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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Wales misses Shingler in line outs. He is the best in the business but no youngster now 
id be tempted to call him up just for this game
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Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by reesytheexile reesytheexile wrote:

Wales misses Shingler in line outs. He is the best in the business but no youngster now 
id be tempted to call him up just for this game
Yep. He is still pretty fit and athletic 

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Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

Whichever way Pivac throws the dice for SA - most of the starting XV are average at best and the bench will be dross. Years of complacency, self-interest and incompetence in the leadership of the pro game in Wales has brought us to this point. I worry that it's already too late. Any national coach would be struggling with the resources and system we have.

You make a very valid point. I posted yesterday that we we are not seeing the young players forcing their way through the system & that, in certain key positions we are being forced to pick the same guys who, even though they have been given every opportunity, are clearly not going to make the very top. Either that or we are still selecting guys of 34/5 because they are still better than the alternatives. That is not sustainable.

I struggle to find a young 15 who is going to burst through in the next few years, likewise where is the 13 to take over from Foxy ( I had Cory Baldwin down for that role two years ago). Despite all his many talents Cawdor is not the answer at 9 but, for me, is our best option as Tomos is way too flaky against the better Internationals. Where are the young 9's??? I could go on and on position by position & the situation is the same - we have 4 10's in the squad, two are 34, one is 30+ & the other is not good enough.

The situation gets more depressing when you look at Eddie Jones' squad which is bursting with young talent. Steward at 15 is a real prospect, Smith at 22 is already a Lion, Quirke & Randall at 9 will push hard ( Randall now replaced by Mitchell); Lynagh at 20 on the wing & it goes on. Players like Ford, Billy Vunipola, Mako & Jamie George would, in my opinion, walk into our starting 23 at the moment but are deemed not good enough against the top teams, not good enough to win the World Cup. 
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I find it really depressing that we struggle to develop our under 20 players into the senior squad.
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ladram View Drop Down
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Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

Whichever way Pivac throws the dice for SA - most of the starting XV are average at best and the bench will be dross. Years of complacency, self-interest and incompetence in the leadership of the pro game in Wales has brought us to this point. I worry that it's already too late. Any national coach would be struggling with the resources and system we have.

You make a very valid point. I posted yesterday that we we are not seeing the young players forcing their way through the system & that, in certain key positions we are being forced to pick the same guys who, even though they have been given every opportunity, are clearly not going to make the very top. Either that or we are still selecting guys of 34/5 because they are still better than the alternatives. That is not sustainable.

I struggle to find a young 15 who is going to burst through in the next few years, likewise where is the 13 to take over from Foxy ( I had Cory Baldwin down for that role two years ago). Despite all his many talents Cawdor is not the answer at 9 but, for me, is our best option as Tomos is way too flaky against the better Internationals. Where are the young 9's??? I could go on and on position by position & the situation is the same - we have 4 10's in the squad, two are 34, one is 30+ & the other is not good enough.

The situation gets more depressing when you look at Eddie Jones' squad which is bursting with young talent. Steward at 15 is a real prospect, Smith at 22 is already a Lion, Quirke & Randall at 9 will push hard ( Randall now replaced by Mitchell); Lynagh at 20 on the wing & it goes on. Players like Ford, Billy Vunipola, Mako & Jamie George would, in my opinion, walk into our starting 23 at the moment but are deemed not good enough against the top teams, not good enough to win the World Cup. 




it will take hammerings in the autumn games and the 6 nations for the grabbers at the top of our game to realise that success at the top starts with strong roots at the bottom,50 point hammerings for regions has become the norm, i'm afraid that we are not far away from it becoming the same at the top,i know it's not easy to do something at regional level of breaking away but i feel we are far too quick to grab whatever crumbs the marie antionette's at the top throw us,it cannot continue so a revolution is the only way,there are some quite militant posters on here so ringleaders shouldn't be a problem WinkWinkLOL
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Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

Whichever way Pivac throws the dice for SA - most of the starting XV are average at best and the bench will be dross. Years of complacency, self-interest and incompetence in the leadership of the pro game in Wales has brought us to this point. I worry that it's already too late. Any national coach would be struggling with the resources and system we have.

You make a very valid point. I posted yesterday that we we are not seeing the young players forcing their way through the system & that, in certain key positions we are being forced to pick the same guys who, even though they have been given every opportunity, are clearly not going to make the very top. Either that or we are still selecting guys of 34/5 because they are still better than the alternatives. That is not sustainable.

I struggle to find a young 15 who is going to burst through in the next few years, likewise where is the 13 to take over from Foxy ( I had Cory Baldwin down for that role two years ago). Despite all his many talents Cawdor is not the answer at 9 but, for me, is our best option as Tomos is way too flaky against the better Internationals. Where are the young 9's??? I could go on and on position by position & the situation is the same - we have 4 10's in the squad, two are 34, one is 30+ & the other is not good enough.

The situation gets more depressing when you look at Eddie Jones' squad which is bursting with young talent. Steward at 15 is a real prospect, Smith at 22 is already a Lion, Quirke & Randall at 9 will push hard ( Randall now replaced by Mitchell); Lynagh at 20 on the wing & it goes on. Players like Ford, Billy Vunipola, Mako & Jamie George would, in my opinion, walk into our starting 23 at the moment but are deemed not good enough against the top teams, not good enough to win the World Cup. 




it will take hammerings in the autumn games and the 6 nations for the grabbers at the top of our game to realise that success at the top starts with strong roots at the bottom,50 point hammerings for regions has become the norm, i'm afraid that we are not far away from it becoming the same at the top,i know it's not easy to do something at regional level of breaking away but i feel we are far too quick to grab whatever crumbs the marie antionette's at the top throw us,it cannot continue so a revolution is the only way,there are some quite militant posters on here so ringleaders shouldn't be a problem WinkWinkLOL

Yes Nigel perhaps those red cards in last season's 6 nations masked our real problems for yet another year. I fail to see any way we can beat SA or Australia this Autumn and the game against Fiji may actually find our real level on the World stage. How has it come to this? To many of us on this forum reaching the semi final of the Japan World Cup only muddied the waters of the state of professional rugby in Wales. For sure Welsh rugby missed a golden opportunity back in the 90's but we really need some clear thinking individuals to grab our game by the scruff of the neck and shake it out of its stupor.
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On the subject of an all court modern day 9. If Pivac wants a player who can box kick accurately, fizz flat passes from the breakdown & support the ball carrier then he should maybe look at a boy playing for Saracens - but oh wait a minute he cannot be selected because of some dumb self inflicted rule. Sometimes in life you just get what you deserve!!!!!!
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"It's the fine details – not moving forward on kicks, executing our exits correctly and not putting pressure on ourselves.

Are these the words of our captain??? Foxy its not fine detail its the bloody basics, fine detail involves a little more intricacy like dummy runners and angles of running. We can't even get the basics right like not being 20 metres in front of the kicker. Never mind its much easier all round if we keep blaming the officials and the cheating opposition. Heads in the sand my giddy aunt!!!!!!
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another question i would add is why can't wales regional and international level produce a hooker who consistently hits his target? other nations can,is it too much gym and less basic skills?
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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Why was ben thomas in the 23? Another cardiff sub who pivac seems to think is a top player, 
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Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

another question i would add is why can't wales regional and international level produce a hooker who consistently hits his target? other nations can,is it too much gym and less basic skills?

There are 2 of these players playing their rugby down the Liberty.
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dyniol53 View Drop Down
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Yeah I’m not really sure why Sam Parry doesn’t get a look in.

Perhaps they’re just trying to recruit this Ulster hooker to regional rugby with a cap 
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Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

another question i would add is why can't wales regional and international level produce a hooker who consistently hits his target? other nations can,is it too much gym and less basic skills?

Surely it's down to repeated drills and practice verging on the obsessive.
Johnny Wilkinson and Halfpenny spent hours practicing their goalkicking after training was over and often on non training days to ensure they got it right on the day.  I doubt any of the Welsh hookers are as keen to perfect their throwing in skills.

Just a question, When it was all going pear shaped on Saturday why didn't the lineout captain call for a shortened lineout or a throw to the front man for a bit of variation.  Lack of original thinking or worried he'd be going against tha coach's plan?
Did we have pack leader after AWJ went off?
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Until the professional game is run by professionals in Wales we will always be miles behind the best teams and I include England in that. 
If we are happy being in the second or even third tier of world rugby then we carry on as we are. 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Until the professional game is run by professionals in Wales we will always be miles behind the best teams and I include England in that. 
If we are happy being in the second or even third tier of world rugby then we carry on as we are. 


Couldn't agree more. Thumbs Up
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Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

Until the professional game is run by professionals in Wales we will always be miles behind the best teams and I include England in that. 
If we are happy being in the second or even third tier of world rugby then we carry on as we are. 


As a matter of interest who coaches the Welsh lineout - Humphries???? The most able lineout coach I have to say is Steve Borthwick & look at the job he is doing with the Tigers. Look no further the RFU if he continues when Eddie is gone. It, of course, isn't fair just to blame the hookers but they must take  alot of the blame. Also as someone just posted our lack of variety when things are going wrong is startling. Securing good clean ball from your possession is vital - always was always will be. 
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