Scarlets at the world cup
Printed From: Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets
Category: RUGBY
Forum Name: SCARLETS GENERAL
Forum Description: Team News, Season Tickets, Next Match
URL: https://scarletfever.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47425
Printed Date: 03 December 2023 at 4:45am
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Topic: Scarlets at the world cup
Posted By: Scarlet Fantastic
Subject: Scarlets at the world cup
Date Posted: 20 August 2023 at 11:41am
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I'm sick and tired of our regions & specifically the Scarlets losing their players for huge chunks of the season. A world cup is a particularly trying time as the players miss weeks of the season's start. I'm becoming disillusioned with the Wales team. I'm also becoming sick & tired of Scarlets players being scape goated for poor Wales performances. Yesterday, Hardy's taken a load of stick when the pack were going backwards at a rate of knots & ruck ball was a mess. Tom Rogers & Jonny Williams have been criticised when slow ball allowed the South Africans to crowd the midfield. I suspect this World Cup will be a washout for Wales with a strong Fiji team threatening to cause a not so massive upset. With Scalets players taking flack for a poor team performance, our regions' squads being stripped due to WRU budget cuts & the Welsh lads suffering a potentially confidence hitting World Cup; a large part of me would like to see our boys (Scarlets) stay home & get a good pre season under their belt & a strong start to the campaign. I also think Gatland is past his sell by date. After the England game I noticed in a post match interview a Welsh player saying they're under instruction not to make mistakes, stick to the game plan at the cost of personal flair. Sounds like Gatland wants robots as opposed to creative 'play whats in front of them' players. Sorry but I'd much rather see the Scarlets win than see a crap Welsh team play paint by numbers with a gameplan 10 years out of date. Sorry rant over & I hope all our Scarlets selected have a fantastic tournament. ------------- SF |
Replies:
Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 20 August 2023 at 12:13pm
I don’t think that you are alone there! Club before country these days.. how I have changed over the years!
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Scarlet Fantastic wrote:Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 20 August 2023 at 2:02pm
Couldn't agree more players don't look for space they run straight ahead with the defense taking the place of the tackle bag
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 August 2023 at 2:17pm
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Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 20 August 2023 at 2:29pm
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Like it or not, players are going to want to play for the national team - whether out of pride, or because they can earn more cash. So there is not much to be gained by moaning about that. We can for sure discuss the consequences for the Scarlets and other regions, and whether the compensation/funding from the WRU to the regions is adequate. It does not seem to be, since it is due to be cut with a number of players heading to France, Japan etc. Whether the national side is well coached or not is again a different discussion. Gatland has a good record and is no fool; is he past his sell-by date? I don't know, but I suspect not. Even if the RWC goes badly - and for sure it won't be a spectacular success - I think Wales will improve in the next 18 months. But we'll see. We have lost an awful lot of players to retirement and injuries, and don't have the playing numbers or depth of some other nations. Fear the worst, and hope for the best! ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:16pm
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Well that announcement provides a boost for the Scarlets. We'll get Matthias, Hardy, Rogers and Plumtree all back. Congrats to Sam and Johnny particularly for playing themselves onto the plane.
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Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:19pm
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And Joe of course... added to Ken and Josh when they recover. I know there aren't really games but will be good to have them available to train. Especially Plumtree who hasn't spent any time with them yet.
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Posted By: scarletabroad
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:33pm
| I’m chuffed selfishly that Plumtree didn’t make it but Tchizuna has been diabolical |
Posted By: Mr Ian
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:35pm
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congratulations to the Scarlets involved in rwc final group... the others will have their opportunities in next years to show their talent. Hope in a good spedition, but I m so worried about.
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Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:35pm
| Same about Plumtree. I agree that Tshuinza hasn't shown up much in the warm-up games BUT given how he starts for Exeter every week there has to be something major there. |
Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:35pm
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This is a massive result for us. If we can get Ken & Josh back in time for URC then we’re golden. Honestly only thought we’d get Rogers back so to have Mathias, Plumtree, Hardy & Roberts join him back home is brilliant. Can get excited for the BaaBaa’s and season kick off ------------- As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten |
Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:40pm
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Only two scrum halves or have I missed something? ------------- Keep the faith |
Posted By: Scarletstarch
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:48pm
I was thinking the same "greypower"!! ------------- "YMA O HYD" |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:49pm
I don't think so - Tshiunza has been anonymous; Plumtree had one very good cameo (despite some errors) and one half with more minus points than plusses. I think Plumtree will be great for the Scarlets, and maybe Wales - but he does lack experience, and it showed. So they chose the guy with more experience (see many other positions), and who can cover two positions - Tshiunza can play second row at a push, but don't think that is the case for Plumtree. Anyway, it should be a huge fillip for him to have got a cap and made the training squad - an incentive to improve with the Scarlets and show his worth. That's a good position to be in. ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 12:55pm
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From a Scarlets POV - vary many congratulations to those who made the squad: Costelow, Cawdor, Jonny W, and Ryan E. Commiserations to those who missed out - mainly as a result of inexperience (Gatland favours that when there are close calls to be made): Kemsley, Plumtree, Kieran, Joe Roberts, Tom Rogers. IMO, most of those have a very realistic chance of stepping up to the Wales squad for the 6N either this season or next - guys for the future. Kieran must have been in a very close call for one of the two slots. ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: locked out supertaf
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 1:22pm
Apparently Costellow is cover for 9....
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Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 1:29pm
I can see him playing there in an emergency - skilful player. ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: locked out supertaf
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 1:34pm
| And lets be honest, the 33 named wont be the 33 that finishes, its highly likely that even after game 1 we will need to call up replacements so while we are happy now, there will be 10-15 players on standby including several of hours I would wager. Fortunately I cant see Wales going far with that squad. |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 1:35pm
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Just seen this on the BBC: You have to feel for Taine Plumtree. He was all set to start pre-season with Scarlets this summer when he got a call out of the blue from Warren Gatland to join Wales on their training camp. His ability to play in the second-row and back-row would have made him a huge asset but injury at Twickenham has cost him. So it seems that Plumtree may have got picked ahead of Tshiunza but for the injury. Gatland has told him to be ready in case Wales need replacements during the tournament, so he may still make it... ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: Wasp
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 1:43pm
We have 3 decent warm up fixtures, Barbarians on 16th on 29th Sept. Dragons on 6th October (God knows why they're on Friday nights!). Then we have to take the squad to SA for the 1st 2 league games (Bulls then Stormers) This means we can do that with a decent level of preparation. I'm chuffed with that. ------------- We're still still here, but I wish we were in an Anglo-Welsh |
Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 3:15pm
| Yes sorry for the boys excluded but delighted that they will be back here preparing for the season. They have all had more caps and the 6 Nations is only around the corner for them. I’m hoping that the experience gained in camp will help push on Plumtree Rogers and Roberts in particular. Kieran looked flat but then the pack was being hammered so awful ball |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 3:25pm
------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 5:24pm
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Posted By: crj89
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 6:42pm
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What does it say about us as a club to only have 4 players representing Wales at the World Cup? We usually have 2/3/4 players on a lions tour, let alone Wales.
The lowest representation of any of the regions.
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Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 6:52pm
My concern as well. We seem to see too much of the “ managing the injury “ guff and it ends up in an operation! Plumtree has not even trained with his club and he’s been lucky enough to be capped. I hope the club does the right thing here for the club
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Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 7:13pm
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Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 7:37pm
Not sure the guys released by Wales will be available for the Baabaas game. |
Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 7:39pm
I know you edited this to show 'Wales'm but to me it's not a great stat when we also have Fifita and Lousi. No region has more than 6 (like us). |
Posted By: Boisbach
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 7:49pm
| With so many injuries these days, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if some of the Scarlets boys who haven’t made the 33 travel to France as injury replacements. |
Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 7:51pm
It’s what a sports person aims for in their career. To represent their country. It’s selfish to want to deny them that. Plus have you seen how much money they get? Open both eyes, a lot of players were criticised.
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Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 8:33pm
Sam is back up scrum half.
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Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 21 August 2023 at 10:27pm
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Apparently Hardy asked not to go if he wasn’t 1st or 2nd choice. Wanted to be home with his youngest after she was hospitalised, which I understand and respect if right. ------------- As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten |
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 6:36am
Thats a pretty negative way to look at things. As Wil has mentioned below we also have Sam & Fifita in the Tonga squad. We should also take into account that we would have had Ken in the squad barring an injury & with the current doubts about Faletau I also believe that Josh would have been taken instead of one of the 3 out and out 7's. Another stat which is a huge positive for me is that we also have a host of young guys who are probably the next in line in various positions - Hardy, Joe, Kemsley, Rogers & Taine. Time to celebrate our boys.
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Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 7:47am
| I think that’s right. We were also the development region for Gareth Thomas, Josh Adams, George North, Jac Morgan and Liam Williams. |
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 8:08am
Another fact which is very relevant is what are we comparing our "paltry" representation with? Of the 33 players selected 13 will not be playing their rugby in Wales if we assume Halfpenny will retire or go abroad. 4 from 20 is 20% which would be 25% with Ken's inclusion.
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Posted By: Gate12
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 8:28am
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There's also Javan with Scotland who was developed within the region. The amount of players in the squad not within Wales should be the concern, and with playing budget dropping further next season it's only likely to increase.
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 10:37am
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Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 10:38am
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Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 10:38am
| I'm a bit worried of the pressures on Sam's shoulders with Anscombe not 100% fit and also learning that he will be playing scrum half in the event of any non-urgent injuries to Williams or Cawdor. |
Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 10:41am
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Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 10:52am
Ken would’ve gone were it not for injury, and Halfpenny would still be our player if it weren’t for the WRU’s drastic drop in funding for next season. |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 1:54pm
I'm not. Costelow looks to me to be a guy filled with self-belief (a bit like Biggar) and so I doubt even a bad experience in a game will harm that. He's strong in the head (I think). ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 1:57pm
That's a good way to look at it: an awful lot of players who may well be 'the next taxi off the rank'. In terms of the Scarlet's upcoming season, I'd be more concerned about the short term (lack of fit and experienced players) than medium, where we have a lot of promise. ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: mr geraint
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 2:08pm
| Gatland told the BBC (rugby weekly podcast) that the Scarlets are going into the Wales camp for opposed sessions and a game. |
Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 2:56pm
My money is on us
------------- She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood. |
Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 3:19pm
My money is on us, picking up injuries  ------------- Keep the faith |
Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 4:35pm
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Scarlets camp in sunny Aberystwyth next week. Wales play us in a full contact game there. |
Posted By: Mugwuffin
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 6:04pm
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Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 9:02pm
My bad..it’s at the Vale |
Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 22 August 2023 at 10:04pm
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This duo Captain lark Gatty has come up with highlights he is losing his marbles. One Captain get a grip the old fart. Said so many times the Scarlets are no 1......not many return to their club that give them the privilege of playing for their country and give 120% To the club that gave them the platform. Yes there are those that break the mould but Llanelly was built on metal not clay. ------------- In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty" "All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us" |
Posted By: John
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 7:48am
That makes sense. Away from prying eyes. We should give a good account of ourselves. Fully loaded with players who have a point to prove. In a good way of course.
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Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 7:57am
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The guys omitted from the Wales squad aren’t playing in this one. There’s actually not too much in this for us ( other than a few of our guys catching Gatlands eye, pleasing the rugby gods, and maybe a few quid). |
Posted By: Seagultaf
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 10:39am
Not surprising that the players omitted from the final squad are not playing. If they were, I suspect there would be a few points to prove!
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Posted By: locked out supertaf
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 12:26pm
Is that Antoine d'you punt?
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Posted By: locked out supertaf
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 12:32pm
A colleague of mine who is usually quite in the know says that Plumtree is fit just not selected.
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Posted By: locked out supertaf
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 12:34pm
Slight irony though as normally we are moaning about losing so many players. From our angle, Id rather our players be tucked up at home.
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Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 12:45pm
| Joint captaincy. If Jac and Dewi are playing in the same match, whose decision is final? Suppose Wales have a penalty 35m out and Jac wants to go for the corner and Dewi wants to take the 3 points or vice-versa. Do we put it to a vote? |
Posted By: GPR - Rochester
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 1:06pm
With Dewi's throwing he'll take the points every time.
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Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 3:11pm
| I got the impression from the press conference that Jac would have final say if it came down to it. Just my reading of it though. |
Posted By: NobbySosban
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 3:33pm
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There'll be one named captain on match day - no confusion there. Dewi (or 'Dowey', as the English press have decided to call him, despite him telling them how he says it
 ) is the more vocal/shouty/sweary, while Jac is the 'lead by example' skipper, as shown against England in Cardiff. They've taken turns to captain previously for Wales age grade sides, and they work well together, but I expect Mogs to become the default captain before too long. |
Posted By: Why
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 3:48pm
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As a hooker Lake is struggling to get a game, as a rugby player however he is very good and hard not to pick. ------------- She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood. |
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 8:22pm
“Right foot or left, I don’t mind” ------------- In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind. |
Posted By: Dai Guevara
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 10:12pm
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Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 23 August 2023 at 10:33pm
That's an interesting one Dai. ! I am old enough to remember wings throwing in at the line out at Stradey. Also remember Cardiff prop, Andrew Lewis, taking over the throwing in at line out time, in some games for Wales. For me , it doesn't come in to the equation, even though I agree Lake is a good player, but its just that Ryan Elias is a better, more experienced tight forward. This is EXACTLY what we need to beat Fiji, players tight controlled pressure game, with our forwards really attempting to exert some set piece dominance. Ryan's throwing in is not the best, but its better than Lake's ------------- I stood yer on tanner bank |
Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 25 August 2023 at 2:32pm
Well, quite. It's amazing how little innovation we get in the game nowadays. I understand why they changed from wings throwing in, though - it's so they can join in back moves once the ball has been secured - especially in the opposition half. But it's clear to me that the hookers are not always very talented at throwing in. Why not just get (in practice) an idea of which forwards are the best ball-players and most accurate throwers, and then practise with those? It could be 1, 2, 3, 6, 7 or 8 - who cares, unless it's also one of the best jumpers - in which case you make a judgement call. I'm fed up that afaik no-one has tried this. It's about time. ------------- “You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift) |
Posted By: locked out supertaf
Date Posted: 25 August 2023 at 4:09pm
Probably dont want the public to see Wales lose again
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Posted By: locked out supertaf
Date Posted: 25 August 2023 at 4:21pm
I think Lake is definitely the man going forward, has all the attributes just needs to sort out the line out and his fitness but hes a great prospect.
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Posted By: Tony Clifton
Date Posted: 26 August 2023 at 12:59am
| Fifita and Lousi are better than any blindsides/locks in the Wales squad. Wish they had “other” red jersey! |
Posted By: Mr Lee91
Date Posted: 26 August 2023 at 3:55am
100% with you, but I’m a bit more rigid with only a front rower throwing in. I’m also of the opinion that props only lift from the front but that’s for a different debate on a different day. ------------- As long as you win it once, you'll never be forgotten |