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Scarlets v Sale match thread.

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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 9:50am
One final point has anyone see our back 3 all of whom are high class players with fine careers  behind them at a high level. All being caught out of position so much, halfpenny especially is normally  great at this aspect of the game, they played like strangers on the weekend. Very odd that. I would question our prep there it’s odd for all 3 of them to have a stinker in same game

Edited by RR1972 - 06 April 2021 at 9:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 9:55am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

One final point has anyone see our back 3 all of whom are high class with fine careers  behind them being caught out of position so much, halfpenny especially is normaly great at this aspect of the game, they played like strangers on the weekend. Very odd that
Seemed to be a big problem, not just for the back three but for everyone.  I've just looked at two of the tries scored by their 10.  The first was from OUR possession when Faff came flying through and caused a miss-pass.  If you look at how our backs are lined up, they're just not on the same page as each other and thats what caused the miss-pass more than Faff's run (good as that was). And the 10's second try when he dummied Steff Hughes - our defensive line was way to narrow causing a huge overlap out wide and it was that poor positioning that made it easy for the 10 to make the dummie. 

Edited by Rob o'r Bont - 06 April 2021 at 9:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 9:56am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

One final point has anyone see our back 3 all of whom are high class players with fine careers  behind them at a high level. All being caught out of position so much, halfpenny especially is normally  great at this aspect of the game, they played like strangers on the weekend. Very odd that. I would question our prep there it’s odd for all 3 of them to have a stinker in same game

Correct RR they looked totally clueless. I have to say regrettably that I have to question the motivation of the whole starting 15. Biggest game of the season, a great chance to reach a quarter final of the Champions Cup & they didn't fire a shot in anger in the first 30 minutes by which time the game was over. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 9:59am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

One final point has anyone see our back 3 all of whom are high class players with fine careers  behind them at a high level. All being caught out of position so much, halfpenny especially is normally  great at this aspect of the game, they played like strangers on the weekend. Very odd that. I would question our prep there it’s odd for all 3 of them to have a stinker in same game

Correct RR they looked totally clueless. I have to say regrettably that I have to question the motivation of the whole starting 15. Biggest game of the season, a great chance to reach a quarter final of the Champions Cup & they didn't fire a shot in anger in the first 30 minutes by which time the game was over. 
I tend to agree guys, and then you have players like Blacker coming on and showing real hunger and making a difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 10:09am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Kalamafoni is being double teamed by sides at the moment. 
A fact which our attack coach should be exploiting 
We're still still here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 10:10am
I’m worried that we will struggle in the rainbow cup. It wasn’t rocket science how Sale beat us & other teams will be licking their lips to have a crack at us. 

Someone alluded to it earlier, we looked sluggish & there was hardly any passion shown for the shirt. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 10:34am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I’m worried that we will struggle in the rainbow cup. It wasn’t rocket science how Sale beat us & other teams will be licking their lips to have a crack at us. 

Someone alluded to it earlier, we looked sluggish & there was hardly any passion shown for the shirt. 

In all honesty Fscarlet the Rainbow cup is not really a relevant competition. i accept the financial importance but a competition of 16 teams playing 6 games and trying to decide a winner is a bit of a nonsense. Our board need to make some tough decisions about our future pathway and then use these games to give our future carefully planned exposure. I don't mean throwing un-prepared young players in who are not near ready but give games to players who are close.

Firstly of course they need to remove the coaches who must be shell shocked by their failures. Perhaps promote academy guys to look after the remaining fixtures - new faces with new ideas are needed. Then select with the future in mind along the lines of :-

15. Tom Rogers 14. Steff Evans 13. Joe Roberts 12. Osian Knott 11. Conbeer 10. Costelow 9. Hardy
1. Steff Thomas 2. Ryan Elias 3. Javan 4. Morgan Jones 5. Rawlins 6. Kennedy 7. Dan Davis 8. Carwyn

16. Mathias 17. Daf Hughes 18. O'Connor 19. Jac Price 20. Iestyn Rees 21. Blacker 22. Dan 23. Tyler Morgan.

I appreciate some of these guys are currently on loan but recall them because we need them. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exkixu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 10:36am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by crj89 crj89 wrote:

The team has been far too inconsistent for far too long and are in a steady decline due to the management team. Players are in their prime and it's being wasted under this team of coaches.

We definitely need a seasoned pro coming in at 10, Patchell on his day is great but it's injury after injury the last couple of years. Dan Jones, I don't agree with earlier comments that he's RFC level but he's not good enough to be a stand in for Patchell.

I'm not worried about the loss of Jac Morgan, we have James Davies, Dan Davis and Macleod all outstanding talents and the reason behind the Ospreys signing Morgan last November.

Your second paragraph directly contradicts your first, at no other position than 10 no less. How many players are in their prime anyway? And then, when 2/3rds of your team is either in Wales camp or perma injured it is very difficult to achieve any kind of consistency, coaching failures notwithstanding.

We should be worried about lossing Morgan because he is a better player than Cubby, Davis and McLeod.

Cubby & certainly Josh would not have been manhandled by the Sale 6 like Jac was thats for sure. Exciting talent of course - finished article not yet. 

Cubby? The Cubby of 3/4 years ago would not have fared better yesterday. In his current form (injury/concussion notwithstanding) he's not even close. Josh, somewhere in between, but he is not better than Jac, who is only 21.
If you wan't to downplay his ability and potential because he's leaving, that's up to you.

Suggest you read my comments about Jac before you accuse me of downplaying his ability. My opinion is that you are downplaying Josh's ability so where does that get us??? You seem to also suggest that our performance has something to do with lack of preparation time - I find that absolute nonsense. Many of us believe, some for quite a long time, that Delaney & most of his coaching team are not up to the job. What is your opinion?

Josh is a fine player. I don't think he is better suited to play 7 for us than Jac at the moment and Jac will only get better.

Delaney & Co are not be up to the job but to think that that is the main reason why the Scarlets lost to Sale in such fashion and have been poor throughout the season is erroneous. We have been in a downward spiral for 2/3 years now, before Delaney came and Pivac was still in charge.  The same Pivac that has just won the 6N because, among other reasons, Wales has that availability and preparation time that the Scarlets lack. More preparation time in fact than other 6N teams.

You can't build any sort of momentum and continuity when 2/3rds of your squad is either injured or with Wales in the AIs or 6Ns. If you think Pat Lam, who enjoys a setup and resources at Bristol we can only dream of could turn this squad into knock out rugby contenders, then I think you are not only mistaken but in for a shock when/if Peel or the next head coach takes the reins.

Same for Scott Robertson, who coaches a team that has had a very clear filosophy for ages and is the most clinical side I've ever seen, year on year. Sure, they can lose the odd game like they did against the Highlanders last weekend but they have been the top Super Rugby team in NZ for years, and it all starts with a great pack with very good front rows and superb back five players.

Without lack of preparation time and availability of your best players, no coach in the world will make the Scarlets into trophy contenders.



Firstly I rate both Josh & Jac very highly. We must not forget that Josh is what 23 so has plenty of growth left in him and at around 110 kgs has that extra bulk so much needed for todays back rows. Your general point about lack of preparation & injury is fair but lets not forget that with very similar preparation time a team like Munster could go toe to toe with a Toulouse team brimming with quality French Internationals and selected quality imports. Sale for sure ain't no Toulouse. 

I honestly do not believe that our squad of players available for Sunday's game is any worse than those available for Munster. What is not in doubt is that their coaching team is light years ahead of ours & should concentrate the minds of our board when they meet up to consider the fall out from Sunday's capitulation against what in reality is a 2nd/3rd tier European team. 

Other than POM, did Munster have any other starters injured? 
They still lost.

If Sale is a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 2 starters missing on international duty, then we are a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 9 starters (23 squad) on international duty (both in November and during the 6N) on top of the worst injury list in many years.

Sure, the coaching staff doesn't help, but lets not pretend we are currently in a better situation than Sale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 10:41am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

I’m worried that we will struggle in the rainbow cup. It wasn’t rocket science how Sale beat us & other teams will be licking their lips to have a crack at us. 

Someone alluded to it earlier, we looked sluggish & there was hardly any passion shown for the shirt. 

In all honesty Fscarlet the Rainbow cup is not really a relevant competition. i accept the financial importance but a competition of 16 teams playing 6 games and trying to decide a winner is a bit of a nonsense. Our board need to make some tough decisions about our future pathway and then use these games to give our future carefully planned exposure. I don't mean throwing un-prepared young players in who are not near ready but give games to players who are close.

Firstly of course they need to remove the coaches who must be shell shocked by their failures. Perhaps promote academy guys to look after the remaining fixtures - new faces with new ideas are needed. Then select with the future in mind along the lines of :-

15. Tom Rogers 14. Steff Evans 13. Joe Roberts 12. Osian Knott 11. Conbeer 10. Costelow 9. Hardy
1. Steff Thomas 2. Ryan Elias 3. Javan 4. Morgan Jones 5. Rawlins 6. Kennedy 7. Dan Davis 8. Carwyn

16. Mathias 17. Daf Hughes 18. O'Connor 19. Jac Price 20. Iestyn Rees 21. Blacker 22. Dan 23. Tyler Morgan.

I appreciate some of these guys are currently on loan but recall them because we need them. 

It’s not an important competition but I can’t say hand on heart that I can definitely see us beating any of the other 3 regions let alone the other sides! So in a couple of months times we could be sat here in the same situation as we are now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 10:48am
Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by crj89 crj89 wrote:

The team has been far too inconsistent for far too long and are in a steady decline due to the management team. Players are in their prime and it's being wasted under this team of coaches.

We definitely need a seasoned pro coming in at 10, Patchell on his day is great but it's injury after injury the last couple of years. Dan Jones, I don't agree with earlier comments that he's RFC level but he's not good enough to be a stand in for Patchell.

I'm not worried about the loss of Jac Morgan, we have James Davies, Dan Davis and Macleod all outstanding talents and the reason behind the Ospreys signing Morgan last November.

Your second paragraph directly contradicts your first, at no other position than 10 no less. How many players are in their prime anyway? And then, when 2/3rds of your team is either in Wales camp or perma injured it is very difficult to achieve any kind of consistency, coaching failures notwithstanding.

We should be worried about lossing Morgan because he is a better player than Cubby, Davis and McLeod.

Cubby & certainly Josh would not have been manhandled by the Sale 6 like Jac was thats for sure. Exciting talent of course - finished article not yet. 

Cubby? The Cubby of 3/4 years ago would not have fared better yesterday. In his current form (injury/concussion notwithstanding) he's not even close. Josh, somewhere in between, but he is not better than Jac, who is only 21.
If you wan't to downplay his ability and potential because he's leaving, that's up to you.

Suggest you read my comments about Jac before you accuse me of downplaying his ability. My opinion is that you are downplaying Josh's ability so where does that get us??? You seem to also suggest that our performance has something to do with lack of preparation time - I find that absolute nonsense. Many of us believe, some for quite a long time, that Delaney & most of his coaching team are not up to the job. What is your opinion?

Josh is a fine player. I don't think he is better suited to play 7 for us than Jac at the moment and Jac will only get better.

Delaney & Co are not be up to the job but to think that that is the main reason why the Scarlets lost to Sale in such fashion and have been poor throughout the season is erroneous. We have been in a downward spiral for 2/3 years now, before Delaney came and Pivac was still in charge.  The same Pivac that has just won the 6N because, among other reasons, Wales has that availability and preparation time that the Scarlets lack. More preparation time in fact than other 6N teams.

You can't build any sort of momentum and continuity when 2/3rds of your squad is either injured or with Wales in the AIs or 6Ns. If you think Pat Lam, who enjoys a setup and resources at Bristol we can only dream of could turn this squad into knock out rugby contenders, then I think you are not only mistaken but in for a shock when/if Peel or the next head coach takes the reins.

Same for Scott Robertson, who coaches a team that has had a very clear filosophy for ages and is the most clinical side I've ever seen, year on year. Sure, they can lose the odd game like they did against the Highlanders last weekend but they have been the top Super Rugby team in NZ for years, and it all starts with a great pack with very good front rows and superb back five players.

Without lack of preparation time and availability of your best players, no coach in the world will make the Scarlets into trophy contenders.



Firstly I rate both Josh & Jac very highly. We must not forget that Josh is what 23 so has plenty of growth left in him and at around 110 kgs has that extra bulk so much needed for todays back rows. Your general point about lack of preparation & injury is fair but lets not forget that with very similar preparation time a team like Munster could go toe to toe with a Toulouse team brimming with quality French Internationals and selected quality imports. Sale for sure ain't no Toulouse. 

I honestly do not believe that our squad of players available for Sunday's game is any worse than those available for Munster. What is not in doubt is that their coaching team is light years ahead of ours & should concentrate the minds of our board when they meet up to consider the fall out from Sunday's capitulation against what in reality is a 2nd/3rd tier European team. 

Other than POM, did Munster have any other starters injured? 
They still lost.

If Sale is a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 2 starters missing on international duty, then we are a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 9 starters (23 squad) on international duty (both in November and during the 6N) on top of the worst injury list in many years.

Sure, the coaching staff doesn't help, but lets not pretend we are currently in a better situation than Sale.

Again please read my comments. I am not even trying to compare us with Sale. I am comparing us with Munster. We were missing Rhys Patchell & Samson Lee from our starting 15 - Foxy should have been selected as he was available but thats another story. Munster were missing O'Mahoney and their Springbok World Cup winning 2nd row from their best 15. You keep on citing how many were away with Wales and how many are injured. That is in reality a smokescreen excuse. Munster suffer the same with call ups, were missing two of their starting 15 like us and yes they lost by 7 points to Toulouse.

On the other hand we lost by 43 points to Sale. Would you care to predict what the scoreline would have been if Munster had played Sale. I will Munster to win by 10-15 points. The shocking display on Sunday was not down to an injury list, lack of time to prepare because of International call ups it was fairly & squarely down to a very poorly prepared and led team who showed total disrespect for the shirt and traditions of our club. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:12am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I thought morgan was our best forward ydAy (not a high bar granted) he’ll be a big loss 
He fell off a lot of tackles 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:18am
Apparently Sale had some 6-7 regular Saffas in their team including RWC Finalists  and were very powerful together. I gather Sale have about 10-11 Saffas in their squad which if correct is huge. Plainly English or U.K. player pathways aren’t a priority with them!! I assume the RFU don’t care! We were of course well beaten and they played like a settled team. We didn’t 🤨

Edited by reesytheexile - 06 April 2021 at 11:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Exkixu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:20am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by crj89 crj89 wrote:

The team has been far too inconsistent for far too long and are in a steady decline due to the management team. Players are in their prime and it's being wasted under this team of coaches.

We definitely need a seasoned pro coming in at 10, Patchell on his day is great but it's injury after injury the last couple of years. Dan Jones, I don't agree with earlier comments that he's RFC level but he's not good enough to be a stand in for Patchell.

I'm not worried about the loss of Jac Morgan, we have James Davies, Dan Davis and Macleod all outstanding talents and the reason behind the Ospreys signing Morgan last November.

Your second paragraph directly contradicts your first, at no other position than 10 no less. How many players are in their prime anyway? And then, when 2/3rds of your team is either in Wales camp or perma injured it is very difficult to achieve any kind of consistency, coaching failures notwithstanding.

We should be worried about lossing Morgan because he is a better player than Cubby, Davis and McLeod.

Cubby & certainly Josh would not have been manhandled by the Sale 6 like Jac was thats for sure. Exciting talent of course - finished article not yet. 

Cubby? The Cubby of 3/4 years ago would not have fared better yesterday. In his current form (injury/concussion notwithstanding) he's not even close. Josh, somewhere in between, but he is not better than Jac, who is only 21.
If you wan't to downplay his ability and potential because he's leaving, that's up to you.

Suggest you read my comments about Jac before you accuse me of downplaying his ability. My opinion is that you are downplaying Josh's ability so where does that get us??? You seem to also suggest that our performance has something to do with lack of preparation time - I find that absolute nonsense. Many of us believe, some for quite a long time, that Delaney & most of his coaching team are not up to the job. What is your opinion?

Josh is a fine player. I don't think he is better suited to play 7 for us than Jac at the moment and Jac will only get better.

Delaney & Co are not be up to the job but to think that that is the main reason why the Scarlets lost to Sale in such fashion and have been poor throughout the season is erroneous. We have been in a downward spiral for 2/3 years now, before Delaney came and Pivac was still in charge.  The same Pivac that has just won the 6N because, among other reasons, Wales has that availability and preparation time that the Scarlets lack. More preparation time in fact than other 6N teams.

You can't build any sort of momentum and continuity when 2/3rds of your squad is either injured or with Wales in the AIs or 6Ns. If you think Pat Lam, who enjoys a setup and resources at Bristol we can only dream of could turn this squad into knock out rugby contenders, then I think you are not only mistaken but in for a shock when/if Peel or the next head coach takes the reins.

Same for Scott Robertson, who coaches a team that has had a very clear filosophy for ages and is the most clinical side I've ever seen, year on year. Sure, they can lose the odd game like they did against the Highlanders last weekend but they have been the top Super Rugby team in NZ for years, and it all starts with a great pack with very good front rows and superb back five players.

Without lack of preparation time and availability of your best players, no coach in the world will make the Scarlets into trophy contenders.



Firstly I rate both Josh & Jac very highly. We must not forget that Josh is what 23 so has plenty of growth left in him and at around 110 kgs has that extra bulk so much needed for todays back rows. Your general point about lack of preparation & injury is fair but lets not forget that with very similar preparation time a team like Munster could go toe to toe with a Toulouse team brimming with quality French Internationals and selected quality imports. Sale for sure ain't no Toulouse. 

I honestly do not believe that our squad of players available for Sunday's game is any worse than those available for Munster. What is not in doubt is that their coaching team is light years ahead of ours & should concentrate the minds of our board when they meet up to consider the fall out from Sunday's capitulation against what in reality is a 2nd/3rd tier European team. 

Other than POM, did Munster have any other starters injured? 
They still lost.

If Sale is a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 2 starters missing on international duty, then we are a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 9 starters (23 squad) on international duty (both in November and during the 6N) on top of the worst injury list in many years.

Sure, the coaching staff doesn't help, but lets not pretend we are currently in a better situation than Sale.

Again please read my comments. I am not even trying to compare us with Sale. I am comparing us with Munster. We were missing Rhys Patchell & Samson Lee from our starting 15 - Foxy should have been selected as he was available but thats another story. Munster were missing O'Mahoney and their Springbok World Cup winning 2nd row from their best 15. You keep on citing how many were away with Wales and how many are injured. That is in reality a smokescreen excuse. Munster suffer the same with call ups, were missing two of their starting 15 like us and yes they lost by 7 points to Toulouse.

On the other hand we lost by 43 points to Sale. Would you care to predict what the scoreline would have been if Munster had played Sale. I will Munster to win by 10-15 points. The shocking display on Sunday was not down to an injury list, lack of time to prepare because of International call ups it was fairly & squarely down to a very poorly prepared and led team who showed total disrespect for the shirt and traditions of our club. 

So Rob Evs, Hardy and McLeod, whom you rate better than Jac, on top of Patchell and Samson would not start or be in the 23 squad? Right.

This team at its best, with few injuries and fewer international call ups, would stand a chance in knock out rugby, and that's how we won the Pro'12. A few more injuries/departures and international commitments and the chances decrease, and that's how we lost to Leinster in the HEC semi. As it is now, next to zero. And if you think this will be sorted by changing the coaching staff, well, you clearly weren't paying attention to Pivac's last year or many other seasons before them. 

And I'm off now. Discussing how much respect they showed for the shirt and traditions will lead us nowhere.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:34am
Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by crj89 crj89 wrote:

The team has been far too inconsistent for far too long and are in a steady decline due to the management team. Players are in their prime and it's being wasted under this team of coaches.

We definitely need a seasoned pro coming in at 10, Patchell on his day is great but it's injury after injury the last couple of years. Dan Jones, I don't agree with earlier comments that he's RFC level but he's not good enough to be a stand in for Patchell.

I'm not worried about the loss of Jac Morgan, we have James Davies, Dan Davis and Macleod all outstanding talents and the reason behind the Ospreys signing Morgan last November.

Your second paragraph directly contradicts your first, at no other position than 10 no less. How many players are in their prime anyway? And then, when 2/3rds of your team is either in Wales camp or perma injured it is very difficult to achieve any kind of consistency, coaching failures notwithstanding.

We should be worried about lossing Morgan because he is a better player than Cubby, Davis and McLeod.

Cubby & certainly Josh would not have been manhandled by the Sale 6 like Jac was thats for sure. Exciting talent of course - finished article not yet. 

Cubby? The Cubby of 3/4 years ago would not have fared better yesterday. In his current form (injury/concussion notwithstanding) he's not even close. Josh, somewhere in between, but he is not better than Jac, who is only 21.
If you wan't to downplay his ability and potential because he's leaving, that's up to you.

Suggest you read my comments about Jac before you accuse me of downplaying his ability. My opinion is that you are downplaying Josh's ability so where does that get us??? You seem to also suggest that our performance has something to do with lack of preparation time - I find that absolute nonsense. Many of us believe, some for quite a long time, that Delaney & most of his coaching team are not up to the job. What is your opinion?

Josh is a fine player. I don't think he is better suited to play 7 for us than Jac at the moment and Jac will only get better.

Delaney & Co are not be up to the job but to think that that is the main reason why the Scarlets lost to Sale in such fashion and have been poor throughout the season is erroneous. We have been in a downward spiral for 2/3 years now, before Delaney came and Pivac was still in charge.  The same Pivac that has just won the 6N because, among other reasons, Wales has that availability and preparation time that the Scarlets lack. More preparation time in fact than other 6N teams.

You can't build any sort of momentum and continuity when 2/3rds of your squad is either injured or with Wales in the AIs or 6Ns. If you think Pat Lam, who enjoys a setup and resources at Bristol we can only dream of could turn this squad into knock out rugby contenders, then I think you are not only mistaken but in for a shock when/if Peel or the next head coach takes the reins.

Same for Scott Robertson, who coaches a team that has had a very clear filosophy for ages and is the most clinical side I've ever seen, year on year. Sure, they can lose the odd game like they did against the Highlanders last weekend but they have been the top Super Rugby team in NZ for years, and it all starts with a great pack with very good front rows and superb back five players.

Without lack of preparation time and availability of your best players, no coach in the world will make the Scarlets into trophy contenders.



Firstly I rate both Josh & Jac very highly. We must not forget that Josh is what 23 so has plenty of growth left in him and at around 110 kgs has that extra bulk so much needed for todays back rows. Your general point about lack of preparation & injury is fair but lets not forget that with very similar preparation time a team like Munster could go toe to toe with a Toulouse team brimming with quality French Internationals and selected quality imports. Sale for sure ain't no Toulouse. 

I honestly do not believe that our squad of players available for Sunday's game is any worse than those available for Munster. What is not in doubt is that their coaching team is light years ahead of ours & should concentrate the minds of our board when they meet up to consider the fall out from Sunday's capitulation against what in reality is a 2nd/3rd tier European team. 

Other than POM, did Munster have any other starters injured? 
They still lost.

If Sale is a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 2 starters missing on international duty, then we are a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 9 starters (23 squad) on international duty (both in November and during the 6N) on top of the worst injury list in many years.

Sure, the coaching staff doesn't help, but lets not pretend we are currently in a better situation than Sale.

Again please read my comments. I am not even trying to compare us with Sale. I am comparing us with Munster. We were missing Rhys Patchell & Samson Lee from our starting 15 - Foxy should have been selected as he was available but thats another story. Munster were missing O'Mahoney and their Springbok World Cup winning 2nd row from their best 15. You keep on citing how many were away with Wales and how many are injured. That is in reality a smokescreen excuse. Munster suffer the same with call ups, were missing two of their starting 15 like us and yes they lost by 7 points to Toulouse.

On the other hand we lost by 43 points to Sale. Would you care to predict what the scoreline would have been if Munster had played Sale. I will Munster to win by 10-15 points. The shocking display on Sunday was not down to an injury list, lack of time to prepare because of International call ups it was fairly & squarely down to a very poorly prepared and led team who showed total disrespect for the shirt and traditions of our club. 

So Rob Evs, Hardy and McLeod, whom you rate better than Jac, on top of Patchell and Samson would not start or be in the 23 squad? Right.

This team at its best, with few injuries and fewer international call ups, would stand a chance in knock out rugby, and that's how we won the Pro'12. A few more injuries/departures and international commitments and the chances decrease, and that's how we lost to Leinster in the HEC semi. As it is now, next to zero. And if you think this will be sorted by changing the coaching staff, well, you clearly weren't paying attention to Pivac's last year or many other seasons before them. 

And I'm off now. Discussing how much respect they showed for the shirt and traditions will lead us nowhere.
 


There you go again not reading my post. Where did I say I thought Josh better than Jac? I did say his extra bulk would have helped him not get pushed around by the Sale 6. Rob is not 1st choice Wyn is; Hardy is not first choice Cawdor is; Jac's form this season make it a very close call. Yes the players you have named would have featured on our bench for sure but by the time our bench were deployed our embarrassment was complete.

If you think that our starting 15 did not let the club down then that is your prerogative; as for getting us nowhere I disagree - until we have a no excuse culture at our club and rid ourselves of this "we are playing at a disdavantage due to call ups/injuries/refs" then we will continue to see the dross served up last Sunday made even worse by supporters who are prepared to make excuses where none exist. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:35am
Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Exkixu Exkixu wrote:

Originally posted by crj89 crj89 wrote:

The team has been far too inconsistent for far too long and are in a steady decline due to the management team. Players are in their prime and it's being wasted under this team of coaches.

We definitely need a seasoned pro coming in at 10, Patchell on his day is great but it's injury after injury the last couple of years. Dan Jones, I don't agree with earlier comments that he's RFC level but he's not good enough to be a stand in for Patchell.

I'm not worried about the loss of Jac Morgan, we have James Davies, Dan Davis and Macleod all outstanding talents and the reason behind the Ospreys signing Morgan last November.

Your second paragraph directly contradicts your first, at no other position than 10 no less. How many players are in their prime anyway? And then, when 2/3rds of your team is either in Wales camp or perma injured it is very difficult to achieve any kind of consistency, coaching failures notwithstanding.

We should be worried about lossing Morgan because he is a better player than Cubby, Davis and McLeod.

Cubby & certainly Josh would not have been manhandled by the Sale 6 like Jac was thats for sure. Exciting talent of course - finished article not yet. 

Cubby? The Cubby of 3/4 years ago would not have fared better yesterday. In his current form (injury/concussion notwithstanding) he's not even close. Josh, somewhere in between, but he is not better than Jac, who is only 21.
If you wan't to downplay his ability and potential because he's leaving, that's up to you.

Suggest you read my comments about Jac before you accuse me of downplaying his ability. My opinion is that you are downplaying Josh's ability so where does that get us??? You seem to also suggest that our performance has something to do with lack of preparation time - I find that absolute nonsense. Many of us believe, some for quite a long time, that Delaney & most of his coaching team are not up to the job. What is your opinion?

Josh is a fine player. I don't think he is better suited to play 7 for us than Jac at the moment and Jac will only get better.

Delaney & Co are not be up to the job but to think that that is the main reason why the Scarlets lost to Sale in such fashion and have been poor throughout the season is erroneous. We have been in a downward spiral for 2/3 years now, before Delaney came and Pivac was still in charge.  The same Pivac that has just won the 6N because, among other reasons, Wales has that availability and preparation time that the Scarlets lack. More preparation time in fact than other 6N teams.

You can't build any sort of momentum and continuity when 2/3rds of your squad is either injured or with Wales in the AIs or 6Ns. If you think Pat Lam, who enjoys a setup and resources at Bristol we can only dream of could turn this squad into knock out rugby contenders, then I think you are not only mistaken but in for a shock when/if Peel or the next head coach takes the reins.

Same for Scott Robertson, who coaches a team that has had a very clear filosophy for ages and is the most clinical side I've ever seen, year on year. Sure, they can lose the odd game like they did against the Highlanders last weekend but they have been the top Super Rugby team in NZ for years, and it all starts with a great pack with very good front rows and superb back five players.

Without lack of preparation time and availability of your best players, no coach in the world will make the Scarlets into trophy contenders.



Firstly I rate both Josh & Jac very highly. We must not forget that Josh is what 23 so has plenty of growth left in him and at around 110 kgs has that extra bulk so much needed for todays back rows. Your general point about lack of preparation & injury is fair but lets not forget that with very similar preparation time a team like Munster could go toe to toe with a Toulouse team brimming with quality French Internationals and selected quality imports. Sale for sure ain't no Toulouse. 

I honestly do not believe that our squad of players available for Sunday's game is any worse than those available for Munster. What is not in doubt is that their coaching team is light years ahead of ours & should concentrate the minds of our board when they meet up to consider the fall out from Sunday's capitulation against what in reality is a 2nd/3rd tier European team. 

Other than POM, did Munster have any other starters injured? 
They still lost.

If Sale is a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 2 starters missing on international duty, then we are a 2nd/3rd tier European team that had 9 starters (23 squad) on international duty (both in November and during the 6N) on top of the worst injury list in many years.

Sure, the coaching staff doesn't help, but lets not pretend we are currently in a better situation than Sale.

Again please read my comments. I am not even trying to compare us with Sale. I am comparing us with Munster. We were missing Rhys Patchell & Samson Lee from our starting 15 - Foxy should have been selected as he was available but thats another story. Munster were missing O'Mahoney and their Springbok World Cup winning 2nd row from their best 15. You keep on citing how many were away with Wales and how many are injured. That is in reality a smokescreen excuse. Munster suffer the same with call ups, were missing two of their starting 15 like us and yes they lost by 7 points to Toulouse.

On the other hand we lost by 43 points to Sale. Would you care to predict what the scoreline would have been if Munster had played Sale. I will Munster to win by 10-15 points. The shocking display on Sunday was not down to an injury list, lack of time to prepare because of International call ups it was fairly & squarely down to a very poorly prepared and led team who showed total disrespect for the shirt and traditions of our club. 

So Rob Evs, Hardy and McLeod, whom you rate better than Jac, on top of Patchell and Samson would not start or be in the 23 squad? Right.

This team at its best, with few injuries and fewer international call ups, would stand a chance in knock out rugby, and that's how we won the Pro'12. A few more injuries/departures and international commitments and the chances decrease, and that's how we lost to Leinster in the HEC semi. As it is now, next to zero. And if you think this will be sorted by changing the coaching staff, well, you clearly weren't paying attention to Pivac's last year or many other seasons before them. 

And I'm off now. Discussing how much respect they showed for the shirt and traditions will lead us nowhere.
 

Your points are valid but it still doesn’t excuse getting stuffed by 50 odd points at home to Sale. The Scarlets had 605 caps in comparison to Sale’s 166 caps. You’d expect them to be a bit rusty but such a heavy defeat suggest deeper problems 

Edited by scarletnut - 06 April 2021 at 11:35am
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote M.M. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 April 2021 at 11:41am
Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

One final point has anyone see our back 3 all of whom are high class players with fine careers  behind them at a high level. All being caught out of position so much, halfpenny especially is normally  great at this aspect of the game, they played like strangers on the weekend. Very odd that. I would question our prep there it’s odd for all 3 of them to have a stinker in same game

Correct RR they looked totally clueless. I have to say regrettably that I have to question the motivation of the whole starting 15. Biggest game of the season, a great chance to reach a quarter final of the Champions Cup & they didn't fire a shot in anger in the first 30 minutes by which time the game was over. 
I tend to agree guys, and then you have players like Blacker coming on and showing real hunger and making a difference.

Agree, Rob. Dane played very well; injected a bit of impetus & energy which was lacking up till then.
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