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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 1:19am
Edinburgh is a magnificent city , probably my favourite in the uk
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 5:31am
Originally posted by jeremy windell jeremy windell wrote:

Originally posted by gaffer gaffer wrote:

Sadly, I really think whoever we pick is just shuffling the deckchairs. Gatland's recall was a mistake and an act of self preservation by the WRU. Our gameplan is ancient and ineffective. The players we have are lacking in the skills, confidence and vision required in the modern game. This has come about by having regional teams which are so off the pace of modern rugby as to be laughable. It's like watching Port Vale play Man City. Until the WHOLE game in Wales joins the 21st century in terms of structure, governance, funding and leadership, there is no way out. Years of pain lie ahead.

Spot on đź‘Ź 

The whole system, and culture needs to change for our small nation to have any success in the future.

We simply aren't producing enough talent to play at international level, and those who are, talented enough, aren't playing well enough as they aren't being pushed by anyone in their position.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Nepotism is killing us at all levels. The wru are still arrogant enough to believe they are dining at the top level with the best. The reality is we are dining at the local chippy. They talk of the great rivalry between us and the all blacks, a team we haven't beaten for 70 odd years. It's laughable.

At junior level, we are losing so many potentially gifted kids because they don't know the right people, go to the wrong school, or aren't deemed to be big enough, or don't play to a certain system. The kids that get through have smoke blown up their arsed and walk around like the kiddies. They are put though ridiculous training and conditioning programs that make them susceptible to injury, and aren't allowed to play with their mates in under 16 or youth sides. They hardly play. They have no competition because the kids who are discarded because they went to the wrong school, don't know the right people etc etc are given no feedback, no development plan, and are made to believe they just aren't good enough. Many go to play football, many just knock sport on the head 

The arrogance within the Welsh game is unbelievable. I was told the other day that a journalist who used to work with Welsh rugby now works with Welsh football and is amazed at the difference in the reception he had between the two. The union, and the majority of players treated him like dirt and had no respect for him. On the other hand the Welsh FA can't do enough for him. And a global superstar like Gareth Bale was supposed to be open, and down to earth. Some of the names mentioned that spoke to this journalist like diet haven't achieved anything anywhere near what Bale has. Just who do these people think they are?

Absolutely toxic to the core 
The sad thing is nothing has really changed in 50 years Wales very much a bunch of parochial amateurs which is no longer fit for purpose. We will never change and until we get a talented group of players together like we did in 70’s and more recently with good coaching, we are doomed to fail. 



Edited by Why - 13 February 2023 at 5:33am
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 5:57am
Reading this thread it's apparent that being from the Ospreys is presented as a rationale / explanation for how Wales perform. I'm tempted to ask how exactly, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't align on it.

So we will have to disagree on Hawkins.
For me, he's the most gifted 10/12 we've produced in a decade, with a caveat to Aneurin Owen (the 12) from the Dragons, who has had a rotten run of injuries over the last 2 years.

Joe Roberts could easily find himself at the RWC, he will surely be in the extended 45 man squad Gats picks for the pre event training camp if he stays fit, as I'd expect Tuipolotu and Morse to be (both 8's) along with the likes of Conbeer, Blacker, Costelow, Mcloed and Dan Davis from us.









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 6:12am
The WRU have been quite happy for our regions to be a laughing stock in Europe let's see how they react now it's their 5th region people are laughing at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mrfwon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 8:14am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Kids seem much more interested in football these days. Not being funny but there's a bunch of stuff that is putting people off. Drinking culture, cliques, concussion & injury risks and now we can add misogyny to the list. Participation has been going down for a long time. Crowds aren't turning up. Just compare and contrast the FAW and the WRU. Rugby in general has big problems - Welsh Rugby is shambolic.

The regions have to look at themselves too. It's as if none of us know how to make any money to become self-sustaining. All four regions are poorly supported at the gates, and given two of the regions are city based, it's shocking that stadiums are not even half full.
We can't just expect people to turn up, more has to be offered to tempt people in, and keep them in once there. We do an ok job with the barn, but it's all a bit wish wash and half hearted.
Not sure what the pre-match offerings are like at Cardiff, Ospreys and Newport these days, but from previous experiences at the Liberty, there's absolutely nothing going on, not even in the car parks.
Scarlets!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 8:53am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Reading this thread it's apparent that being from the Ospreys is presented as a rationale / explanation for how Wales perform. I'm tempted to ask how exactly, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't align on it.

So we will have to disagree on Hawkins.
For me, he's the most gifted 10/12 we've produced in a decade, with a caveat to Aneurin Owen (the 12) from the Dragons, who has had a rotten run of injuries over the last 2 years.

Joe Roberts could easily find himself at the RWC, he will surely be in the extended 45 man squad Gats picks for the pre event training camp if he stays fit, as I'd expect Tuipolotu and Morse to be (both 8's) along with the likes of Conbeer, Blacker, Costelow, Mcloed and Dan Davis from u










I do not quite understand this all things Ospreys mentality - I will keep trying to judge as clear eyed as I can. I like this boy Hawkins - for sure he isn't the finished article but his skill set is varied. He has found the defensive side of International rugby particularly tough which I don't think has been helped by North's positional challenges outside him. I would persevere with him but play a more attack minded 10 who plays to the line & can distribute - frankly i would go with either Patchell, Jarrod or Costelow ahead of Biggar. Joe Roberts is going to challenge for sure but firstly Mason Grady has earned the chance to start against England. 

Duhan showed North a clean pair of heels on Saturday which suggests that North is not as quick as he used to be. He was saved in that particular instance by a great covering tackle from Tschiunza. LRZ comes in surely on one wing & then I am struggling with the back 3. Liam is defensively frail & a bit of a penalty machine so Halfpenny for me to give us that solidity plus of course goalkicking. On the other wing Dyer must learn to stay calm & take the opportunities when they come. He has botched a couple of good chances with poor hands. Adams looks totally lacking in enthusiasm so perhaps the worst of all ills would be Cuthbert but I would give Conbeer a go. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 9:32am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Reading this thread it's apparent that being from the Ospreys is presented as a rationale / explanation for how Wales perform. I'm tempted to ask how exactly, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't align on it.

So we will have to disagree on Hawkins.
For me, he's the most gifted 10/12 we've produced in a decade, with a caveat to Aneurin Owen (the 12) from the Dragons, who has had a rotten run of injuries over the last 2 years.

Joe Roberts could easily find himself at the RWC, he will surely be in the extended 45 man squad Gats picks for the pre event training camp if he stays fit, as I'd expect Tuipolotu and Morse to be (both 8's) along with the likes of Conbeer, Blacker, Costelow, Mcloed and Dan Davis from u










I do not quite understand this all things Ospreys mentality - I will keep trying to judge as clear eyed as I can. I like this boy Hawkins - for sure he isn't the finished article but his skill set is varied. He has found the defensive side of International rugby particularly tough which I don't think has been helped by North's positional challenges outside him. I would persevere with him but play a more attack minded 10 who plays to the line & can distribute - frankly i would go with either Patchell, Jarrod or Costelow ahead of Biggar. Joe Roberts is going to challenge for sure but firstly Mason Grady has earned the chance to start against England. 

Duhan showed North a clean pair of heels on Saturday which suggests that North is not as quick as he used to be. He was saved in that particular instance by a great covering tackle from Tschiunza. LRZ comes in surely on one wing & then I am struggling with the back 3. Liam is defensively frail & a bit of a penalty machine so Halfpenny for me to give us that solidity plus of course goalkicking. On the other wing Dyer must learn to stay calm & take the opportunities when they come. He has botched a couple of good chances with poor hands. Adams looks totally lacking in enthusiasm so perhaps the worst of all ills would be Cuthbert but I would give Conbeer a go. 



A lot of the Osprey stuff is said with tongue in cheek however it has been proved that some of them are not really good enough now for international rugby or some are past their peak. 
Hawkins is undoubtedly a talent but he not been that spectacular as of yet and was very quiet Saturday but then again playing outside Biggar doesn’t help at moment. 
It’s a bit like Lake everybody seems to think he some sort of messiah yet this season he has been behind Baldwin when the big games come around. He is a very good player who carries well but his best performances so far this season have been off the bench against tiring defences.
Osprey bating is a bit of fun but there is some truth to the humour. 

She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 9:55am
Originally posted by jeremy windell jeremy windell wrote:


At junior level, we are losing so many potentially gifted kids because they don't know the right people, go to the wrong school, or aren't deemed to be big enough, or don't play to a certain system. The kids that get through have smoke blown up their arsed and walk around like the kiddies. They are put though ridiculous training and conditioning programs that make them susceptible to injury, and aren't allowed to play with their mates in under 16 or youth sides. They hardly play. They have no competition because the kids who are discarded because they went to the wrong school, don't know the right people etc etc are given no feedback, no development plan, and are made to believe they just aren't good enough. Many go to play football, many just knock sport on the head 


Apologies for removing half your post (completely agree with it all) but there's a few bits in there I particularly agree with. This was something flagged in the meet the management meeting last week about how we funnel down the volume of players so starkly between 15 and 18 and there's very little opportunity if you're not in the mix early enough, it's bonkers that as players develop the most physically and in their rugby knowledge we look at less and less year on year, at those ages we should be casting the net as far as possible and then looking to mop up anything missed from 18 to 20.

The over training and lack of game time is spot on, Scarlets 18's training on a Saturday morning resulting in players not able to play for their club on a Saturday afternoon doesn't make a great deal of sense, especially when they're not in the 23 for the Wed/Sun Scarlets game. Feedback to players what to work on or how they get back in seems limited.

Aside from missing out on talent it also creates a negativity and resentment towards regional rugby, i.e. a generation of fans. A good pathway experience is bigger than a few players that make it to regional and international rugby, it's about building links between clubs and regions and a positive attitude towards all rugby.

One thing on the player drop off after 18 in Wales is that we fare much better than the majority of countries of those who transition from junior to senior rugby, the drop off of registered juniors v seniors in Wales is about 35%, Scotland is about 50% and Ireland is about 75%. There may be some nuance in how they're recorded but it's clear to me that if Wales is to improve then it needs to be built around the relationships with club rugby because that's largely the stable of the game in Wales.

There are some areas where schools systems are strong but the consistency of approach in schools varies hugely so we've got to use the network we've got which is the club game, we really need to find a model that works for us based on facts and not do things like point to the Irish system where the landscape is completely different. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 10:22am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by jeremy windell jeremy windell wrote:


At junior level, we are losing so many potentially gifted kids because they don't know the right people, go to the wrong school, or aren't deemed to be big enough, or don't play to a certain system. The kids that get through have smoke blown up their arsed and walk around like the kiddies. They are put though ridiculous training and conditioning programs that make them susceptible to injury, and aren't allowed to play with their mates in under 16 or youth sides. They hardly play. They have no competition because the kids who are discarded because they went to the wrong school, don't know the right people etc etc are given no feedback, no development plan, and are made to believe they just aren't good enough. Many go to play football, many just knock sport on the head 


Apologies for removing half your post (completely agree with it all) but there's a few bits in there I particularly agree with. This was something flagged in the meet the management meeting last week about how we funnel down the volume of players so starkly between 15 and 18 and there's very little opportunity if you're not in the mix early enough, it's bonkers that as players develop the most physically and in their rugby knowledge we look at less and less year on year, at those ages we should be casting the net as far as possible and then looking to mop up anything missed from 18 to 20.

The over training and lack of game time is spot on, Scarlets 18's training on a Saturday morning resulting in players not able to play for their club on a Saturday afternoon doesn't make a great deal of sense, especially when they're not in the 23 for the Wed/Sun Scarlets game. Feedback to players what to work on or how they get back in seems limited.

Aside from missing out on talent it also creates a negativity and resentment towards regional rugby, i.e. a generation of fans. A good pathway experience is bigger than a few players that make it to regional and international rugby, it's about building links between clubs and regions and a positive attitude towards all rugby.

One thing on the player drop off after 18 in Wales is that we fare much better than the majority of countries of those who transition from junior to senior rugby, the drop off of registered juniors v seniors in Wales is about 35%, Scotland is about 50% and Ireland is about 75%. There may be some nuance in how they're recorded but it's clear to me that if Wales is to improve then it needs to be built around the relationships with club rugby because that's largely the stable of the game in Wales.

There are some areas where schools systems are strong but the consistency of approach in schools varies hugely so we've got to use the network we've got which is the club game, we really need to find a model that works for us based on facts and not do things like point to the Irish system where the landscape is completely different. 

Good thoughtful  posts.  THANKS  gentleman. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 10:53am
The academy system doesn't work for me in the most part, I understand the rationale behind my biggest gripe but the fact that once a player is taken into the academy they are't allowed to play for their 'home' team or any other sport annoys me! 

The fixtures don't really clash & for me I would want my child to be developing their rugby brain by playing for their club as well as the academy. My son plays football & there are 2 boys who are un the Scarlets U16 academy & now they're not allowed to represent the football club they have been playing for for the last few years! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 10:58am
Probably worth saying just so there's no confusion that would be the contracted academy players rather than those just in the 16's/18's squads who can play for their clubs, albeit it can still be disruptive.

I've never really got why the regional 18's and 16's games aren't at the end of the seasons following players fighting for a spot throughout the college/school/club seasons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 11:06am
On the Wales v Scotland bit of the topic there seems to be a bit of an unnecessary narrative building of us v them and we'll carry the criticism from the Welsh squad, it may just be a tactic to bring them together but regardless of what's happening in Welsh rugby when you ship 50+ to NZ, lose to Georgia then ship 30+ points in the preceding 3 games against a depleted Australia, Ireland and Scotland you've got to accept some criticism!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Probably worth saying just so there's no confusion that would be the contracted academy players rather than those just in the 16's/18's squads who can play for their clubs, albeit it can still be disruptive.

I've never really got why the regional 18's and 16's games aren't at the end of the seasons following players fighting for a spot throughout the college/school/club seasons.

Not from what I am aware.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 11:15am
They definitely can, obviously if they're in the 23 on the Sunday they won't play on a Saturday but those not in the matchday squad can and do play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 11:28am
By the second half it was becoming increasingly obvious that our backs were not able to penetrate the Scottish line and their defensive line was increasing in confidence and putting more pressure on us when we had the ball, which we proceeded to waste with poor kicks which were not chased with any enthusiasm or purpose.
With their possession, Scotland varied their play and in between attempted line breaks, were also able to kick for the corners and territory in our 22, keeping us well away from their line, and putting more pressure on us. It is something that Ireland also do very well, but our kicking seems to be limited to poor up and unders, box kicks, or aimless kicks straight at the Scottish back 3. Some say that statistically the sides that kick most, win more games, which is boring, but only effective if you kick with a great deal more thought and accuracy than we do, and also needs others to chase with pace and passion.
We must use the next fortnight to formulate a strategy for England and also practice legal ways of combating their rolling maul as their heavyweight pack are deadly from 5m out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 February 2023 at 11:32am
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

They definitely can, obviously if they're in the 23 on the Sunday they won't play on a Saturday but those not in the matchday squad can and do play.

Apologies, I was told by a parent that their child wasn't permitted to play for their home club even though they weren't playing in the for the academy team.
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