Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > SOCIAL > CHAT BOARD
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Sir Keir Starmer
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Sir Keir Starmer

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2223242526 30>
Author
Message
Dai Guevara View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 12 August 2020
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 1486
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 11:32am
Starmer was made labour leader to appease the right wing media, so that the rich and the ruling class could feel assured that their power and money was safe in Starmer's hands, regardless of what labour voters actually wanted. Appeasing those that want to destroy you never works. They treat it as weakness and carry on regardless and will only be happy when there is no opposition to their power and corruption.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
PenScarlet44 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 March 2021
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 96
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 1:19pm
Yes the right wing press have done this to labour lol tin foil hat 
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 18857
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Starmer was made labour leader to appease the right wing media, so that the rich and the ruling class could feel assured that their power and money was safe in Starmer's hands, regardless of what labour voters actually wanted. Appeasing those that want to destroy you never works. They treat it as weakness and carry on regardless and will only be happy when there is no opposition to their power and corruption.

I don't buy that for one moment.

Starmer - unlike many Labour politicians, let alone Tories - came from a pretty modest background:

"Keir Rodney Starmer was born in Southwark, London, on 2 September 1962[1][2] and grew up in the small town of Oxted in Surrey.[3][4][5] He was born second of the four children of Josephine (née Baker), a nurse, and Rodney Starmer, a toolmaker.[5][6][7] His mother had Still's disease.[8][9] His parents were Labour Party supporters, and named him after the party's first parliamentary leader, Keir Hardie.[10][11] He passed the 11-plus examination and gained entry to Reigate Grammar School,[11] then a voluntary aided selective grammar school..."

I think there are several problems:

1. Corbyn and his faction divided the Labour party in a way that has yet to be fixed... Harold Wilson was the last Labour leader canny enough to keep the wings together (Blair simply appealed to a lot of Tory voters, as he was in many ways a conservative)
2. Starmer is a very able man, but is not charismatic; Johnson is an idiot, but gets away with a lot because he has supreme bullshi**ing skills
3. Johnson is backed by the vast majority of the papers (owned as they are by wealthy tax evaders, exiles, and people who aren't even British).

Johnson has continued a Tory trend of purging those institutions which might hold him to account of non-Tories (especially the BBC - see my comment in the 'British press' thread).

I think if he was given a fair crack of the whip by Labour supporters, he could do a good job, but the cards are stacked against him - as they would be for any Labour leader of whichever wing.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Online
Points: 18784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 1:29pm
Much is being made of the part played by the Press in deciding outcomes of elections. I assume this has been going on for many years. A genuine question - newspaper sales/readerships have dropped dramatically over the past 10 years so surely the impact of the print media on election outcomes must be dropping?
Back to Top
aber-fan View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 25 October 2004
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 18857
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 1:38pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Much is being made of the part played by the Press in deciding outcomes of elections. I assume this has been going on for many years. A genuine question - newspaper sales/readerships have dropped dramatically over the past 10 years so surely the impact of the print media on election outcomes must be dropping?

It's a fair question... FWIW, I think the papers still set the agenda in many ways - the BBC and others often pick up on the stories they print.

Plus, as I pointed out before, the BBC by now is stuffed to the gills with Tory placemen. Sky is extremely right-wing. ITV - not too bad in many ways, but paid for by advertisers, so... Channel 4 is a bit more balanced. 

I think we should consider broadcast media as well as press, plus online commentators... it would be difficult for anyone to show that there isn't a considerable right-wing bias in all of that- since the right wing have the money to pay people to say what they want to hear (taking newspaper proprietors as the first and most obvious example).
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
Back to Top
PenScarlet44 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 March 2021
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 96
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Much is being made of the part played by the Press in deciding outcomes of elections. I assume this has been going on for many years. A genuine question - newspaper sales/readerships have dropped dramatically over the past 10 years so surely the impact of the print media on election outcomes must be dropping?

It's a fair question... FWIW, I think the papers still set the agenda in many ways - the BBC and others often pick up on the stories they print.

Plus, as I pointed out before, the BBC by now is stuffed to the gills with Tory placemen. Sky is extremely right-wing. ITV - not too bad in many ways, but paid for by advertisers, so... Channel 4 is a bit more balanced. 

I think we should consider broadcast media as well as press, plus online commentators... it would be difficult for anyone to show that there isn't a considerable right-wing bias in all of that- since the right wing have the money to pay people to say what they want to hear (taking newspaper proprietors as the first and most obvious example).
Channel 4 is extremely left wing lol you need another chip to balance your shoulders
Back to Top
Dai Guevara View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 12 August 2020
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 1486
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 2:25pm
Channel 4 extreme left wing? I won't use lol as you've already used that to death. But please tell me what programmes so that I can start watching it again. S4C may be the least right wing but even it has Guto Harri, previously a former adviser to Boris, travelling from London to chair political programmes.
Back to Top
PenScarlet44 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 March 2021
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 96
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 12:39pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

Channel 4 extreme left wing? I won't use lol as you've already used that to death. But please tell me what programmes so that I can start watching it again. S4C may be the least right wing but even it has Guto Harri, previously a former adviser to Boris, travelling from London to chair political programmes.
Hmm Jon Snow , longest running journalist on channel 4 news , with his lovely f':!k the Tories. 
Back to Top
reesytheexile View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 11 August 2012
Location: Machynys
Status: Offline
Points: 17530
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 2:55pm
Corbyn was brought up in Newport Shropshire and attended Castle House school ( a private school) until aged 11 when he moved to Adams Grammar ( a Haberdashers Livery Company school) in the town. He lived in Yew Tree Manor in Pave Lane with his parents. He was hardly working class 😂 ( although he is fully entitled to his political views.). He has however damaged the Labour movement as a cohesive left of centre party leaving Starmer with huge issues 
Back to Top
PenScarlet44 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 March 2021
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 96
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 3:05pm
Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Corbyn was brought up in Newport Shropshire and attended Castle House school ( a private school) until aged 11 when he moved to Adams Grammar ( a Haberdashers Livery Company school) in the town. He lived in Yew Tree Manor in Pave Lane with his parents. He was hardly working class 😂 ( although he is fully entitled to his political views.). He has however damaged the Labour movement as a cohesive left of centre party leaving Starmer with huge issues 
Corbyn never was a working class man, that's how labour tried to portray him
Back to Top
GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Online
Points: 18784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 3:28pm
Working class - private schools - surely these are yesterday's monicas when we discuss politics. Gone surely are the days when a shining knight is going to emerge from down pit & espouse social fairness & equality? 

Education is a pre-requisite to political leadership. Is it easier for a person with humble origins to understand & therefore engineer more fairness in society? Does it naturally follow that someone who has led a priviliged existence will  find it impossible to keep their snouts out of the trough and believe in fairness for all? 

Jeremy Corbyn was never working class: Boris & Cameron were fellow students at Eaton : do these facts have any real bearing on their political thinking? Why shouldn't someone with Boris' history believe in levelling up our society? Surely it is their character and thinking which will be the ultimate deciding factor in how progressive their policies are. 

A good, decent, honest, fair & principled person can be hewn from many backgrounds and experiences so lets not stereotype them before they start. 
Back to Top
Dai Guevara View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 12 August 2020
Location: Caerdydd
Status: Offline
Points: 1486
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 4:59pm
This part of the thread started when aber-fan seemed to think that I was suggesting that Starmer was not from a working class background. I made no reference to his origins only that he was made leader to appease the ruling class -to make them feel that they had nothing to lose in terms of their money and power by electing a right-winger who would do his best to rid the party of those who were genuinely passionate in wanting to improve the life chances of the poor. His pathetic attempts to get rid of Corbyn and many others through ridiculous accusations of anti-semitism showed what treachery he and his advisers were capable of in their attempts to turn Labour into a party with little difference from the current right-wing Tory party. Is it any surprise that the voters prefer the real-thing to the cheap imitation created by the likes of Mandelson, and a totally wooden one at that.
Back to Top
dyniol53 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 08 April 2018
Location: Llundain
Status: Offline
Points: 1949
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 5:11pm
What’s funny is I agree with Starmer’s tactics that you need to remove the far left from the electorates field of vision. But I also agree with Dai that this effectively makes them “Tory-lite” so voters don’t see the point in them.

The longer the Labour party’s decline goes on the more I think that Blairism wasn’t a coherent philosophy it was a charisma cult. You can’t really have a Blairite party without Blair. 

If I were a Labour Party strategist I’d just be searching high and wide for someone with that level of charisma.

The next best alternative is a Labour Leaver to if there exists one who’s sincere. 
https://twitter.com/exile_podcast?lang=en
Back to Top
PenScarlet44 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 March 2021
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 96
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 9:57pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

What’s funny is I agree with Starmer’s tactics that you need to remove the far left from the electorates field of vision. But I also agree with Dai that this effectively makes them “Tory-lite” so voters don’t see the point in them.

The longer the Labour party’s decline goes on the more I think that Blairism wasn’t a coherent philosophy it was a charisma cult. You can’t really have a Blairite party without Blair. 

If I were a Labour Party strategist I’d just be searching high and wide for someone with that level of charisma.

The next best alternative is a Labour Leaver to if there exists one who’s sincere. 
There was a Labour leader who was anti EU Corbyn was his name
Back to Top
PenScarlet44 View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 16 March 2021
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 96
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 10:01pm
Why are Welsh labour anti business
Back to Top
RR1972 View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Online
Points: 18270
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2021 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

This part of the thread started when aber-fan seemed to think that I was suggesting that Starmer was not from a working class background. I made no reference to his origins only that he was made leader to appease the ruling class -to make them feel that they had nothing to lose in terms of their money and power by electing a right-winger who would do his best to rid the party of those who were genuinely passionate in wanting to improve the life chances of the poor. His pathetic attempts to get rid of Corbyn and many others through ridiculous accusations of anti-semitism showed what treachery he and his advisers were capable of in their attempts to turn Labour into a party with little difference from the current right-wing Tory party. Is it any surprise that the voters prefer the real-thing to the cheap imitation created by the likes of Mandelson, and a totally wooden one at that.
let’s be honest the voters didn’t want corbyn either his approval rating was dire, he lost two elections one by a record margin
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 2223242526 30>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.