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20 mph speed limits from 18 September 2023

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Topic: 20 mph speed limits from 18 September 2023
Posted By: Eastern outpost
Subject: 20 mph speed limits from 18 September 2023
Date Posted: 17 September 2023 at 10:41am
How is the journey to y Parc affected by the new limits? Are the main routes unaffected and it’s the side streets?

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.



Replies:
Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 17 September 2023 at 3:52pm
This is the kind of idea that in theory shoud help reduce accidents but in reaity it may make things worse

Around scarlets its 40mph to the lights at pemberton then turn right or left and its immediately down to 20 ..........Bryn bynea llwynhendy al 20mph I think dafen foel stradey areas not clearly marked its confusing

The welsh governments own report says it will damage the welsh economy by over £4.5 billion
I drove around town a lot last few days and it is chaos and confusion
unmarked speed limits some roads are 20 then 40 then 20 in the space of a few yards
theres already speed bumps and pot holes an wider pavements everywhere damaging cars. How is that making anyone safer? Surey the fact theyve abandoned road improvements and relief roads, pus the endless stop starting with speed bumps pot hotes and now the confusion over the 20mph zones create this congestion will increase pollution too?

The feedback Ive had from talking to 100s of people is theyre all 100% against 20mph roads everywhere except all schools and hospitals. Everyone is scared and confused 1000s of decent drivers will lose their licenses and jobs. everyone thinks it is a cash cow for poiticians police and councils to squeeze more money out of working people. 

Its been implemented terribly.........I hope it actualy does save lives as the politicians claim but is there evidence of that? Tragically it may even cost more lives as confused drivers wil slam on their brakes and get rear ended. The least they MUST do is make it all much much clearer.

Amazon and other companies have aready said theyl increase charges to west wales
time for deliveries of medica supplies, food, emergencies such as taking people to hospital as ambuances are unavailable m late for school, congestion more pollution, late for appointments work way less productivity

Lets hope the police are as vigilant in catching and imprisoning car thieves and those with no licenses as I know from painful experience when I had a car stolen few yrs ago the police did absolutely nothing despite a ton of evidence including camera footage inside the car, finger prints, tracker reports, umpteen eye witnesses etc etc 
 


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 17 September 2023 at 4:02pm
Everything in Wales is broken under labour in Wales and it's getting worse and i detest the Tories  the whole country is broken



Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 17 September 2023 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Everything in Wales is broken under labour in Wales and it's getting worse and i detest the Tories  the whole country is broken


hard to disagree with that
both parties are shameful 


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Winston
Date Posted: 17 September 2023 at 7:22pm
Wasn’t a good journey from Ross to PYS with the usual Newport snarl up on the M4. But the M4 closed for roadworks on the way back so detoured Merthyr and Abergavenny.   Absolute nightmare.  Can you believe the main artery road closed during the daytime. Don’t they work overnight in Wales 


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 17 September 2023 at 9:20pm
It’s hard to keep to 20 mph isn’t it but I guess that if it ends up saving lives - perhaps even a family member or friend- I will be happy. We just need to give it a go.It’s being reviewed in a year isn’t it? Also councils can apply for changes and exceptions if changes are needed and hope they do this when sensible to do so. It’s not the end of the world tbf. 


Posted By: aber-fan
Date Posted: 18 September 2023 at 8:37am
Some points about this new 20mph limit in town centres - which I favour:

1. It is not a blanket 20mph - councils can vary it and have a higher limit in places they think it makes sense. I daresay it will take time for those variations to be implemented in a tidy way, but the problem is not insurmountable.

2. Will it save lives? Yes - I have seen A&E surgeons say so - and especially of children who are more likely to be killed as pedestrians, since they are shorter and their vital organs are more likely to get hit by cars.

3. Will it cut pollution? Yes.

4. To the personal example regarding safety - there is a long, steep hill leading into Aberystwyth from the north - Penglais hill. Just before the town starts, there is a 40mph limit which is already a bit generous IMO, since just after a bend you get a crossroads at the top of the hill with commuters joining from the minor road on the right, and more form the left... plus, many parents are turning right across the road to deliver their kids to Penglais school in the morning. 

Further down, another major junction with the university campus on the left - but with commuting students and staff coming up the hill and turning right across the road.

At around the point where 40mph becomes 30mph, another double junction on the left - the second is more important as it is for the national Library of Wales, and staff must turn right across the traffic to get to work if coming out from town.

Just after the 30 mph limit starts - the hospital car park on the left, so cars from town must again turn right across the flow; there is an exit from the car park another 20m further on, and another road into my part of town another 20m after that! Doing a right turn here is really stressful, as many drivers DO NOT stick to even 30mph but are doing much more... and some/many idiots who have a bit of a gap in front, instead of allowing a turn to be made actually accelerate to close any gaps! After all that pointless speed, the traffic slows to a crawl as the jam backs up from Coopers corner... so nothing gained. 

This is why driving too fast in town is so annoying - not only is it dangerous, but it doesn't gain any significant amount of time.

As for the centre - you'd be lucky to do 20mph there most of the day. It's not possible.


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“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 18 September 2023 at 8:41am
Hopped in the car this morning & there were many people driving at 30 then realising they should be doing 20! 

Will take some getting used to as lots of people drive round Milford at more than 30.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 18 September 2023 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Some points about this new 20mph limit in town centres - which I favour:

1. It is not a blanket 20mph - councils can vary it and have a higher limit in places they think it makes sense. I daresay it will take time for those variations to be implemented in a tidy way, but the problem is not insurmountable.

2. Will it save lives? Yes - I have seen A&E surgeons say so - and especially of children who are more likely to be killed as pedestrians, since they are shorter and their vital organs are more likely to get hit by cars.

3. Will it cut pollution? Yes.

4. To the personal example regarding safety - there is a long, steep hill leading into Aberystwyth from the north - Penglais hill. Just before the town starts, there is a 40mph limit which is already a bit generous IMO, since just after a bend you get a crossroads at the top of the hill with commuters joining from the minor road on the right, and more form the left... plus, many parents are turning right across the road to deliver their kids to Penglais school in the morning. 

Further down, another major junction with the university campus on the left - but with commuting students and staff coming up the hill and turning right across the road.

At around the point where 40mph becomes 30mph, another double junction on the left - the second is more important as it is for the national Library of Wales, and staff must turn right across the traffic to get to work if coming out from town.

Just after the 30 mph limit starts - the hospital car park on the left, so cars from town must again turn right across the flow; there is an exit from the car park another 20m further on, and another road into my part of town another 20m after that! Doing a right turn here is really stressful, as many drivers DO NOT stick to even 30mph but are doing much more... and some/many idiots who have a bit of a gap in front, instead of allowing a turn to be made actually accelerate to close any gaps! After all that pointless speed, the traffic slows to a crawl as the jam backs up from Coopers corner... so nothing gained. 

This is why driving too fast in town is so annoying - not only is it dangerous, but it doesn't gain any significant amount of time.

As for the centre - you'd be lucky to do 20mph there most of the day. It's not possible.

Speed bumps pot holes 20 mph congestion m scrapping road improvements and relief roads and endless changes of speed often on the time strip of road will combined increase polution. Not just exhaust fumes but tyre polution from the endless stop start

Surey most intelligent countries target the dangerous roads and thats where they put 20 mph zones



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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 18 September 2023 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Some points about this new 20mph limit in town centres - which I favour:

1. It is not a blanket 20mph - councils can vary it and have a higher limit in places they think it makes sense. I daresay it will take time for those variations to be implemented in a tidy way, but the problem is not insurmountable.

2. Will it save lives? Yes - I have seen A&E surgeons say so - and especially of children who are more likely to be killed as pedestrians, since they are shorter and their vital organs are more likely to get hit by cars.

3. Will it cut pollution? Yes.

4. To the personal example regarding safety - there is a long, steep hill leading into Aberystwyth from the north - Penglais hill. Just before the town starts, there is a 40mph limit which is already a bit generous IMO, since just after a bend you get a crossroads at the top of the hill with commuters joining from the minor road on the right, and more form the left... plus, many parents are turning right across the road to deliver their kids to Penglais school in the morning. 

Further down, another major junction with the university campus on the left - but with commuting students and staff coming up the hill and turning right across the road.

At around the point where 40mph becomes 30mph, another double junction on the left - the second is more important as it is for the national Library of Wales, and staff must turn right across the traffic to get to work if coming out from town.

Just after the 30 mph limit starts - the hospital car park on the left, so cars from town must again turn right across the flow; there is an exit from the car park another 20m further on, and another road into my part of town another 20m after that! Doing a right turn here is really stressful, as many drivers DO NOT stick to even 30mph but are doing much more... and some/many idiots who have a bit of a gap in front, instead of allowing a turn to be made actually accelerate to close any gaps! After all that pointless speed, the traffic slows to a crawl as the jam backs up from Coopers corner... so nothing gained. 

This is why driving too fast in town is so annoying - not only is it dangerous, but it doesn't gain any significant amount of time.

As for the centre - you'd be lucky to do 20mph there most of the day. It's not possible.
how will loads of vehcles being stuck in endless traffic jams cut pollution? It’s a load of hot air (pardon the pun)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 18 September 2023 at 7:05pm
The 20 mph hr around schools is fine but otherwuse ir’s just daft. Same as this race to go to all electric cars. Wales contrubutes leds than 0.5 per cent of global green house gasses, if we all stopped driving in wales it would make no difference what so ever to global warning and drakeford and co shold be honest pn this and say so. 


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 18 September 2023 at 9:16pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Some points about this new 20mph limit in town centres - which I favour:

1. It is not a blanket 20mph - councils can vary it and have a higher limit in places they think it makes sense. I daresay it will take time for those variations to be implemented in a tidy way, but the problem is not insurmountable.

2. Will it save lives? Yes - I have seen A&E surgeons say so - and especially of children who are more likely to be killed as pedestrians, since they are shorter and their vital organs are more likely to get hit by cars.

3. Will it cut pollution? Yes.

4. To the personal example regarding safety - there is a long, steep hill leading into Aberystwyth from the north - Penglais hill. Just before the town starts, there is a 40mph limit which is already a bit generous IMO, since just after a bend you get a crossroads at the top of the hill with commuters joining from the minor road on the right, and more form the left... plus, many parents are turning right across the road to deliver their kids to Penglais school in the morning. 

Further down, another major junction with the university campus on the left - but with commuting students and staff coming up the hill and turning right across the road.

At around the point where 40mph becomes 30mph, another double junction on the left - the second is more important as it is for the national Library of Wales, and staff must turn right across the traffic to get to work if coming out from town.

Just after the 30 mph limit starts - the hospital car park on the left, so cars from town must again turn right across the flow; there is an exit from the car park another 20m further on, and another road into my part of town another 20m after that! Doing a right turn here is really stressful, as many drivers DO NOT stick to even 30mph but are doing much more... and some/many idiots who have a bit of a gap in front, instead of allowing a turn to be made actually accelerate to close any gaps! After all that pointless speed, the traffic slows to a crawl as the jam backs up from Coopers corner... so nothing gained. 

This is why driving too fast in town is so annoying - not only is it dangerous, but it doesn't gain any significant amount of time.

As for the centre - you'd be lucky to do 20mph there most of the day. It's not possible.
how will loads of vehcles being stuck in endless traffic jams cut pollution? It’s a load of hot air (pardon the pun)

Newer cars cut out plus there’ll be more electric cars. It’ll all level out in the end. 


Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 11:11am
As for the centre - you'd be lucky to do 20mph there most of the day. It's not possible.
[/QUOTE]

Speed bumps pot holes 20 mph congestion m scrapping road improvements and relief roads and endless changes of speed often on the time strip of road will combined increase polution. Not just exhaust fumes but tyre polution from the endless stop start

Surey most intelligent countries target the dangerous roads and thats where they put 20 mph zones

[/QUOTE]

They have targeted the most dangerous roads. Statistically the 30mph zones are by far the worst. 


 

The point about electric cars is valid. It IS hard to drive consistently at 20mph but it will be less so in electric and future vehicles... and all petrol and diesel are being phased out anyway. 


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 11:20am
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

As for the centre - you'd be lucky to do 20mph there most of the day. It's not possible.

Speed bumps pot holes 20 mph congestion m scrapping road improvements and relief roads and endless changes of speed often on the time strip of road will combined increase polution. Not just exhaust fumes but tyre polution from the endless stop start

Surey most intelligent countries target the dangerous roads and thats where they put 20 mph zones

[/QUOTE]

They have targeted the most dangerous roads. Statistically the 30mph zones are by far the worst. 


 

The point about electric cars is valid. It IS hard to drive consistently at 20mph but it will be less so in electric and future vehicles... and all petrol and diesel are being phased out anyway. 
[/QUOTE]

It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas
The whole world going electric is a fantasy , not only are they way less reliable far more expensive , thousands of charging ports , you have lithium wars lithium mines lithium burials 
The carbon footprint is way underestimated too
Millions using the grid will lead to power cuts
This Draconian one size fits all no flexibility will lead to calamity
The roads will be strewn with broken down cars too
Hybrid cars were never given enough chance their footprint isn't much more and they're reliable and avoid all of these problems too


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 11:21am
Out of curio how do 40 mph  roafs compare to 30 mph injury wise? ? If they are lower Maybe we should increase not reduce soeed! There are a lot more (well there were a lot more) 30 mph roads than 20 mph roads than 30 mph so it stands to reason there will be more fatalities on these roads. I dare say there are less pedestrians killed and injured on motor ways then there are on 20 mph and 30 mph roads? See how easy it is to bend  stats to your view point


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 11:23am
I have just discovered ( page 120 or whatever of my manual) that our 3 year old Skoda Kamiq has a speed limiter ! I had no idea and suspect many cars up to say 5-6 years old are the same. Dare I try it fiddle with it but is there any point as these 20 mph zones don’t last long? 🤔


Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 11:28am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio how do 40 moh roafs compare to 30 mph injury wise? ? If they are lower Maybe we should increase not reduce soeec


They are not. See table. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 11:45am
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio how do 40 moh roafs compare to 30 mph injury wise? ? If they are lower Maybe we should increase not reduce soeec


They are not. See table. 
so now many 20 mph roads were compared to 30 mpg when that table was completed? If a lot less then it’s hardly a shock there are lot less injuries? It’s just a numbers thing really


Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 12:17pm
"It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas" - Roy

Yes, of course it's built-up areas... that's the point. They are the dangerous roads for pedestrians, which this is predominantly aimed at protecting. Roads that don't really have pedestrians will be exempt. The limit is mostly to reduce pedestrian casualties... for you and RR, I don't know how you can look at those statistics and NOT see the amount of pedestrians hurt or killed on 30mph speed limit roads is VASTLY higher than any others.

I'm not raving about this change either, but the data does show that when you reduce speeds you reduce the impact of collisions and therefore reduce the most negative outcomes and it provide greater time for motorists to see pedestrians, and pedestrians to see motorists. 



Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

"It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas" - Roy

Yes, of course it's built-up areas... that's the point. They are the dangerous roads for pedestrians, which this is predominantly aimed at protecting. Roads that don't really have pedestrians will be exempt. The limit is mostly to reduce pedestrian casualties... for you and RR, I don't know how you can look at those statistics and NOT see the amount of pedestrians hurt or killed on 30mph speed limit roads is VASTLY higher than any others.

I'm not raving about this change either, but the data does show that when you reduce speeds you reduce the impact of collisions and therefore reduce the most negative outcomes and it provide greater time for motorists to see pedestrians, and pedestrians to see motorists. 

ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 1:38pm
No one asked for this

Its such a mess out there people slamming on brakes confused as to whether its 20 or 30 mph guaranteed to create more accidents
The so called poll drakeford did of 1000 people must have been skewed or biased as 99% of people Ive spoken to think this is comlete and utter madness and yet another cash cow for the WAG to squeeze out of struggling workers

This added to the insane WAG landlord laws is yet another nail in the coffin after brexit, covid, cost of living crisis are they out to destroy the working people?

Little wonder were one of the poorest countries in europe no doubt climbing to the top soon


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 2:51pm

[/QUOTE] ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time [/QUOTE]

Of course it will! That's a stupid bet to take. No-one's arguing that it won't change THOSE particular stats on THAT graph. 

But what it WILL change is that a car travelling at 20mph will kill and injure less people than a car travelling at 30mph! And because a large percentage of roads will change (35% I believe?) to 20mph that will reduce total casualties overall.




Posted By: Raised By Peregos
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

No one asked for this

Its such a mess out there people slamming on brakes confused as to whether its 20 or 30 mph guaranteed to create more accidents
The so called poll drakeford did of 1000 people must have been skewed or biased as 99% of people Ive spoken to think this is comlete and utter madness and yet another cash cow for the WAG to squeeze out of struggling workers

This added to the insane WAG landlord laws is yet another nail in the coffin after brexit, covid, cost of living crisis are they out to destroy the working people?

Little wonder were one of the poorest countries in europe no doubt climbing to the top soon

I'm sure a lot of people asked for this. The people on that table for a start!

Respectfully, if you have a problem with the legitimate research of a 1000 people, I have a problem with you canvassing your mates' opinions.

 (all of the research (full reports), along with a shed load of other documents pertaining to this change, can be found extremely easily on the Welsh gov site btw).

Also, it's a default speed limit. They'll be signs saying if you can go 30mph. I'm sure people will figure that out. 


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 3:07pm
Electric cars are 20% heavier than equivalent petrol/diesel cars so if they are involved in a collision they will cause more serious injuries to humans.
Maybe a case to ban them from 20 mph zones.Wink


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Keep the faith


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 3:07pm
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:


ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time [/QUOTE]

Of course it will! That's a stupid bet to take. No-one's arguing that it won't change THOSE particular stats on THAT graph. 

But what it WILL change is that a car travelling at 20mph will kill and injure less people than a car travelling at 30mph! And because a large percentage of roads will change (35% I believe?) to 20mph that will reduce total casualties overall.


[/QUOTE] up untill this rule next to no cars were travelling at 20 mph lets see how those stats carry on. Ill wager we have no less deaths in the next calendar year. Most fatalties are not caused by pepple going 30 mph but  people speeding and going well over the linit.  Often these folk are uninsured over the linit on drink or drugs if you think this new rule will stop them your very much mistaken


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

No one asked for this

Its such a mess out there people slamming on brakes confused as to whether its 20 or 30 mph guaranteed to create more accidents
The so called poll drakeford did of 1000 people must have been skewed or biased as 99% of people Ive spoken to think this is comlete and utter madness and yet another cash cow for the WAG to squeeze out of struggling workers

This added to the insane WAG landlord laws is yet another nail in the coffin after brexit, covid, cost of living crisis are they out to destroy the working people?

Little wonder were one of the poorest countries in europe no doubt climbing to the top soon

I'm sure a lot of people asked for this. The people on that table for a start!

Respectfully, if you have a problem with the legitimate research of a 1000 people, I have a problem with you canvassing your mates' opinions.

 (all of the research (full reports), along with a shed load of other documents pertaining to this change, can be found extremely easily on the Welsh gov site btw).

Also, it's a default speed limit. They'll be signs saying if you can go 30mph. I'm sure people will figure that out. 

Nonsense
The signs are a mess loads of roads which are meant to be 20 are sign posted 30 
Online polls show 87% are against it and 130,000 have signed a petition to scrap this cash cow
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/welsh-government-no-plans-revisit-27740942" rel="nofollow - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/politics/welsh-government-no-plans-revisit-27740942

Meanwhile if the oliticians are that concenred with road safety why dont they fix the pot holes and reduce the speed bumps which damage cars and make cars more dangerous?
It will obviously pollute much more too the endless stop start the endless speed bumps always in the lower gears and the massive tyre pollution from endless stop start
This is lunacy

The trouble with this one size fits all radical draconian ruling is it shows no flexibility for all the variables .....deliveries of criticial sulies whether it be medical , machinery, food etc massively damaging the economy , people late for hospital appointments , operations, workm school, ambulances late etc

Lest we forget its nigh on impossible to get an ambulance now so people are driving emergency patients to hospital but only at 20mph where every second counts that too will cost lives


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 5:20pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:


ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time

Of course it will! That's a stupid bet to take. No-one's arguing that it won't change THOSE particular stats on THAT graph. 

But what it WILL change is that a car travelling at 20mph will kill and injure less people than a car travelling at 30mph! And because a large percentage of roads will change (35% I believe?) to 20mph that will reduce total casualties overall.


[/QUOTE] up untill this rule next to no cars were travelling at 20 mph lets see how those stats carry on. Ill wager we have no less deaths in the next calendar year. Most fatalties are not caused by pepple going 30 mph but  people speeding and going well over the linit.  Often these folk are uninsured over the linit on drink or drugs if you think this new rule will stop them your very much mistaken[/QUOTE]

I know for a fact the police for whatever reason often do not prosecute uninsured car thieves / drinkers etc As I stated previously 2 cars stolen a few years ago, the police were given everything they could possibly need cctv footage, tracker reports, umpteen witnessesm even the finger prints matched and the man walked free?


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 19 September 2023 at 9:38pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

"It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas" - Roy

Yes, of course it's built-up areas... that's the point. They are the dangerous roads for pedestrians, which this is predominantly aimed at protecting. Roads that don't really have pedestrians will be exempt. The limit is mostly to reduce pedestrian casualties... for you and RR, I don't know how you can look at those statistics and NOT see the amount of pedestrians hurt or killed on 30mph speed limit roads is VASTLY higher than any others.

I'm not raving about this change either, but the data does show that when you reduce speeds you reduce the impact of collisions and therefore reduce the most negative outcomes and it provide greater time for motorists to see pedestrians, and pedestrians to see motorists. 

ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time

I’d love to hear why you think there’d be more fatalities on a 20mph road. 

Hilarious seeing the loonies signing a petition as if they’re gonna revert back to 30mph. 


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 3:39am
The hot air generated on this thread is laughable.LOL

My wife and I WALK in and around Llanelli quite a lot.
We also live in an existing 20mph (limit PRIOR to the new limits coming in to effect on Sunday).
Do people stick to the limits..do they hell !
I walked Llanelli today and saw people speeding around.
The police are not going to do anything , so as we live in a "free for all " society, people do what they want.
Nothing will change.

Historically,  it was Barbara Castle , then minister of Transport(1965-68), who brought  in restrictions.
In Feb. 1966 Castle addressed Parliament , calling for profound change in public attitudes" to curtail increasing road fatality figures, stating "Hitler did did not manage to kill as many civilians in Britain's have have been killed on the roads ,since the war". The statistics bore out; between 1945 and the mid 1960's 150,00 were killed and several million injured on Britain's roads.
The situation is 100 times worse now, with more and more cars on the road.

According to various road safety organisations including the AA & RAC, many local authorities representing 28 million people in the UK have declared the national 30mph limit as no longer fit for purpose for most of their urban and village streets and replaced it with 20mph limits.

Another interesting statistic, research unveiled  at the recent COP26 climate conference, revealed that a 20mph can reduce Co2 and people harming NOx by more than 25%.
With transport representing 27% of the total carbon emissions in the UK, then reducing it by a quarter, is a substantive measure that can easily taken to reduce climate warming

"Brake", the road safety charity, reported that every 16 minutes someone is killed or seriously injured on UK roads. In total 1,6008 were killed in 2021, with deaths up 20% on 2020.
The police recorded that 30% of deaths were attributed to drivers exceeding the speed limit.

Last year a motorcyclist was very seriously injured turning right in to Walters rd towards Bigyn hill.
Dreadful parking meant that visibility was partly obscured, but what caused the severity of the collision, was the car travelling down Walters rd at speed. This led to the 20mph being introduced.
I also saw a pensioner being knocked over at the crossing, from pottery street to Asda in Llanelli, simply because the car was going to fast to stop quickly. The poor woman suffered a cardiac arrest, and despite our best efforts, died in the ambulance before it could get to Glangwili

As I understand it there is no "blanket ban" and local authorities can administer a 30mph were  they think appropriate. There is no doubt however that 'technically' our streets are safer at 20mph, but as I stated in my opening intro..it will make little difference as people still do as they like.

Cars are 'Gods' in todays world are we are  afraid not attempt to step on the motorists shoes.
Back in Barbara Castle's day, she introduced the 70mph on motorways, and met the same outrage as the people who signed the recent petition. 
The metaphorical comparison, of course is of a blinkered dray horse plodding on blissful unaware of what is going on around it.
Until it affects them , specifically, if their child or elderly parent was killed or badly injured in a collision, by someone driving too fast, people  will shake their fist in protest that their "freedoms " have been appallingly infringed upon.
We are living in a rootless society devoid of morality and conviction. People will even block disable person access with their car, as has happened to my elderly  neighbour on a few occasions. A complete lack of thought , consideration or compassion

To digress, the law, is a joke when it comes to  offending linked to driving at speed 
A man recently killed 3 people, after driving furiously being well over the limit, and received just a 17 month jail sentence. How can that be fair ?
I have said for a long time that depending on the severity of offence, lifetime driving bans should be introduced for drink drivers

The Tories in the Senydd are also to be condemned. Andrew T Davis what  a scumbag (and big Boris fan) he is. Initially there was cross party consensus initially, when the 20mph limit was proposed, and trialled in eight different locations , going back some time. Since then Davies and his rag tag bunch of toe rag Tories have sniffed out a political opportunity and are now banging the drum in opposition to 20mph, telling lies about blanket bans.
Yes, its the same Tories who opposed the setting up of the NHS, the introduction of the minimum wage, and even devolution itself , and yet there they are banging the drum.

To conclude on a almost comical note ,apart from the fact its deadly serious.
We have been debating on here about the 20mph limits.
One of the thing that has amazed me recently that with the proliferation of electric scooters, how long is going to be before someone gets killed or injured on these things?
I am not of course referring to vespers/mopeds, but the type of scooter that as a child you used to propel with your foot.
Most of these are operated by children around our streets , without a helmet, and are incredibly dangerous, both for themselves  and pedestrians.
How can parents be so irresponsible to allow this, but if (god forbid) an accident happened then there would be a fuss.

Its just another example of the Laissez-Faire attitudes which prevail today







-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 12:10pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

The hot air generated on this thread is laughable.LOL

My wife and I WALK in and around Llanelli quite a lot.
We also live in an existing 20mph (limit PRIOR to the new limits coming in to effect on Sunday).
Do people stick to the limits..do they hell !
I walked Llanelli today and saw people speeding around.
The police are not going to do anything , so as we live in a "free for all " society, people do what they want.
Nothing will change.

Historically,  it was Barbara Castle , then minister of Transport(1965-68), who brought  in restrictions.
In Feb. 1966 Castle addressed Parliament , calling for profound change in public attitudes" to curtail increasing road fatality figures, stating "Hitler did did not manage to kill as many civilians in Britain's have have been killed on the roads ,since the war". The statistics bore out; between 1945 and the mid 1960's 150,00 were killed and several million injured on Britain's roads.
The situation is 100 times worse now, with more and more cars on the road.

According to various road safety organisations including the AA & RAC, many local authorities representing 28 million people in the UK have declared the national 30mph limit as no longer fit for purpose for most of their urban and village streets and replaced it with 20mph limits.

Another interesting statistic, research unveiled  at the recent COP26 climate conference, revealed that a 20mph can reduce Co2 and people harming NOx by more than 25%.
With transport representing 27% of the total carbon emissions in the UK, then reducing it by a quarter, is a substantive measure that can easily taken to reduce climate warming

"Brake", the road safety charity, reported that every 16 minutes someone is killed or seriously injured on UK roads. In total 1,6008 were killed in 2021, with deaths up 20% on 2020.
The police recorded that 30% of deaths were attributed to drivers exceeding the speed limit.

Last year a motorcyclist was very seriously injured turning right in to Walters rd towards Bigyn hill.
Dreadful parking meant that visibility was partly obscured, but what caused the severity of the collision, was the car travelling down Walters rd at speed. This led to the 20mph being introduced.
I also saw a pensioner being knocked over at the crossing, from pottery street to Asda in Llanelli, simply because the car was going to fast to stop quickly. The poor woman suffered a cardiac arrest, and despite our best efforts, died in the ambulance before it could get to Glangwili

As I understand it there is no "blanket ban" and local authorities can administer a 30mph were  they think appropriate. There is no doubt however that 'technically' our streets are safer at 20mph, but as I stated in my opening intro..it will make little difference as people still do as they like.

Cars are 'Gods' in todays world are we are  afraid not attempt to step on the motorists shoes.
Back in Barbara Castle's day, she introduced the 70mph on motorways, and met the same outrage as the people who signed the recent petition. 
The metaphorical comparison, of course is of a blinkered dray horse plodding on blissful unaware of what is going on around it.
Until it affects them , specifically, if their child or elderly parent was killed or badly injured in a collision, by someone driving too fast, people  will shake their fist in protest that their "freedoms " have been appallingly infringed upon.
We are living in a rootless society devoid of morality and conviction. People will even block disable person access with their car, as has happened to my elderly  neighbour on a few occasions. A complete lack of thought , consideration or compassion

To digress, the law, is a joke when it comes to  offending linked to driving at speed 
A man recently killed 3 people, after driving furiously being well over the limit, and received just a 17 month jail sentence. How can that be fair ?
I have said for a long time that depending on the severity of offence, lifetime driving bans should be introduced for drink drivers

The Tories in the Senydd are also to be condemned. Andrew T Davis what  a scumbag (and big Boris fan) he is. Initially there was cross party consensus initially, when the 20mph limit was proposed, and trialled in eight different locations , going back some time. Since then Davies and his rag tag bunch of toe rag Tories have sniffed out a political opportunity and are now banging the drum in opposition to 20mph, telling lies about blanket bans.
Yes, its the same Tories who opposed the setting up of the NHS, the introduction of the minimum wage, and even devolution itself , and yet there they are banging the drum.

To conclude on a almost comical note ,apart from the fact its deadly serious.
We have been debating on here about the 20mph limits.
One of the thing that has amazed me recently that with the proliferation of electric scooters, how long is going to be before someone gets killed or injured on these things?
I am not of course referring to vespers/mopeds, but the type of scooter that as a child you used to propel with your foot.
Most of these are operated by children around our streets , without a helmet, and are incredibly dangerous, both for themselves  and pedestrians.
How can parents be so irresponsible to allow this, but if (god forbid) an accident happened then there would be a fuss.

Its just another example of the Laissez-Faire attitudes which prevail today






whats the to speed on those scooters , do they wear helmets and do they use lights?


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

"It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas" - Roy

Yes, of course it's built-up areas... that's the point. They are the dangerous roads for pedestrians, which this is predominantly aimed at protecting. Roads that don't really have pedestrians will be exempt. The limit is mostly to reduce pedestrian casualties... for you and RR, I don't know how you can look at those statistics and NOT see the amount of pedestrians hurt or killed on 30mph speed limit roads is VASTLY higher than any others.

I'm not raving about this change either, but the data does show that when you reduce speeds you reduce the impact of collisions and therefore reduce the most negative outcomes and it provide greater time for motorists to see pedestrians, and pedestrians to see motorists. 

ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time

I’d love to hear why you think there’d be more fatalities on a 20mph road. 

Hilarious seeing the loonies signing a petition as if they’re gonna revert back to 30mph. 

Pretty disrespectful calling 160,000 people loons but to be expected of you

The reasons for more accidents and confusion with the new speed limits and unmarked speed limits have been well documented in this thread and elsewhere you conveniently ignore the facts. The complete confusion over the wrong speed signs putting 30mph signs in 20mph roads ....Added to the endless speed bumps, pot holes , wide pavements, central islands, one way streets, part one way streets more and more road works extra traffic lights , extra congestion, more cameras, more pressure on the cops to police it all, roads you can only drive down at certain times of the day , cutbacks on maintenance and relief roads , Higher pollution with cars in lower gears and tyre pollution from the endless braking.....

DPFs diesel particulate filters endlessly clogged up thrugh the endless stop starting  Do you know how much it costs to clean or replace a DPF>?? £800 to clean , to replace brand new £2780 ??? How many can afford that? etc All puts yet more pressure and distraction on drivers on all their varies types of vehicles...Isnt it hard enough to drive big trucks and buses already without all this extra pressure and confusion ....End result will be more people quitting these jobs. far slower supply of goods , services, essential supplies, foods, medication, productivity down....a £4.5 billion hit to the welsh economy (These are welsh labours own estimations so itll probably be greater) . 

You conveniently choose to ignore all of this which makes your opinion n the matter worthless.


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

"It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas" - Roy

Yes, of course it's built-up areas... that's the point. They are the dangerous roads for pedestrians, which this is predominantly aimed at protecting. Roads that don't really have pedestrians will be exempt. The limit is mostly to reduce pedestrian casualties... for you and RR, I don't know how you can look at those statistics and NOT see the amount of pedestrians hurt or killed on 30mph speed limit roads is VASTLY higher than any others.

I'm not raving about this change either, but the data does show that when you reduce speeds you reduce the impact of collisions and therefore reduce the most negative outcomes and it provide greater time for motorists to see pedestrians, and pedestrians to see motorists. 

ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time

I’d love to hear why you think there’d be more fatalities on a 20mph road. 

Hilarious seeing the loonies signing a petition as if they’re gonna revert back to 30mph. 
 there will be more fataliitues on 20 mph as there willbe more 20 mph  roads. There will be less fatalities on 30 mph roads as there will be less 30 mph. It’s just a numbers game. If the total numbers of deaths dont fall what next?  Do we go to 10 mph then?


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

The hot air generated on this thread is laughable.LOL

My wife and I WALK in and around Llanelli quite a lot.
We also live in an existing 20mph (limit PRIOR to the new limits coming in to effect on Sunday).
Do people stick to the limits..do they hell !
I walked Llanelli today and saw people speeding around.
The police are not going to do anything , so as we live in a "free for all " society, people do what they want.
Nothing will change.

Historically,  it was Barbara Castle , then minister of Transport(1965-68), who brought  in restrictions.
In Feb. 1966 Castle addressed Parliament , calling for profound change in public attitudes" to curtail increasing road fatality figures, stating "Hitler did did not manage to kill as many civilians in Britain's have have been killed on the roads ,since the war". The statistics bore out; between 1945 and the mid 1960's 150,00 were killed and several million injured on Britain's roads.
The situation is 100 times worse now, with more and more cars on the road.

According to various road safety organisations including the AA & RAC, many local authorities representing 28 million people in the UK have declared the national 30mph limit as no longer fit for purpose for most of their urban and village streets and replaced it with 20mph limits.

Another interesting statistic, research unveiled  at the recent COP26 climate conference, revealed that a 20mph can reduce Co2 and people harming NOx by more than 25%.
With transport representing 27% of the total carbon emissions in the UK, then reducing it by a quarter, is a substantive measure that can easily taken to reduce climate warming

"Brake", the road safety charity, reported that every 16 minutes someone is killed or seriously injured on UK roads. In total 1,6008 were killed in 2021, with deaths up 20% on 2020.
The police recorded that 30% of deaths were attributed to drivers exceeding the speed limit.

Last year a motorcyclist was very seriously injured turning right in to Walters rd towards Bigyn hill.
Dreadful parking meant that visibility was partly obscured, but what caused the severity of the collision, was the car travelling down Walters rd at speed. This led to the 20mph being introduced.
I also saw a pensioner being knocked over at the crossing, from pottery street to Asda in Llanelli, simply because the car was going to fast to stop quickly. The poor woman suffered a cardiac arrest, and despite our best efforts, died in the ambulance before it could get to Glangwili

As I understand it there is no "blanket ban" and local authorities can administer a 30mph were  they think appropriate. There is no doubt however that 'technically' our streets are safer at 20mph, but as I stated in my opening intro..it will make little difference as people still do as they like.

Cars are 'Gods' in todays world are we are  afraid not attempt to step on the motorists shoes.
Back in Barbara Castle's day, she introduced the 70mph on motorways, and met the same outrage as the people who signed the recent petition. 
The metaphorical comparison, of course is of a blinkered dray horse plodding on blissful unaware of what is going on around it.
Until it affects them , specifically, if their child or elderly parent was killed or badly injured in a collision, by someone driving too fast, people  will shake their fist in protest that their "freedoms " have been appallingly infringed upon.
We are living in a rootless society devoid of morality and conviction. People will even block disable person access with their car, as has happened to my elderly  neighbour on a few occasions. A complete lack of thought , consideration or compassion

To digress, the law, is a joke when it comes to  offending linked to driving at speed 
A man recently killed 3 people, after driving furiously being well over the limit, and received just a 17 month jail sentence. How can that be fair ?
I have said for a long time that depending on the severity of offence, lifetime driving bans should be introduced for drink drivers

The Tories in the Senydd are also to be condemned. Andrew T Davis what  a scumbag (and big Boris fan) he is. Initially there was cross party consensus initially, when the 20mph limit was proposed, and trialled in eight different locations , going back some time. Since then Davies and his rag tag bunch of toe rag Tories have sniffed out a political opportunity and are now banging the drum in opposition to 20mph, telling lies about blanket bans.
Yes, its the same Tories who opposed the setting up of the NHS, the introduction of the minimum wage, and even devolution itself , and yet there they are banging the drum.

To conclude on a almost comical note ,apart from the fact its deadly serious.
We have been debating on here about the 20mph limits.
One of the thing that has amazed me recently that with the proliferation of electric scooters, how long is going to be before someone gets killed or injured on these things?
I am not of course referring to vespers/mopeds, but the type of scooter that as a child you used to propel with your foot.
Most of these are operated by children around our streets , without a helmet, and are incredibly dangerous, both for themselves  and pedestrians.
How can parents be so irresponsible to allow this, but if (god forbid) an accident happened then there would be a fuss.

Its just another example of the Laissez-Faire attitudes which prevail today





pretty sure mote than 150 000 people from the uk died in ww2 to be honest. Speed cameras will catch speeders not police on patrol. You be lucky to see any police out and about now tbh. A few more may help cut down on all these lunkheads driving like they are in  fornula 1 


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 2:31pm
I think the main roads should stay at 30 & then the residential roads coming off the main roads should be down to 20mph.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I think the main roads should stay at 30 & then the residential roads coming off the main roads should be down to 20mph.
and marked properly

https://petitions.senedd.wales/signatures/2022812/signed" rel="nofollow - https://petitions.senedd.wales/signatures/2022812/signed
Petition has over 340,000 signatures now the biggest in Welsh history
drakefords response? we dont care were not relooking at it
ahh what a democrat he is Wink


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 4:18pm
I never envisaged this debate when I asked my simple question about how it affected people getting to PyS from the usual access points - M4 and/or other main entry roads.

Whatever the rules are, there will always be folk who ignore the rules and are inconsiderate to everyone else whether on the road or pavements. While none of those people read Fever, we probably can all come up with a few folk of this type.


-------------
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: greypower1
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I think the main roads should stay at 30 & then the residential roads coming off the main roads should be down to 20mph.

The problem with that idea is that the majority of main roads are also residential roads.


-------------
Keep the faith


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 20 September 2023 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

I never envisaged this debate when I asked my simple question about how it affected people getting to PyS from the usual access points - M4 and/or other main entry roads.

Whatever the rules are, there will always be folk who ignore the rules and are inconsiderate to everyone else whether on the road or pavements. While none of those people read Fever, we probably can all come up with a few folk of this type.

Statistics published by the Department for Transport shows an estimated 719,000 vehicles are being used despite their vehicle excise duty (VED) not being paid. This represents 1.8% of vehicles, up from 1.6% in 2019 when the total was 634,000.


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 21 September 2023 at 3:57am
To follow on from my last point of my last contribution regarding "Scooters".
Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.
I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.
He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.
if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.
As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.


-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 21 September 2023 at 7:57am
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I think the main roads should stay at 30 & then the residential roads coming off the main roads should be down to 20mph.

The problem with that idea is that the majority of main roads are also residential roads.
ok so if fatalties don’t fall what next 10 mph?, the reason there are more  deaths on residential roafs is because rhere are more residential roads than other roads in the uk. It’s not cos pf the speed limit  involved


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 21 September 2023 at 8:01am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

To follow on from my last point of my last contribution regarding "Scooters".
Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.
I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.
He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.
if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.
As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.
i have no doubt a losd of these  scooter users all ovet the uk are selling drug or up to some other nefarious use.They are not insured can be modified to go faster, can’t be caught on foot and can go to parts of an atea cars cant follow. You should have to take a test and insure them if they are to be used on a general highway. It’s the same with these xl bullys a dog that was literally bred for fighting, why would joe public need/wamt one pf these?


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 21 September 2023 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

To follow on from my last point of my last contribution regarding "Scooters".
Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.
I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.
He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.
if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.
As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.
i have no doubt a losd of these  scooter users all ovet the uk are selling drug or up to some other nefarious use.They are not insured can be modified to go faster, can’t be caught on foot and can go to parts of an atea cars cant follow. You should have to take a test and insure them if they are to be used on a general highway. It’s the same with these xl bullys a dog that was literally bred for fighting, why would joe public need/wamt one pf these?

Undoubtedly Apparently only 1 in 10 drug dealers ges to jail
I havent double checked that but clearly the war on drugs never happened and our status quo policy of the govt providing the drugs and the police turning a blind eye to it all, is now set in stone and goes unquestioned by politicians and councillors

Apparently accepting its incurable unavoidable genetic disease is the only way to go and is termed compassionate. The idea of self control or helping to proactively dissuade people from this path in the first place is scoffed at by the so called experts. Is that compassinate? Funny Ive not seen them display the same compassion to communities ravaged and destroyed by drug dealers 


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 21 September 2023 at 1:59pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

To follow on from my last point of my last contribution regarding "Scooters".
Today, my wife and I were walking back from town up pottery street, when I could see a lad coming down Bigyn hill on one of these motorised scooters.
I am not sure what, if any braking power these contraptions have, but this was certainly going in excess of 20pmh, probably more than 30mph, probably aided by the steep hill.
He came to the junction of Ann st and clearly either could not or would not stop.
if any vehicle had been travelling up the Wern or Ann street, then he could easily have been killed or seriously injured.
As it was the lack and control and speed meant he careered across the road in to the door of the shop at the top of pottery street. Any elderly person coming out of the shop would have been at risk of injury.

Leave alone the 20mph limit and cars, I just cannot understand how this is happening and what about the legal responsibility the parents of these individuals, got if they cause an accident.
i have no doubt a losd of these  scooter users all ovet the uk are selling drug or up to some other nefarious use.They are not insured can be modified to go faster, can’t be caught on foot and can go to parts of an atea cars cant follow. You should have to take a test and insure them if they are to be used on a general highway. It’s the same with these xl bullys a dog that was literally bred for fighting, why would joe public need/wamt one pf these?

Undoubtedly Apparently only 1 in 10 drug dealers ges to jail
I havent double checked that but clearly the war on drugs never happened and our status quo policy of the govt providing the drugs and the police turning a blind eye to it all, is now set in stone and goes unquestioned by politicians and councillors

Apparently accepting its incurable unavoidable genetic disease is the only way to go and is termed compassionate. The idea of self control or helping to proactively dissuade people from this path in the first place is scoffed at by the so called experts. Is that compassinate? Funny Ive not seen them display the same compassion to communities ravaged and destroyed by drug dealers 

I have not seen these scooters on display Roy, but they must ge available somewhere. RIDICULOUS. 
Another thing, many if the roadside curbs in and around  Central Llanelli,  are non existent.  I live next to just one fine example , and a fairly busy road.
Complained to counci, nothing done..presumably  no money .
Any limited protection,  you would get from a curg is negated.
We have two primary  schools and a secondary  school on our doorstep, and children  are regularly  walking home.
They would have no chance if a scooter mounted the pavement .
My wife has a f8rm of early onset dementia,  and ,bye way things are, I am always with her when we go out, because even though it can be quiet at times, it only raies a second of madness to witness an unfortunate  and potentially  danger accident. 
Spoke to police ahd they confirmed   children shouldn't be using them.
So where are their parents of tyese children?
Absent without leave, until a tragedy  occurs.
It worries me.


-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 21 September 2023 at 2:22pm
Theyre great fun for the kids but with no regulation or rules its dangerous ........Theyre often on the wrong side of the road no lights on, often holding phones or drinks in their hand at the same time, it a tragedy waiting to happen tbh

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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 23 September 2023 at 11:00am
Wales under Drakeford and Labour is fast becoming a nanny state

Refused to bypass the brynglas tunnels due to environmentalists complaining
banning food deals such as meal deals in supermarkets
20mph zones..

I'm just glad for once that I don't live in Wales.

Labour in Wales are like the Tories in Westminster, unfortunately though in Wales there's no party big enough or popular enough to remove them!


-------------
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 23 September 2023 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Raised By Peregos Raised By Peregos wrote:

"It's not it's pretty much all roads in built up areas" - Roy

Yes, of course it's built-up areas... that's the point. They are the dangerous roads for pedestrians, which this is predominantly aimed at protecting. Roads that don't really have pedestrians will be exempt. The limit is mostly to reduce pedestrian casualties... for you and RR, I don't know how you can look at those statistics and NOT see the amount of pedestrians hurt or killed on 30mph speed limit roads is VASTLY higher than any others.

I'm not raving about this change either, but the data does show that when you reduce speeds you reduce the impact of collisions and therefore reduce the most negative outcomes and it provide greater time for motorists to see pedestrians, and pedestrians to see motorists. 

ok ill bet you any money now we see more 20 mph roads we see more injuries and fatalties in 20 mph zones, the current stats are skewed due to the numbers . The reason more people are currently injured in 30 mph zones is becuse there a lot more 30 mph zones. Let’s see these stats in a years time

I’d love to hear why you think there’d be more fatalities on a 20mph road. 

Hilarious seeing the loonies signing a petition as if they’re gonna revert back to 30mph. 

Pretty disrespectful calling 160,000 people loons but to be expected of you

The reasons for more accidents and confusion with the new speed limits and unmarked speed limits have been well documented in this thread and elsewhere you conveniently ignore the facts. The complete confusion over the wrong speed signs putting 30mph signs in 20mph roads ....Added to the endless speed bumps, pot holes , wide pavements, central islands, one way streets, part one way streets more and more road works extra traffic lights , extra congestion, more cameras, more pressure on the cops to police it all, roads you can only drive down at certain times of the day , cutbacks on maintenance and relief roads , Higher pollution with cars in lower gears and tyre pollution from the endless braking.....

DPFs diesel particulate filters endlessly clogged up thrugh the endless stop starting  Do you know how much it costs to clean or replace a DPF>?? £800 to clean , to replace brand new £2780 ??? How many can afford that? etc All puts yet more pressure and distraction on drivers on all their varies types of vehicles...Isnt it hard enough to drive big trucks and buses already without all this extra pressure and confusion ....End result will be more people quitting these jobs. far slower supply of goods , services, essential supplies, foods, medication, productivity down....a £4.5 billion hit to the welsh economy (These are welsh labours own estimations so itll probably be greater) . 

You conveniently choose to ignore all of this which makes your opinion n the matter worthless.

The reasons you give for more accidents aren’t new??? So you didn’t really answer my question. It’s not gonna be changed back so I’d get used to it. It’s for the future anyway. The next generation of drivers will be used to it plus it’s gonna be all electric cars in the future. Dashcam being fitted Tuesday ready to catch anyone driving too close to me. 


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 23 September 2023 at 3:57pm
What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 23 September 2023 at 10:21pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 

Totally agree with Reesy and also SA15 above.
I would repeat  would I have said before.. my wife and I WALK around Llanelli a considerable amount . As a pedestrian  I am well aware of the speeds cars do in in an urban area,  whether they are near schools or not. We live in a 20 mph limit, and that was so, BEFORE the limit came into force. People take scant notice to be honest, which sums up the " do as I like society " we have become.
The majority of people do'nt walk anywhere,  just jump into their car, and consequently they have little idea whats its like to be a pedestrian .
This is half the problem with our society today, totally reliant on cars, 
,which is contributing hugely to Co2 emissions  & the destruction  of the natural world we love, wiping out species in the process. 


-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: Winston
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 6:29am
Try wonastow Road Monmouth. No residential properties.  In fact not many industrial properties.  20mph🤷‍♂️


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 

Totally agree with Reesy and also SA15 above.
I would repeat  would I have said before.. my wife and I WALK around Llanelli a considerable amount . As a pedestrian  I am well aware of the speeds cars do in in an urban area,  whether they are near schools or not. We live in a 20 mph limit, and that was so, BEFORE the limit came into force. People take scant notice to be honest, which sums up the " do as I like society " we have become.
The majority of people do'nt walk anywhere,  just jump into their car, and consequently they have little idea whats its like to be a pedestrian .
This is half the problem with our society today, totally reliant on cars, 
,which is contributing hugely to Co2 emissions  & the destruction  of the natural world we love, wiping out species in the process. 

But there’s more electric cars on the road and it’ll only increase. Plus as someone pointed out it’s been a few days. The next generation will be used to it. People moaning because they can’t drive fast. 


Posted By: ap sior
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 4:04pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 

Totally agree with Reesy and also SA15 above.
I would repeat  would I have said before.. my wife and I WALK around Llanelli a considerable amount . As a pedestrian  I am well aware of the speeds cars do in in an urban area,  whether they are near schools or not. We live in a 20 mph limit, and that was so, BEFORE the limit came into force. People take scant notice to be honest, which sums up the " do as I like society " we have become.
The majority of people do'nt walk anywhere,  just jump into their car, and consequently they have little idea whats its like to be a pedestrian .
This is half the problem with our society today, totally reliant on cars, 
,which is contributing hugely to Co2 emissions  & the destruction  of the natural world we love, wiping out species in the process. 

But there’s more electric cars on the road and it’ll only increase. Plus as someone pointed out it’s been a few days. The next generation will be used to it. People moaning because they can’t drive fast. 
 

Excuse me if this has been posted previously, but electric cars are 30% heavier than an equivalent diesel car. This translates into longer stopping distances.


Posted By: Winston
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 4:58pm
Isn’t it just a shame that we can’t drive to the road conditions. If I’m on a windy country Lane I’m not doing 60. Nearer 30.  If you’re in town or near schools you slow down. If you’re on a motorway or dual carriageway with low levels of traffic you take the opportunity to travel at 70.  Unless in Wales of course 


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 6:16pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 

Totally agree with Reesy and also SA15 above.
I would repeat  would I have said before.. my wife and I WALK around Llanelli a considerable amount . As a pedestrian  I am well aware of the speeds cars do in in an urban area,  whether they are near schools or not. We live in a 20 mph limit, and that was so, BEFORE the limit came into force. People take scant notice to be honest, which sums up the " do as I like society " we have become.
The majority of people do'nt walk anywhere,  just jump into their car, and consequently they have little idea whats its like to be a pedestrian .
This is half the problem with our society today, totally reliant on cars, 
,which is contributing hugely to Co2 emissions  & the destruction  of the natural world we love, wiping out species in the process. 

But there’s more electric cars on the road and it’ll only increase. Plus as someone pointed out it’s been a few days. The next generation will be used to it. People moaning because they can’t drive fast. 
 

Excuse me if this has been posted previously, but electric cars are 30% heavier than an equivalent diesel car. This translates into longer stopping distances.

Really? Well all the more reason to change to 20. Thanks for that fact when I advocate 20mph. LOL I use electric cars when people say about strain on the engine and pollution. I’ve got another string to my arrow now. 


Posted By: Winston
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 

Totally agree with Reesy and also SA15 above.
I would repeat  would I have said before.. my wife and I WALK around Llanelli a considerable amount . As a pedestrian  I am well aware of the speeds cars do in in an urban area,  whether they are near schools or not. We live in a 20 mph limit, and that was so, BEFORE the limit came into force. People take scant notice to be honest, which sums up the " do as I like society " we have become.
The majority of people do'nt walk anywhere,  just jump into their car, and consequently they have little idea whats its like to be a pedestrian .
This is half the problem with our society today, totally reliant on cars, 
,which is contributing hugely to Co2 emissions  & the destruction  of the natural world we love, wiping out species in the process. 

But there’s more electric cars on the road and it’ll only increase. Plus as someone pointed out it’s been a few days. The next generation will be used to it. People moaning because they can’t drive fast. 
 

Excuse me if this has been posted previously, but electric cars are 30% heavier than an equivalent diesel car. This translates into longer stopping distances.

Really? Well all the more reason to change to 20. Thanks for that fact when I advocate 20mph. LOL I use electric cars when people say about strain on the engine and pollution. I’ve got another string to my arrow now. 

I don’t have and never will have an electric car. So 20mph for electric cars only 


Posted By: Mogwen
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 7:23pm
I have no issue with the principle of 20mph zones, and am someone who isnt a fast driver. I live in a 20mph zone and cars speed past my hpuse all the time. Not once have i seen a speed van on our road.The police couldnt enforce the 30mph rules, let alone 20mph zones popping up everywhere. That isnt a dig at the police just fact. This policy has cost over £35m to date and by all accounts that will spiral further as issues arise. Take into account that education is underfunded by 10's of millions this year and tbe NHS forecasting a shortfall of over £800m, surely the money spent should have been invested better by the WA. Talking to a Labour representative a while ago, he said that if they had replaced ALL 30mph zones with 20mph zones it would have saved £millions without any major hastle. To say "some 30mph zones will be 20mph and some wo t" doesnt cut the mustard for me.

-------------
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 11:04pm
Originally posted by Winston Winston wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

What’s more concerning is that people sit at home voting on phones for something that has only been in force about 3-4 days not years. The reaction is incredibly OTT especially when the policy is based on care for safety. It needs a year to monitor surely and then review properly imo. In the interim period ,exceptions can be put to individual councils for consideration on the merits. I just don’t understand the knee jerk at all. Just my opinion of course 

Totally agree with Reesy and also SA15 above.
I would repeat  would I have said before.. my wife and I WALK around Llanelli a considerable amount . As a pedestrian  I am well aware of the speeds cars do in in an urban area,  whether they are near schools or not. We live in a 20 mph limit, and that was so, BEFORE the limit came into force. People take scant notice to be honest, which sums up the " do as I like society " we have become.
The majority of people do'nt walk anywhere,  just jump into their car, and consequently they have little idea whats its like to be a pedestrian .
This is half the problem with our society today, totally reliant on cars, 
,which is contributing hugely to Co2 emissions  & the destruction  of the natural world we love, wiping out species in the process. 

But there’s more electric cars on the road and it’ll only increase. Plus as someone pointed out it’s been a few days. The next generation will be used to it. People moaning because they can’t drive fast. 
 

Excuse me if this has been posted previously, but electric cars are 30% heavier than an equivalent diesel car. This translates into longer stopping distances.

Really? Well all the more reason to change to 20. Thanks for that fact when I advocate 20mph. LOL I use electric cars when people say about strain on the engine and pollution. I’ve got another string to my arrow now. 

I don’t have and never will have an electric car. So 20mph for electric cars only 

One day you will. 


Posted By: Winston
Date Posted: 24 September 2023 at 11:08pm
Oh no I won’t.  I’m too old.  Whether it’s 2030 or 2035.  I won’t. So you don’t know everything eh 


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 12:07am
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Wales under Drakeford and Labour is fast becoming a nanny state

Refused to bypass the brynglas tunnels due to environmentalists complaining
banning food deals such as meal deals in supermarkets
20mph zones..

I'm just glad for once that I don't live in Wales.

Labour in Wales are like the Tories in Westminster, unfortunately though in Wales there's no party big enough or popular enough to remove them!

Dont forget the 100 pages of frankly insane anti landlord laws, the bankrupt airport, compulsory heater pumps to replace boilers at massive cost, the record council tax hikes........Oh and theyve recently bought portcawl coney island beach and funfair etc and sold it off for houses
The biggest elvis festival in the world is now finished because of this and trecco bay one of the biggest caravan parks in europe will soon lose that status too.......Anti business, anti common sense WAG are destroying our economy 


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 5:47am
Wait until the camera vans are placed in positions not for safety but for maximum chance of fining people.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 8:38am
After some time this week doing 20mph in town the problem is where the 30 starts the 20 ends and where the 40 and 50 starts....its a mess tbh. The only thing I agree with is 20 around schools and when your driving through town etc, I think its a good thing but there are still the looneys that do 40 in a 20 and no cops around to do anything anyway. Bit farcical 



-------------
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Fscarlet
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 9:09am
There's a part of the road by us that goes from 40, to 20 then 60 all within 1/2 a mile.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 2:08pm
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

There's a part of the road by us that goes from 40, to 20 then 60 all within 1/2 a mile.

Theres loads like that its utter carnage

Do we know when the cash machine cameras are going up?


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: scarletpimp
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Wales under Drakeford and Labour is fast becoming a nanny state

Refused to bypass the brynglas tunnels due to environmentalists complaining
banning food deals such as meal deals in supermarkets
20mph zones..

I'm just glad for once that I don't live in Wales.

Labour in Wales are like the Tories in Westminster, unfortunately though in Wales there's no party big enough or popular enough to remove them!

Dont forget the 100 pages of frankly insane anti landlord laws, the bankrupt airport, compulsory heater pumps to replace boilers at massive cost, the record council tax hikes........Oh and theyve recently bought portcawl coney island beach and funfair etc and sold it off for houses
The biggest elvis festival in the world is now finished because of this and trecco bay one of the biggest caravan parks in europe will soon lose that status too.......Anti business, anti common sense WAG are destroying our economy 
Total tosh again from Salmidach and Roy.
I'd like to know if you do'nt live in Wales Salmidach what right you have come on to this forum and lecture us who do, pay our rates, support local businesses . Etc
The Brynglas tunnels are an issue,  and a protracted debate ensured on different routes,  but a decision was made for financial reasons, as otherwise it would have cripled WAG's budget

As  for the 20mlh limit, well we know its a good idea.

Roy's point about landlord  regulation  was badly needed.
Just look around Llanelli at the appalling state of rented housing in the centre of town.
People who cannof afford to buy are now  either stuck on long council house lists , ir subjected too the vagaries of the private rented sector paying exorbitant rents .Some of the properties look uninhabitable..but sadly are!


-------------
I stood yer on tanner bank


Posted By: salmidach
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Wales under Drakeford and Labour is fast becoming a nanny state

Refused to bypass the brynglas tunnels due to environmentalists complaining
banning food deals such as meal deals in supermarkets
20mph zones..

I'm just glad for once that I don't live in Wales.

Labour in Wales are like the Tories in Westminster, unfortunately though in Wales there's no party big enough or popular enough to remove them!

Dont forget the 100 pages of frankly insane anti landlord laws, the bankrupt airport, compulsory heater pumps to replace boilers at massive cost, the record council tax hikes........Oh and theyve recently bought portcawl coney island beach and funfair etc and sold it off for houses
The biggest elvis festival in the world is now finished because of this and trecco bay one of the biggest caravan parks in europe will soon lose that status too.......Anti business, anti common sense WAG are destroying our economy 
Total tosh again from Salmidach and Roy.
I'd like to know if you do'nt live in Wales Salmidach what right you have come on to this forum and lecture us who do, pay our rates, support local businesses . Etc
The Brynglas tunnels are an issue,  and a protracted debate ensured on different routes,  but a decision was made for financial reasons, as otherwise it would have cripled WAG's budget

As  for the 20mlh limit, well we know its a good idea.

Roy's point about landlord  regulation  was badly needed.
Just look around Llanelli at the appalling state of rented housing in the centre of town.
People who cannof afford to buy are now  either stuck on long council house lists , ir subjected too the vagaries of the private rented sector paying exorbitant rents .Some of the properties look uninhabitable..but sadly are!

born and bred in felinfoel my old mucka and last time I checked this was a forum, perhaps you might want to look up what the word forum means.

I visit regularly to see my family, and it's just another poor example of how badly Wales is being run under Drakeford and his muppoets....

I work part time in in a hotel in Cornwall and some guests started talking to me and when they heard my accent they asked what did I think of the 20mph zone. basically I said it was a farce and their reply was that they used to go on holiday regularly to Wales (twice, three times a year) and they won't any longer.

So whilst you continue with your insular views, I'll continue to have mine.


-------------
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance - Terry Pratchett


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 25 September 2023 at 9:12pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Wales under Drakeford and Labour is fast becoming a nanny state

Refused to bypass the brynglas tunnels due to environmentalists complaining
banning food deals such as meal deals in supermarkets
20mph zones..

I'm just glad for once that I don't live in Wales.

Labour in Wales are like the Tories in Westminster, unfortunately though in Wales there's no party big enough or popular enough to remove them!

Dont forget the 100 pages of frankly insane anti landlord laws, the bankrupt airport, compulsory heater pumps to replace boilers at massive cost, the record council tax hikes........Oh and theyve recently bought portcawl coney island beach and funfair etc and sold it off for houses
The biggest elvis festival in the world is now finished because of this and trecco bay one of the biggest caravan parks in europe will soon lose that status too.......Anti business, anti common sense WAG are destroying our economy 
Total tosh again from Salmidach and Roy.
I'd like to know if you do'nt live in Wales Salmidach what right you have come on to this forum and lecture us who do, pay our rates, support local businesses . Etc
The Brynglas tunnels are an issue,  and a protracted debate ensured on different routes,  but a decision was made for financial reasons, as otherwise it would have cripled WAG's budget

As  for the 20mlh limit, well we know its a good idea.

Roy's point about landlord  regulation  was badly needed.
Just look around Llanelli at the appalling state of rented housing in the centre of town.
People who cannof afford to buy are now  either stuck on long council house lists , ir subjected too the vagaries of the private rented sector paying exorbitant rents .Some of the properties look uninhabitable..but sadly are!

born and bred in felinfoel my old mucka and last time I checked this was a forum, perhaps you might want to look up what the word forum means.

I visit regularly to see my family, and it's just another poor example of how badly Wales is being run under Drakeford and his muppoets....

I work part time in in a hotel in Cornwall and some guests started talking to me and when they heard my accent they asked what did I think of the 20mph zone. basically I said it was a farce and their reply was that they used to go on holiday regularly to Wales (twice, three times a year) and they won't any longer.

So whilst you continue with your insular views, I'll continue to have mine.

Won’t go to wales because they’ve dropped the speed limit? ££££


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 4:38am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Wales under Drakeford and Labour is fast becoming a nanny state

Refused to bypass the brynglas tunnels due to environmentalists complaining
banning food deals such as meal deals in supermarkets
20mph zones..

I'm just glad for once that I don't live in Wales.

Labour in Wales are like the Tories in Westminster, unfortunately though in Wales there's no party big enough or popular enough to remove them!

Dont forget the 100 pages of frankly insane anti landlord laws, the bankrupt airport, compulsory heater pumps to replace boilers at massive cost, the record council tax hikes........Oh and theyve recently bought portcawl coney island beach and funfair etc and sold it off for houses
The biggest elvis festival in the world is now finished because of this and trecco bay one of the biggest caravan parks in europe will soon lose that status too.......Anti business, anti common sense WAG are destroying our economy 
Total tosh again from Salmidach and Roy.
I'd like to know if you do'nt live in Wales Salmidach what right you have come on to this forum and lecture us who do, pay our rates, support local businesses . Etc
The Brynglas tunnels are an issue,  and a protracted debate ensured on different routes,  but a decision was made for financial reasons, as otherwise it would have cripled WAG's budget

As  for the 20mlh limit, well we know its a good idea.

Roy's point about landlord  regulation  was badly needed.
Just look around Llanelli at the appalling state of rented housing in the centre of town.
People who cannof afford to buy are now  either stuck on long council house lists , ir subjected too the vagaries of the private rented sector paying exorbitant rents .Some of the properties look uninhabitable..but sadly are!


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 4:42am
Pimp as long as i can remember the welsh government have been talking about a Llandeilo by pass but they don't give a poo about road safety there where massive lorries trundle through within inches of pedestrians and Salmidach is entitled to his opinion as yours are on a variety of subjects in places you don't reside.


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Pimp as long as i can remember the welsh government have been talking about a Llandeilo by pass but they don't give a poo about road safety there where massive lorries trundle through within inches of pedestrians and Salmidach is entitled to his opinion as yours are on a variety of subjects in places you don't reside.

Spot on and the endless pot holes / craters and neglect on road repairs is certainly not helping safety either.


-------------
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 6:05pm
Many rented houses look uninhabitable because the tenants run them into the ground and under new guide lines you cant shift then for a year (at minimum) if you smash your rented house up
And get evicted your entitled  to emergency housing as you have made homeless. If you leave after notice peruod you aren’t its a bonkets system, leading to many lamdlords selling up there being less rented properties on market so rents are higher. A good idea by the wa that is awful in practice the wa have no idea how things work in the real world and  not n their  political bubble


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 6:14pm
You have a point RR. There are 2 sides to the rental debate.





Posted By: bydder
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 8:00pm
Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by salmidach salmidach wrote:

Wales under Drakeford and Labour is fast becoming a nanny state

Refused to bypass the brynglas tunnels due to environmentalists complaining
banning food deals such as meal deals in supermarkets
20mph zones..

I'm just glad for once that I don't live in Wales.

Labour in Wales are like the Tories in Westminster, unfortunately though in Wales there's no party big enough or popular enough to remove them!

Dont forget the 100 pages of frankly insane anti landlord laws, the bankrupt airport, compulsory heater pumps to replace boilers at massive cost, the record council tax hikes........Oh and theyve recently bought portcawl coney island beach and funfair etc and sold it off for houses
The biggest elvis festival in the world is now finished because of this and trecco bay one of the biggest caravan parks in europe will soon lose that status too.......Anti business, anti common sense WAG are destroying our economy 
Total tosh again from Salmidach and Roy.
I'd like to know if you do'nt live in Wales Salmidach what right you have come on to this forum and lecture us who do, pay our rates, support local businesses . Etc
The Brynglas tunnels are an issue,  and a protracted debate ensured on different routes,  but a decision was made for financial reasons, as otherwise it would have cripled WAG's budget

As  for the 20mlh limit, well we know its a good idea.

Roy's point about landlord  regulation  was badly needed.
Just look around Llanelli at the appalling state of rented housing in the centre of town.
People who cannof afford to buy are now  either stuck on long council house lists , ir subjected too the vagaries of the private rented sector paying exorbitant rents .Some of the properties look uninhabitable..but sadly are!

born and bred in felinfoel my old mucka and last time I checked this was a forum, perhaps you might want to look up what the word forum means.

I visit regularly to see my family, and it's just another poor example of how badly Wales is being run under Drakeford and his muppoets....

I work part time in in a hotel in Cornwall and some guests started talking to me and when they heard my accent they asked what did I think of the 20mph zone. basically I said it was a farce and their reply was that they used to go on holiday regularly to Wales (twice, three times a year) and they won't any longer.

So whilst you continue with your insular views, I'll continue to have mine.
how pathetic


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N11


Posted By: Winston
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 8:12pm
Please can we keep politics out of a rugby forum. 


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 8:29pm
I read, but my memory might have sieved it, that Cornwall was one of the first places to take on extending the 20mph thing, albeit rolling it out rather then a sort of overnight change.


Posted By: bydder
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I read, but my memory might have sieved it, that Cornwall was one of the first places to take on extending the 20mph thing, albeit rolling it out rather then a sort of overnight change.
correct
http://www.cornwall.gov.uk/transport-parking-and-streets/roads-highways-and-pavements/20mph-speed-limits/" rel="nofollow - https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/transport-parking-and-streets/roads-highways-and-pavements/20mph-speed-limits/


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N11


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 26 September 2023 at 9:18pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I read, but my memory might have sieved it, that Cornwall was one of the first places to take on extending the 20mph thing, albeit rolling it out rather then a sort of overnight change.
 
Your right. I’m in St Ives at the moment and haven’t paid attention to it and must have driven through different speed zones but in total ignorance of the speed changes you rightly mentioned.It’s also not a topical subject but then it seems it’s been phased in since March , which perhaps the Welsh govt should have done. Mind you it’s usually chocker here anyway so can’t go more than 20 mph 😉


Posted By: roy munster
Date Posted: 27 September 2023 at 3:43am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Many rented houses look uninhabitable because the tenants run them into the ground and under new guide lines you cant shift then for a year (at minimum) if you smash your rented house up
And get evicted your entitled  to emergency housing as you have made homeless. If you leave after notice peruod you aren’t its a bonkets system, leading to many lamdlords selling up there being less rented properties on market so rents are higher. A good idea by the wa that is awful in practice the wa have no idea how things work in the real world and  not n their  political bubble
correct 


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ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 28 September 2023 at 10:49pm
There's some seriously screwed up people driving...driving home from work there was a woman in a Renault Range rover copy who was swerving and driving on the M4 as if it was a race track....undercutting, not indicating and a total loon...drive 1,500 miles a month the standard of driving is absolutely insane......if someone indicates they want to pull out doesn'tgive them the right to just effing pull out with a cars length gap.......its even.worse when I'm on my motorbike....a Mercedes ponce cut me up on a roundabout and he didn't even acknowledge he was in the wrong....he was lucky I didn't boot his door in when I passed him in the traffic jam when I was riding up the middle of cars.

And before anyone has a pop you will fail your test if you don't filter or filteringin legal terms ....I followed a cop biker once who was screaming at car drivers who were closing the gap to stop him progressing....brilliant stuff when passed each other with thumbs up......so for me they are lunatics on the road I see it everyday.




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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 29 September 2023 at 9:43am
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

There's some seriously screwed up people driving...driving home from work there was a woman in a Renault Range rover copy who was swerving and driving on the M4 as if it was a race track....undercutting, not indicating and a total loon...drive 1,500 miles a month the standard of driving is absolutely insane......if someone indicates they want to pull out doesn'tgive them the right to just effing pull out with a cars length gap.......its even.worse when I'm on my motorbike....a Mercedes ponce cut me up on a roundabout and he didn't even acknowledge he was in the wrong....he was lucky I didn't boot his door in when I passed him in the traffic jam when I was riding up the middle of cars.

And before anyone has a pop you will fail your test if you don't filter or filteringin legal terms ....I followed a cop biker once who was screaming at car drivers who were closing the gap to stop him progressing....brilliant stuff when passed each other with thumbs up......so for me they are lunatics on the road I see it everyday.


You’re right Lofty. There is a lot less patience on the road since Covid lockdowns ended. So much more selfishness exhibited. Do you have a helmet cam? 

Good restraint on the door denting. In the eras of dashcams it’s a lot easier to be held accountable for it. Oh for an easily administered adhesive L-plate onto the window!

In international hockey tournaments in Malaysia, you get a motorbike squad police escort from hotels to stadium and back. Too bad for the motorists if it’s rush hour in KL, many outriders boot the doors even though there’s nothing much the poor old motorist could do to get out of the way.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: lofty evans
Date Posted: 02 October 2023 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

There's some seriously screwed up people driving...driving home from work there was a woman in a Renault Range rover copy who was swerving and driving on the M4 as if it was a race track....undercutting, not indicating and a total loon...drive 1,500 miles a month the standard of driving is absolutely insane......if someone indicates they want to pull out doesn'tgive them the right to just effing pull out with a cars length gap.......its even.worse when I'm on my motorbike....a Mercedes ponce cut me up on a roundabout and he didn't even acknowledge he was in the wrong....he was lucky I didn't boot his door in when I passed him in the traffic jam when I was riding up the middle of cars.

And before anyone has a pop you will fail your test if you don't filter or filteringin legal terms ....I followed a cop biker once who was screaming at car drivers who were closing the gap to stop him progressing....brilliant stuff when passed each other with thumbs up......so for me they are lunatics on the road I see it everyday.


You’re right Lofty. There is a lot less patience on the road since Covid lockdowns ended. So much more selfishness exhibited. Do you have a helmet cam? 

Good restraint on the door denting. In the eras of dashcams it’s a lot easier to be held accountable for it. Oh for an easily administered adhesive L-plate onto the window!

In international hockey tournaments in Malaysia, you get a motorbike squad police escort from hotels to stadium and back. Too bad for the motorists if it’s rush hour in KL, many outriders boot the doors even though there’s nothing much the poor old motorist could do to get out of the way.

If I had a helmet cam wife wouldn't be happy seeing the stuff going on .....today yep today slipped down to llanelli to get some proper octane fuel and a guy totally oblivious to me pulled out without a car in the world...I have a horn that sounds like a truck horn to wake him up..apologise and all that doesn't matter if he breaks my neck..honestly the standard of driving is utterly atrocious....bring it to 10 mph with a guy with a red flag in front of every nutter out there...




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In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"


Posted By: Rob o'r Bont
Date Posted: 02 October 2023 at 10:50pm
I have to say travelling through the Bont and and Hendy, the 20mph sign makes perfect sense.  There isn't a single road in those two villages that needs to have a 30mph limit.  I'm sure it's true for many similar villages throughout Wales. And remember the signs are meant t be limits, not targets to be reached.

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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 03 October 2023 at 8:05am
A few signs gone ‘ missing’ or been vandalised in my part of the world.



Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 03 October 2023 at 3:58pm
Tbh I think the new law may just have slow many people down in general as you become more aware of speed when you move up to 30 or 40 mph on urban roads. Having driven around since the law came in I can’t notice any difference eg no aggression or tailgating etc . Personally I would have thought Wales had issues to deal with and speed of getting from A to B isn’t a proper issue affecting the state of the country- it’s a habit change to me. 


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 05 October 2023 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

A few signs gone ‘ missing’ or been vandalised in my part of the world.


The irony when I read on social media people moaning about the cost of all this then laughing when the signs get torn down. To be replaced using more money. 


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 05 October 2023 at 6:22pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

A few signs gone ‘ missing’ or been vandalised in my part of the world.


The irony when I read on social media people moaning about the cost of all this then laughing when the signs get torn down. To be replaced using more money. 

Quite a few crudely daubed over in a stretch of road in Gowerton heading towards Dunvant . Bit quieter there for the late night criminal damage. Pathetic stuff. 


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 05 October 2023 at 10:27pm
Surely one of the points here is that the petition is or may have passed 1/2 million signatures whereas i believe 10,000 were needed for it to be discussed at the senydd only for dripford to say there is to be no going back well surely that's what democracy is all about?


Posted By: Winston
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 6:56am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Surely one of the points here is that the petition is or may have passed 1/2 million signatures whereas i believe 10,000 were needed for it to be discussed at the senydd only for dripford to say there is to be no going back well surely that's what democracy is all about?

There is no democracy in Wales. 


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 9:34am
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Tbh I think the new law may just have slow many people down in general as you become more aware of speed when you move up to 30 or 40 mph on urban roads. Having driven around since the law came in I can’t notice any difference eg no aggression or tailgating etc . Personally I would have thought Wales had issues to deal with and speed of getting from A to B isn’t a proper issue affecting the state of the country- it’s a habit change to me. 
. Ha when your a pensioner you have all the tine in the world. I can picture you with drving gloves on and a cravat serenly gliding through the countryside with some wonderful italian opera singer blasting out of the car stero Wink.   Like a west walian terry thomas Never mind speed limits get these road works sorted out, that heads of the valleys thing has been going on for ever and don’t get me started on the brynglas tunnell


Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 9:43am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Tbh I think the new law may just have slow many people down in general as you become more aware of speed when you move up to 30 or 40 mph on urban roads. Having driven around since the law came in I can’t notice any difference eg no aggression or tailgating etc . Personally I would have thought Wales had issues to deal with and speed of getting from A to B isn’t a proper issue affecting the state of the country- it’s a habit change to me. 
. Ha when you’re a pensioner you have all the tine in the world. I can picture you with drving gloves on and a cravat serenly gliding through the countryside with some wonderful italian opera singer blasting out of the car stero Wink.   Like a west walian terry thomas Never mind speed limits get these road works sorted out, that heads of the valleys thing has been going on for ever  and don’t get me started on the brynglas tunnell
Ha ha.. you have sussed me! 😉 I’m off now for a leisurely drive to the Coffee Shop 🚘😉



Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 9:52am
Get a bit off nessun dorma on for me please Wink


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 2:33pm
Been in Edinburgh these last few nights. Took a taxi into the suburbs to see clients and once out of the busy parts, it was very speedy although never fear-inducing.

We complimented the driving and saying it reminded us of being in Italy. We enquired about the speed relative to the limits. Of the 20 mph zones, he said, “Och! No one pay any attention to those”.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: RR1972
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Been in Edinburgh these last few nights. Took a taxi into the suburbs to see clients and once out of the busy parts, it was very speedy although never fear-inducing.

We complimented the driving and saying it reminded us of being in Italy. We enquired about the speed relative to the limits. Of the 20 mph zones, he said, “Och! No one pay any attention to those”.
have a great time my friend fabulous city, the whisky museum by the castle is well worth a visit


Posted By: SA14
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 4:52pm
I see Sunak is looking into reversing the changes. In fact he’s promising a few sane looking things that can get him votes. You could swear there’s a general election next year. 


Posted By: Eastern outpost
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Been in Edinburgh these last few nights. Took a taxi into the suburbs to see clients and once out of the busy parts, it was very speedy although never fear-inducing.

We complimented the driving and saying it reminded us of being in Italy. We enquired about the speed relative to the limits. Of the 20 mph zones, he said, “Och! No one pay any attention to those”.
have a great time my friend fabulous city, the whisky museum by the castle is well worth a visit
Too late for the Whisky Museum. I think I had an evening there a few years ago, pre-Covid. It was most entertaining. Some of the folk there exceeded their capacity a bit too quickly for their own good, if it’s the same place I am thinking of.

Have just left Peterborough to head across the Fens to the more scenic parts of East Anglia.


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In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.


Posted By: Wil Chips
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 6:00pm
I find myself driving slower overall. Not just on the 20mph zone but because I’m too slow to process multiple speed limits around my home so sort of pick the lowest one and stick to it 😊

1 mile right out of my drive it’s 30-60-40-20-40-60.

1 mile left it’s 30-60-20-60-20-40-60



Posted By: reesytheexile
Date Posted: 06 October 2023 at 10:47pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I find myself driving slower overall. Not just on the 20mph zone but because I’m too slow to process multiple speed limits around my home so sort of pick the lowest one and stick to it 😊

1 mile right out of my drive it’s tel:30-60-40-20-40-60" rel="nofollow - 30-60-40-20-40-60 .

1 mile left it’s tel:30-60-20-60-20-40-60" rel="nofollow - 30-60-20-60-20-40-60

I can really identify with that feeling. There seems to be too much variation of speed limits in short distances . Hopefully this will all be looked at over the next year 🙏


Posted By: gnasher1975
Date Posted: 14 October 2023 at 7:42pm
To be honest between the speed bumps and the potholes in gowerton 20mph is an achievement.


Posted By: Mrfwon
Date Posted: 07 November 2023 at 4:29pm
The Welsh government can set the speed limits to whatever they like! The crucial bit, is how effective it's going to be going forwards, which ultimately comes down to how well it's going to be policed.

Unfortunately, there are not enough police on our roads to be able to police this effectively, and whilst this change has been brought in, in an attempt to reduce accidents and risk to live, it's down to us individuals to do the right thing and abide by it. 

Unfortunately, once again, as many have already mentioned, people do whatever they like on the roads these days, and again, there aren't currently enough police on our roads to tackle the existing problems on our roads, let along trying to enforce by catching drivers speeding above 20mph.

Inner cities, towns, around schools and area's where streets are narrow, parking is an issue etc etc, 20mph is definitely going to help for sure, but on the outskirts of cities, towns and even villages where residential areas are at minimum, I just don't get it.

Add in the poor attempt at implementing this with poor signage, or not even updating existing signage, it's just smacks extremely poor planning.


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Scarlets!!!


Posted By: Sir Duckling Tuft
Date Posted: 22 November 2023 at 6:27am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Out of curio how do 40 mph  roafs compare to 30 mph injury wise? ? If they are lower Maybe we should increase not reduce soeed! There are a lot more (well there were a lot more) 30 mph roads than 20 mph roads than 30 mph so it stands to reason there will be more fatalities on these roads. I dare say there are less pedestrians killed and injured on motor ways then there are on 20 mph and 30 mph roads? See how easy it is to bend  stats to your view point

firefighters and other emergency workers castguard paramedics etc are saying theyre arriving late to their work places or fire stations as a result of the 20 mph to get to work in the 1st place.....fires dont wait for speed cameras....Yet another of the infinite negative scenarios not considered by the welsh govt


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sir duckling tuft


Posted By: ladram
Date Posted: 22 November 2023 at 6:37am
The Welsh government have passed a law saying that they can impose tolls and ULEZ areas in Wales although labour says it has no intention to do so Drakeford also said that Elvis is alive and lives in Porthcawl and the tooth fairy is to be taxed on her earnings.


Posted By: Sir Duckling Tuft
Date Posted: 22 November 2023 at 7:28am
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

The Welsh government have passed a law saying that they can impose tolls and ULEZ areas in Wales although labour says it has no intention to do so Drakeford also said that Elvis is alive and lives in Porthcawl and the tooth fairy is to be taxed on her earnings.

welsh labour are destroying porthcawl too
the elvis festival ended (The biggest 1 in the world) because welsh labour are destroying coney beach thus destroying the biggest caravan park in europe at trekko bay (theyre building a load of flats there apparently)

Ive no idea why were all banging on abut the tories in london when its welsh labour that is destroying wales 




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sir duckling tuft



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