Challenge Cup 2023/24 Thread
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Category: RUGBY
Forum Name: SCARLETS GENERAL
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URL: https://scarletfever.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47373
Printed Date: 03 December 2023 at 4:53am
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Topic: Challenge Cup 2023/24 Thread
Posted By: Fscarlet
Subject: Challenge Cup 2023/24 Thread
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 9:08am
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The draw for the 2 European competitions take place today, with the Challenge Cup draw starting at 12:30 UK time & then the Champions Cup draw taking place at around 12:50. In short, 3 pools of 6 teams with 2 Top 14 sides in each pool & then the rest of the places made up of teams from the URC, Premiership & 2 invitees. Teams from the same URC shield cannot be placed in the same pool - so we will be kept separate from the Ospreys & Dragons. Clubs will play 4 teams home or away during the pool stage, as ever fixtures will be made available a few weeks after the draw. BKT UNITED RUGBY CHAMPIONSHIP – Cell C Sharks,
Emirates Lions, Benetton Rugby, Edinburgh Rugby, Ospreys, Scarlets, Dragons
RFC, Zebre Parma TOP 14 – Castres Olympique, ASM Clermont Auvergne,
Montpellier Hérault Rugby, Section Paloise, USAP, Oyonnax Rugby GALLAGHER PREMIERSHIP – Gloucester Rugby, Newcastle
Falcons INVITED – Two clubs to be confirmed I'll be watching the draw, live on EPC Rugby's website & will try to post the draw as it happens.
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Replies:
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 10:07am
Top man.
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Fscarlet wrote:Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 10:58am
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thanks FScarlet ------------- Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet! |
Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 12:40pm
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Pool A Pool B Pool C Invitee 1 Ospreys Edinburgh Pau USAP Castres Dragons Newcastle Scarlets Zebre Lions Clermont Oyonnax Montpellier Invitee 2 Cell C Sharks Benetton Gloucester We will play 4 sides home or away from pool 3. Invitee teams to be confirmed at a later date. |
Posted By: turkishrebel
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 12:56pm
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thanks FScarlet, some nice teams to play there and some good trips ------------- Once a Scarlet, always a Scarlet! |
Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 12:58pm
| No problem, there are rumours that one of the invitees will be a Georgian side & possibly the second may be Jersey. |
Posted By: ChrisX
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 1:15pm
| so who do we play? such a confusing format? Just 4 out of the 5 and either home or away? |
Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 1:16pm
You got it.
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Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 1:56pm
What a shame, although nothing against the Eng Championship winners or the top Georgian club. ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 2:02pm
It's not set in stone, only rumblings as to what I have seen online.
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Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 2:03pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 2:42pm
QUOTE=Eastern outpost]
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Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 3:48pm
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Wouldn’t have thought Jersey would get a place before Ealing but you never know. Toughest group for us, yay. As much as I fancy a trip to Queensholme, if we get Gloucester & Clermont at home then we can top the group ------------- As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten |
Posted By: bydder
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 8:21pm
Jersey won the championship which is fair I guess ------------- N11 |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 21 June 2023 at 9:27pm
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Two French opposition plus Glos and Mystery invitee 2 would appear to be our opposition, on the basis that we may not be playing anyone in our league. Also, one french side away and the other at home, is what has been put forward as a likely scenario. Any thoughts? ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 8:03am
I'd have thought so, I think the Dragons & Ospreys may end up playing their URC counterparts.
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Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 8:30am
| Having been to Clermont once before I would fancy a trip to Castres. |
Posted By: NobbySosban
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 5:01pm
Really not clear on how the Pool opponents are decided from any of the EPCR blurb.  They talk about avoiding inter-URC matches where possible, which would suggest Castres, ASM, Glaws & 'Invitee 2', 2 Home & 2 Away. However, Dragons have 2 other URC teams in their Pool, so I guess will have to play one of them. Not sure the EPCR explainer really helps:
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Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 5:08pm
Will await the weekend order of who/where we play with interest, despite the element of farce in how the slimmed down pool stages work. ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: bydder
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 5:46pm
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Personally would love a trip to Clermont over the others ------------- N11 |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 5:55pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: sreve19
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 7:03pm
| When do they announce the fixtures dates? |
Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 7:12pm
Below are the dates, Round 1 – 8/9/10 December 2023 Round 2 – 15/16/17 December 2023 Round 3 – 12/13/14 January 2024 Round 4 – 19/20/21 January 2024 Round of 16 – 5/6/7 April 2024 Quarter-finals – 12/13/14 April 2024 Semi-finals – 3/4/5 May 2024 EPCR Challenge Cup final – Friday 24 May 2024, Tottenham Hotspur Stadium Champions Cup final – Saturday 25 May 2024, Tottenham Hotspur Stadium |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 8:09pm
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Who and which weekends we play are known mid August, iirc. Don’t think that will be which day & time, although hopefully it will tell us home or away. ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 8:15pm
Can’t remember where I saw it but they explained intra-league fixtures would only happen in 2 of the challenge cup groups where there are 3 URC teams in the group. For us it’s simple, we don’t play Edinburgh and play the other 4. They didn’t say how they were going to work the 3 URC team groups. But looking at it 1 URC team are going to have to play the other 2 in the group, so I think 1 will be paired with Newcastle and 1 will be paired with ‘Invitee 2’ for fixture scheduling. ------------- As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten |
Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 8:28pm
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The EPCR are now a joke, it has to be said. Do I need to expand? This competition is not really a competition, it's a series of exhibition matches with some random luck deciding who makes the KO rounds. It's so depressing how really bad the URC and EPCR have become. And as if by some magic coincidence, the income each club gets from competing in both those competitions has dropped by £1m/yr since pre-covid levels. Despite the best efforts of JayZ's ROC nation ------------- We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh |
Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 22 June 2023 at 9:41pm
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Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 23 June 2023 at 12:34am
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The state of rugby should scream at EPCR that things need to change ASAP. My preferred solution is for 3 competitions of 16 teams. 4 groups of 4, H&A round robin, Top 2 qualify for knockouts, Bonus! 3rd & 4th progress to Plate knockouts. 3 comps x 16 teams = 48 teams 16 URC, 14 FFR, 10 ENG, 8 tier 2 nations teams(GEO, POR, ROM, SPA etc) Qualifying ECC 1 Current Champions qualify and earn extra space for their league Top 5(6) URC/PREM/TOP14 Current ECC 1 Plate winners take one of their leagues spots if not already qualified Current ECC 2 Champions take one of their leagues spots if not already qualified ECC 2 Current ECC 2 Champions earn extra space for their league Next best 5(6) URC/PREM/TOP14 Current ECC 2 Plate winners take one of their leagues spots if not already qualified Current ECC 3 Champions Qualify/take one of their leagues spots if not already qualified ECC 3 Remaining teams URC/PREM/TOP14 Top 8 European teams - New annual Qualifying Tournament(first season only) - Current bottom 4 EU teams re-enter tournament for following season (2nd season onwards) The Plate competitions are added because of the difficulty to qualify and to get everyone a taste of knockout rugby and a chance of silverware, especially the new EU teams. The basics are simple enough No cross table guessing for qualifying Plate competitions stop dead rubbers in the last group round, which has historically been an issue Adding the other nations in and giving them ways into higher competition and then staying there is obviously great for developing nations Is this too difficult to understand? ------------- As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten |
Posted By: cymraes
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 12:21pm
| So it's Tiblisi. No direct flights from UK. Perhaps Scarlets could charter plane with room for fans? |
Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 12:40pm
We might not be playing them away.
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Posted By: cymraes
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 12:44pm
| True but fancy a trip there! |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 2:11pm
 ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 2:40pm
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No visas needed for Georgia for UK passport holders, apparently. They’re 4 hours ahead of the UK. Stansted, change in Turkey, might be a flight option with Pegasus or Turkish. Lufthansa also has plenty of options via Frankfurt and/or Munich. Seems like arrive in the early hours of the morning. Return journey is leave early in the morning and back early afternoon. Not a trip for the faint hearted. Likely to be very enjoyable once there. No idea on the hotels. One hotel advert had very cheap overnight rate. Very much hope for a club trip with added room for fans.
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Tov
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 3:30pm
| Tbilisi is supposedly a lovely place. I've not been there but my wife lived there for a few years and wants us to move there. You must try the khachapuri. |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 4:37pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 7:00pm
| Black Lion will be formidable opponents for anyone. |
Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 7:09pm
All of the above! It’s a bread with cheese, and an egg on top. Comes over piping hot and you stir the egg, butter, and cheese all together until it forms a cheese mixture, then rip the bread apart and dip in cheese. Fantastic stuff.
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Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 7:29pm
Beer or wine with that? ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 7:31pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 7:35pm
Pick Castres or Clermont instead ------------- We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 7:52pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 8:30pm
Transit from Cardiff via Amsterdam to Tbilisi on KLM. |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 8:40pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 8:46pm
Either is good, think I did a Georgian wine last time. There was an excellent Georgian restaurant in NYC before COVID hit.
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Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 06 July 2023 at 8:47pm
Yes. Georgian Airways used to fly to London, not sure if they still do post pandemic. It’s a days travel either end but fascinating just the same. Black Lion are basically a feeder club to the French D1/2 and the Georgian national team. |
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 9:14am
Tbilisi in winter should be very interesting. 
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Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 9:15am
Perhaps we could go shopping there for a tight head ?
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Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 9:26am
If you want a tight head half a bottle of Georgian Vodka should get you one of those!!😉
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Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 10:41am
| The Cheetahs ‘home’ games are in Amsterdam. Now there’s a trip. |
Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 10:47am
Yes man. Zzzzzzzzzzzzz  I'll get the midnight express over.
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Posted By: EMGM
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 11:15am
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Really...such good rugby history there.
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Posted By: tannerbankboy
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 11:27am
Fingers, it's a bread dish filled with cheese and eggs. Georgian wine also has a good reputation as well. Getting there appears the only downside.
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Posted By: scarletabroad
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 11:42am
Until recently I thought the same. Dutch age grade rugby is really taking off. They brought a team over to LLandovery last year good skill sets fit and big. Their national centre is based around Amsterdam (I think) |
Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 1:37pm
| Aye. Lyn the Lip is the Head coach these days. |
Posted By: tannerbankboy
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 2:19pm
https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/georgia/tbilisi/climate" rel="nofollow - Climate & Weather Averages in Tbilisi, Georgia (timeanddate.com) Not as bad as you'd think.
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Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 5:35pm
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Surely we could get a plane between us it might have propellers and four wings with a pilot in large goggles and white scarf but I’m up for it. ------------- She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood. |
Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 8:00pm
Good call. |
Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 07 July 2023 at 11:22pm
| Nice to see all these fan friendly fixtures in the current financial climate |
Posted By: scarletabroad
Date Posted: 08 July 2023 at 10:57am
Chicken run springs to mind |
Posted By: hoppy
Date Posted: 12 July 2023 at 9:11pm
| Fixtures to be announced tomorrow |
Posted By: scarletsrules
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 8:57am
| Fixtures are up on epc website already, we got Castres and Clermont away and Black Lion and Edinburgh home, gutted we are missing out on a game against Gloucester |
Posted By: scarletsrules
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 8:58am
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09/12/23 - Castres (A) - 16:15 15/12/23 - Black Lion (H) - 20:00 13/01/24 - Clermont (A) - 14:00 19/01/24 - Edinburgh (H) - 20:00 |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 9:27am
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Clermont Hotel booked with free cancellation so have something in the diary. Will need to think about how to get there. Would quite fancy another trip to Castres but it’s probably a bit tight timewise to do both. No one has mentioned why on earth we are playing Edinburgh when they are in our league and not playing Gloucester - different league and 2 hours away for a bumper crowd and big atmosphere. Has EPCR explained why they’ve gone against their rules? ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 9:58am
They haven't, this is taken from the announcement of the format & also the draw: The EPCR Challenge Cup will be competed for by 18 clubs with eight representatives from the URC, six from the TOP 14, two from the Premiership, plus two invited clubs which will be announced shortly. (See clubs below) The clubs will be drawn or allocated into three pools of six with two TOP 14 clubs in each pool. Clubs from the same URC Shield and from the Premiership, as well as the two invitees, will be kept apart during the draw. Clubs will play four different opponents home or away with same-league matches being kept to a minimum, and only impacting clubs from the URC. The four highest-ranked clubs from each of the pools will qualify for the knockout stage. |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 10:21am
Slightly weasel words from the organisers, as I’m not sure why we couldn’t have played Glos so keeping the same-league matches to zero for us. I am surprised about both French matches being away, although that’s much easier for fans than an expedition to Tbilisi, fun though I’m sure it would’ve been. The club will be pleased, no doubt. I’m sure the Gloucester faithful will embrace Tbilisi and its attractions. Hopefully, they’ll get quite a following to travel. On the TV front, any idea who FloRugby are? ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: minded
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 11:42am
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The last time that we played a European game in England that fans could attend was London Irish in January 2020 (Not including that Bath game as we had limited ticket availability due to covid restrictions). Awful fixtures again. Another season with no away trips for me then. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPnAh1r0V9YMx4LjUAXI1AUts5jgBck9u" rel="nofollow - Scarlets Tries of the Season 2009 - 2022 |
Posted By: Seagultaf
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 12:33pm
From a financial perspective, these are shockingly bad fixtures. Night time Friday kick offs against Georgian and Scottish teams, so very few traveling supporters and far from ideal for Scarlets supporters from the outlying areas also. Then two expensive trips to France for the team any any supporters to play the most attractive fixtures with sensible kick off times, which would have drawn good support had they been at home. I presume that the Welsh Regions are represented by the WRU on the Challenge Cup competition board? If so they are certainly not looking after the interests of their teams.
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Posted By: minded
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 12:36pm
------------- https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLPnAh1r0V9YMx4LjUAXI1AUts5jgBck9u" rel="nofollow - Scarlets Tries of the Season 2009 - 2022 |
Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 12:38pm
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Gutted was looking forward to Tiblisi. Clermont great trip but might go Castres this time ------------- She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood. |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 1:29pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: sreve19
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 5:31pm
| No direct flights from UK to either Castre or Clermont for that time of year? Or am I missing something |
Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 5:35pm
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For Castres, fly to Toulouse, and an hour or so's train journey from there. Flights are available from Bristol. No idea on Clermont.
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Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 6:10pm
Thankfully our home league games have excellent kick off times so no one can use the late kick off excuse there.
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Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 13 July 2023 at 8:12pm
True, but there’s only so much good Ko times will do when 8 of our 11 home games are on BBC/S4C. Cardiff (4 Nov, 17:15) Glasgow (30 Mar, 19:35) Ulster (11 May, 15:05) are the only home games behind a paywall. I’m hopeful of a good crowd for Ulster, last home game @Parc, No community games & 🤞good weather. ------------- As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten |
Posted By: Seagultaf
Date Posted: 14 July 2023 at 8:36am
Looking at the published fixtures 5 of the 10 home game are late (after 19.30) kick off times. The Scarlets have always had lower attendances for the late lick offs, as its less convenient for visiting fans and indeed Scarlets fans from the outer reaches of the region to attend, particularly with the poor public transport in West Wales. I accept that we cant have all games at 3.00pm on a Saturday afternoon, but half the home games with late kick offs will seriously dent the finances of the club, something the WRU should be doing everything they can to prevent.
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Posted By: Oracle
Date Posted: 14 July 2023 at 10:43am
| Why can't we allways have a 3pm Saturday , it's as rediculous as an irish side haveing all games on a Friday evening ...it will never happen 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 |
Posted By: insidehalf
Date Posted: 14 July 2023 at 11:39am
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Clermont, fly to Lyon then approx 3hr train journey to Clermont or fly to Paris and train down or train all the way via Eurostar and change in Paris. Obviously allowing for our annual struggles with strikes in France.
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Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 13 September 2023 at 6:31pm
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If it’s been previously announced, I’ve missed it. However, today i found out that the Champions Cup i being sponsored by Investec. Anyone know if this applies to the Challenge as well? ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 13 September 2023 at 9:43pm
I reckon not Steve. The branding seems to be "Investec Champions Cup" and "EPCR Challenge. Cup" ------------- We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 14 September 2023 at 6:21pm
Here’s hoping they find a suitable and deep-pocketed business. ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 15 September 2023 at 11:35am
I reckon £500 and a few bottles of red would have your branding on the cup Steve ------------- We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 15 September 2023 at 6:49pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 15 September 2023 at 9:46pm
Save that one for our shirt sponsor next season  ------------- We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 15 September 2023 at 10:03pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |