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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 hours 46 minutes ago at 7:44am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Two things that caught my eye, one was just that ... SH waving at players to fan out, or come in close, go blind, or create a train for a kick...in my day that's an open invitation to counter ruck and/or trying some more (admittedly shifty) tactics like pulling the SH in to the ruck etc.

The other thing, which grinds my bolts more than it should tbh, is when we aren't happy about a marginal play that doesn't go our way we think remonstrating with the ref comes first, only then trying to address the outcome.

Much as I think Brace got the try just before ht wrong, it was in there a long time, and when their SH got his hands in there we were throwing our arms up in the air rather than addressing the threat.

Very good points Wil. Play the whistle. If Hardy had wrapped up his opposite number & wrestled him to the ground instead of remonstrating with officials in the process taking his eye off the ball the best outcome for Edinburgh would have been a scrum.

On the subject of Blacker midway through last season his form went to another level and stayed there. He creates tempo, is usually very accurate with a low error count. Dwayne talks of consistency of performance well young Blacker epitomises that & for me deserves the shirt. I would go as far as putting Cawdor on the bench telling Kieran & therefore the whole squad that some levels of performance are not acceptable. 

We lost that game by 4 points. Add to the fiasco which was the 3rd try the fumbled service from a wonderful attacking scrum which would have had Scott & Foxy licking their lips & another couple of fumbles in attacking situations & the post mortem of the game yesterday would not have been great viewing for Hardy thats for sure. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote surfing-mtber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 31 minutes ago at 10:59am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

You mean he needs Foxy to pick the ball out of the breakdown for him?

I don't understand sorry.

Blacker just impresses me every time he plays ( not that I am much of an aficionado of pure scrum half play mind).


Fully agree, the speed of service and quality of his passing are quite excellent.  Combine that with the introduction of Costellow, whose passing is also refreshingly crisp and accurate and the back line go up one gear.  That then gets Scott and Foxy on the front foot and hey presto, the wings get some possession.

Some posters on here are heavily criticizing Hardy.  OK, he had a poorish game and the remarks regarding the speed of service from the rucks are valid, but the reasons we lost were 25 missed tackles, loosing Shings and subsequent dodgy lineouts and we missed 5 points from the tee (including one difficult kick).

The two scoring opportunities from attacking lineouts in the first half were crying out for a variation in tactics.  This is where we miss Cubby on the peel (no pun intended) with either centre on his shoulder, keeps the defence on its toes.

Thought Conbeer had his best game in a Scarlets shirt, he was everywhere and what an improvement in defence.

Despite all of that, we could have won it.  Brace wasn't the reason we lost, however the try before half time was not legal and Edinburgh failed to attract a yellow for a large number of penalties.

One game doesn't make a season.  Onwards!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 hours 25 minutes ago at 11:05am
Originally posted by surfing-mtber surfing-mtber wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

You mean he needs Foxy to pick the ball out of the breakdown for him?

I don't understand sorry.

Blacker just impresses me every time he plays ( not that I am much of an aficionado of pure scrum half play mind).


Fully agree, the speed of service and quality of his passing are quite excellent.  Combine that with the introduction of Costellow, whose passing is also refreshingly crisp and accurate and the back line go up one gear.  That then gets Scott and Foxy on the front foot and hey presto, the wings get some possession.

Some posters on here are heavily criticizing Hardy.  OK, he had a poorish game and the remarks regarding the speed of service from the rucks are valid, but the reasons we lost were 25 missed tackles, loosing Shings and subsequent dodgy lineouts and we missed 5 points from the tee (including one difficult kick).

The two scoring opportunities from attacking lineouts in the first half were crying out for a variation in tactics.  This is where we miss Cubby on the peel (no pun intended) with either centre on his shoulder, keeps the defence on its toes.

Thought Conbeer had his best game in a Scarlets shirt, he was everywhere and what an improvement in defence.

Despite all of that, we could have won it.  Brace wasn't the reason we lost, however the try before half time was not legal and Edinburgh failed to attract a yellow for a large number of penalties.

One game doesn't make a season.  Onwards!

I agree 25 missed tackles is a poor stat but Hardy does deserve the criticism as he was involved in 4 separate poor instances of play which cost us points - the two biggest being that try and the great attacking scrum platform in their 22. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 5 hours 9 minutes ago at 1:21pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:



The other thing, which grinds my bolts more than it should tbh, is when we aren't happy about a marginal play that doesn't go our way we think remonstrating with the ref comes first, only then trying to address the outcome.

Much as I think Brace got the try just before ht wrong, it was in there a long time, and when their SH got his hands in there we were throwing our arms up in the air rather than addressing the threat.


I agree with this sentiment but the opposite is likely in today's game. I mean if Scott goes to ground clutching his face when Cherry struck him and the physios come on - it's a card. (Not that he ever would obviously! But I can think of a couple of outside halves at the top end of the game that absolutely would have done this and got the outcome they wanted).

Trying to influence or catch the eye of a referee about an incident probably alters the outcome in your favour more often than not. I'm not saying it's right, but that's why they do it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 4 hours 52 minutes ago at 1:38pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:



The other thing, which grinds my bolts more than it should tbh, is when we aren't happy about a marginal play that doesn't go our way we think remonstrating with the ref comes first, only then trying to address the outcome.

Much as I think Brace got the try just before ht wrong, it was in there a long time, and when their SH got his hands in there we were throwing our arms up in the air rather than addressing the threat.


I agree with this sentiment but the opposite is likely in today's game. I mean if Scott goes to ground clutching his face when Cherry struck him and the physios come on - it's a card. (Not that he ever would obviously! But I can think of a couple of outside halves at the top end of the game that absolutely would have done this and got the outcome they wanted).

Trying to influence or catch the eye of a referee about an incident probably alters the outcome in your favour more often than not. I'm not saying it's right, but that's why they do it.


100%. If it looks silly play acting so be it. Could be the difference between a W or L. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 46 minutes ago at 2:44pm
I get that, but that's all off the ball and not impacting play as such.

My point is slightly different...with the try before ht the ref has called the ball out and said play on, and we still think it's a good idea to appeal rather than close down the player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 38 minutes ago at 2:52pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I get that, but that's all off the ball and not impacting play as such.

My point is slightly different...with the try before ht the ref has called the ball out and said play on, and we still think it's a good idea to appeal rather than close down the player.


I'm not disagreeing, and it's not a good look when the play results in a try and the referee disagrees with the whinging. And the TMO.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 58 minutes ago at 3:32pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I get that, but that's all off the ball and not impacting play as such.

My point is slightly different...with the try before ht the ref has called the ball out and said play on, and we still think it's a good idea to appeal rather than close down the player.


I'm not disagreeing, and it's not a good look when the play results in a try and the referee disagrees with the whinging. And the TMO.

I thought the ref had it right.The ball wasn't at Shingler's feet,and appeared to be loose,to Hardy's left,and not covered by Shingler's body at all.Either way,the scrum-half took too long and then compounded his error by moaning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 31 minutes ago at 3:59pm
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I get that, but that's all off the ball and not impacting play as such.

My point is slightly different...with the try before ht the ref has called the ball out and said play on, and we still think it's a good idea to appeal rather than close down the player.


I'm not disagreeing, and it's not a good look when the play results in a try and the referee disagrees with the whinging. And the TMO.


I thought the ref had it right.The ball wasn't at Shingler's feet,and appeared to be loose,to Hardy's left,and not covered by Shingler's body at all.Either way,the scrum-half took too long and then compounded his error by moaning.


Did their 9 come from an onside position when the ball was announced as playable?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 2 hours 31 minutes ago at 3:59pm
If the ball is out then the player has to come from behind the back foot to pick it up. The SH from Edinburgh was nowhere near that, and also knocked it on.

Anyway it’s done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 24 minutes ago at 5:06pm
Exactly my thought at the time Wil. The Edinburgh SH was retreating from an offside position. All good at that point. However to attempt to try to play the ball, even if the ref called ball out, he first had to get back onside which he never did. I thought he also entered from the side, but if the ref had called ball out, then side entry did not come in to it.

Was Foxy alerted to this, and if so did he raise it with the ref, and finally if he did, what was the refs response ?

No doubt the Scarlets will have raised this with Brace since the game. A lot for Brace to answer there. I think there is a case for referee responses to be published.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 22 minutes ago at 5:08pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

I get that, but that's all off the ball and not impacting play as such.

My point is slightly different...with the try before ht the ref has called the ball out and said play on, and we still think it's a good idea to appeal rather than close down the player.


I'm not disagreeing, and it's not a good look when the play results in a try and the referee disagrees with the whinging. And the TMO.


I thought the ref had it right.The ball wasn't at Shingler's feet,and appeared to be loose,to Hardy's left,and not covered by Shingler's body at all.Either way,the scrum-half took too long and then compounded his error by moaning.


Did their 9 come from an onside position when the ball was announced as playable?

No. Their 9 never got back onside Kid A.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 1 hour 19 minutes ago at 5:11pm
Don’t forget the ball was knocked out of Hand, which the TMO alerted to Brace, who just ignored him
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 58 minutes ago at 5:32pm


  There 9 knocked it on ,plain and simple also.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 7 minutes ago at 6:23pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Was Foxy alerted to this, and if so did he raise it with the ref, and finally if he did, what was the refs response ?

No doubt the Scarlets will have raised this with Brace since the game. A lot for Brace to answer there. I think there is a case for referee responses to be published.
Foxy went to speak to Brace about it but was given short shrift. 
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