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dyniol53 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2022 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

President drakeford would run wales into the ground within 12 months. Let’s give some tee total sport hating ex social worker the keys to our financial future. Mind you boris is no better what a time to be aliveWink

You said it better than me in 4 lines 😅
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2022 at 1:28pm
I'm the child of a history teacher who was born pre-war. My grandparents lived through the Great War. My Gran remembered Zeppelins over London and lost her brother in the Battle of Britain. She was in fact a massive admirer of Thatcher. My great-grandfather was wounded at Gallipoli. He was still alive when I was a child. An awareness of history has always been prominent in my family. So my views on the British Empire are informed by more than my schooling. 

I'm certainly no Drakeford fanboy but I'm not going to be drawn into the tribal divisions that have taken place along "culture-war" lines (what we used to call a difference of opinion) that some jump on in their criticism of him. 

Welsh Statehood goes far beyond which person is the head of our Government. It is entirely about building better government which works for Wales. I stand by the principle of democratic self-determination. IMHO that's best served by statehood. The health of our democracy will be best served by popular political engagement. I agree to an extent with Dyniol. The UK under devo is a bit of a mess. I'd rather independence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2022 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

The health of our democracy will be best served by popular political engagement. 

I disagree with this bit specifically 


It is widely believed that democracies require knowledgeable citizens to function well. But the most politically knowledgeable individuals tend to be the most partisan and the strength of partisan identity tends to corrupt political thinking. This creates a conundrum. On the one hand, an informed citizenry is allegedly necessary for a democracy to flourish. On the other hand, the most knowledgeable and passionate voters are also the most likely to think in corrupted, biased ways. What to do?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2022 at 3:00pm
By a "democracy" do you mean a country where you are allowed to vote every 4 years for almost identical neo-liberal economies and every other possibility is crucified by the billionaire and state controlled media?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2022 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

By a "democracy" do you mean a country where you are allowed to vote every 4 years for almost identical neo-liberal economies and every other possibility is crucified by the billionaire and state controlled media?

No. In the same way that free markets do not mean oligarchies, monopolies and the dumping of negative externalities. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2022 at 3:20pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

The health of our democracy will be best served by popular political engagement. 

I disagree with this bit specifically 


It is widely believed that democracies require knowledgeable citizens to function well. But the most politically knowledgeable individuals tend to be the most partisan and the strength of partisan identity tends to corrupt political thinking. This creates a conundrum. On the one hand, an informed citizenry is allegedly necessary for a democracy to flourish. On the other hand, the most knowledgeable and passionate voters are also the most likely to think in corrupted, biased ways. What to do?

You're talking about activists. Most citizens aren't activists.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 January 2022 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

By a "democracy" do you mean a country where you are allowed to vote every 4 years for almost identical neo-liberal economies and every other possibility is crucified by the billionaire and state controlled media?

I know it must be v frustrating for you to vote Tory only to get 4 more years of Labour policies but you can always vote ukip Dai Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 January 2022 at 10:19pm
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2022 at 7:30am
Johnson's incompetence influencing events elsewhere:

"Commons leader Jacob Rees-Mogg said those who were calling for Mr Johnson were "people who are always unhappy" and dismissed Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross as "quite a lightweight figure".

The Conservative MP for Brigg and Goole, Andrew Percy, criticised Mr Rees-Mogg's comments, saying: "As someone who apparently loves the Union, his personal attack on Douglas... is a gift to the petty nationalists in the SNP who want to break this country up."


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59972859


19 Tory MSP's calling for Boris to go.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2022 at 6:43pm
Rees Mogge’s comments about the Scottish Tory leader in Westminster being lightweight etc, will only add to the SMP’s case for a new Scottish independent referendum.  His comments will probably lead to the conservatives losing a lot of their Scottish seats in the next general election along with a load of seats at the Scottish Parliament, that would make it harder for the Tory party in the Scottish parliament to block any votes for a new referendum (giving Nicola Sturgeons a massive majority).
He’s also made another gaffe today with regards to the leader of the Welsh Conservatives in the WAG.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2022 at 7:51pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Rees Mogge’s comments about the Scottish Tory leader in Westminster being lightweight etc, will only add to the SMP’s case for a new Scottish independent referendum.  His comments will probably lead to the conservatives losing a lot of their Scottish seats in the next general election along with a load of seats at the Scottish Parliament, that would make it harder for the Tory party in the Scottish parliament to block any votes for a new referendum (giving Nicola Sturgeons a massive majority).
He’s also made another gaffe today with regards to the leader of the Welsh Conservatives in the WAG.

Yes, saw that one. Arty's getting ripped on that one atm.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 January 2022 at 8:08pm
An interesting article. https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/the-people-who-would-free-the-north-307945/ Whatever people think about it, it touches on one key point. The Westminster model of governance, what it has made of the UK state, is utterly rotten. Is it enought to shrug our shoulders and say that it's out of our hands, that this is the way things are, that we can't change anything? Can anyone, hand on heart, envisage any meaningful reform of this state that will bring an end to the deep structural inequalities that blights life on this island? I'm of the opinion that this state is the Tory State, that Labour only ever reach an accomodation with it, occupying positions of power, occasionally keeping the seat warm for the Tories return. Until the UK is dissolved and new constitutional arrangements are made between our nations, this broken system will just limp on and on and on.
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2022 at 3:19pm
The Tories are hell bent on remodelling Britain according to their own vision. And it's Thatcherism on steroids. A unitary anglo-state under a heavily centralised government with them at the heart of it, raking it in. 

Anybody else want out? 


Edited by totallybiasedscarlet - 16 January 2022 at 3:19pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tigerburnie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2022 at 8:48pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

The Tories are hell bent on remodelling Britain according to their own vision. And it's Thatcherism on steroids. A unitary anglo-state under a heavily centralised government with them at the heart of it, raking it in. 

Anybody else want out? 
Can't afford it, Scotland is bankrupt without Westminsters money sadly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2022 at 11:17pm
Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

The Tories are hell bent on remodelling Britain according to their own vision. And it's Thatcherism on steroids. A unitary anglo-state under a heavily centralised government with them at the heart of it, raking it in. 

Anybody else want out? 
Can't afford it, Scotland is bankrupt without Westminsters money sadly.

That old chestnut. Been debated to death over the years. I'm afraid it's simply untrue. Whilst it's impossible to give exact predictions for the finances of independent Welsh and Scotish States, the mere fact that Westminster controls the levers of macroeconomic and fiscal policy means that it is currently THE big factor in steering the economy. It sets our budgets by its own spending via the Barnett formula. Yet it also leaves Wales with circa 70% of the capital expenditure of the roUK. Its policies drove the deindustrialisation that significantly widened the gap between the Welsh economy and roUk. It has driven our relative fall in GVA which blights our economy and is wreaking both havoc and misery in our communities. I know that this is also the experience of northern England, so this isn't anti English. It's anti-Westminster. I see Labour as handmaidens to the Tory state. 

Here's the rub. For all that, Wales produces more GDP than Spain on a per person basis. On the same basis produces more in tax returns than New Zealand. Furthermore, Nations of fewer than 5 million produce the most GDP per person on average. How then is it possible for the UK government to so badly mismanage our economy as to put a third of our children in poverty? How has it put over a half of Welsh households in or at risk of poverty? There are plenty of analyses but the best of them is with the Welsh Centre for Governance at Cardiff University. It publishes the GERW report which reveals the £13.5Bn deficit the UK Government runs in Wales' name ... important distinction that. In that report it cites GVA as the biggest hole in Welsh tax revenues to the tune of £5.7Bn. Along with the demographic differences induced by our economic inequality it amounts to nearly £7Bn in lost revenues. It also gives the caveat that the figures and estimates used in the report are not reflective of the finances of an independent Wales.

The UK govt, wrt the Welsh economy is incompetent and blind.

Why? Because it runs Britain on a "core-periphery" economic model. Thatcher accelerated the movement towards this following Patrick Minford's lead on economic policy. Finance and services were seen as the UK's big economic advantage at the expense of other sectors that Minford believed to be weighing down the rest of the economy. Since then, and to be fair this is only a distilling of a long standing structure, London and the SE have been made into a kind of uber-core at the expense of the rest of England and Wales. The UK has one of the richest regions in Europe surrounded by some of the poorest. This was never inevitable. It is the outcome of the Tory State. 

Even at this low benchmark, we have some interesting figures to note. Spending in Wales is £32Bn - some £7Bn is spuriously accounted for having been spent "on Wales' behalf". Should Wales tax at the EU tax/GDP ratio, we'd have only a small deficit - within the margins of EU accession rules. We can also bring into this the 2.4% of GDP that's claimed on military spending on behalf of Wales. Ireland spends 0.8% by way of comparison. We also have a circa £5Bn capital contribution towards HS2 on a population share that we will not receive (Scotland is getting a consequential) as Westminster refuses to class the project as an England only venture despite every single mile of track being laid only there AND a UK Govt report that projects a net loss to the Wales economy of £150M per year because of HS2. Interestingly, Prof. Mark Barry has conducted an analysis that Westminster has underfunded Welsh rail to the tune of £3Bn over a 20 year period. He himself has gone from being a natural Unionist to a supporter of Welsh Independence. His blogs make for excellent reading.

So I do not agree that Wales runs a deficit. Westminster runs a deficit on our behalf. How can we run a deficit when we have no power to do so and no political agency over macroeconomic or fiscal policy? Westminster is the domain of the Tory establishment. They view Britain as their domain and their policies are both materially and socially terrible for the majority of people in Britain, particularly for those of us here in Wales.

I'm a member of Plaid Cymru. My party has proposed a policy of confederalism similar to that of the Nordic Union or Benelux. I believe it is the best constitutional arrangement for the Nations of Britain. The UK is broken. I believe we must rebuild the political constitution of the British Isles on the basis of Nation States for our historic Nations, that they may pursue their own economic, political and cultural development by means of democratic self determination. I also believe that we have close bonds, and should continue to have close bonds on the basis of mutual cooperation and equality. This resetting of British constitutional affairs will also allow the individual nations to pursue the relationship with the EU their respective populations mandate. It could also, IF negotiated with care and dilligence allow for the peaceful reunification of Ireland and Irish participation to some degree in what could be a "Council of the Isles" and share in our mutual cooperation.

I don't want Westminster's money. I want political power democratically exercised by a sovereign Welsh Government for the benefit, economic and otherwise, of the Welsh people. 


Edited by totallybiasedscarlet - 16 January 2022 at 11:17pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 January 2022 at 11:18pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by tigerburnie tigerburnie wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

The Tories are hell bent on remodelling Britain according to their own vision. And it's Thatcherism on steroids. A unitary anglo-state under a heavily centralised government with them at the heart of it, raking it in. 

Anybody else want out? 
Can't afford it, Scotland is bankrupt without Westminsters money sadly.

That old chestnut. Been debated to death over the years. I'm afraid it's simply untrue. Whilst it's impossible to give exact predictions for the finances of independent Welsh and Scotish States, the mere fact that Westminster controls the levers of macroeconomic and fiscal policy means that it is currently THE big factor in steering the economy. It sets our budgets by its own spending via the Barnett formula. Yet it also leaves Wales with circa 70% of the capital expenditure of the roUK. Its policies drove the deindustrialisation that significantly widened the gap between the Welsh economy and roUk. It has driven our relative fall in GVA which blights our economy and is wreaking both havoc and misery in our communities. I know that this is also the experience of northern England, so this isn't anti English. It's anti-Westminster. I see Labour as handmaidens to the Tory state. 

Here's the rub. For all that, Wales produces more GDP than Spain on a per person basis. On the same basis produces more in tax returns than New Zealand. Furthermore, Nations of fewer than 5 million produce the most GDP per person on average. We live in Western Europe, one of the richest regions in the World. How then is it possible for the UK government to so badly mismanage our economy as to put a third of our children in poverty? How has it put over a half of Welsh households in or at risk of poverty? There are plenty of analyses but the best of them is with the Welsh Centre for Governance at Cardiff University. It publishes the GERW report which reveals the £13.5Bn deficit the UK Government runs in Wales' name ... important distinction that. In that report it cites GVA as the biggest hole in Welsh tax revenues to the tune of £5.7Bn. Along with the demographic differences induced by our economic inequality it amounts to nearly £7Bn in lost revenues. It also gives the caveat that the figures and estimates used in the report are not reflective of the finances of an independent Wales.

The UK govt, wrt the Welsh economy is incompetent and blind.

Why? Because it runs Britain on a "core-periphery" economic model. Thatcher accelerated the movement towards this following Patrick Minford's lead on economic policy. Finance and services were seen as the UK's big economic advantage at the expense of other sectors that Minford believed to be weighing down the rest of the economy. Since then, and to be fair this is only a distilling of a long standing structure, London and the SE have been made into a kind of uber-core at the expense of the rest of England and Wales. The UK has one of the richest regions in Europe surrounded by some of the poorest. This was never inevitable. It is the outcome of the Tory State. 

Even at this low benchmark, we have some interesting figures to note. Spending in Wales is £32Bn - some £7Bn is spuriously accounted for having been spent "on Wales' behalf". Should Wales tax at the EU tax/GDP ratio, we'd have only a small deficit - within the margins of EU accession rules. We can also bring into this the 2.4% of GDP that's claimed on military spending on behalf of Wales. Ireland spends 0.8% by way of comparison. We also have a circa £5Bn capital contribution towards HS2 on a population share that we will not receive (Scotland is getting a consequential) as Westminster refuses to class the project as an England only venture despite every single mile of track being laid only there AND a UK Govt report that projects a net loss to the Wales economy of £150M per year because of HS2. Interestingly, Prof. Mark Barry has conducted an analysis that Westminster has underfunded Welsh rail to the tune of £3Bn over a 20 year period. He himself has gone from being a natural Unionist to a supporter of Welsh Independence. His blogs make for excellent reading.

So I do not agree that Wales runs a deficit. Westminster runs a deficit on our behalf. How can we run a deficit when we have no power to do so and no political agency over macroeconomic or fiscal policy? Westminster is the domain of the Tory establishment. They view Britain as their domain and their policies are both materially and socially terrible for the majority of people in Britain, particularly for those of us here in Wales. Interestingly, the Scotsman Tom Nairn wrote a book, "The Break up of Britain" some forty years ago. In it he outlines how the lack of economic development was key in fuelling "Nationalisms" that gave birth to many of the modern European states through the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. He notes that Britain was unusual in that it was just the sort of pre-modern European state that was prone to breaking up but went on to note how the success of the Empire, the industrial revolution alongside Scottish and Welsh participation meant that those countries were net beneficiaries at a time when other European Nations felt the need to pursue their own economic self-determination. Brexit has thrown a firework into the constitutional mix in so far as it is impacting on the economies of the UK in quite differentiated ways. Rees-Mogg himself said it would take 50 years for the UK to feel the economic benefit of Brexit. Too late I feel for supporters of the UK to be assured of its continued survival.

I'm a member of Plaid Cymru. My party has proposed a policy of confederalism similar to that of the Nordic Union or Benelux. I believe it is the best constitutional arrangement for the Nations of Britain. The UK is broken. I believe we must rebuild the political constitution of the British Isles on the basis of Nation States for our historic Nations, that they may pursue their own economic, political and cultural development by means of democratic self determination. I also believe that we have close bonds, and should continue to have close bonds on the basis of mutual cooperation and equality. This resetting of British constitutional affairs will also allow the individual nations to pursue the relationship with the EU their respective populations mandate. It could also, IF negotiated with care and dilligence allow for the peaceful reunification of Ireland and Irish participation to some degree in what could be a "Council of the Isles" and share in our mutual cooperation.

I don't want Westminster's money. I want political power democratically exercised by a sovereign Welsh Government for the benefit, economic and otherwise, of the Welsh people. 


Edited by totallybiasedscarlet - 16 January 2022 at 11:25pm
"If it's on, we back our skills and our confidence ... We've got some great players, play a good brand and we enjoy doing it." Ken Owens
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