Elsewhere we do not have many options but its time, surely, for us to look at our options at 15. For me :-

15. Adams/LRZ 14. Adams/LRZ 13. North 12. Tompkins 11. Rio Dyer 10. Anscombe 9. Tomos

1. Thomas 2. Owens (C) 3. Francis 4. Rowlands 5. Beard 6. Tschiunza 7. Jac Morgan 8. Faletau.

16. Roberts 17. Smith 18. Lewis 19. Carter 20. Tipuric 21. Blacker 22. Costelow 23. Watkin. 

It’s time to pick the youngsters give Christ a go in second row put Moriaty on blindside Morgan on open side Tuperic not fit in my opinion and he has a pony tail.

Give the boy Hawkins as go at centre play Tomkins at 13 George on wing with LRZ Adams at 15.

Costellow to start at 10 SH a huge problem for Wales.

This is a proper test match against a possible QF opponent next year.

No changes for me except Tshiunza at 6, Tipuric to 7.

Everyone else keep the same except for injuries.

We need to get closer to picking a settled side, not 5/6 changes each week. 

Don't bring me into this 

Better off with Andy Hill, he maybe 82 but I still think he's faster over the first 30 mins

Correct

In all honesty I just don't think we have options there. Whether it be up and coming or veterans. Even when people talk about Moriarty I never thought he was a 'great' carrier, just solid.  

Would have preferred: Rees-Zammit; Cuthbert, North, Tompkins, Dyer; Anscombe, T Williams; G Thomas, Owens (c), D Lewis, Carter, Rowlands, Tshiunza, Morgan, Faletau.

if pumas ended to celebrate english win, for wales will be a long afternoon saturday...

It underlines what I have been saying on the other thread , we have no strength  in depth in the front 5.

People can have ago at Pivac..but he is stuck either what he's got.

Not sure about youngsters to bring through ATM.?

Short time ago we had Samson(before injury wrecked him),Ken and Rob evans(at their best),wyn jones(not continually injured ,as now ) jake ball, hill, Shingler etc.

We are simply not bringing people through.

Doesn't matter what backs you have, or back row, you HAVE have a front 5, to do the spadework.Aĺl Blacks proved that last sat, by outplaying us, which allowed Smith and Savea go thrive .

It's a worry for Wales 

Not really. Look at Lewis, Brown, Smith. All had plenty of regional experience and international gametime. And neon of them are up to it. Carre the same. We just don't have talent. 

apportioning the blame for the decade of doom weve just entered?

Ill take a stab 55% wru (their insane priorities their failure to invest enough into regional/pro rugby/academies, scraping the A team, failing to scour the world for talent n playing and coaching, putting tests on amazon so millions fewer see the welsh team play) building hotels etc), 

15% pivac bizarre decisions, 5% his support team, 15% the academies....10% unforseen circumstances such as the emergence of football as wales national sport....The demise of rugby generally as entertaining and safety concerns ......Atm I find myself watching more football, cricket, darts, boxing, snooker etc

are playing numbers up or down?

F*** me you must be loaded them sports are all on different channels.

I'd agree though that a reasonable amount of blame can sit with Pivac, selections are absolutely all over the place and our reaction to lacking dynamic power last week is to bring in a 34 year old 6 who's never had a carrying game and a 32 year old wing that hasn't played in months.

He then points at AWJ's non 23 selection as looking at options yet keeps Priestland on the bench over Costelow, his rationale has no consistency and seems like he's just making throw away comments.

His dig at the regions of the fitness and form of the players was laughable too; the more time they're with Wales the better they get, well that showed up well against in the last game of the 6 nations against Italy didn't it.

I 2nd that RR. Pivac is and always has makes it up on the hoof. What about suggesting that the players who have played International rugby should, by now, realise the fitness levels that they need to be at before getting into camp. Wonder how Cuthbert's fitness levels are at the moment. 

Pivac has always loved a good scapegoat, if the players need to be fit and ready for international games why is he picking players for the squad who haven't even played this season?

cheers Ill just ask my fellow knights of the realm how to claim it all back in expenses 

Louis Rees Zammit might be out tomorrow as he missed training today 

Commercial considerations put ahead of rugby.

Agree re your roof closed consequence though.

We won.

Won’t be re-watching

Williams had best game for Wales Tuperic was very good. It wasn’t the best game I’ve seen but the defensive effort bearing in mind Argentina have beaten NZ, Australia and England away was superb. A lot better with people like Dillon Lewis and Thomas starting to look like international props. 

Ageee Anscombe and Beard however. 

LRZ should be inked in to start at 15 for the next two games. His pace and eye for the gap frightens teams and Argentina even doubled up defensively which left space elsewhere which we failed to exploit because I am afraid Anscombe is not the player he was before his injury, Priestland's legs have gone & Tompkins couldn't pick a pass at 12. Someone asked why he was hauled off on 52 minutes - well they had seen enough missed tackles and passes to everywhere except in front of his support player. 

Another forum member has made what I think is an astute observation - Costelow is the best 10 in this squad & I would suggest starting Blacker, Costelow, Hawkins & North to start against Georgia because we are still no nearer getting the ball wide into the hands of a very dangerous set of back three runners. 

Worryingly for the WRU lots of empty seats coming on top of no full house against NZ. None of the games this Autumn are being reported as sell outs. Tough economic times for sure. 

The Scarlets way?

I feel sorry for Tompkins as he, for me, is currently one of the first names on the teamsheet & he keeps getting taken off early when playing well. The best move would have been to take Cuthbert off & move North to wing.

I cannot share your sympathy for Tompkins - I find myself for once agreeing with Pivac. He is all action I admit but I fail to see any end product. He isn't big enough to take the ball up so you expect a clever kicker/distributor which he is neither. His passing is woeful for an international 12 & he isn't the best defensively. For me he wouldn't be in the squad let alone the team. 

If we're not looking further that the WC and going to try and bludgeon our way through a la Gats then we could do a lot worse than having Webb, Priestland, JBW and North as our 9, 10, 12, 13 combo.

Webb is playing as well/better than Cawdor & Hardy thats for sure but surely the idea must be to play with tempo so, for me, Tomos and we should give Blacker a start this weekend. Priestland was assured & can close out a game with good tactical kicking but as above we must surely be looking to play with tempo.

We are not going to succeed in 6 nations or World Cup by trying to bully teams. Ireland, France & England will more than match us up front; we don't have a dominant scrum; without Francis we don't trust our bench tight head with more than 10 minutes; our lineout is iffy & we are short of carriers. Pivac's selections have been scatter gun with no sign of a co-ordinated playing style. 

I'd agree with all that but we don't appear to be looking to play a high tempo game so might as well select a team that can defend, kick well and have some gain line who can do a job against Fiji and potentially Oz. We've then probably got England who we could potentially frustrate and see where we go from there.

We're nearly there now in terms of the WC so can't see a big shift in selection or style.

When we cut out the lazy penalties, we took control for 50 minutes.  If we can give away 6 or less a game going forwards we will always have a chance. 

It's a bit worrying that Pivac has had 3.5 years to get an A team and a B team in place with a unified game plan and playing style, yet we seem to have none of that.  Still, it's not going to change so I'll just be crossing my fingers until the world cup.  With Italy looking better with every game, scotland consistently inconsistent, ireland and france demolishing everyone and england full of big game players the 6N should be pretty tasty next year is all I can say.

One thing is for sure, very few people gave Wales hope of beating a side that had beaten NZ a short time ago, AND triumphed at Twickenham, a week before.

Overall, it was a far better, more physical, more committed performance from Wales.

After the NZ, I mentioned in a post, that Wales get better as the Autumn series progresses, and this proved the point. We were awful that game, in terms of not making the All blacks really WORK for their points. Same for the Scots, who looked rusty against Fiji, but could have beaten NZ.

After the level of rugby our teams having been playing for the regions, All Blacks, first up...a disaster!

Would we have beaten them, playing them last, possibly not, but it would be far more competitive.

The issue in rugby, and it hasn't changed over decades, is that you have to win the collisions, or be competitive. When Llanelli played all blacks in 72, same for the lions in 71, and 74 in SA, they would NOT, be physically intimidated or dominated.

Being together longer, in camp at least gives you a chance to increase the intensity, & edge which you need playing top international sides.

The major problem Wales have, however, is the lack of depth in the front 5, and this is worrying, with the world cup on the horizon.

It worth repeating, what I mentioned, in the other post, that when Gatland was there., and just over a year ago, we had Jake Ball and Hill in the second row, both different type of players, but both effective.

Now both are playing abroad sadly. To add to this AWJ was then playing at the top of his game, but now, after injury, looks a shadow of the player he was!

In the front row, we had a fully fit samson Lee (now destroyed by injury), Wyn Jones (now injury prone). Rob Evans (now a shadow of the player, again due to injury).

Very few of the current crop fill you with confidence, although Thomas, did better against ARG.

Two players with suspect scrummaging, but with the physicality are Carre, and Brown, both good ball carriers, we badly need. Carre not included in squad, and Brown, injured.

Both need to be involved in some way in future.

The other issue of course, on which gats built his success, was the aggressive defence, for which he had the best defence coach in the world Shaun Edwards. 

Much better defence v ARG, but in Gethin Jenkins, we have a young coach, learning at the top level (and everyone has to at some stage). He will be a really great coach in future, I am sure.

There are also selection and tactics, which Pivac , rightly or wrongly has been criticised for.

Gatland also got criticised, don't forget, for a limited gameplan.

Pivac has tried to expand the gameplan, and some have described as "scattergun "approach.

Personally, I think he has tried to do the right thing, maybe it's been executed badly.

We are never going to dominate teams up front, so we have to try something different.

This again had led to some bizarre selections, with Pivac trying different combinations.

Let's be honest about it he has very few quality options open to him, so has pursued as many avenues as possible.

Looking ahead there are different permutations in some positions, but in general we can see the bulk of his A side nailed down.

The questions?

Who plays FB, in the continues absence of Liam Williams (who's fitness is totally unreliable)

Who will play OH Biggar/ Anscombe?

Who plays 6 and 7.

I think Wales will beat Georgia and possibly Australia. Not sure about 6N

All the above, is a sideshow, however.

The real Mcoy is what the WRU will do to eradicate the decline of the game in Wales.

At the moment the structure of the WRU is not fit for purpose with small clubs, dictating.

The net result is that we cannot move forward as we should.

There should be a total Independant review of the game in Wales. Root and branch

This has been done with the women's game, and we have seen a few green shoots of success. The success here is to initially develop the game and greater participation in schools, then at U16/U18 & U20. 

The regional academies the league structure. leading up to the premiership and regions should be looked at.

what is happening ATM, clearly is not good enough, which is why we have a relatively small number of qualities international players to pick from.

Whether we have change or whether we stumble on as, we are, remains to be seen.

Finally, just a word about being a coach.

I spent 15 years as a player (played in a few finals), and near the end of my career, ended my time Unsurprisingly in the 2nds, playing with some of my older pupils (from 6th form) How embarrassing, which is when I packed it in .LOL

Nothing however prepares you for being a coach. 

My dad was an excellent at this, a real student of the game, with the South African Dannie Craven his real inspiration.

In contrast I found it quite difficult, despite my time as a player and my dad's template.  

As it happened, we had a family and the extra demands of teaching meant I shelved my coaching until much later when i coached the junior section, which I can honestly say was pure joy, and so rewarding, even though we didn't always win!

Pivac and Peel have had their critics on here, but are doing their best in circumstances which are far from ideal

It's a lonely old job, and undoubtedly both have made mistakes, at some stage!

Who would be a coach  ? 

When it's done well is done well, it's amazing. Just look at the job Smith has done for NZ women and the impact he's made!