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Wales team to face Georgia

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Topic: Wales team to face Georgia
Posted By: Fscarlet
Subject: Wales team to face Georgia
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 11:12am
Wales team to face Georgia: Rees-Zammit; Cuthbert, North, Watkin, Adams; Priestland, T Williams; G Thomas, Owens, D Lewis, Carter, Beard, J Morgan, Tipuric (capt), J Macleod.

Replacements: B Roberts, R Jones, S Wainwright, D Jenkins, Faletau, Blacker, Costelow, Halfpenny.

Congratulations to all Scarlets selected but especially to Josh.



Replies:
Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 11:20am
Glad Josh finally gets his chance, nice to see Dane on the bench along with Sam.


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 11:34am
I will be there Saturday ...the ball and chain said what are we doing for our anniversary (30th Saturday) I said ....Georgia or wakonda for ever (it's a marvel film) she said Georgia (through clenched teeth) 

Not to happy is she ...but I told if she's good I will also take to get chips down chippy Alley ....she's a very lucky girl Wink


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

I will be there Saturday ...the ball and chain said what are we doing for our anniversary (30th Saturday) I said ....Georgia or wakonda for ever (it's a marvel film) she said Georgia (through clenched teeth) 

Not to happy is she ...but I told if she's good I will also take to get chips down chippy Alley ....she's a very lucky girl Wink

You really are spoiling her Mike - you may live to regret it. Don't forget to share your culinary experiences on the food & drink thread. Wink


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 12:06pm
I think my input will be of bread and butter content to most but I feel assured that you all will relish Wink


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 12:21pm
Pleased for Josh and Dane...thought they might have had a look at Hawkins.


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 12:39pm
Three 7s in the starting back row. Desperately thin depth in Wales now. Wainwright, Moriarty not considered good enough at 8?

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What's going on?


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 1:38pm
No Ryan Ellias?

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Keep the faith


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

No Ryan Ellias?
He could do with a rest, probably and if you’re not going to let your number 3 hooker on the pitch against Georgia, when will you? I guess.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: SA23
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 2:11pm
Same could be said for fullback/centre with 4 wingers in the starting lineup.  Interesting to see what the plan is if Watkin gets injured. 


Posted By: SA23
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 2:12pm
Above post was meant to be in response to Gaffer, sorry. 



Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 3:55pm
Looks like it will be 4 tests in 4 weeks for ken not sure that’s ideal for player welfare tbh. Looks like it could the end for awj? What was the point of calling hawkins into squad?


Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

No Ryan Ellias?
He could do with a rest, probably and if you’re not going to let your number 3 hooker on the pitch against Georgia, when will you? I guess.
I’d have started Ryan and given Ken a rest, as I think Ken starts against Aus.


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 15 November 2022 at 7:38pm
With Ryan throwing, I might have caught the ball in the standWink


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:01pm
Stop kicking the ball away wales jac morgan superb player josh 1 great turnover but he isn’t at 8


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:17pm
Down to 14 men now, cuthbert yellow carded for taking opposing wing out in the air.  Wales are going to have to weather the storm now.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:28pm
Brain dead by cuthbert why we kicked so much is beyond ne


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:30pm
The coaching level for an international team is absolutely embarrassing, I hate welsh rugby it’s corrupt from top to bottom.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by Scrletsfan32x Scrletsfan32x wrote:

The coaching level for an international team is absolutely embarrassing, I hate welsh rugby it’s corrupt from top to bottom.
we really are a shambles today been second best all this half


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:36pm
Awful. No wonder people prefer the football. Glory chasing but there you go. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:38pm
Harsh high tackle call on them. Tupric literally our only line out option


Posted By: totallybiasedscarlet
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:48pm
We're about to lose this.

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"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:49pm
Gethin body language says a lot he literally can’t get far enough away from pivacWink


Posted By: totallybiasedscarlet
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:50pm
Pivac out?

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"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens


Posted By: totallybiasedscarlet
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:52pm
Totally took our foot off the gas after the second try. Absolutely deserved to lose.

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"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens


Posted By: Mr Ian
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:54pm
living a psycodrama..


Posted By: totallybiasedscarlet
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:55pm
Players faces tell the story. 

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"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:55pm
Get in there, We’ll done Georgia. If Pivac is in a job tonight then the WRU corruption is rotten to the core.


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:55pm
As I said last week, and totally ripped apart, we are a shambles and not able to compete at this level. We beat a poor Argentina team ladt week and everyone was bigging up thevteam. Today showed where we actually are. Too many shoe'in's completely underperforming and costing us dearly. Well done Geiriga. Thoroughly deserved. Lets re-start the Pivac out thread.

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 2:59pm
Dai iawn Georgia. Have to say they took it to wales in the second half and thoroughly deserved the win on merit.  Their 9 was immense.

Where to start with wales? Poor skills. Constantly kicked the ball away when we needed to hold on to it and have some possession. Brain dead yellow card again. Predictable and slow in attack on the few occasions we actually attacked instead of just kicking the leather off it. Pivac didn’t swap the halfbacks until it was waaaay too late. Scrum….let’s not talk about the scrum.

Interestingly when Josh was on the field he cleared out every ruck well and allowed us to use quick secure ball, he goes off and we go back to being under pressure at every breakdown. Also got a good couple of turnovers. One fumble off the lineout shouldn’t mar his good debut.  Not much else I can find to be positive about after that, aside from having lost at home to both Italy and Georgia this year even the WRU can’t justify renewing his contract once it’s up 


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:00pm
So who replaces him?


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:01pm
Got to feel for Macleod. He finally gets his cap and it’s in a home defeat to Georgia. He played ok but may never get another one. 

The coaching staff are under huge pressure now. If they don’t beat Australia with a good performance next week the WRU should look to bring someone else in.



Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:01pm
Feel very sorry for Dane Blacker.

An unused sub due to the performance of the starters and some replacements meant he wasn’t risked as the pursuit of a win ended in vain.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Feel very sorry for Dane Blacker.

An unused sub due to the performance of the starters and some replacements meant he wasn’t risked as the pursuit of a win ended in vain.
im on the lirac wales can drive anyone to drinkLOL


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

So who replaces him?
gats short term robertson long term


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Feel very sorry for Dane Blacker.

An unused sub due to the performance of the starters and some replacements meant he wasn’t risked as the pursuit of a win ended in vain.
im on the lirac wales can drive anyone to drinkLOL
At last, some quality on display.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:06pm
Absolutey deserved win by Georgia. Sums up where all of Welsh professional rugby is atm - amateur. Run by amateurs, coached by amateurs.

 Hopeless team selection and management by Pivac. The selection of forwards is a complete mess. Of the forward reserves only Falatau is international class - the others barely Welsh Premiership standard. 

If Shaun Edwards is serious about leaving France after the WC then the WRU should pay whatever it takes. Sadly, we're going to be stuck with this clown until that's over. 


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What's going on?


Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:10pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

So who replaces him?
They should be making Joe Schmidt a very large 4.5 season offer. I doubt they’d be able to get Robertson, but it’d be worth a try. 


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:10pm
That defeat is another signal failure, points failure and any other failure you care to mention. Whatever it was, it’s another blow to the foundations that support the WRU gravy train.

At last, some sense about governance spoken by Sam Warburton saying that the £100m business shouldn’t have the hard-working community game folk anywhere near running it. More of the above please.




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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:13pm
I'm going to agree with eastern now, I feel soooooooooo dirtyStar


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:14pm
Georgia did well he churlish not to praise them. Wales can’t
Even use all our best players have gone north excuse


Posted By: Lincscarlet
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:17pm
So disappointed in pivac’s interview there, doesn’t congratulate Georgia and doesn’t apologise for the shambles he served up.   Not sure what he needs to dissect the same issues have been on display for ages 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:20pm
Pivac cones across as a total chancer of a bloke and a coach, i’d boot him out tonight tbh


Posted By: Scrletsfan32x
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:23pm
Warburton was spot on, Amateurs running a professional game into the ground. Pivac and his team are simply not good enough. Let’s face facts we are 11 months out from the World Cup and we are getting to the QF at best. Let’s get Schmidt or Robertson in now, give them a contract until the 2027 World Cup and let’s start change now. All we are doing is delaying the inevitable by keeping Livac because we are going backwards at a rate of knots.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:26pm
I cannot think of any positives from that performance or from welsh rugby atm Were not producing any players at the academies and regions, weve never even produced a welsh regional coach capable of coaching test rugby. 

On the field today, demolished at set piece, outfought, out-thought, aimless kicking, failure to even compete in the air, mindless penalties like cuthberts yellow card...The backs have no shape no threat, messing around with zammett and adams as full backs has also failed. 

Unless the WRU sack themselves then we are finished at the top table




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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

I'm going to agree with eastern now, I feel soooooooooo dirtyStar
In contrast, my smugometer has just broken

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 3:37pm
There has to be a plan for the professional game. One which all the regions and premiership clubs can buy into. However, it cannot be imposed on these teams by the WRU it must be a partnership. It has to be realistically funded and incorporate a plan for regional success in whatever competitions they play in. Only this way will provide a platform for a fully competitive international team. The WRU's civil war against its professional teams has led to this catastrophe. A civil war prompted by amateurs wishing to preserve their gravy train.

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What's going on?


Posted By: Mr Ian
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 4:05pm
the only thing I can wish to you is that a loss aganist Georgia can held to find again yourselves, like happened to italy last june and this november.
Unfortunately Im not surprised about the result. At least the National team is a sum up of what regional rugby offers now a days


Posted By: tigerburnie
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 4:39pm
I think Wales have the same problem England have, the RFU is a bunch of unqualified (perhaps well meaning) amateurs who are well out of their depth, employing the wrong people to run the game and the National team. Jones is by far the worst coach we have ever had and will make a mess of the World Cup again, seems Pivac is about to do the same for you. Is it too late to change now, this close to a World Cup, no not in my book. Both nations have some excellent players, they are producing the goods away from the National team, so clearly any change now would be massively beneficial. The Lions manage to pull something out of the bag without a few years run up, new coaches, throw themselves into the 6 Nations and see what happens, it can't get any worse can it?


Posted By: Kentexile
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 5:00pm
There is a 6 Nations and3 World Cup warm up games so agree plenty of time for a new coaching set up to bed in.


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 5:08pm
The debate around sacking Pivac is a purely financial one, I don’t know anyone who is thinking he should be offered the position beyond the WC.

So the question is, is there a chance that Wales won’t make it out of the group to QFs? 

The answer to that has to be yes! We almost lost to 14man Fifi last year and have lost to Georgia today. The game against Australia is literally do or die.

And EVEN if we do beat Australia, what’s the point in keeping Pivac in place - it’s too high risk.

He’s on £400k per year so if we Sack him at the turn of the NY that’s the price plus whatever the new coach needs - ~£600k.

But leaving the World Cup in the group stages probably would cost (-£1m) plus another 5th-6th place 6N finish is maybe -300k. So there’s possibly a financial case for getting rid of him and rolling the dice on someone - anyone - to try and galvanise them dressing room. 

F*** it, I’d take Eddie Jones right now!


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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 5:44pm

What hurts even more than the defeats is the lack of passion and energy...Were being out-passioned by everyone.  why do we expect any different? regional rugby is an ab[beep]e yawn fest too...

Is this just a reflection of the mess our society is currently in? 


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 5:53pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:


What hurts even more than the defeats is the lack of passion and energy...Were being out-passioned by everyone.  why do we expect any different? regional rugby is an ab[beep]e yawn fest too...

Is this just a reflection of the mess our society is currently in? 

This can only be because the players aren’t playing for the head coach

Too many mixed messages, not enough clarity - doubt it’s it individuals who aren’t passionate about wales they’re just not sure about what they’re “supposed” to be doing.

Hence change required 


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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: Scarlets094
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 6:03pm
Win against Australia next week and it makes up for losing today.


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 6:08pm
Originally posted by Scarlets094 Scarlets094 wrote:

Win against Australia next week and it makes up for losing today.

Really? A 2 point victory over the team that just lost to Italy?

If it’s not a 15+ point victory I’d part ways.

He’s just too inconsistent. To go far in the World Cup we have to beat Fiji, Georgia, Australia and then Argentina/Japan or England. 

At the moment Pivac can’t put 2 wins together against tier 1 or tier 2 nations. He’s a liability.

Getting Gatland on a 1y to the World Cup would meaningfully put a firecracker up the players backsides, even if none of the other coaching staff changed.

(This is not going to happen, I’m just saying something like that should happen)


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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: dyniol53
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 6:12pm
Wales have Italy, Scotland and France AWAY in the 6N

Ireland up first and England at home.

We are staring down the barrel of a wooden spoon if something isn’t done. 

I have defended Pivac on here for years against other posters but it’s now pretty clear he is not a top coach and lived off discovering a freak Lion in Bierne , an underrated Cubby and resurgent Jon Barclay - and then had the luckiest 6N victory of all. 

He’s never put together a sustained period of good form, only a few memorable purple patches.


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https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 6:31pm
The trouble is that if the coaches are sacked the scarlets will be signing stevo in an instant and he showed precious little after our winning season and even less with wales .


Posted By: gaffer
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 7:42pm
Think of the worst-case scenario…that’s the one the WRUin will adopt.

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What's going on?


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

The trouble is that if the coaches are sacked the scarlets will be signing stevo in an instant and he showed precious little after our winning season and even less with wales .



His Wales tenure seems anonymous in terms of impact. Who knows whether he gets to play the game or players he wants to play mind.


Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Feel very sorry for Dane Blacker.

An unused sub due to the performance of the starters and some replacements meant he wasn’t risked as the pursuit of a win ended in vain.
If I was Dane, I’d be thrilled to not have this poo result on my record and perhaps a better occasion for a first cap.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 10:09pm
He must want a cap regardless


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 19 November 2022 at 11:47pm
I have watched some awful Wales performances in my time, but this MUST take the biscuitConfused !

In fairness, as quite a few on the forum have said full credit to Georgia, they played well, but are a limited side, who Wales should normally (in the past) beat, 9 times out of 10.

Problem with that statement "normally", may not now come in to play...and WHY, absolute lack of depth to what we have available, particularly in the front five.

To beat Georgia, we needed to get over the gain line, and move the ball quickly, varying the point of attack. It didn't happen. Lack of ball carriers, quite evident
After two quick scores in the first half, we had Georgia on the ropes, but didn't take advantage.
They were committing offences regularly, but not once did I see Tipuric in the ref's ear.
He may have been a great player, but as a captain, has to be assertive, to ensure officials are aware that offences are mounting. Not a great choice by Pivac, but again, he has limited options.
Second half Georgians, a better side

I watched a very spirited, but flawed performance by Australia against Ireland earlier. Unlucky, to at least not get a draw.
There is very little likelihood of Wales beating them, and therefore, we would end an abysmal autumn series, and poor 2022.

I always try to be positive and have been supportive of Pivac in the past. His record though, is shockingly poor, and getting worse.
Started well, when we won 6 nations, but there were a few more options regarding players available then. We beat aussies last autumn and SA this summer, but these performances are sporadic.
He has had to experiment, due to lack of quality &numbers, but some of the decisions have been bizarre.
We desperately need ball carriers, but big guys like Rhys Carre , who despite my reservations about his scrummaging has played better this year. Moriarty is another glaring omission.

Tactically Wales seem bereft of leadership, on and off the field, with little cohesion and creativity.
There appears no clear vision of how we want to play the game, and if there is a plan, the players themselves seen inept with regard to their skills set to put any plan into practise. The game is littered with unforced errors.
Now normally, we see an improvement, as the 6 nations or Autumn series continues, as the players have had longer together. NOT THIS Time, and maybe the loss to Italy was another indication.

It's clear to me Pivac's position, whatever the result against Australia is untenable, and Stephen Jones must also shoulder the blame for the turgid and unimaginative attack, which looks for contact, not space 
It's a gamble to change a coaching team, with the world cup a year away, but we can do no worse!
There is also the financial aspect of compensation with regard to contracts (etc), to be considered, but as someone on the forum has already mentioned, if things don't change, we could lose out financially to a bigger tune in the long run.

Finally, changing the coaches, is only a short-term fix.
The bigger problem is changing the culture, structure and organisation of rugby in Wales 
HAS TO BE SERIOUS CHANGES going forward.
There has been a steady decline over the last decade, papered over by the way Gatland and his coaching team got the best out of the players, again and again.
Now he has gone, the cracks are exposed.
The regions cannot carry on failing in the way they are, and they are not supported adequately, by the top tiers of the community game or premiership.
The WRU has proved time and again, it cannot be trusted.
How can we plan for next season, when budgets, are still not yet agreed upon?
What business can possibly operate like that?

The way the union have approached the women's game, prove it can be done.
Root and branch changes need to be made and a firm commitment to build from a solid base, with strong investment to grow the game, from a young age, right through
Only then, we will have better chance of success on the international stage, on a regular basis.
This is the only way we will survive!





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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: jeremy windell
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 12:09am
We are poo 

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Go ahead..........Take those banana's


Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 2:03am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

He must want a cap regardless
Absolutely. Just trying to take a positive for Dane. I’m a huge fan of his and know his time will come.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 6:23am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

I have watched some awful Wales performances in my time, but this MUST take the biscuitConfused !

In fairness, as quite a few on the forum have said full credit to Georgia, they played well, but are a limited side, who Wales should normally (in the past) beat, 9 times out of 10.

Problem with that statement "normally", may not now come in to play...and WHY, absolute lack of depth to what we have available, particularly in the front five.

To beat Georgia, we needed to get over the gain line, and move the ball quickly, varying the point of attack. It didn't happen. Lack of ball carriers, quite evident
After two quick scores in the first half, we had Georgia on the ropes, but didn't take advantage.
They were committing offences regularly, but not once did I see Tipuric in the ref's ear.
He may have been a great player, but as a captain, has to be assertive, to ensure officials are aware that offences are mounting. Not a great choice by Pivac, but again, he has limited options.
Second half Georgians, a better side

I watched a very spirited, but flawed performance by Australia against Ireland earlier. Unlucky, to at least not get a draw.
There is very little likelihood of Wales beating them, and therefore, we would end an abysmal autumn series, and poor 2022.

I always try to be positive and have been supportive of Pivac in the past. His record though, is shockingly poor, and getting worse.
Started well, when we won 6 nations, but there were a few more options regarding players available then. We beat aussies last autumn and SA this summer, but these performances are sporadic.
He has had to experiment, due to lack of quality &numbers, but some of the decisions have been bizarre.
We desperately need ball carriers, but big guys like Rhys Carre , who despite my reservations about his scrummaging has played better this year. Moriarty is another glaring omission.

Tactically Wales seem bereft of leadership, on and off the field, with little cohesion and creativity.
There appears no clear vision of how we want to play the game, and if there is a plan, the players themselves seen inept with regard to their skills set to put any plan into practise. The game is littered with unforced errors.
Now normally, we see an improvement, as the 6 nations or Autumn series continues, as the players have had longer together. NOT THIS Time, and maybe the loss to Italy was another indication.

It's clear to me Pivac's position, whatever the result against Australia is untenable, and Stephen Jones must also shoulder the blame for the turgid and unimaginative attack, which looks for contact, not space 
It's a gamble to change a coaching team, with the world cup a year away, but we can do no worse!
There is also the financial aspect of compensation with regard to contracts (etc), to be considered, but as someone on the forum has already mentioned, if things don't change, we could lose out financially to a bigger tune in the long run.

Finally, changing the coaches, is only a short-term fix.
The bigger problem is changing the culture, structure and organisation of rugby in Wales 
HAS TO BE SERIOUS CHANGES going forward.
There has been a steady decline over the last decade, papered over by the way Gatland and his coaching team got the best out of the players, again and again.
Now he has gone, the cracks are exposed.
The regions cannot carry on failing in the way they are, and they are not supported adequately, by the top tiers of the community game or premiership.
The WRU has proved time and again, it cannot be trusted.
How can we plan for next season, when budgets, are still not yet agreed upon?
What business can possibly operate like that?

The way the union have approached the women's game, prove it can be done.
Root and branch changes need to be made and a firm commitment to build from a solid base, with strong investment to grow the game, from a young age, right through
Only then, we will have better chance of success on the international stage, on a regular basis.
This is the only way we will survive!




Good point about moriarty, an abrasive specimen who at least attempts to cross the gain line


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: N14
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 7:47am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

I have watched some awful Wales performances in my time, but this MUST take the biscuitConfused !

In fairness, as quite a few on the forum have said full credit to Georgia, they played well, but are a limited side, who Wales should normally (in the past) beat, 9 times out of 10.

Problem with that statement "normally", may not now come in to play...and WHY, absolute lack of depth to what we have available, particularly in the front five.

To beat Georgia, we needed to get over the gain line, and move the ball quickly, varying the point of attack. It didn't happen. Lack of ball carriers, quite evident
After two quick scores in the first half, we had Georgia on the ropes, but didn't take advantage.
They were committing offences regularly, but not once did I see Tipuric in the ref's ear.
He may have been a great player, but as a captain, has to be assertive, to ensure officials are aware that offences are mounting. Not a great choice by Pivac, but again, he has limited options.
Second half Georgians, a better side

I watched a very spirited, but flawed performance by Australia against Ireland earlier. Unlucky, to at least not get a draw.
There is very little likelihood of Wales beating them, and therefore, we would end an abysmal autumn series, and poor 2022.

I always try to be positive and have been supportive of Pivac in the past. His record though, is shockingly poor, and getting worse.
Started well, when we won 6 nations, but there were a few more options regarding players available then. We beat aussies last autumn and SA this summer, but these performances are sporadic.
He has had to experiment, due to lack of quality &numbers, but some of the decisions have been bizarre.
We desperately need ball carriers, but big guys like Rhys Carre , who despite my reservations about his scrummaging has played better this year. Moriarty is another glaring omission.

Tactically Wales seem bereft of leadership, on and off the field, with little cohesion and creativity.
There appears no clear vision of how we want to play the game, and if there is a plan, the players themselves seen inept with regard to their skills set to put any plan into practise. The game is littered with unforced errors.
Now normally, we see an improvement, as the 6 nations or Autumn series continues, as the players have had longer together. NOT THIS Time, and maybe the loss to Italy was another indication.

It's clear to me Pivac's position, whatever the result against Australia is untenable, and Stephen Jones must also shoulder the blame for the turgid and unimaginative attack, which looks for contact, not space 
It's a gamble to change a coaching team, with the world cup a year away, but we can do no worse!
There is also the financial aspect of compensation with regard to contracts (etc), to be considered, but as someone on the forum has already mentioned, if things don't change, we could lose out financially to a bigger tune in the long run.

Finally, changing the coaches, is only a short-term fix.
The bigger problem is changing the culture, structure and organisation of rugby in Wales 
HAS TO BE SERIOUS CHANGES going forward.
There has been a steady decline over the last decade, papered over by the way Gatland and his coaching team got the best out of the players, again and again.
Now he has gone, the cracks are exposed.
The regions cannot carry on failing in the way they are, and they are not supported adequately, by the top tiers of the community game or premiership.
The WRU has proved time and again, it cannot be trusted.
How can we plan for next season, when budgets, are still not yet agreed upon?
What business can possibly operate like that?

The way the union have approached the women's game, prove it can be done.
Root and branch changes need to be made and a firm commitment to build from a solid base, with strong investment to grow the game, from a young age, right through
Only then, we will have better chance of success on the international stage, on a regular basis.
This is the only way we will survive!




Good point about moriarty, an abrasive specimen who at least attempts to cross the gain line

His discipline has been poor for as long as I can remember


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 7:59am
Surely the WRU must terminate the contracts of the coaching team en bloc. The performances are totally unacceptable. What happened about we get better as we have more access to the players - total stupidity. The WRU should already have agreed a contract with the next head coach - all that remains to be done is to try to bring their start date forward to January 1st. Months ago my suggestions were Robertson or Shaun Edwards as head coach. Shaun is now out of the equation as he has signed an extension to 2027 with France. 

Get Robertson in with his own team - pay whatever compensation they need to the Crusaders. Pivac & his coaching team have made us a laughing stock & it has to end now. 


Posted By: Mr Ian
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 8:06am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Surely the WRU must terminate the contracts of the coaching team en bloc. The performances are totally unacceptable. What happened about we get better as we have more access to the players - total stupidity. The WRU should already have agreed a contract with the next head coach - all that remains to be done is to try to bring their start date forward to January 1st. Months ago my suggestions were Robertson or Shaun Edwards as head coach. Shaun is now out of the equation as he has signed an extension to 2027 with France. 

Get Robertson in with his own team - pay whatever compensation they need to the Crusaders. Pivac & his coaching team have made us a laughing stock & it has to end now. 


him or Pat Lam...the difficoult is to understand who is more congeniale with welsh style....
at least give all the bads on Pivac it s not so honest...he manages the players that the system develops..


Posted By: dr_martinov
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 8:50am
Very glad I celebrated the 2019 Grand Slam as hard as I did as that could be the last for a while. Shame I don't remember any of it. LOL

We did beat Argentina as well so I guess it's not all bad, but losing to Georgia indicates a severe lack of preparation, poor game plan and players cannot be implementing their skills, fitness and strength on the pitch. I didn't watch the game so that is based on player level, you know Georgia will have a top front row, strong scrum plus a danger player or two but Wales should be superior in all other aspects. 

I will say well done to Georgia but yet another massive wake up call for Wales. Losing to Italy and Georgia in Cardiff should not be acceptable. A win against Australia would certainly improve things so I even say this is now a must win game for Pivac and co. I actually wouldn't be surprised if we won as it's the inconsistency that's our current hallmark.


Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 9:09am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Very glad I celebrated the 2019 Grand Slam as hard as I did as that could be the last for a while. Shame I don't remember any of it. LOL

We did beat Argentina as well so I guess it's not all bad, but losing to Georgia indicates a severe lack of preparation, poor game plan and players cannot be implementing their skills, fitness and strength on the pitch. I didn't watch the game so that is based on player level, you know Georgia will have a top front row, strong scrum plus a danger player or two but Wales should be superior in all other aspects. 

I will say well done to Georgia but yet another massive wake up call for Wales. Losing to Italy and Georgia in Cardiff should not be acceptable. A win against Australia would certainly improve things so I even say this is now a must win game for Pivac and co. I actually wouldn't be surprised if we won as it's the inconsistency that's our current hallmark.

You expect a tough pack but in fairness the two best backs on show were their 9 & 15. There is something deeply worrying about the morale & attitude in the camp. My personal view is that the players do not rate Pivac; I don't think his man management inspires loyalty in the way that Gatland & Edwards did. His selections since he took over have been haphazard. Where was Francis yesterday? Against Argentina he kept Dillon Lewis on the field for 70 minutes - which is a reflection of what he thinks about Wainwright. Given almost 30 minutes yesterday Wainwright was taken to the cleaners. 

Now Wainwright may well be a talent for the future but at the moment the lad should not be anywhere near this squad. He has had less than 20 minutes rugby for Saracens this season - how on earth can that prepare you for International rugby. Harri O'Connor is further along the road at the moment. Equally Cuthbert is brought into games with zero rugby & surprise, surprise he plays poorly. Why not stick with Rio Dyer? His back row all picked up the wrong shirts with Jac playing 7, Josh 6 & Tips 8 - what is that all about? One of the top responsibilities of being head coach is in selection - Pivac has never got anywhere near to understanding or delivering on that.


Posted By: sreve19
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 10:32am
The coaching set up rightly have to shoulder the blame but the players showed no desire or want. Georgia played with passion and pride whereas our boys thought all they had to do was turn up. 


Posted By: Legendinmybathroom
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 12:02pm
Let’s start by congratulating Georgia on a win away to a 6 nations country.  They showed greater composure and game management in the second half (which is when the game is won or lost).
The welsh team showed no composure at any stage in the game. 
The forwards were woeful, our scrum got destroyed by the Georgian pack, our lineout wasn’t great, meaning that it was difficult to get quick ball, the exception being the 1st Jac Morgan try.  Beard shouldn’t be anywhere near the national squad, let alone be the lineout captain, Tipuric is another living off past reputation (and you could argue a lack of players upto international standard being available).
Tomos Williams continues to just play his own game, meaning that the other welsh backs are often either chasing his aimless kicks or are too far behind to offer him any support lines.  North and Watkins are too one dimensional to play alongside eachother, you need 2 contrasting centres to be successful at breaking defences in the modern game, also North can’t tackle well and takes too long to get back in the defensive line when he is beaten.
The back 3 (on paper) should be very dangerous with go forward ball, but as we saw yesterday, the platform wasn’t there and the players inside were too slow to put them in space.
Pivac and co are not up to the job, their selections are too inconsistent, so are their messages about the reasons for their selections, however, the problem lies more with the WRU.
Time and time again we see developments in the professional game blocked by gras roots members (due to our archaic model), we’ve seen a business model that see’s a bigger interest in making money over rugby development.  We’ve seen money invested in hotels over regional and grassroots rugby.
We’ve seen punts on coaches at both at national and regional level (probably due to funding constraints) time and time again.
Gatland managed to mould players into winners, due to his playing structure, in spite of the system, not because of the system.  Pivac doesn’t appear to have that skill and the results are clear to see.
People will now be calling for change and the WRU will probably recommend reducing the number of regions again.  That would be disastrous as it would reduce the opportunities for new players and would seriously reduce the number of players available for selection.  We need more funds to allow the regions to build bigger squads.


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Let’s start by congratulating Georgia on a win away to a 6 nations country.  They showed greater composure and game management in the second half (which is when the game is won or lost).
The welsh team showed no composure at any stage in the game. 
The forwards were woeful, our scrum got destroyed by the Georgian pack, our lineout wasn’t great, meaning that it was difficult to get quick ball, the exception being the 1st Jac Morgan try.  Beard shouldn’t be anywhere near the national squad, let alone be the lineout captain, Tipuric is another living off past reputation (and you could argue a lack of players upto international standard being available).
Tomos Williams continues to just play his own game, meaning that the other welsh backs are often either chasing his aimless kicks or are too far behind to offer him any support lines.  North and Watkins are too one dimensional to play alongside eachother, you need 2 contrasting centres to be successful at breaking defences in the modern game, also North can’t tackle well and takes too long to get back in the defensive line when he is beaten.
The back 3 (on paper) should be very dangerous with go forward ball, but as we saw yesterday, the platform wasn’t there and the players inside were too slow to put them in space.
Pivac and co are not up to the job, their selections are too inconsistent, so are their messages about the reasons for their selections, however, the problem lies more with the WRU.
Time and time again we see developments in the professional game blocked by gras roots members (due to our archaic model), we’ve seen a business model that see’s a bigger interest in making money over rugby development.  We’ve seen money invested in hotels over regional and grassroots rugby.
We’ve seen punts on coaches at both at national and regional level (probably due to funding constraints) time and time again.
Gatland managed to mould players into winners, due to his playing structure, in spite of the system, not because of the system.  Pivac doesn’t appear to have that skill and the results are clear to see.
People will now be calling for change and the WRU will probably recommend reducing the number of regions again.  That would be disastrous as it would reduce the opportunities for new players and would seriously reduce the number of players available for selection.  We need more funds to allow the regions to build bigger squads.

Legend is correct in what he says,and mirrors what I said earlier about fundemetal change including a total review of the funding model.
Whatever  coach comes in has to deal with the same system,and a completely  shortage of quality players at top level.
I imagine if we had started with a better spine of Francis,a fully fit wyn Jones, Rowlands,falateu, plus a better balanced midfield
( tomkins/Anscombe ) things might have been better.Also we missed the competitors that Dan Bigger is, and despite his limitations,  is a good leader, maybe  if a little too vociferous(opposite of Tips)
The point is however, we should have enough players to to cover these individuals,  but we do'nt as yesterday proved.
The structure of how we play is also missing,  but not having a huge number of carriers limits us.

One final point.
Putting things in perspective, a below parr Ireland, were still good enough to beat the aussies yesterday,  highlighting the depth they now have on a week to week basis.
Scotland slaughtered a pumas, who we struggled to beat plus a very average England were able to claw back a draw against one of the poorest all blacks side I have seen..a side which slaughtered Wales.

It really is time for change.


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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: hoppy
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 1:57pm
Wales have lost 8 out of 11 Internationals this year 

Should Georgia be bought into the six nations after beating Italy and Wales 


Posted By: hoppy
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 2:23pm
Watched highlights of the game on s4C last night that was enough 

Feel sorry for the 63,585 Fans who paid good money to watch it




Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by hoppy hoppy wrote:

Wales have lost 8 out of 11 Internationals this year 

Should Georgia be bought into the six nations after beating Italy and Wales 

Next year will be worse


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 2:40pm
Welsh rugby has issues all over the place which contribute towards that performance but pivac got things badly wrong again.

Having a front 5 of Jones, Roberts, Wainwright, beard and Jenkins and a 9 who's played the full 80 alongside a youngster at 10 to see the game out is tactically awful.

If you want to see how less experienced players go you probably put someone like awj alongside carter or Jenkins, in the frontrow you'd want ken alongside Wainwright, halfbacks you start with either costelow or dane. Pivac and gats before him really aren't very smart when bringing players through.


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by hoppy hoppy wrote:

Wales have lost 8 out of 11 Internationals this year 

Should Georgia be bought into the six nations after beating Italy and Wales 
South Africa will be the next side joining the Six Nations 

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I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 4:25pm
Just read  what Sam warburton has said about the governance  of WRU, and he is spot on.
In Wales, we have the 'tail wagging the dog',and small clubs blocking essential changes..such as the recent meeting,which has already  been covered and commented on by the forum. 
LEGEND, has also mentioned  this in a recent  post.

Sacking Pivac is correct,  but the fundamental  changes which govern our game must go hand in hand.
We cannot go on the way we are , sweeping under the carpet the general deterioration of rugby in Wales , by the occasional good international  performance ,and that's becoming a  rare commodity Ouch


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I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Welsh rugby has issues all over the place which contribute towards that performance but pivac got things badly wrong again.

Having a front 5 of Jones, Roberts, Wainwright, beard and Jenkins and a 9 who's played the full 80 alongside a youngster at 10 to see the game out is tactically awful.

If you want to see how less experienced players go you probably put someone like awj alongside carter or Jenkins, in the frontrow you'd want ken alongside Wainwright, halfbacks you start with either costelow or dane. Pivac and gats before him really aren't very smart when bringing players through.


These were inevitable, almost engineered, outcomes, as was starting a 6,8,12,13 and 15 in shirts that their club/region don't.

Clearly we were planned to be home and hosed by the hour mark, and to be fair after 20 mins that looked a reasonable possibility, what ensued however, was a bus crash of biblical proportions.

You have to feel a bit for Daf Jenkins, Costelow and even Wainwright to an extent...put on with the opposition in the ascendancy and expected to see the team home.

Nicky Smith and Francis on the naughty step, Carre excluded in the manner of us having options in the front row akin to that of SA...?

Georgia are a Tier 1 country in one facet of play alone, scrums...so you pick a front row bench that aren't first choice for their teams, have a handful of playing minutes between them this season to match them?

Nah, you deserve all you get. Daft.

You can bring AWJ, Anscombe and presumably Francis back in next week (losing Rees-Zammitt, Daf Jenkins, Tompkins, Tschiunza and Refell to the squad).
Hardly ideal against an improved Australia.



Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 5:02pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Welsh rugby has issues all over the place which contribute towards that performance but pivac got things badly wrong again.

Having a front 5 of Jones, Roberts, Wainwright, beard and Jenkins and a 9 who's played the full 80 alongside a youngster at 10 to see the game out is tactically awful.

If you want to see how less experienced players go you probably put someone like awj alongside carter or Jenkins, in the frontrow you'd want ken alongside Wainwright, halfbacks you start with either costelow or dane. Pivac and gats before him really aren't very smart when bringing players through.


These were inevitable, almost engineered, outcomes, as was starting a 6,8,12,13 and 15 in shirts that their club/region don't.

Clearly we were planned to be home and hosed by the hour mark, and to be fair after 20 mins that looked a reasonable possibility, what ensued however, was a bus crash of biblical proportions.

You have to feel a bit for Daf Jenkins, Costelow and even Wainwright to an extent...put on with the opposition in the ascendancy and expected to see the team home.

Nicky Smith and Francis on the naughty step, Carre excluded in the manner of us having options in the front row akin to that of SA...?

Georgia are a Tier 1 country in one facet of play alone, scrums...so you pick a front row bench that aren't first choice for their teams, have a handful of playing minutes between them this season to match them?

Nah, you deserve all you get. Daft.

You can bring AWJ, Anscombe and presumably Francis back in next week (losing Rees-Zammitt, Daf Jenkins, Tompkins, Tschiunza and Refell to the squad).
Hardly ideal against an improved Australia.


and 10, priestland is not 1st choice at cardiff going back to him at this stage is madness
jarod , cowtelow and sheedy are far better options imo


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: scarletnut
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 5:16pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Welsh rugby has issues all over the place which contribute towards that performance but pivac got things badly wrong again.

Having a front 5 of Jones, Roberts, Wainwright, beard and Jenkins and a 9 who's played the full 80 alongside a youngster at 10 to see the game out is tactically awful.

If you want to see how less experienced players go you probably put someone like awj alongside carter or Jenkins, in the frontrow you'd want ken alongside Wainwright, halfbacks you start with either costelow or dane. Pivac and gats before him really aren't very smart when bringing players through.


These were inevitable, almost engineered, outcomes, as was starting a 6,8,12,13 and 15 in shirts that their club/region don't.

Clearly we were planned to be home and hosed by the hour mark, and to be fair after 20 mins that looked a reasonable possibility, what ensued however, was a bus crash of biblical proportions.

You have to feel a bit for Daf Jenkins, Costelow and even Wainwright to an extent...put on with the opposition in the ascendancy and expected to see the team home.

Nicky Smith and Francis on the naughty step, Carre excluded in the manner of us having options in the front row akin to that of SA...?

Georgia are a Tier 1 country in one facet of play alone, scrums...so you pick a front row bench that aren't first choice for their teams, have a handful of playing minutes between them this season to match them?

Nah, you deserve all you get. Daft.

You can bring AWJ, Anscombe and presumably Francis back in next week (losing Rees-Zammitt, Daf Jenkins, Tompkins, Tschiunza and Refell to the squad).
Hardly ideal against an improved Australia.

It would have papered over the cracks big time but if Pivac had selected Nicky Smith and Tomas Francis on the bench I’m fairly certain Wales would have won.

-------------
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 5:43pm
lest we forget pivac was playing hadligh parkes at 10 ? on the subject of parkes weve really missed his class in the centre

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Sosban89
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 6:14pm
I think we have so little quality in depth that Pivac is trying to shoehorn in his better players by playing them in any position possible. It doesn't work though. 


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 6:37pm
Originally posted by hoppy hoppy wrote:

Watched highlights of the game on s4C last night that was enough 

Feel sorry for the 63,585 Fans who paid good money to watch it



I think it was about a tenner. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 7:26pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

I think we have so little quality in depth that Pivac is trying to shoehorn in his better players by playing them in any position possible. It doesn't work though. 
i  just think he is clueless tbh jenkins a good young prospect no where near ready for test rugby, josh fine player but not an 8. Cuthbert is miles off in terms of match fitness, brnging on 2 props who are are iffy scrummagers and a small sub hwker against a strong scrummaging side was madness cheers wayne


Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 8:38pm
Originally posted by Tony Clifton Tony Clifton wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Feel very sorry for Dane Blacker.

An unused sub due to the performance of the starters and some replacements meant he wasn’t risked as the pursuit of a win ended in vain.
If I was Dane, I’d be thrilled to not have this poo result on my record and perhaps a better occasion for a first cap.
Couldn’t believe he kept Williams on who kept doing the same thing time and time again even though it never worked 


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She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 20 November 2022 at 10:16pm
Watching the game this Evening I thought Georgia were excellent tbh...deserved winners.
Rugby is also played in the head....and Wales believe they are better than they are...




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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: SA23
Date Posted: 21 November 2022 at 10:40am
£10 for adults.  Half Price for kids.  Would have cost us £30 for a family of 4 so we were considering going.  Glad we didn't though! 


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 21 November 2022 at 5:53pm
Its not only the cost of tickets. Travel, parking, food, drink, etc. That goez up to over £100 not £30. Expensive day out

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The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.



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