingler ( retire?) & Lezana = 10no

Halfpenny, Baldwin, Foxy, Patchell, Cawdor = 5no. 
I agree with all of the above, I’d keep Baldwin but the rest of the backs are way past their best now.


I included Baldwin as I think its clear that Dwayne doesn't rate him so I think Baldwin has a decision to make. 
Agreed, Dwayne does have his favs and it’s clear Baldwin ain’t one of them.


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 2:18pm
Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.

-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.
Really? He’s 36 and has a history of bad injuries. If he’s up for renewal then imo we should thank him for his service and let him enjoy his retirement. We can’t keep giving contracts to the old guard, we are in a fight for survival and we need young hungry players who are going to be fighting for the jersey for years to come. I’ve nothing against Shingler, Foxy, Ken etc but we need to change and blood youngsters or signing young Welsh players like Reffell, Wainwright etc. This is half the reason why we’re in this mess, far too loyal for our own good.


Posted By: scarletsrules
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.
Really? He’s 36 and has a history of bad injuries. If he’s up for renewal then imo we should thank him for his service and let him enjoy his retirement. We can’t keep giving contracts to the old guard, we are in a fight for survival and we need young hungry players who are going to be fighting for the jersey for years to come. I’ve nothing against Shingler, Foxy, Ken etc but we need to change and blood youngsters or signing young Welsh players like Reffell, Wainwright etc. This is half the reason why we’re in this mess, far too loyal for our own good.


If they are playing well and deserve an extension then theres no issue with the age side of things he should get an extension

The experience he also gives to the youngsters can be good for us


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.
Really? He’s 36 and has a history of bad injuries. If he’s up for renewal then imo we should thank him for his service and let him enjoy his retirement. We can’t keep giving contracts to the old guard, we are in a fight for survival and we need young hungry players who are going to be fighting for the jersey for years to come. I’ve nothing against Shingler, Foxy, Ken etc but we need to change and blood youngsters or signing young Welsh players like Reffell, Wainwright etc. This is half the reason why we’re in this mess, far too loyal for our own good.


If they are playing well and deserve an extension then theres no issue with the age side of things he should get an extension

The experience he also gives to the youngsters can be good for us
We need to snap out of this village mindset, he’s played one decent game in a while. And in your eyes we need to reward with new contracts. What youngsters do you speak of? We have the worst academy out of all 4 regions so please tell me of these youngsters you speak of??


Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:16pm
Halfpenny and Sione are two players who can be guaranteed to give 100%. They may no longer be at the top of their game but it's not through lack of effort. I continue to be baffled by Peel's disdain of Patchell and dread to think of the Scarlets with only Costelow and Dinky to call upon, unless they discover a hidden hoard of Spanish gold pirated by the bwelli bach of Cefn Sidan, and use it to sign another top class 10.


Posted By: Sosban89
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.
Really? He’s 36 and has a history of bad injuries. If he’s up for renewal then imo we should thank him for his service and let him enjoy his retirement. We can’t keep giving contracts to the old guard, we are in a fight for survival and we need young hungry players who are going to be fighting for the jersey for years to come. I’ve nothing against Shingler, Foxy, Ken etc but we need to change and blood youngsters or signing young Welsh players like Reffell, Wainwright etc. This is half the reason why we’re in this mess, far too loyal for our own good.


If they are playing well and deserve an extension then theres no issue with the age side of things he should get an extension

The experience he also gives to the youngsters can be good for us
We need to snap out of this village mindset, he’s played one decent game in a while. And in your eyes we need to reward with new contracts. What youngsters do you speak of? We have the worst academy out of all 4 regions so please tell me of these youngsters you speak of??
Surely if there are no good youngsters then all the more reason to give a solid pro another year


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.
Really? He’s 36 and has a history of bad injuries. If he’s up for renewal then imo we should thank him for his service and let him enjoy his retirement. We can’t keep giving contracts to the old guard, we are in a fight for survival and we need young hungry players who are going to be fighting for the jersey for years to come. I’ve nothing against Shingler, Foxy, Ken etc but we need to change and blood youngsters or signing young Welsh players like Reffell, Wainwright etc. This is half the reason why we’re in this mess, far too loyal for our own good.


If they are playing well and deserve an extension then theres no issue with the age side of things he should get an extension

The experience he also gives to the youngsters can be good for us
We need to snap out of this village mindset, he’s played one decent game in a while. And in your eyes we need to reward with new contracts. What youngsters do you speak of? We have the worst academy out of all 4 regions so please tell me of these youngsters you speak of??

Surely if there are no good youngsters then all the more reason to give a solid pro another year
According to the WOL you have the likes of Jac Morgan, Moriarty to name a few. Yet instead of going for them you’d rather give Shingler who at 36 and past his best a new contract.


Posted By: Maple
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:43pm
Apparently Javan is moving to Scotland ...

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Give Blood, Play Rugby


Posted By: scarletsrules
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.
Really? He’s 36 and has a history of bad injuries. If he’s up for renewal then imo we should thank him for his service and let him enjoy his retirement. We can’t keep giving contracts to the old guard, we are in a fight for survival and we need young hungry players who are going to be fighting for the jersey for years to come. I’ve nothing against Shingler, Foxy, Ken etc but we need to change and blood youngsters or signing young Welsh players like Reffell, Wainwright etc. This is half the reason why we’re in this mess, far too loyal for our own good.


If they are playing well and deserve an extension then theres no issue with the age side of things he should get an extension

The experience he also gives to the youngsters can be good for us
We need to snap out of this village mindset, he’s played one decent game in a while. And in your eyes we need to reward with new contracts. What youngsters do you speak of? We have the worst academy out of all 4 regions so please tell me of these youngsters you speak of??


If Shingler is consistently in good form and consistently in the starting team then yes give him a new contract, i agree not 1 good game gives you a new contract but there is still alot of rugby to be played for him to show his form


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:48pm
Shingler is better than blade or lezana imo, his line out work is vital for us. Let’s see if he can stay fit though


Posted By: Maple
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:50pm
Sospanman, I was born and brought up in Llanelli, from where I moved too Toronto and the realisation that Llanelli is a filthy hole.

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Give Blood, Play Rugby


Posted By: Maple
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 3:58pm
I was born and bought up in Llanelli, before moving to Toronto. I then realised what a filthy hole the town has become.

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Give Blood, Play Rugby


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 05 December 2022 at 6:05pm
Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.
Really? He’s 36 and has a history of bad injuries. If he’s up for renewal then imo we should thank him for his service and let him enjoy his retirement. We can’t keep giving contracts to the old guard, we are in a fight for survival and we need young hungry players who are going to be fighting for the jersey for years to come. I’ve nothing against Shingler, Foxy, Ken etc but we need to change and blood youngsters or signing young Welsh players like Reffell, Wainwright etc. This is half the reason why we’re in this mess, far too loyal for our own good.


If they are playing well and deserve an extension then theres no issue with the age side of things he should get an extension

The experience he also gives to the youngsters can be good for us
that would rule out most of the squad.


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 06 December 2022 at 12:33pm
This and next summer is both frightening and exciting.  ALOT of players out of contract, a fair few on the verge of retirement. And with those retirements, a lot of experience and quality goes.
I cant see there being much difference to the match day 23 next season due to late budget etc. 

But for the 2024/25 season a very different picture...I would guess that our new squad profile will have started to kick in for that season where we may use the world cup season to pick up some players as well. But for 24/25 season we will probably looking at not much different to a match day 23 of:

15. Tom Rogers
14. Corey Baldwin
13. Joe Roberts
12. Ed James
11. Ryan Conbeer
10. Sam Costellow
9. Dane Blacker
8. Carwyn Tuipolotu
7. Josh Macleod
6. Vaea Fifita
5. Sam Lousi
4. Morgan Jones
3. Hari OConnor
2. Ryan Elias
1. Kemsley Mathias

16. ?
17. Steff Thomas
18. Sam Wainwright (if he is kept on after this season)
19. Jac Price
20. Ben Williams
21. Archie Hughes
22. ?
23. ?

The above is just what I think our match day 23 will look like in as little as 18months.
Alot of SMART recruiting and retention is needed.
I would say 3 NWQ backs needed : Fly Half, Centre, Full Back
I would also add 2 NWQ forwards : No. 8, Scrummaging lock....at a minimum. Cash is king though!

Its a alarming in one way to see it like that...but also excitement. The squad build can start and for that i am excited about seeing Dwaynes vision for our squad.


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 06 December 2022 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

This and next summer is both frightening and exciting.  ALOT of players out of contract, a fair few on the verge of retirement. And with those retirements, a lot of experience and quality goes.
I cant see there being much difference to the match day 23 next season due to late budget etc. 

But for the 2024/25 season a very different picture...I would guess that our new squad profile will have started to kick in for that season where we may use the world cup season to pick up some players as well. But for 24/25 season we will probably looking at not much different to a match day 23 of:

15. Tom Rogers
14. Corey Baldwin
13. Joe Roberts
12. Ed James
11. Ryan Conbeer
10. Sam Costellow
9. Dane Blacker
8. Carwyn Tuipolotu
7. Josh Macleod
6. Vaea Fifita
5. Sam Lousi
4. Morgan Jones
3. Hari OConnor
2. Ryan Elias
1. Kemsley Mathias

16. ?
17. Steff Thomas
18. Sam Wainwright (if he is kept on after this season)
19. Jac Price
20. Ben Williams
21. Archie Hughes
22. ?
23. ?

The above is just what I think our match day 23 will look like in as little as 18months.
Alot of SMART recruiting and retention is needed.
I would say 3 NWQ backs needed : Fly Half, Centre, Full Back
I would also add 2 NWQ forwards : No. 8, Scrummaging lock....at a minimum. Cash is king though!

Its a alarming in one way to see it like that...but also excitement. The squad build can start and for that i am excited about seeing Dwaynes vision for our squad.
Problem with that squad is going by this seasons selections Dwayne doesn’t rate a lot of players named. 


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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 06 December 2022 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

This and next summer is both frightening and exciting.  ALOT of players out of contract, a fair few on the verge of retirement. And with those retirements, a lot of experience and quality goes.
I cant see there being much difference to the match day 23 next season due to late budget etc. 

But for the 2024/25 season a very different picture...I would guess that our new squad profile will have started to kick in for that season where we may use the world cup season to pick up some players as well. But for 24/25 season we will probably looking at not much different to a match day 23 of:

15. Tom Rogers
14. Corey Baldwin
13. Joe Roberts
12. Ed James
11. Ryan Conbeer
10. Sam Costellow
9. Dane Blacker
8. Carwyn Tuipolotu
7. Josh Macleod
6. Vaea Fifita
5. Sam Lousi
4. Morgan Jones
3. Hari OConnor
2. Ryan Elias
1. Kemsley Mathias

16. ?
17. Steff Thomas
18. Sam Wainwright (if he is kept on after this season)
19. Jac Price
20. Ben Williams
21. Archie Hughes
22. ?
23. ?

The above is just what I think our match day 23 will look like in as little as 18months.
Alot of SMART recruiting and retention is needed.
I would say 3 NWQ backs needed : Fly Half, Centre, Full Back
I would also add 2 NWQ forwards : No. 8, Scrummaging lock....at a minimum. Cash is king though!

Its a alarming in one way to see it like that...but also excitement. The squad build can start and for that i am excited about seeing Dwaynes vision for our squad.

Johnny Williams is only 26!


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 06 December 2022 at 12:59pm
Never said Johnny Williams would be retired!


Posted By: EJPT
Date Posted: 06 December 2022 at 1:15pm
Dane Blacker couldn’t buy a start under Dwayne it seems. It also begs the question why aren’t we seing this now (or at least some barring injuries etc) 


Posted By: PE SA
Date Posted: 06 December 2022 at 1:32pm
Rogers, Conbeer, Costellow already starting in backs - Roberts been injured.
Tuipolotu and Macleod been injured.
Hari OConnor developing well. Kemsley Mathias doesnt seem to be consistently fit at the moment.
Ben Williams impressing in training apparently. so there is not much we arent seeing.

Granted with Blacker, Cawdor and Hardy are both having more game time at the moment, but is that call coming from above ?

fact is, the squad will be completely different in under 2 years.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 06 December 2022 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by PE SA PE SA wrote:

Rogers, Conbeer, Costellow already starting in backs - Roberts been injured.
Tuipolotu and Macleod been injured.
Hari OConnor developing well. Kemsley Mathias doesnt seem to be consistently fit at the moment.
Ben Williams impressing in training apparently. so there is not much we arent seeing.

Granted with Blacker, Cawdor and Hardy are both having more game time at the moment, but is that call coming from above ?

fact is, the squad will be completely different in under 2 years.
Spot on half of they will be ospreys


Posted By: crj89
Date Posted: 06 December 2022 at 9:34pm
Originally posted by scarletsrules scarletsrules wrote:

Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Shingler was outstanding Sunday in South Africa,  he's  got another season or two in him.
Really? He’s 36 and has a history of bad injuries. If he’s up for renewal then imo we should thank him for his service and let him enjoy his retirement. We can’t keep giving contracts to the old guard, we are in a fight for survival and we need young hungry players who are going to be fighting for the jersey for years to come. I’ve nothing against Shingler, Foxy, Ken etc but we need to change and blood youngsters or signing young Welsh players like Reffell, Wainwright etc. This is half the reason why we’re in this mess, far too loyal for our own good.


If they are playing well and deserve an extension then theres no issue with the age side of things he should get an extension

The experience he also gives to the youngsters can be good for us

Even if Shingler plays well now until the end of the season, I think there’s better value out there. Look at the Dragons for instance, 1 of Keddie, Wainwright or Moriarty would walk into our team as there’s so much quality at 6 at the Dragons. Even though Shingler is still a good player, when you compare to other players I think it shows how we’ve dropped the ball with recruitment the last few years by trying to retain older players.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 6:10am
Shingler is terrific value. The only player that has never used an agent.


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 6:28am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Shingler is terrific value. The only player that has never used an agent.
Wow! well done Aaron been a great servant ClapClap


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 7:32am
Aaron has been a top player for years. Yes he's getting on but he is still some way ahead of any other lineout operator at the club. 


Posted By: crj89
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 8:42am
You’d all have him to start a top tier game, do you believe he’s international quality? Granted a squad member he’d be great, but when he’s starting games for us and is our ‘best option’, I don’t think that’s right personally.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 8:51am
Originally posted by crj89 crj89 wrote:

You’d all have him to start a top tier game, do you believe he’s international quality? Granted a squad member he’d be great, but when he’s starting games for us and is our ‘best option’, I don’t think that’s right personally.

Well who would you select to play 6 at the weekend? Our lineout creaks every game so if you take our best exponent out it surely weakens it more. Opposition, with very little analysis, will realise that if they attack us with carriers and/or attack our lineout they will get a payback. 

I agree totally with you that a 35/36 year old should not be a shoe in at this stage of his career but I struggle with alternatives. McLoud has been used as a lineout option at 6 in the past, Blade can play well but his form is sporadic not helped by his injury record. Fifita is a natural 6 but on the evidence of this season he is not as good as Aaron at lineout tome and does not give me the confidence on the gainline that Aaron does missing far too many tackles. 


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 9:15am
Originally posted by crj89 crj89 wrote:

You’d all have him to start a top tier game, do you believe he’s international quality? Granted a squad member he’d be great, but when he’s starting games for us and is our ‘best option’, I don’t think that’s right personally.

Are you saying that all our squad need to be of international standard?
If so we need to drastically increase our playing budget.  Let me know when you're organising a whip round and I'll  throw a few quid in.


-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 9:30am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Aaron has been a top player for years. Yes he's getting on but he is still some way ahead of any other lineout operator at the club. 


I'm ok with any age of player who has attributes that others don't, and are going to be in the match day 23 week in week out. Ideally not with a national team either.

It's probably a bit of a dream to hope that these senior players could be formally asked to mentor others ( albeit the O's did formally do this with Scott for Hawkins/Kieron W)

Anyway, Josh Turnbull is a good example of a player with those attributes (plays in the 4-8 shirt regularly and is the skipper for Cardiff).

Another is Ken, no one has been able to take the hooker shirt for Wales off him ( many have tried, Elias, Dee. Roberts. Parry), none have succeeded as yet, Lake looks most likely, but his darts are very hit and miss as we know...certainly not international standard.

Likewise Ray Lee-Lo at Cardiff, I watched Mason Grady recently, his defensive sense and alignment is all over the shop, he will learn a lot from the likes of Lee-Lo you would hope.

There are others like Lydiate, Myler etc...

Like Aaron, those guys have suffered career threatening and long term injuries, but fought back to be first choice.

I'm almost more concerned about the next generation of players.
Everyone gets injured regardless of age of course, but the recurrences and severity seem to be escalting, and perhaps most importantly, the return to play time when set against the injury, seems to be getting longer. Just my view.

It's fair to point out that I do have some first hand knowledge of rehab protocols and ideals and it might blunt my view.

However I would say that 70%+ of rehab is at home, and down to the determination of the individual, not on the physio table or in camp.




Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 10:17am
The year we won the league we had a solid squad during international windows with Parkes at the helm. You'd don't win leagues based on having a squad full of internationals. That's for the European cup. (With South African teams.😂)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 11:36am
Shingler should be in our first team mainly because he appears to be our only consistent line out option. That gives him a point of difference that over rides his age imo  Our recruitment is all a bit hit and miss we sign good players but not players that actually address the failings in our team. Is it asking too much for a lock who is actually good in the line out and scrum


Posted By: crj89
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 5:48pm
I agree with what has been said with regards to Shingler and him being our best line out operator. None of us have a crystal ball, but I do have concerns with us offering a player of 35/36 a new contract in a position that’s usually one of the hardest on the pitch physically. Back row you have to be one of the fittest on the pitch, if he’s consistently that then who am I to argue the point of his age.


Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 9:02pm
Shingler is a terrific player who has worked his socks off every year.
No issue keeping him around longer, but we must start looking at his heir. 


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 07 December 2022 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by Tony Clifton Tony Clifton wrote:

Shingler is a terrific player who has worked his socks off every year.
No issue keeping him around longer, but we must start looking at his heir. 

I don't think his thinning on top is an issue. 


Posted By: N14
Date Posted: 08 December 2022 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Tony Clifton Tony Clifton wrote:

Shingler is a terrific player who has worked his socks off every year.
No issue keeping him around longer, but we must start looking at his heir. 

I don't think his thinning on top is an issue. 

LOLClap


Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 09 December 2022 at 5:36am
Who do we know is out of contract? Patchell and Foxy

Heard rumors of Sebastian heading to Scotland and Blade home to NZ. Anyone else.


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As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten



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