This is the kind of idea that in theory shoud help reduce accidents but in reaity it may make things worse

Around scarlets its 40mph to the lights at pemberton then turn right or left and its immediately down to 20 ..........Bryn bynea llwynhendy al 20mph I think dafen foel stradey areas not clearly marked its confusing

I drove around town a lot last few days and it is chaos and confusion

unmarked speed limits some roads are 20 then 40 then 20 in the space of a few yards

theres already speed bumps and pot holes an wider pavements everywhere damaging cars. How is that making anyone safer? Surey the fact theyve abandoned road improvements and relief roads, pus the endless stop starting with speed bumps pot hotes and now the confusion over the 20mph zones create this congestion will increase pollution too?

The feedback Ive had from talking to 100s of people is theyre all 100% against 20mph roads everywhere except all schools and hospitals. Everyone is scared and confused 1000s of decent drivers will lose their licenses and jobs. everyone thinks it is a cash cow for poiticians police and councils to squeeze more money out of working people. 

Its been implemented terribly.........I hope it actualy does save lives as the politicians claim but is there evidence of that? Tragically it may even cost more lives as confused drivers wil slam on their brakes and get rear ended. The least they MUST do is make it all much much clearer.

Amazon and other companies have aready said theyl increase charges to west wales

time for deliveries of medica supplies, food, emergencies such as taking people to hospital as ambuances are unavailable m late for school, congestion more pollution, late for appointments work way less productivity

Lets hope the police are as vigilant in catching and imprisoning car thieves and those with no licenses as I know from painful experience when I had a car stolen few yrs ago the police did absolutely nothing despite a ton of evidence including camera footage inside the car, finger prints, tracker reports, umpteen eye witnesses etc etc 

 

hard to disagree with that

both parties are shameful 

1. It is not a blanket 20mph - councils can vary it and have a higher limit in places they think it makes sense. I daresay it will take time for those variations to be implemented in a tidy way, but the problem is not insurmountable.

2. Will it save lives? Yes - I have seen A&E surgeons say so - and especially of children who are more likely to be killed as pedestrians, since they are shorter and their vital organs are more likely to get hit by cars.

3. Will it cut pollution? Yes.

4. To the personal example regarding safety - there is a long, steep hill leading into Aberystwyth from the north - Penglais hill. Just before the town starts, there is a 40mph limit which is already a bit generous IMO, since just after a bend you get a crossroads at the top of the hill with commuters joining from the minor road on the right, and more form the left... plus, many parents are turning right across the road to deliver their kids to Penglais school in the morning. 

Further down, another major junction with the university campus on the left - but with commuting students and staff coming up the hill and turning right across the road.

At around the point where 40mph becomes 30mph, another double junction on the left - the second is more important as it is for the national Library of Wales, and staff must turn right across the traffic to get to work if coming out from town.

Just after the 30 mph limit starts - the hospital car park on the left, so cars from town must again turn right across the flow; there is an exit from the car park another 20m further on, and another road into my part of town another 20m after that! Doing a right turn here is really stressful, as many drivers DO NOT stick to even 30mph but are doing much more... and some/many idiots who have a bit of a gap in front, instead of allowing a turn to be made actually accelerate to close any gaps! After all that pointless speed, the traffic slows to a crawl as the jam backs up from Coopers corner... so nothing gained. 

This is why driving too fast in town is so annoying - not only is it dangerous, but it doesn't gain any significant amount of time.

As for the centre - you'd be lucky to do 20mph there most of the day. It's not possible.

Will take some getting used to as lots of people drive round Milford at more than 30.

Speed bumps pot holes 20 mph congestion m scrapping road improvements and relief roads and endless changes of speed often on the time strip of road will combined increase polution. Not just exhaust fumes but tyre polution from the endless stop start

Surey most intelligent countries target the dangerous roads and thats where they put 20 mph zones

Newer cars cut out plus there’ll be more electric cars. It’ll all level out in the end. 

Speed bumps pot holes 20 mph congestion m scrapping road improvements and relief roads and endless changes of speed often on the time strip of road will combined increase polution. Not just exhaust fumes but tyre polution from the endless stop start

Surey most intelligent countries target the dangerous roads and thats where they put 20 mph zones

They have targeted the most dangerous roads. Statistically the 30mph zones are by far the worst. 

 

Speed bumps pot holes 20 mph congestion m scrapping road improvements and relief roads and endless changes of speed often on the time strip of road will combined increase polution. Not just exhaust fumes but tyre polution from the endless stop start

Surey most intelligent countries target the dangerous roads and thats where they put 20 mph zones

They have targeted the most dangerous roads. Statistically the 30mph zones are by far the worst. 

 

It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas

The whole world going electric is a fantasy , not only are they way less reliable far more expensive , thousands of charging ports , you have lithium wars lithium mines lithium burials 

The carbon footprint is way underestimated too

Millions using the grid will lead to power cuts

This Draconian one size fits all no flexibility will lead to calamity

The roads will be strewn with broken down cars too

Hybrid cars were never given enough chance their footprint isn't much more and they're reliable and avoid all of these problems too

They are not. See table. 

Its such a mess out there people slamming on brakes confused as to whether its 20 or 30 mph guaranteed to create more accidents

Of course it will! That's a stupid bet to take. No-one's arguing that it won't change THOSE particular stats on THAT graph. 

But what it WILL change is that a car travelling at 20mph will kill and injure less people than a car travelling at 30mph! And because a large percentage of roads will change (35% I believe?) to 20mph that will reduce total casualties overall.

I'm sure a lot of people asked for this. The people on that table for a start!

Respectfully, if you have a problem with the legitimate research of a 1000 people, I have a problem with you canvassing your mates' opinions.

 (all of the research (full reports), along with a shed load of other documents pertaining to this change, can be found extremely easily on the Welsh gov site btw).

Also, it's a default speed limit. They'll be signs saying if you can go 30mph. I'm sure people will figure that out. 

Maybe a case to ban them from 20 mph zones.

Of course it will! That's a stupid bet to take. No-one's arguing that it won't change THOSE particular stats on THAT graph. 

But what it WILL change is that a car travelling at 20mph will kill and injure less people than a car travelling at 30mph! And because a large percentage of roads will change (35% I believe?) to 20mph that will reduce total casualties overall.

Nonsense

The signs are a mess loads of roads which are meant to be 20 are sign posted 30 

Online polls show 87% are against it and 130,000 have signed a petition to scrap this cash cow

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/welsh-government-no-plans-revisit-27740942" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/welsh-government-no-plans-revisit-27740942

Meanwhile if the oliticians are that concenred with road safety why dont they fix the pot holes and reduce the speed bumps which damage cars and make cars more dangerous?

It will obviously pollute much more too the endless stop start the endless speed bumps always in the lower gears and the massive tyre pollution from endless stop start

This is lunacy

The trouble with this one size fits all radical draconian ruling is it shows no flexibility for all the variables .....deliveries of criticial sulies whether it be medical , machinery, food etc massively damaging the economy , people late for hospital appointments , operations, workm school, ambulances late etc

Lest we forget its nigh on impossible to get an ambulance now so people are driving emergency patients to hospital but only at 20mph where every second counts that too will cost lives

Of course it will! That's a stupid bet to take. No-one's arguing that it won't change THOSE particular stats on THAT graph. 

But what it WILL change is that a car travelling at 20mph will kill and injure less people than a car travelling at 30mph! And because a large percentage of roads will change (35% I believe?) to 20mph that will reduce total casualties overall.

I know for a fact the police for whatever reason often do not prosecute uninsured car thieves / drinkers etc As I stated previously 2 cars stolen a few years ago, the police were given everything they could possibly need cctv footage, tracker reports, umpteen witnessesm even the finger prints matched and the man walked free?

I’d love to hear why you think there’d be more fatalities on a 20mph road. 

Hilarious seeing the loonies signing a petition as if they’re gonna revert back to 30mph. 

My wife and I WALK in and around Llanelli quite a lot.

We also live in an existing 20mph (limit PRIOR to the new limits coming in to effect on Sunday).

Do people stick to the limits..do they hell !

I walked Llanelli today and saw people speeding around.

The police are not going to do anything , so as we live in a "free for all " society, people do what they want.

Nothing will change.

Historically,  it was Barbara Castle , then minister of Transport(1965-68), who brought  in restrictions.

In Feb. 1966 Castle addressed Parliament , calling for profound change in public attitudes" to curtail increasing road fatality figures, stating "Hitler did did not manage to kill as many civilians in Britain's have have been killed on the roads ,since the war". The statistics bore out; between 1945 and the mid 1960's 150,00 were killed and several million injured on Britain's roads.

The situation is 100 times worse now, with more and more cars on the road.

According to various road safety organisations including the AA & RAC, many local authorities representing 28 million people in the UK have declared the national 30mph limit as no longer fit for purpose for most of their urban and village streets and replaced it with 20mph limits.

Another interesting statistic, research unveiled  at the recent COP26 climate conference, revealed that a 20mph can reduce Co2 and people harming NOx by more than 25%.

With transport representing 27% of the total carbon emissions in the UK, then reducing it by a quarter, is a substantive measure that can easily taken to reduce climate warming

"Brake", the road safety charity, reported that every 16 minutes someone is killed or seriously injured on UK roads. In total 1,6008 were killed in 2021, with deaths up 20% on 2020.

The police recorded that 30% of deaths were attributed to drivers exceeding the speed limit.

Last year a motorcyclist was very seriously injured turning right in to Walters rd towards Bigyn hill.

Dreadful parking meant that visibility was partly obscured, but what caused the severity of the collision, was the car travelling down Walters rd at speed. This led to the 20mph being introduced.

I also saw a pensioner being knocked over at the crossing, from pottery street to Asda in Llanelli, simply because the car was going to fast to stop quickly. The poor woman suffered a cardiac arrest, and despite our best efforts, died in the ambulance before it could get to Glangwili

As I understand it there is no "blanket ban" and local authorities can administer a 30mph were  they think appropriate. There is no doubt however that 'technically' our streets are safer at 20mph, but as I stated in my opening intro..it will make little difference as people still do as they like.

Cars are 'Gods' in todays world are we are  afraid not attempt to step on the motorists shoes.

Back in Barbara Castle's day, she introduced the 70mph on motorways, and met the same outrage as the people who signed the recent petition. 

The metaphorical comparison, of course is of a blinkered dray horse plodding on blissful unaware of what is going on around it.

Until it affects them , specifically, if their child or elderly parent was killed or badly injured in a collision, by someone driving too fast, people  will shake their fist in protest that their "freedoms " have been appallingly infringed upon.

We are living in a rootless society devoid of morality and conviction. People will even block disable person access with their car, as has happened to my elderly  neighbour on a few occasions. A complete lack of thought , consideration or compassion

To digress, the law, is a joke when it comes to  offending linked to driving at speed 

A man recently killed 3 people, after driving furiously being well over the limit, and received just a 17 month jail sentence. How can that be fair ?

I have said for a long time that depending on the severity of offence, lifetime driving bans should be introduced for drink drivers

The Tories in the Senydd are also to be condemned. Andrew T Davis what  a scumbag (and big Boris fan) he is. Initially there was cross party consensus initially, when the 20mph limit was proposed, and trialled in eight different locations , going back some time. Since then Davies and his rag tag bunch of toe rag Tories have sniffed out a political opportunity and are now banging the drum in opposition to 20mph, telling lies about blanket bans.

Yes, its the same Tories who opposed the setting up of the NHS, the introduction of the minimum wage, and even devolution itself , and yet there they are banging the drum.

To conclude on a almost comical note ,apart from the fact its deadly serious.

We have been debating on here about the 20mph limits.

One of the thing that has amazed me recently that with the proliferation of electric scooters, how long is going to be before someone gets killed or injured on these things?

I am not of course referring to vespers/mopeds, but the type of scooter that as a child you used to propel with your foot.

Most of these are operated by children around our streets , without a helmet, and are incredibly dangerous, both for themselves  and pedestrians.

How can parents be so irresponsible to allow this, but if (god forbid) an accident happened then there would be a fuss.

Its just another example of the Laissez-Faire attitudes which prevail today

whats the to speed on those scooters , do they wear helmets and do they use lights?

Pretty disrespectful calling 160,000 people loons but to be expected of you

The reasons for more accidents and confusion with the new speed limits and unmarked speed limits have been well documented in this thread and elsewhere you conveniently ignore the facts. The complete confusion over the wrong speed signs putting 30mph signs in 20mph roads ....Added to the endless speed bumps, pot holes , wide pavements, central islands, one way streets, part one way streets more and more road works extra traffic lights , extra congestion, more cameras, more pressure on the cops to police it all, roads you can only drive down at certain times of the day , cutbacks on maintenance and relief roads , Higher pollution with cars in lower gears and tyre pollution from the endless braking.....

DPFs diesel particulate filters endlessly clogged up thrugh the endless stop starting  Do you know how much it costs to clean or replace a DPF>?? £800 to clean , to replace brand new £2780 ??? How many can afford that? etc All puts yet more pressure and distraction on drivers on all their varies types of vehicles...Isnt it hard enough to drive big trucks and buses already without all this extra pressure and confusion ....End result will be more people quitting these jobs. far slower supply of goods , services, essential supplies, foods, medication, productivity down....a £4.5 billion hit to the welsh economy (These are welsh labours own estimations so itll probably be greater) . 

You conveniently choose to ignore all of this which makes your opinion n the matter worthless.

https://petitions.senedd.wales/signatures/2022812/signed" rel="nofollow - https://petitions.senedd.wales/signatures/2022812/signed

Petition has over 340,000 signatures now the biggest in Welsh history

drakefords response? we dont care were not relooking at it

ahh what a democrat he is 

Whatever the rules are, there will always be folk who ignore the rules and are inconsiderate to everyone else whether on the road or pavements. While none of those people read Fever, we probably can all come up with a few folk of this type.

The problem with that idea is that the majority of main roads are also residential roads.

Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.

I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.

He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.

if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.

As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.

Undoubtedly Apparently only 1 in 10 drug dealers ges to jail

I havent double checked that but clearly the war on drugs never happened and our status quo policy of the govt providing the drugs and the police turning a blind eye to it all, is now set in stone and goes unquestioned by politicians and councillors

Apparently accepting its incurable unavoidable genetic disease is the only way to go and is termed compassionate. The idea of self control or helping to proactively dissuade people from this path in the first place is scoffed at by the so called experts. Is that compassinate? Funny Ive not seen them display the same compassion to communities ravaged and destroyed by drug dealers 

I have not seen these scooters on display Roy, but they must ge available somewhere. RIDICULOUS. 

Another thing, many if the roadside curbs in and around  Central Llanelli,  are non existent.  I live next to just one fine example , and a fairly busy road.

Complained to counci, nothing done..presumably  no money .

Any limited protection,  you would get from a curg is negated.

We have two primary  schools and a secondary  school on our doorstep, and children  are regularly  walking home.

They would have no chance if a scooter mounted the pavement .

My wife has a f8rm of early onset dementia,  and ,bye way things are, I am always with her when we go out, because even though it can be quiet at times, it only raies a second of madness to witness an unfortunate  and potentially  danger accident. 

Spoke to police ahd they confirmed   children shouldn't be using them.

So where are their parents of tyese children?

Absent without leave, until a tragedy  occurs.

It worries me.