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Sosban89 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 
Certainly glad that gets us players like Reggie, Sione, Parkes and McNicholl.

I feel there is a bit of confusion. I was talking about the national team, not the regional teams. 
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Wil Chips View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 6:19am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 


There is something in that comment. I'd specifically state Tier 1 (i.e. SA, NZ, AUS and Argentina). If you had represented those countries at U20 or 2nd team side at senior level then to me that's your team/country. Likewise for France, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland.

Playing for a Tier 2 or 3 country at age grade or non capped level is more of a debate. Halaholo played for Tonga U20's for example, if he knew that meant he was tied to Tonga forever would he have done so?
(By the way I know he's settled with extended family here)
By the very nature of Tonga's standing in global rugby, the rewards for playing for them all through a career, the low number of games, the fact that most of the talent leaves and thus become qualified on residency somewhere else, all means that by staying available to Tonga it offers little in terms of career attainment opportunities.

We have guys like Callum Sheedy, Jonny Williams, Christ Tshiunza and Nick Tompkins & Gareth Anscombe in our Welsh squad that have played for Tier 1 teams (in these cases England at U20, Saxons or in uncapped senior games or for NZ U20).
All are totally legitimate selections, it's just if I made the rules, I would say they made a conscious choice to play for a Tier 1 team in England/NZ. Knowing that the fixture they played in doesn't 'tie' you to that country is frankly, irrelevant, as is having a Granddad born in Pwll etc. For better or worse, players make a conscious choice when they pull on a shirt for a country at adult level.

Story...My daughter is in the Kenyan School swimming championships today...should she succeed she would go on to represent Kenya in an tri country event. Frankly I'd be mortified if that excluded her representing Wales in the future ( not that she is that good by the way). She has Welsh parents, speaks Welsh, considers herself nothing but Welsh, but never lived there. This type of person exists on the planet!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 
Certainly glad that gets us players like Reggie, Sione, Parkes and McNicholl.

I feel there is a bit of confusion. I was talking about the national team, not the regional teams. 
They have to play for a regional team to get their residency in most cases, so the two are linked. Benefits are multiple, IMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimmywilde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 8:10am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

I think its unavoidable in the professional game, Its why alot of Tongan’s / New zealanders and South Africans play for other countries. Huge talent pool and only so many high paying places. Plus convenience too. To earn £20,000 - £50,000 for an autumn series in one if the big rugby nations far outweighs the £500 per game the Tongan national team were reported to be earning.

Here's an idea. Why not every nation agree that a flat rate payment is made for International duty regardless of country financed through World Rugby who could levy all countries for contributions which would depend on ability to pay. 
Objective One funding for Rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 10:55am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 


There is something in that comment. I'd specifically state Tier 1 (i.e. SA, NZ, AUS and Argentina). If you had represented those countries at U20 or 2nd team side at senior level then to me that's your team/country. Likewise for France, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland.

Playing for a Tier 2 or 3 country at age grade or non capped level is more of a debate. Halaholo played for Tonga U20's for example, if he knew that meant he was tied to Tonga forever would he have done so?
(By the way I know he's settled with extended family here)
By the very nature of Tonga's standing in global rugby, the rewards for playing for them all through a career, the low number of games, the fact that most of the talent leaves and thus become qualified on residency somewhere else, all means that by staying available to Tonga it offers little in terms of career attainment opportunities.

We have guys like Callum Sheedy, Jonny Williams, Christ Tshiunza and Nick Tompkins & Gareth Anscombe in our Welsh squad that have played for Tier 1 teams (in these cases England at U20, Saxons or in uncapped senior games or for NZ U20).
All are totally legitimate selections, it's just if I made the rules, I would say they made a conscious choice to play for a Tier 1 team in England/NZ. Knowing that the fixture they played in doesn't 'tie' you to that country is frankly, irrelevant, as is having a Granddad born in Pwll etc. For better or worse, players make a conscious choice when they pull on a shirt for a country at adult level.

Story...My daughter is in the Kenyan School swimming championships today...should she succeed she would go on to represent Kenya in an tri country event. Frankly I'd be mortified if that excluded her representing Wales in the future ( not that she is that good by the way). She has Welsh parents, speaks Welsh, considers herself nothing but Welsh, but never lived there. This type of person exists on the planet!


Exactly! And not necessarily with those antecedents.

As either Gate 12 or Kid A said, it’s about where you feel you belong and feel your roots are. 

The answer can be quite different to convention.
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 5:26pm
As James Lowe just said after the Ireland game. Grew up dreaming of being an all black but I wasn’t good enough. The natural progression is to try to be good enough for another. 
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