Scotland v Ireland

roy munster wrote: why are wales and the welsh rugby union and the regions so far behind the Irish? This pattern is looking set in stone now...why? How do we change it?

I've already answered this partly. If you want to match the Irish you need to:

*Get state sponsored rugby. Welsh government giving out tens of millions to our pro clubs for stadiums and infrastructure.
*The WRU takes ownership of the 4 pro clubs, funding all player contracts, servicing all debt.
*A rugby performance director that oversees the depth of every single position in pro rugby and has responsibility for moving players within each of the 4 teams and refusing certain signings for each pro club.
*A cohort of world class overseas project players (from Aus, NZ or SA) that will be eligible for Wales for years to come.
*A fee paying school system setup in Cardiff where the WRU works with the Schools to finance and facilitate an elite pathway programme, where 12 year olds are coached to the highest standards in the world.
*A deal with the Welsh FA to share stadium costs of the principality stadium, run by a management company separate to both organisations.



That's what they have. Now, what are the chances of recreating this in Wales?

GPR - Rochester wrote: scarletpimp wrote: I have said many times Scarletfever , us indeed a learning tool, and consequently on this thread alone, I have learned a great deal about the funding processes elsewhere  , if which I knew nothing. All the Irish teams clearly  have an advantage,  but I do'nt think we should be beating with them with a stick with an anti Irish comments. If our own union did the same, we would all be happy We  also have these accusations  of 'cheating".  In my view, its playing the game as far to the line as you can go. Peter O' Mahnoney is prime example here, doing exactly what players like Martin  Johnson and Richie McCaw have always done. It's up to the officials,  and goodness knows there enough scrutiny now , which there wasn't before.  WHY has commented on " arrogance", and as I said  previously , when your winning some followers, quite wrongly,  fall into the " arrogance trap" , which us never good sadly. WHY is a dedicted Scarlets  fan, with considerable experience of travelling . If he has experienced  arrogance, then I am sad to learn about it. It has NEVER been my experience  of meeting Irish fans and enjoying their  company. Finally, I wish to add that I'm have noticed over many years, any group  or team that is successful,  is sometimes targeted by petty jealousy . This happened to the incredibly  successful  Llanelli  Youth team of the 70"s,  who were frequently  tarnished with the accusation of " poaching players ". This simply was not true and players came of their own free will. Since the advent of social  media people of course can make accusations with impunity.Some are outrageous.. On Scarletfever therefore,  we need to be careful of castigation through generalities.  "Arrogance", " Cheating " etc, are not nice things to brandish anyone. I am really proud to share  this forum,  with so many genuine Scarlets  fans  , whose passion abd dedication speaks volumes. No one wants to infringe on anyone's free speech ( this is a forum), but negative  trends  to mirror platforms like X are regrettable. In my view,  we have to  grudgingly admire what Irelabd are achieving , and hope inthe distant  future,  we can match it. A lot of what you say about Ireland is spot on Mark. However this thread has developed over a specific comment by our Irish friend Cathan. "The ironic part in all this is Ireland are probably the nation saving rugby in the NH." That comment has drawn some responses which challenge his notion. As good as Ireland are at the moment historically they have not been as successful as Wales for example. However he continues to double down on his theory.  History should have taught him the lessons which Wales are currently learning at their cost. Its no good waiting until players are in their final season/s at the top before you identify/blood their successors. An example being scrum half. Gibson-Park & Murray are 33 & 36 yet he identifies the answer as Craig Casey. Now Casey is a decent 9 but Gibson-Park he is not & who goes to the bench. Most of the names he has suggested would take the place of the 12 first 23 players I identified would have a job on their hands making the Welsh squad at the moment.  Coming on to the finance aspect Kid A in fairness has consistently drawn the comparisons which you cannot dispute. You have 4 regions controlled by the IRFU. There is no comparison between Ireland & France. Despite Ireland apparently saving Northern Hemisphere when was the last time an Irish side won the Champions Cup. Sour grapes no doubt will come the response but I have always praised the way Ireland approach the gameplan & their execution. My overriding feeling for 12 months now is that they are at or near their peak & will start to slide when over the next few seasons stalwarts who have close to/over 100 caps start to retire. Just an observation on my part.

Cathan wrote: GPR - Rochester wrote: scarletpimp wrote: I have said many times Scarletfever , us indeed a learning tool, and consequently on this thread alone, I have learned a great deal about the funding processes elsewhere  , if which I knew nothing. All the Irish teams clearly  have an advantage,  but I do'nt think we should be beating with them with a stick with an anti Irish comments. If our own union did the same, we would all be happy We  also have these accusations  of 'cheating".  In my view, its playing the game as far to the line as you can go. Peter O' Mahnoney is prime example here, doing exactly what players like Martin  Johnson and Richie McCaw have always done. It's up to the officials,  and goodness knows there enough scrutiny now , which there wasn't before.  WHY has commented on " arrogance", and as I said  previously , when your winning some followers, quite wrongly,  fall into the " arrogance trap" , which us never good sadly. WHY is a dedicted Scarlets  fan, with considerable experience of travelling . If he has experienced  arrogance, then I am sad to learn about it. It has NEVER been my experience  of meeting Irish fans and enjoying their  company. Finally, I wish to add that I'm have noticed over many years, any group  or team that is successful,  is sometimes targeted by petty jealousy . This happened to the incredibly  successful  Llanelli  Youth team of the 70"s,  who were frequently  tarnished with the accusation of " poaching players ". This simply was not true and players came of their own free will. Since the advent of social  media people of course can make accusations with impunity.Some are outrageous.. On Scarletfever therefore,  we need to be careful of castigation through generalities.  "Arrogance", " Cheating " etc, are not nice things to brandish anyone. I am really proud to share  this forum,  with so many genuine Scarlets  fans  , whose passion abd dedication speaks volumes. No one wants to infringe on anyone's free speech ( this is a forum), but negative  trends  to mirror platforms like X are regrettable. In my view,  we have to  grudgingly admire what Irelabd are achieving , and hope inthe distant  future,  we can match it. A lot of what you say about Ireland is spot on Mark. However this thread has developed over a specific comment by our Irish friend Cathan. "The ironic part in all this is Ireland are probably the nation saving rugby in the NH." That comment has drawn some responses which challenge his notion. As good as Ireland are at the moment historically they have not been as successful as Wales for example. However he continues to double down on his theory.  History should have taught him the lessons which Wales are currently learning at their cost. Its no good waiting until players are in their final season/s at the top before you identify/blood their successors. An example being scrum half. Gibson-Park & Murray are 33 & 36 yet he identifies the answer as Craig Casey. Now Casey is a decent 9 but Gibson-Park he is not & who goes to the bench. Most of the names he has suggested would take the place of the 12 first 23 players I identified would have a job on their hands making the Welsh squad at the moment.  Coming on to the finance aspect Kid A in fairness has consistently drawn the comparisons which you cannot dispute. You have 4 regions controlled by the IRFU. There is no comparison between Ireland & France. Despite Ireland apparently saving Northern Hemisphere when was the last time an Irish side won the Champions Cup. Sour grapes no doubt will come the response but I have always praised the way Ireland approach the gameplan & their execution. My overriding feeling for 12 months now is that they are at or near their peak & will start to slide when over the next few seasons stalwarts who have close to/over 100 caps start to retire. Just an observation on my part. Ive already explained the reasons why Ireland are saving NH rugby. All the players I mentioned would easily start for Wales and most would be in or around the Lions squad if they weren't handicapped by the fact the player ahead of them in their position is world class and the fail to get any exposure. Casey for instance is easily the 2nd or 3rd best 9 the Lions have but sadly his injuries and being behind JGP will likely cost him a spot on the Lions. Players like Osborne and Baird are also unbelievable players also, we saw both in the summer when Ireland got to rotate them in just how great they are. Thinking the players mentioned would struggle to make a Wales squad just shows you're lack of knowledge of these players.  Okay resorting the CC wins now, case closed

KID A wrote: I hope Cathan continues to post. It's particularly good exposure to the headspace and personality of the modern day Irish rugby fan.

Differing opinions are the lifeblood of this forum.

GPR - Rochester wrote: Cathan wrote: GPR - Rochester wrote: scarletpimp wrote: I have said many times Scarletfever , us indeed a learning tool, and consequently on this thread alone, I have learned a great deal about the funding processes elsewhere  , if which I knew nothing. All the Irish teams clearly  have an advantage,  but I do'nt think we should be beating with them with a stick with an anti Irish comments. If our own union did the same, we would all be happy We  also have these accusations  of 'cheating".  In my view, its playing the game as far to the line as you can go. Peter O' Mahnoney is prime example here, doing exactly what players like Martin  Johnson and Richie McCaw have always done. It's up to the officials,  and goodness knows there enough scrutiny now , which there wasn't before.  WHY has commented on " arrogance", and as I said  previously , when your winning some followers, quite wrongly,  fall into the " arrogance trap" , which us never good sadly. WHY is a dedicted Scarlets  fan, with considerable experience of travelling . If he has experienced  arrogance, then I am sad to learn about it. It has NEVER been my experience  of meeting Irish fans and enjoying their  company. Finally, I wish to add that I'm have noticed over many years, any group  or team that is successful,  is sometimes targeted by petty jealousy . This happened to the incredibly  successful  Llanelli  Youth team of the 70"s,  who were frequently  tarnished with the accusation of " poaching players ". This simply was not true and players came of their own free will. Since the advent of social  media people of course can make accusations with impunity.Some are outrageous.. On Scarletfever therefore,  we need to be careful of castigation through generalities.  "Arrogance", " Cheating " etc, are not nice things to brandish anyone. I am really proud to share  this forum,  with so many genuine Scarlets  fans  , whose passion abd dedication speaks volumes. No one wants to infringe on anyone's free speech ( this is a forum), but negative  trends  to mirror platforms like X are regrettable. In my view,  we have to  grudgingly admire what Irelabd are achieving , and hope inthe distant  future,  we can match it. A lot of what you say about Ireland is spot on Mark. However this thread has developed over a specific comment by our Irish friend Cathan. "The ironic part in all this is Ireland are probably the nation saving rugby in the NH." That comment has drawn some responses which challenge his notion. As good as Ireland are at the moment historically they have not been as successful as Wales for example. However he continues to double down on his theory.  History should have taught him the lessons which Wales are currently learning at their cost. Its no good waiting until players are in their final season/s at the top before you identify/blood their successors. An example being scrum half. Gibson-Park & Murray are 33 & 36 yet he identifies the answer as Craig Casey. Now Casey is a decent 9 but Gibson-Park he is not & who goes to the bench. Most of the names he has suggested would take the place of the 12 first 23 players I identified would have a job on their hands making the Welsh squad at the moment.  Coming on to the finance aspect Kid A in fairness has consistently drawn the comparisons which you cannot dispute. You have 4 regions controlled by the IRFU. There is no comparison between Ireland & France. Despite Ireland apparently saving Northern Hemisphere when was the last time an Irish side won the Champions Cup. Sour grapes no doubt will come the response but I have always praised the way Ireland approach the gameplan & their execution. My overriding feeling for 12 months now is that they are at or near their peak & will start to slide when over the next few seasons stalwarts who have close to/over 100 caps start to retire. Just an observation on my part. Ive already explained the reasons why Ireland are saving NH rugby. All the players I mentioned would easily start for Wales and most would be in or around the Lions squad if they weren't handicapped by the fact the player ahead of them in their position is world class and the fail to get any exposure. Casey for instance is easily the 2nd or 3rd best 9 the Lions have but sadly his injuries and being behind JGP will likely cost him a spot on the Lions. Players like Osborne and Baird are also unbelievable players also, we saw both in the summer when Ireland got to rotate them in just how great they are. Thinking the players mentioned would struggle to make a Wales squad just shows you're lack of knowledge of these players.  Okay resorting the CC wins now, case closed  OK case closed because Cathan doesn't like the answer to my question which may call into question whether Ireland are saving NH rugby - never mind. Try this one - Aki - Osborne  Bealham - Clarkson O'Mahony - Baird Healy - Boyle Murray - Casey Those were the choices you advised & you have gone even further by suggesting that Osbourne, Baird & Casey would be Lions if it wasn't for the fact the players ahead of them were so good. Well I can only assume that Farrell knows full well their talents so lets see if he selects them for the Lions. Of the 5 named I stick by my view that none would make the Welsh squad.

To those that think Irelands current position is just a flash in the pan, look at their performance in the U20 6N Champoinship over the last number of years and you will see the number of young players who are coming through.

Lets face it Ireland is about as close as a blueprint as we can get in welsh rugby...Theyre a booming success at all levels and its only about the 5th most popular sport in Ireland

aber-fan wrote: Coming to this just after posting in praise of Munster and their home grown squad for Saturday's game, as opposed to ours which has a number of imports. Can't be bothered to read back the many posts leading up to this, so just a few neutral-ish observations: Is Irish rugby in a better place than Welsh rugby ATM? Obviously - yes. Are Ireland to be praised for developing home-grown talent? Yes. Are some second choices for Ireland deserving of places on the Lions squad? IMO - yes - for example, Doris and Conan.  Do Ireland nevertheless benefit from some high quality 'imports'? Obviously - yes again: Aki, Gibson-Park, Hansen, Lowe. There may be others, but all test sides do this nowadays. Does anyone benefit from name-calling? Clearly - no. Let's just keep it cool and polite. We can maybe learn from the Irish system, though I'm not sure if we have the same degree of government financial backing.  We certainly need to do something to catch up, though.