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South Africa to replace Italy in the 6N

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totallybiasedscarlet View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote totallybiasedscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: South Africa to replace Italy in the 6N
    Posted: 17 February 2022 at 8:00am
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Dic Penderyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 8:12am
If the Italians leave,I don't think anybody should replace them.There's enough international rugby ,and the 5 Nations was,and would be,a better and fairer tournament with all sides having an equal amount of away fixtures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

If the Italians leave,I don't think anybody should replace them.There's enough international rugby ,and the 5 Nations was,and would be,a better and fairer tournament with all sides having an equal amount of away fixtures.

Knowing the WRU they would schedule in another out of window Autumn international to re-coup the money lost by losing the 3rd home fixture every other year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 9:14am
Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 9:17am
I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 10:02am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 

Yep.......dancing with the devil.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 11:44am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 
Yes but they only have 1/7th of the shares don’t they? Surely the unions could just say no, and that would be the end of the matter. But that would require the unions to be the long term custodians of the growth of the game and not being all about chasing the money…
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 
Yes but they only have 1/7th of the shares don’t they? Surely the unions could just say no, and that would be the end of the matter. But that would require the unions to be the long term custodians of the growth of the game and not being all about chasing the money…

Do the Italians also have 1/7 of the shares ? If so they'd have to be bought out. Gets a little messy then handing their shares to, say Georgia, only to have to take them back the following season and then give them back from whence they came. 

Don't want to be a party pooper, but I don't think it is as easy as it sounds.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
Relegation to a 2nd tier for a season would be a financial disaster for us. Why would we want to introduce that possibility when we have guaranteed £millions every year at the moment?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 1:01pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
Relegation to a 2nd tier for a season would be a financial disaster for us. Why would we want to introduce that possibility when we have guaranteed £millions every year at the moment?

Well World rugby are on record as saying they want to spread the game & assist the tier 2 nations. Wales, among others, pledge to get behind that stance. Surely your not suggesting that was all talk & no trousers?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 1:26pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
Relegation to a 2nd tier for a season would be a financial disaster for us. Why would we want to introduce that possibility when we have guaranteed £millions every year at the moment?

Perhaps that's the incentive that the WRU need to shift their collective backsides !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 1:31pm
It used to be said of BT that they were a huge pension fund with a trading entity on the side.

The WRU could be identified similarly. Maybe a hotel business with the inconvenience of professional rugby clubs.

Re the CVC stake, the capital sum was paid in return for a reduction in the clubs’ future competition income, iirc.

Has any of that capital sum found its way from the WRU to the 4 pro clubs, while we have to make do with that reduced competition income?
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 1:42pm
the choiche of include Italy in 6N was only a political choice for a tournament of pair teams..at the same time arrived encouranging result from Italy but everybody knew that there was a deep difference between us and others and 20 years not enough for reduce the gap..at the same time we had a scellerate rugby politics and now leave the tournament is a natural effect of business rugby...
Italy has a price cash gratitude from cvc, they are not samaritans and look for the business, so is well for them include SA....
Italy lost his occasion, amen...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 2:24pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_Europe_International_Championships

The 6 nations 2nd division has been around for 86 years. bottom side of 6 gets replaced by top team in the 2nd league (the trophy) But next year theyre going to have 8 teams in the top table , so no relegation for the next few seasons. 

Georgia are the dominant force, 14 championship wins, 13 grand slams. 

Attendances seem to vary greatly, georgia have had 20,000 russia 12,000 spain 10,000 but other games can fall as low as 1500 in romania.


ChampionshipPlWPts
 Spain209
 Romania208
 Georgia *207
 Portugal202
 Russia201
 Netherlands200
TrophyPlWPts
 Poland228
 Germany216
 Belgium115
 Ukraine315
 Lithuania315
  Switzerland100
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

I guess this is the inevitable consequence of chasing the money when you get the likes of CVC involved. Are they interested in being the long term custodians of the growth of the game - are they b.ll...s. Fastest return in investment as possible then move on to the next sport. 
Yes but they only have 1/7th of the shares don’t they? Surely the unions could just say no, and that would be the end of the matter. But that would require the unions to be the long term custodians of the growth of the game and not being all about chasing the money…

Do the Italians also have 1/7 of the shares ? If so they'd have to be bought out. Gets a little messy then handing their shares to, say Georgia, only to have to take them back the following season and then give them back from whence they came. 

Don't want to be a party pooper, but I don't think it is as easy as it sounds.
yes italy do so it’ll be extended to 7 nations or they will get a huge cash settlement to buy their share
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 February 2022 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Regardless of the quantity there should be an incentive for the 2nd tier European teams to gain promotion via a play off system. Just dropping Italy from the 6 nations isn't the answer to the long term development of the game. 
Relegation to a 2nd tier for a season would be a financial disaster for us. Why would we want to introduce that possibility when we have guaranteed £millions every year at the moment?

Well World rugby are on record as saying they want to spread the game & assist the tier 2 nations. Wales, among others, pledge to get behind that stance. Surely your not suggesting that was all talk & no trousers?????
What “World Rugby” want and what the unions will allow to happen are two different things. The 6 Nations unions voting for promotion/relegation would be like turkeys voting for Christmas. World Rugby will have to find some other way to develop the global game that doesn’t disadvantage us. 
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