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Points: 8362 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 July 2022 at 2:09pm
Interestingly enough, I did read somewhere earlier that World Rugby are looking at awarding central contracts for the best international referees for test matches including the 6 Nations, Rugby Championship & the World Cup.
 
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Jones2004 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Hits to the head are obviously a problem, however you can suffer a concussion without being hit on the head, and that's the issue. I remember being tackled head on once (there was no head contact) and was  stopped dead in my tracks. I certainly saw stars, and felt a little sick for few minutes, but carried on playing.

I remember once talking to an Wales & BI international who said that the hardest tackle he ever suffered was at St Helen's, and he was clear that it was a fair but hard tackle. His expereiance was the same as mine, seeing stars and feeling sick afterwards, he also said that there'd been no head contact in the tackle. 

In my humble experience therefore, head hits aren't the only issue. I think we need to go down to 5 subs, 3 front row and 2 backs, but substitutions scan only be made when there's an injury.
The problem with injury substitutions is what exactly counts as an ‘injury’? Does cramp count? What level of pain does someone have to be in before ‘just a little bit of pain’ turns into an ‘injury’? That’s why I’d opt for 8 subs being allowed on the bench, but only three or four (I’d need to see the average number of injuries per game to decide which would be better) being allowed to actually come on (except for HIAs and blood replacements). It would then be up to the coaches how many and how early they make tactical substitutions, knowing that any more injuries after all three/four subs are used would mean the team going down to 14. It would also mean all forwards would need to have the fitness to play 80 minutes. 
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Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

I really don't to want to make light of this situation in any way shape or form and i honestly feel for ryan and his family but you don't get £400/£500 k a year to be a roofer or brickie you surely must go into rugby knowing the risks?

I think Marler said something quite relevant on that topic. He pointed out something along the lines of, he just wants to have all the information available to him, for him to make an informed decision as to whether to play the sport or not. When he came into the sport, that wasn't the case.
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Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Hits to the head are obviously a problem, however you can suffer a concussion without being hit on the head, and that's the issue. I remember being tackled head on once (there was no head contact) and was  stopped dead in my tracks. I certainly saw stars, and felt a little sick for few minutes, but carried on playing.

I remember once talking to an Wales & BI international who said that the hardest tackle he ever suffered was at St Helen's, and he was clear that it was a fair but hard tackle. His expereiance was the same as mine, seeing stars and feeling sick afterwards, he also said that there'd been no head contact in the tackle. 

In my humble experience therefore, head hits aren't the only issue. I think we need to go down to 5 subs, 3 front row and 2 backs, but substitutions scan only be made when there's an injury.
The problem with injury substitutions is what exactly counts as an ‘injury’? Does cramp count? What level of pain does someone have to be in before ‘just a little bit of pain’ turns into an ‘injury’? That’s why I’d opt for 8 subs being allowed on the bench, but only three or four (I’d need to see the average number of injuries per game to decide which would be better) being allowed to actually come on (except for HIAs and blood replacements). It would then be up to the coaches how many and how early they make tactical substitutions, knowing that any more injuries after all three/four subs are used would mean the team going down to 14. It would also mean all forwards would need to have the fitness to play 80 minutes. 

My suggestion was there for discussion, so I take your point entirely. 

Sadly there will always be cheats as we saw with 'bloodgate' and also the French in the 2017 6N match against Wales, when they hauled off Uini so they could bring back Slimani. Rob Evans was giving Uini a torrid time in the scrum. It only needed a penalty for Wales to kick the ball off the park for a win.
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Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

I really don't to want to make light of this situation in any way shape or form and i honestly feel for ryan and his family but you don't get £400/£500 k a year to be a roofer or brickie you surely must go into rugby knowing the risks?

I think Marler said something quite relevant on that topic. He pointed out something along the lines of, he just wants to have all the information available to him, for him to make an informed decision as to whether to play the sport or not. When he came into the sport, that wasn't the case.

It doesn’t take a genius to work out what problems it could cause. 
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Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Hits to the head are obviously a problem, however you can suffer a concussion without being hit on the head, and that's the issue. I remember being tackled head on once (there was no head contact) and was  stopped dead in my tracks. I certainly saw stars, and felt a little sick for few minutes, but carried on playing.

I remember once talking to an Wales & BI international who said that the hardest tackle he ever suffered was at St Helen's, and he was clear that it was a fair but hard tackle. His expereiance was the same as mine, seeing stars and feeling sick afterwards, he also said that there'd been no head contact in the tackle. 

In my humble experience therefore, head hits aren't the only issue. I think we need to go down to 5 subs, 3 front row and 2 backs, but substitutions scan only be made when there's an injury.
your v unlkely to get concussion with out head contact , you get winded , flattened but unless your head hits the ground or the player makes any contact with your head chin your not gonna get kod.you can still break ribs dislocate shoulders or basically get smashed and see stars but thats not a concussion is it? Still painful mind (see scott vs bod collision) gpod call re
Subs


Edited by RR1972 - 20 July 2022 at 9:34pm
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I do not profess to know much about concussion so won't attempt to add to that conversation. I do not recall ever experiencing being knocked out during my rugby days; indeed the worst knock I recieved to my head was playing cricket and mistiming an attempted hook off a decent quickie and top edging into my face resulting in a number of stitches and fantastic shiner. 

With regard to the subject of this thread I can only feel huge sympathy for what Ryan & his young family are going through. Unless some new treatment is unearthed his prognosis is indeed frightening. He & all the other sufferers of this awful illness deserve all the support available. On the fact that legal action is being taken against the WRU I believe that this will be a standard procedure in any class action - you go for the top of the pyramid who, in turn, will seek the support of their insurers. 

The inevitable result, of course, will be a huge ramping up of premiums or worst still wording in policies changed so that this sort of injury is not covered. For the sake of our game governing bodies need to re-assure all players that their best interests are being covered both in changes to rules and in providing suitable insurance/medical support. The alternative is unthinkable.
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I'm about the same age as the players impacted and to be honest at no point playing club rugby in my 20's (let alone teens) did I consider things like dementia, I'd be surprised if many amateur or pro rugby considered brain injuries as a risk up until the last few years.

I expected things like broken bones, stitches, ligament damage etc. which may result in a long term niggles but never the sort of thing players like Ryan Jones are now facing. People are now becoming aware of these sorts of risks, and the fact that there will be risks that we haven't linked or discovered yet.
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Agreed Gate12, I'm still plodding around the field now but I have never thought about dementia or any long term issues caused by concussion even though I have suffered a couple of bad ones. Worst one was after the ref removed me from the game for my safety & I was sat in the changing rooms, our physio came back in to check on me & I asked "Tell the coach I'll be out now for the warm up, how long till kick off".
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Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

I really don't to want to make light of this situation in any way shape or form and i honestly feel for ryan and his family but you don't get £400/£500 k a year to be a roofer or brickie you surely must go into rugby knowing the risks?

I think Marler said something quite relevant on that topic. He pointed out something along the lines of, he just wants to have all the information available to him, for him to make an informed decision as to whether to play the sport or not. When he came into the sport, that wasn't the case.

It doesn’t take a genius to work out what problems it could cause. 

I had no idea there is a direct link with concussion to CTE to Dementia. I imagine most people didn't know there appears to be a strong correlation. 
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This is desperately sad news. Gloucester lock Ed Slater has been diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease. No idea if it is linked to head knocks etc but still awful news
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Mnd is a shocker recently finished rob burrows book , terrible terrible illness
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Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

I think that there is an element of truth in that we’ve seen a lot more head injuries in the game since the game allowed players to be substituted for tactical reasons.
Going back only a decade or two, you never had a 23 match day squad, a complete front row replacement (at the 60 minute mark), a couple of bruising back rowers or centres ready to come onto the field in the later stages of the match just to scatter the opposition.
The game has become all about having the biggest players and the biggest squads and grinding down the opposition (battering them into submission).
Perhaps (as has been alluded to in this thread) we need to consider a return to small match day squads (that would also reduce the cost of the squad) and to a return to substitutions for injuries only.
With regards to Ryan, the diagnosis for him isn’t great, a consultant has stated that his case is one of the worst he’s come across.  I wish him luck, he’s been a great servant to welsh rugby and rugby needs to support players after they finish playing.

Thank you "legend"...that's a very balanced and sensible assessment...looking forward to the future.
changes HAVE to be made to the way the game is run ,including all the above suggestions and more.

My heart goes out to Ryan and his family. I look after my wife, who has early onset dementia, but he is a lot younger than her.
On top of that my daughter plays international rugby for wales, and I worry that one blow to her head or a succession of "big hits", could have a long lasting effect leading to brain injury and other things.
Rugby has always been a physical game, when I played, it was tough!   Players are  now however, bigger, faster , stronger and the impact of collisions huge. Regarding the women's game, they are also now professional, and the same criteria we have been discussion regarding speed and power applies ton them too.

Rugby remains a great game, to be enjoyed by all, but a lot of thinking needs to be done, to make it safer
I stood yer on tanner bank
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