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The Brexit bonus...

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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2022 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Your mixing up logic and the people who vote in the uk

LOL Damit, I knew there was a flaw LOL

I can advise you TBS that is not the only flaw in your argument. Putting the current cost of living increases at the door of Brexit is really stretching credibility to the limit. You may have noticed since early 2020 that we, along with the rest of the World, have been suffering at the hands of Covid. The damage to economies all over the world has been catastrophic. The Uk economy is growing as much if not faster than all other European economies so to paint the repercussions of Brexit as you are is incorrect. 

That's wrong GPR. Your bias is showing through. Data shows the UK economy fell harder and is further behind pre pandemic levels than other economies. It has also been shown that Brexit is exacerbating inflation, bringing in additional costs on top of those all countries are experiencing. You are also mischaracterising what I said (and you say I'm stretching credibility). Brexit isn't soley responsible - it is making things worse. 

My bias is showing through - thats a good one TBS. Have a little read back through the last 20 pages or so if you want to see bias. I did not say that the EU ruined our steel industry - read my comment - in part. I am already on record recently as saying that the de-industrialisation of the Uk over the past 20/30 years has been our biggest mistake by far.

As for a European defence alliance - we already have one its called NATO. Why do we need another expensive layer???? Comments like the British people will have to suffer the consequences of their Brexit decision is the absolute worse case of bias - clearly your opinion matters more & is worth more than 54% of the voting public. 

Yes, all the comments lifted from the Leave campaign. All dishonest propaganda that you appear to have fallen for. Plenty of bias there. And you did blame the EU for the demise of the Steel industry. I did read your comment. That's why I refuted it. As for NATO, did you not notice the noises coming out of America under Trump? America's reliability as a partner has been undermined by his administration. It's only a matter of time until the Republicans get in power again and just take a look at the state on them. On top of that you've got the French President calling NATO "brain dead" ... Europe would be wise to ensure it can defend itself without US support if necessary. 

As for my comment about the public sufferring the consequences of Brexit ... what? Do you think it's arrogant to point out the facts? Leave voters were all either complicit or duped. Don't shoot the messenger. And yes, people are suffering as a consequence of this vote. Well I hope people learn from their mistake. Is my opinion more important than theirs ... my opinion counts as much as my vote. And that's just it isn't it GPR ... an opinion. Like I said before, we don't have to agree do we.

Of course we don't have to agree but the least we should expect is to be quoted accurately. "constraints placed on individual member states which contributed, in part, to the demise of our once great Steel Industry" Those were the words I used yesterday - does not read like me blaming the EU for the demise more like playing a part which is what I said. 

As for your inference that NATO is on its last legs because of the state of American politics - this beggers belief. NATO and the strong alliances forged since the 2nd World War have been the single most reason for security in the Northern Hemisphere which has survived regardless of the US leadership. Trump, in many ways, was a fool but one of the things he did get right was calling out many European countries for not living up to their financial commitments. As fro Macron suggesting that NATO is brain dead my temptation is to say well it takes one to know one.........
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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2022 at 12:20pm
"There have been far too many mistakes made by British governments over the years to list but the asset stripping away of our ability to manufacture is by far the greatest. Coal, steel, shipbuilding, automotive, water, power ....... the list goes on. "

In further support of my point in my last post above is a post made yesterday on another thread. No mention made of the EU in this one by the way. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 February 2022 at 4:29pm
Yes I saw what you wrote GPR. You keep telling us stuff that we all heard during the referendum campaign. It was hyperbole then, it still is now. You like to tell us that Brexit is a good idea, how undemocratic the EU is and how bad it was for us, yet none of it is true. You might think it's true but I think you were sold a pup ... like a great many were to be fair. You bemoaned Johnson's handling of Brexit and posited that opportunities are being missed. What did you think Brexit was about? I guess any person can say what it was about for them personally but perhaps we ought to look at the personalities and money behind the Leave campaign ... then it becomes perfectly apparent what it was about. Like I said, you can't seperate Brexit from this government and their backers. It's their project, their mandate and their motives. I didn't like what I saw in the run up to 2016 and I like it even less now. These people are taking you and I and all the rest of us for a ride. Our problems are, for the greatest part, a consequence of dire domestic governance and not the EU. So yes, I do think the electorate made a big dumb mistake and I'm not afraid to say it. I can only hope that it's put a few more nails in the UK coffin so we can get on with the job of rebuilding Wales and doing a decent job of it.

If my opinion upsets you, so be it. I don't mean to personally upset you. I respect you but I don't have to like what you say or voted for. I'm sure you feel likewise.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2022 at 8:17am
Originally posted by totallybiasedscarlet totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Yes I saw what you wrote GPR. You keep telling us stuff that we all heard during the referendum campaign. It was hyperbole then, it still is now. You like to tell us that Brexit is a good idea, how undemocratic the EU is and how bad it was for us, yet none of it is true. You might think it's true but I think you were sold a pup ... like a great many were to be fair. You bemoaned Johnson's handling of Brexit and posited that opportunities are being missed. What did you think Brexit was about? I guess any person can say what it was about for them personally but perhaps we ought to look at the personalities and money behind the Leave campaign ... then it becomes perfectly apparent what it was about. Like I said, you can't seperate Brexit from this government and their backers. It's their project, their mandate and their motives. I didn't like what I saw in the run up to 2016 and I like it even less now. These people are taking you and I and all the rest of us for a ride. Our problems are, for the greatest part, a consequence of dire domestic governance and not the EU. So yes, I do think the electorate made a big dumb mistake and I'm not afraid to say it. I can only hope that it's put a few more nails in the UK coffin so we can get on with the job of rebuilding Wales and doing a decent job of it.

If my opinion upsets you, so be it. I don't mean to personally upset you. I respect you but I don't have to like what you say or voted for. I'm sure you feel likewise.

No worries TBS - nothing on this forum would ever upset me - I understand & respect all views held whether I agree or not. My views on the EU have been long held and have absolutely nothing to do with the Brexit campaign waged in the run up to the referendum. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2022 at 9:02am
More 'good Brexit news' - not.

I think that the farmers voted for Brexit - is that right? If so, they are yet another group who clearly regret doing so.

This is from the President of the NFU:

The government has shown a “total lack of understanding of how food production works”, introduced “completely contradictory policies” on farming, and risks “repeatedly running into crises” through the lack of a post-Brexit plan for UK farming, the leading representative of British farmers will say today.

Minette Batters, president of the National Farmers’ Union, will make a scathing attack on ministers’ failures, unprecedented in recent memory in its ferocity from a farming leader.

Her withering assessment of the government’s actions reflects widespread anger and alarm among many sections of the UK’s farming and food production industries, one of the country’s biggest manufacturing industries and employers. Farmers have suffered from plunging exports and reams of new red tape owing to Brexit, staff shortages as EU seasonal workers have left, and the prospect of floods of cheap low-quality imports after post-Brexit trade deals.


We haven't got to the death of the first-born - yet - but I'm keeping an eye out...
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 February 2022 at 11:30am
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

More 'good Brexit news' - not.

I think that the farmers voted for Brexit - is that right? If so, they are yet another group who clearly regret doing so.

This is from the President of the NFU:

The government has shown a “total lack of understanding of how food production works”, introduced “completely contradictory policies” on farming, and risks “repeatedly running into crises” through the lack of a post-Brexit plan for UK farming, the leading representative of British farmers will say today.

Minette Batters, president of the National Farmers’ Union, will make a scathing attack on ministers’ failures, unprecedented in recent memory in its ferocity from a farming leader.

Her withering assessment of the government’s actions reflects widespread anger and alarm among many sections of the UK’s farming and food production industries, one of the country’s biggest manufacturing industries and employers. Farmers have suffered from plunging exports and reams of new red tape owing to Brexit, staff shortages as EU seasonal workers have left, and the prospect of floods of cheap low-quality imports after post-Brexit trade deals.


We haven't got to the death of the first-born - yet - but I'm keeping an eye out...

Majority of farmers supported Brexit, the NFU did not:


I'm sure we'd all agree the Tories are making a pig's ear of things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KevK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2022 at 3:55pm
This is a fascinating video by the FT taking a look at Brexit and its real world implications:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wO2lWmgEK1Y
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2022 at 4:17pm
Looking forward regarding the tories in Westminster...The real question is ...can the people of the country make the government hold a general election ...there is no mandate as to what has been done and currently we don't live in a democracy....if we have 2 years of these right wing lunatics then I think the country will go from life support to the coffin.....one thing is definate is that we can't go back to the same uk ...the only way forward is a federal state at the minimum , if that is not an option then full independence for Scotland and Wales is the only answer....we have seen the disregard from West minster regarding devolution and I dont think any of us want to go through this type of disaster in 7 years time again 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2022 at 6:43pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

full independence for Scotland and Wales is the only answer....we have seen the disregard from West minster regarding devolution and I dont think any of us want to go through this type of disaster in 7 years time again 


I do not understand how Independence of either Scotland or Wales solves the current problems that either of these countries are facing. 

U.K. is currently putting up corporation tax to 25% to placate the markets to finance public spending. 

The corporation tax in Republic of Ireland is 12.5% 

Last I heard neither SNP or Plaid are arguing to lower corporation taxes. They both want to increase public spending, no?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 October 2022 at 7:23pm
So you are saying staying with the status quo is the best option ....iesu if that was the case we would still be living in caves , or possible still swimming around the seas 
We are an ignored area of the uk , we have been underfunded for years ..historically the people in charge have been happy to toff their caps to Westminster whilst taking their slimey pieces of silver ....The Barnett formulae has undefended us for years (both labour and conservative)..now we have lost 5 billion in funding due to the super fast railway that somehow is called a welsh / english project ....but besides that , to see the tories ignore the devolved goverments , firstly by Johnson who directed money to welsh councils rather than the government,  then the fact that truss still won't speak to the devolved governments...
No for me after many many years of voting,  we need major change or we leave ....theres nothing good currently for anyone living in wales or Scotland by being governed by Westminster 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2022 at 8:27am
I wouldn't describe myself as pro independence prior to the last couple of years but I have to say that I am far nearer voting for it than at any time in the past. There comes a tipping point when Westminster incompetence outweighs the "brains trust" in Cardiff Bay. My word what a choice - any vacancies in NK Oracle?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2022 at 10:16am
I can easily arrange assistance for any forum member Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2022 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

So you are saying staying with the status quo is the best option ....iesu if that was the case we would still be living in caves , or possible still swimming around the seas 

It is an utter failure of imagination to think that things can’t get worse.

Status quo isn’t good - the U.K. is in dire situation whether you think it’s because of the crash in 2007, a decade of Austerity, EU referendum, the Brexit implemented by the Tories, COVID, excessive lockdowns or an uncosted mini-budget I fail to see which of problem Independence solves.

At this point, in Scotland and it Wales it’s still a fantasy that it would solve any of these problems.

Having lived in Wales and Scotland I am pro-independence for EITHER country if the population wants it but we can’t fool ourselves into thinking it will make the worst problems go away.

The Tory party didn’t have a plan for Brexit and thus bungled the country into a mess, a complete mess for 4 years. I think anyone who is Pro-Independence in Wales or Scotland can learn from that. Can’t be hitting and hoping. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2022 at 11:37am
If you have businesses, rejoining the European market his would be the biggest improvement for us....that in itself would increase the wealth of our country .(its the elephant in the room for labour and the torys.)
Removal of crown estate control over our natural resources would be massive for us ...with wind and water power we could generate electricity to the point where everyone in wales could have free electricity and we still could export 50%.

With our tax being spent on our own population, we could very easily increase the quality of life for everyone the country 

Oil terminal supplying england , with charges for the services

Water will be the new oil in the near future , drought levels are growing , we already have Thames water, taking water from welsh resevoirs..

These are only a few points that come to me immediately,  im sure a lot of more people can add the positives for independence 

We have been told for years how worthless we are and how we can't survive without england  , but when analysing the facts behind the statements , then you can see the lies that we have endured for decades 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2022 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

If you have businesses, rejoining the European market his would be the biggest improvement for us....that in itself would increase the wealth of our country .(its the elephant in the room for labour and the torys.)
Removal of crown estate control over our natural resources would be massive for us ...with wind and water power we could generate electricity to the point where everyone in wales could have free electricity and we still could export 50%.

With our tax being spent on our own population, we could very easily increase the quality of life for everyone the country 

Oil terminal supplying england , with charges for the services

Water will be the new oil in the near future , drought levels are growing , we already have Thames water, taking water from welsh resevoirs..

These are only a few points that come to me immediately,  im sure a lot of more people can add the positives for independence 

We have been told for years how worthless we are and how we can't survive without england  , but when analysing the facts behind the statements , then you can see the lies that we have endured for decades 
The force is strong with the oracle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 October 2022 at 2:27pm
And I still asked you to look at my roof ....dodgy you maybe , quality , there is no doubt Wink
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