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Sir Keir Starmer

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2020 at 2:49pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.

Pity the other Arab states don't care about the Palestinians nor do the so called leaders of Palestine
If it bleeds we can can kill it
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 July 2020 at 4:17pm
Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.
 
 
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years
 
As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west  going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims
 
The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards
 
 
Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about
 
 
Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with
 
Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked
 
 
Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form


Edited by RR1972 - 02 July 2020 at 4:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2020 at 9:05am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.
 
 
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years
 
As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west  going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims
 
The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards
 
 
Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about
 
 
Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with
 
Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked
 
 
Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form

China, USA and Russia basically do whatever they want = definition of a superpower.

The biggest issue I now think we have is the inability of these different opinions to speak to each other. People are in their echo chambers (me a good case in point) and struggle to engage with those with different viewpoints. Then our political system is geared for two party politics with zero compromise. So all they do is blame the other guys to get elected in our now severely out of date first past the post system. 

But yes, I think hypocrisy and double-standards is one of the biggest issues. There are differences, e.g. Cummings is the one actually involved in making the decisions and decided to hold a press conference to the nation where he flat out lied yet still retained his job somehow, but the widening gulf between the public and politicians is very clear. You'd think Labour would be well-equipped for an "us and them" campaign but these style sentiments are the preserve of the harder right anti-immigration nationalist/populist parties at the moment who use this anger very effectively, despite the very clear hypocrisy within that!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2020 at 10:48am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.
 
 
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years
 
As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west  going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims
 
The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards
 
 
Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about
 
 
Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with
 
Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked
 
 
Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form

China, USA and Russia basically do whatever they want = definition of a superpower.

The biggest issue I now think we have is the inability of these different opinions to speak to each other. People are in their echo chambers (me a good case in point) and struggle to engage with those with different viewpoints. Then our political system is geared for two party politics with zero compromise. So all they do is blame the other guys to get elected in our now severely out of date first past the post system. 

But yes, I think hypocrisy and double-standards is one of the biggest issues. There are differences, e.g. Cummings is the one actually involved in making the decisions and decided to hold a press conference to the nation where he flat out lied yet still retained his job somehow, but the widening gulf between the public and politicians is very clear. You'd think Labour would be well-equipped for an "us and them" campaign but these style sentiments are the preserve of the harder right anti-immigration nationalist/populist parties at the moment who use this anger very effectively, despite the very clear hypocrisy within that!

Far be it for me to further diminish your faith in our politicians/political system but on the subject of Cummins' TV statement does anyone else feel that in this political climate where every word/phrase is well prepared & overseen by strategists/analysts that nobody chose to tell him that his story of testing his eyesight was such a load of nonsensical drivel. Are we to understand that the No 10 media machine thought it would for minute persuade us unwashed?  Are they really that out of touch? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2020 at 11:06am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:


Far be it for me to further diminish your faith in our politicians/political system but on the subject of Cummins' TV statement does anyone else feel that in this political climate where every word/phrase is well prepared & overseen by strategists/analysts that nobody chose to tell him that his story of testing his eyesight was such a load of nonsensical drivel. Are we to understand that the No 10 media machine thought it would for minute persuade us unwashed?  Are they really that out of touch? 

Not possible, except I can see that there's worse out there - US, China, Russia being three clear examples!

Yes, it is strange isn't it? It suggests either he didn't check with anyone or, if he did, ignored them. Or that it was a deliberate obvious lie designed by number 10 to well, achieve what exactly? Further break trust, encourage people to break lockdown? The first seems more likely if we think DC holds power over the PM which the lack of any disciplinary action would support. The second seems more like a conspiracy theory but we do know DC advocated a herd mentality approach. There's a third option: it's actually true but this seems very unlikely.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 July 2020 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Ffidel Bennett Ffidel Bennett wrote:

Scarletabroad - you missed out the first part of your statement - "it's not up for debate, the tactic is not taught by any body in any organisation, Israeli or otherwise"
Strange that quite recently, in a short period of time, that 4 different Israeli soldiers were caught using it, on camera.
Now I realise that for someone who is determined to defend Israeli actions, the photos don't prove anything but neither could you possibly prove the above part of your statement, which you can only have made in blind faith.
What this debate mainly shows is what side you are on, and I make no excuses that my sympathies lie with the Palestinians and against those who defend Israeli occupation and annexation of their land. We in the west keep trying to brush these human rights violations under the carpet although, hypocritically, when it suits us, we are very keen to publicise, elsewhere.
 
 
I'm actually on your side with the way Israel treat Palestine, I'm just saying that training method is not taught by anyone (to my knowledge) and I have worked in that line of work for over 20 years
 
As for the west being silent on certain human right violations when are the left in the west  going to come out and condemn china for how they are treating the people of hong kong or even worse their treatment of Uyghur Muslims
 
The left are very good at pointing out the hypocrisy of others but seem very reluctant to look at their own double standards
 
 
Breaches of human rights are unacceptable no matter who carries them out and that is something we should all be unequivocal about
 
 
Sadly in politics people seem to be only offended by the actions of those they disagree with
 
Look at lockdown cummins broke lock down rules and labour (quite rightly imo) called for him to be sacked, the labour mayor of Leicester broke lock down rules and now the torys are calling for him to be sacked
 
 
Neither side were willing to condemn the actions of their own member , very poor form

exactly why no one can ever fully commit to any party imo the sheer amount of bias self interest double standards and hypocrisy is off the charts. Now with algorhythms, right wing media, left wing university lecturers and PC state tv, all camps have become more extreme and more encamped. They all close their ears, repeat their talking points and name call each other, usually with accusations of bigotry and sexism. This means no negotiation no compromise you agreements. The senate is a perfect example of the damage this stagnation causes, total breakdown in communication leads to a breakdown in society. 

As someone here mentioned about blair, before he became bush warmongering poodle, he did manage a peace agreement in Ireland all of which requered months and months of listening , compromise , communication, negotiation, collaboration. All words that have disappeared from our political vocabulary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2020 at 5:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2020 at 7:31pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

a disgraceful decision by the wag
a personal interest roy? i can't see what keir starmer has to do with that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 August 2020 at 9:17pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

a disgraceful decision by the wag
a personal interest roy? i can't see what keir starmer has to do with that.

Labour demonising landlords , its populist nonsense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 August 2020 at 4:48pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

a disgraceful decision by the wag

a personal interest roy? i can't see what keir starmer has to do with that.


Labour demonising landlords , its populist nonsense

What did you expect from labour
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2020 at 6:17pm
I see the BBC have stopped the singing of the lyrics to rule britannia and land of hope and glory in case it offends or something.
The u-turn on the license fee for pensioners was a killer blow, but their output has been declining for decades.
This could be the beginning of the end of the BBC as we know it, its now seen by the majority of license fee holders as a radical anti british organisation.
Both labour and tories have condemned this decision, be interesting to see what starmer does about this and the license fee



Edited by roy munster - 25 August 2020 at 6:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2020 at 7:46pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I see the BBC have stopped the singing of the lyrics to rule britannia and land of hope and glory in case it offends or something.
The u-turn on the license fee for pensioners was a killer blow, but their output has been declining for decades.
This could be the beginning of the end of the BBC as we know it, its now seen by the majority of license fee holders as a radical anti british organisation.
Both labour and tories have condemned this decision, be interesting to see what starmer does about this and the license fee

it will for a be year only as no audience obviously with Covid. Much ado about nothing it seems 

Edited by reesytheexile - 25 August 2020 at 9:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2020 at 8:12pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I see the BBC have stopped the singing of the lyrics to rule britannia and land of hope and glory in case it offends or something.
The u-turn on the license fee for pensioners was a killer blow, but their output has been declining for decades.
This could be the beginning of the end of the BBC as we know it, its now seen by the majority of license fee holders as a radical anti british organisation.
Both labour and tories have condemned this decision, be interesting to see what starmer does about this and the license fee
I believe they should have permanently removed Rule Britannia from the Proms as it’s a song celebrating the conquest of quarter of the World’s Population by the British Empire, something that should be commemorated but not celebrated. It also includes the line “Britains shall never be slaves” which I can imagine is hugely offensive to black people as it gives the message that the British are better than black people, something which is obviously completely unacceptable today. Frankly the only thing I’m disappointed with the BBC about is that they’ve decided that they’ll bring back the singing of it next year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2020 at 9:12pm
If they start banning all songs with any elements that offend someone where does the censorship end?
starmer has got his hands full with the BBC issue as over 60% of the public already want to scrap the license fee which may in effect mean the end of the BBC


Edited by roy munster - 25 August 2020 at 9:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2020 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

If they start banning all songs with any elements that offend someone where does the censorship end?
ernie for speeding in a milk cart?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BlackwoodScarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 August 2020 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

I see the BBC have stopped the singing of the lyrics to rule britannia and land of hope and glory in case it offends or something.
The u-turn on the license fee for pensioners was a killer blow, but their output has been declining for decades.
This could be the beginning of the end of the BBC as we know it, its now seen by the majority of license fee holders as a radical anti british organisation.
Both labour and tories have condemned this decision, be interesting to see what starmer does about this and the license fee



I believe they should have permanently removed Rule Britannia from the Proms as it’s a song celebrating the conquest of quarter of the World’s Population by the British Empire, something that should be commemorated but not celebrated. It also includes the line “Britains shall never be slaves” which I can imagine is hugely offensive to black people as it gives the message that the British are better than black people, something which is obviously completely unacceptable today. Frankly the only thing I’m disappointed with the BBC about is that they’ve decided that they’ll bring back the singing of it next year.

But British people have been enslaved
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