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    Posted: 01 April 2025 at 1:20pm
I wonder if Saracens should face some penalty as their coach has openly said they are not going to send first team to Toulon this weekend. He has given his English internationals 7-10 days off to concentrate on the Premiership.
He had said that they stand no chance even if they were to win as they would probably face Toulouse in next round. 
Surely this is devaluing the best competition in Europe and there should be a sanction for there blatant disregard for the tournament. 

She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 1:39pm
Why?

Leinster don't face any penalties for basically having a league team and a European Cup team.

O'Driscoll and Sexton rarely played league games outside of Ireland.

Why is this only a thing now Saracens have suggested they may do it?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 1:47pm
The Ospreys rested certain players last weekend against us....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skyblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 1:52pm
I think he may regret saying what he was thinking of doing.

I may be wrong but I suspect money may have played a part in the decision.

Is the English domestic game more lucrative than the European cup?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by skyblue skyblue wrote:

I think he may regret saying what he was thinking of doing.

I may be wrong but I suspect money may have played a part in the decision.

Is the English domestic game more lucrative than the European cup?

Success in Europe is very poorly rewarded compared to the days of the Heineken Cup.

Sponsorship is well down in numbers, even ignoring inflation and real values over that time.

No idea what prize money is in England’s comp.
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 2:18pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Why?

Leinster don't face any penalties for basically having a league team and a European Cup team.

O'Driscoll and Sexton rarely played league games outside of Ireland.

Why is this only a thing now Saracens have suggested they may do it?
Because this is the first time I’ve ever heard a coach say something like this so openly. 
Leinster could pick three team to be competitive in league and Europe without weakening team. 
It’s nothing to do with who it is Saracens or us if we decided to play a weak side in Europe I would be livid. 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Why?

Leinster don't face any penalties for basically having a league team and a European Cup team.

O'Driscoll and Sexton rarely played league games outside of Ireland.

Why is this only a thing now Saracens have suggested they may do it?

Because this is the first time I’ve ever heard a coach say something like this so openly. 
Leinster could pick three team to be competitive in league and Europe without weakening team. 
It’s nothing to do with who it is Saracens or us if we decided to play a weak side in Europe I would be livid. 


We already did. Against Gloucester.

This happens alot. I don't get why you've only just noticed it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Why?

Leinster don't face any penalties for basically having a league team and a European Cup team.

O'Driscoll and Sexton rarely played league games outside of Ireland.

Why is this only a thing now Saracens have suggested they may do it?

Because this is the first time I’ve ever heard a coach say something like this so openly. 
Leinster could pick three team to be competitive in league and Europe without weakening team. 
It’s nothing to do with who it is Saracens or us if we decided to play a weak side in Europe I would be livid. 


We already did. Against Gloucester.

This happens alot. I don't get why you've only just noticed it.

Kid a is spot on. I think the Saracens coach should be applauded. He is governed in part by rules for his English contingent which states that they must get some rest within 3 weeks post the 6 nations. In McCall's view they stand a far better chance of winning something in the Premiership. Makes totals sense to me as Toulon sit 3rd in the pro 14 & Toulouse are 1st. Both are away games.

We have done it twice this season - first in Bayonne & secondly at Gloucester. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 3:41pm
This is likely down to England return to play protocols after the 6 Nations and the fact Saracens had their annual game at the Tottenham stadium on 22 March. What they have done I assume is opted for the European weekend as a mandatory six nations recovery week to ensure they had a full team out and playing for their biggest “home game “ when they got a crowd of around 60000  so from that angle it makes sense.

Edited by Kentexile - 01 April 2025 at 3:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 April 2025 at 3:42pm
I can’t remember Dwayne or any other coach saying he is resting players as we don’t have a chance of winning a game so we will concentrate on another competition. Europe should be the pinnacle of the game in the Northern hemisphere and be treated as such. 
The team v Gloucester was strong as was the Bayonne team. Not to play any of our Welsh internationals would mean carnage.
It’s akin to what happened when Ebbw Vale played in France and because the French team wanted to concentrate on league they were passing the ball to Ebbw Vale players and not bothering to tackle them. Cant remember who it was but was funny to watch. They got ban I believe. 

She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2025 at 6:54am
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

I can’t remember Dwayne or any other coach saying he is resting players as we don’t have a chance of winning a game so we will concentrate on another competition. Europe should be the pinnacle of the game in the Northern hemisphere and be treated as such. 
The team v Gloucester was strong as was the Bayonne team. Not to play any of our Welsh internationals would mean carnage.
It’s akin to what happened when Ebbw Vale played in France and because the French team wanted to concentrate on league they were passing the ball to Ebbw Vale players and not bothering to tackle them. Cant remember who it was but was funny to watch. They got ban I believe. 


Sadly Why the days of Europe being the pinnacle are long gone. Tighter budgets, smaller squads in England & Wales mean coaches have to be very selective. It will be interesting to see what squads the Bulls & Sharks send to France this weekend & also Gloucester who have form on resting their stars away from home in Europe. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2025 at 7:53am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

I can’t remember Dwayne or any other coach saying he is resting players as we don’t have a chance of winning a game so we will concentrate on another competition. Europe should be the pinnacle of the game in the Northern hemisphere and be treated as such. 
The team v Gloucester was strong as was the Bayonne team. Not to play any of our Welsh internationals would mean carnage.
It’s akin to what happened when Ebbw Vale played in France and because the French team wanted to concentrate on league they were passing the ball to Ebbw Vale players and not bothering to tackle them. Cant remember who it was but was funny to watch. They got ban I believe. 


Sadly Why the days of Europe being the pinnacle are long gone. Tighter budgets, smaller squads in England & Wales mean coaches have to be very selective. It will be interesting to see what squads the Bulls & Sharks send to France this weekend & also Gloucester who have form on resting their stars away from home in Europe. 
Agree on Europe but nothing to do with squad size. England internationals have to have a mandatory 1 week break after the 6 nations with Premiership teams being able to pick which week that is.Saracens weren’t going to go for the game at Tottenham stadium where 60000 supporters would be expecting to see their English contingent. That left a choice of either their game at Leicester last weekend or the Toulon game and they have taken the pragmatic decision of selecting their England players for the more winnable of the two - especially as the reward for beating Toulon would probably be an away game at Toulouse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2025 at 7:59am
Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

I can’t remember Dwayne or any other coach saying he is resting players as we don’t have a chance of winning a game so we will concentrate on another competition. Europe should be the pinnacle of the game in the Northern hemisphere and be treated as such. 
The team v Gloucester was strong as was the Bayonne team. Not to play any of our Welsh internationals would mean carnage.
It’s akin to what happened when Ebbw Vale played in France and because the French team wanted to concentrate on league they were passing the ball to Ebbw Vale players and not bothering to tackle them. Cant remember who it was but was funny to watch. They got ban I believe. 


Sadly Why the days of Europe being the pinnacle are long gone. Tighter budgets, smaller squads in England & Wales mean coaches have to be very selective. It will be interesting to see what squads the Bulls & Sharks send to France this weekend & also Gloucester who have form on resting their stars away from home in Europe. 
Agree on Europe but nothing to do with squad size. England internationals have to have a mandatory 1 week break after the 6 nations with Premiership teams being able to pick which week that is.Saracens weren’t going to go for the game at Tottenham stadium where 60000 supporters would be expecting to see their English contingent. That left a choice of either their game at Leicester last weekend or the Toulon game and they have taken the pragmatic decision of selecting their England players for the more winnable of the two - especially as the reward for beating Toulon would probably be an away game at Toulouse.

My comment about budget & squad size was not directly about Saracens more a general observation. Gloucester are flying high in the Premiership at the moment but they sent a very young, inexperienced squad to Vannes & got hammered. Squads like Leinster & Toulouse can fight on all fronts which is why the likely winners of the Champions Cup will come from those two squads along with perhaps Bordeaux. Gone are the days of the Premiership or Welsh teams even thinking they can compete. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kentexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2025 at 8:47am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

[QUOTE=Why]I can’t remember Dwayne or any other coach saying he is resting players as we don’t have a chance of winning a game so we will concentrate on another competition. Europe should be the pinnacle of the game in the Northern hemisphere and be treated as such. 
The team v Gloucester was strong as was the Bayonne team. Not to play any of our Welsh internationals would mean carnage.
It’s akin to what happened when Ebbw Vale played in France and because the French team wanted to concentrate on league they were passing the ball to Ebbw Vale players and not bothering to tackle them. Cant remember who it was but was funny to watch. They got ban I believe. 


Sadly Why the days of Europe being the pinnacle are long gone. Tighter budgets, smaller squads in England & Wales mean coaches have to be very selective. It will be interesting to see what squads the Bulls & Sharks send to France this weekend & also Gloucester who have form on resting their stars away from home in Europe. 
Agree on Europe but nothing to do with squad size. England internationals have to have a mandatory 1 week break after the 6 nations with Premiership teams being able to pick which week that is.Saracens weren’t going to go for the game at Tottenham stadium where 60000 supporters would be expecting to see their English contingent. That left a choice of either their game at Leicester last weekend or the Toulon game and they have taken the pragmatic decision of selecting their England players for the more winnable of the two - especially as the reward for beating Toulon would probably be an away game at Toulouse.

My comment about budget & squad size was not directly about Saracens more a general observation. Gloucester are flying high in the Premiership at the moment but they sent a very young, inexperienced squad to Vannes & got hammered. Squads like Leinster & Toulouse can fight on all fronts which is why the likely winners of the Champions Cup will come from those two squads along with perhaps Bordeaux. Gone are the days of the Premiership or Welsh teams even thinking they can compete. 
[/QUOTE
 English and French teams have tended to put out weakened sides in the group stages of the Challenge cup since it started . The present format doesn’t help and what most teams seemed to be doing this season is put out a close on full strength side for the home game and a weakened team away .Realistically there have only been a handful of sides at a point in time who were likely win the Champions cup  with the odd surprise like Ulster and Exeter but I agree since the Premiership started enforcing the salary cap ( Saracens run of success came when they were breaking Premiership but not European rules) the likely winner will be from the teams you mention or another other French team where the owner decides to invest heavily to win.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trostre Parc Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2025 at 9:44am
Remember last season when the Bulls rested their best players for a European frame.  The press slated them for disrespecting and not understanding European rugby!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 April 2025 at 4:14pm
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Europe should be the pinnacle of the game in the Northern hemisphere and be treated as such. 


Yeah it should be but it's not.

Because most teams can't come close to French temas and Irish state sponsored gerrymanderred teams with Union owned multiple entrants. So they focus on competing in tournemanets they can compete.

Hope it happens more so European rugby dies off. More chance of a new competition being formed that way.
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