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The Future for Regional / Professional Rugby

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157cb View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 157cb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2023 at 8:56pm

  Dragons and  Ospreys get 4k at nearly every home game .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seagultaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Pre COVID Welsh rugby was getting to be in a decent place financially .Now ours Cardiff’s and even the Dragons crowds are getting back to where they were before . The financial hits are the COVID loans and the extra debt taken out by the WRU to build the hotel. The trouble is the we can’t afford 4 regions narrative runs on the basis that if something is said often enough it must be true - whereas the actual financial position is better than it has been in many years since professional rugby came along. Whilst some of my best friends are accountants they sometimes just look at the bottom line and forget what a business needs to do to grow and what the actual  purpose of the business is. Sorry an incoherent brain dump but I feel that the WRU  has no interest in the professional game below international level and even that is getting to be a bit inconvenient for them.





The Irish Rugby Union has a turnover similar to the WRU, but they invest 80% of their earnings into the professional game in Ireland and they are very successful at both Provincial and National level.
The WRU is claiming they cannot afford to invest any more than 20% of their earnings into the professional game in Wales, something is not right with that statement surely?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:35pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by Kentexile Kentexile wrote:

Pre COVID Welsh rugby was getting to be in a decent place financially .Now ours Cardiff’s and even the Dragons crowds are getting back to where they were before . The financial hits are the COVID loans and the extra debt taken out by the WRU to build the hotel. The trouble is the we can’t afford 4 regions narrative runs on the basis that if something is said often enough it must be true - whereas the actual financial position is better than it has been in many years since professional rugby came along. Whilst some of my best friends are accountants they sometimes just look at the bottom line and forget what a business needs to do to grow and what the actual  purpose of the business is. Sorry an incoherent brain dump but I feel that the WRU  has no interest in the professional game below international level and even that is getting to be a bit inconvenient for them.





The Irish Rugby Union has a turnover similar to the WRU, but they invest 80% of their earnings into the professional game in Ireland and they are very successful at both Provincial and National level.
The WRU is claiming they cannot afford to invest any more than 20% of their earnings into the professional game in Wales, something is not right with that statement surely?

Agreed there is something askew here .


In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:36pm
Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:42pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....


In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2023 at 10:44pm
Hewitt on today if no
Deal by feb could be a full on strike including regional games
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote lofty evans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 February 2023 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Hewitt on today if no
Deal by feb could be a full on strike including regional games

You have to fight for the right thing sometimes my friend...whatever the cost.

Years of neglect of the players is not on...it ain't on. Ever.

Most have an image of pampered over payed players.....its not ...im thinking of Joe average from , Dafen, Felinfoel, Hendy, Tumble who at 18 dream of making a career of playing for my home town....for me this is what's it all about.


Are we serious about looking after Welsh players and do an Irish culture for the glory for Ireland or are we going to listen to well educated toffs who know far better than me thick Stebo boy cos they went to a more privileged education and therefore deserve the right to say what that future holds for that Dafen, Felinfoel, Hendy, Tumble.

Screw the WRU




Edited by lofty evans - 20 February 2023 at 11:01pm
In 1972, Roy Bergiers scored that try and said "that was for you lofty"

"All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 7:06am
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

What people on here need to do is buy a VR headset then rerun and nausium all of those 'great' games of the last century .....it's unfortunate that we don't see many people looking forward ...we are drinking at the last chance saloon and the fat lady is on the stage .
We have to get this right , and we all need to let go of the past , huge mistakes have been made , money we don't have has been spent and our governing body is being investigated for sexual threats or even worse ....we can't afford to have the idiots remain in charge , but I am not optimistic 
I feel that 
1 The same idiots will remain in charge 
2 The result of the sexual enquiry will be buried and people bought off
3 The blazers at junior club level will still want their free bees 
4 The regions will lose players 
5 Our best players will have success only at french Japan level 
6 We will needlessly spend money on really poor coaches at youth and amateur levels 
7 Future top level coaches will still take contracts with us but deep down they will know that winning anything will be next to non existant and any up and coming player will sign for a big overseas club 
8 Wales could be successful if a top coch can pull together the players from around the world 

And that last point is really the only one that most of the Welsh population care about ...The I'm Welsh for 90 minutes every six nations Saturday ...I will spend my money , I will wear a stupid daffodil and I will mumble my way through the national anthem ...but I have no idea who those 25 players are and I have no idea what club they play for ....

Sums up my worst fears quite nicely Oracle. The fat lady ain't just on the stage she is on the final verse. Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 8:59am
I’m getting past caring I’ve supported the Scarlets for over 50 years. We are being dictated to by a bunch of small minded valley boys who think they are so important that they deserve to be treated like royalty by the WRU. 
Yes we need to do better to attract more investment and we need to do better to attract more fans, winning helps, but we are now being asked to do it with both hands and feet tied behind our backs.
How about inviting Sir Jim Ratcliffe down to the Brive game and show him what the Scarlets are all about. He’s got a few spare quid and is looking to invest in sport. 
Just think if we had an investor so that we could be independent of  the WRU. 


Edited by Why - 21 February 2023 at 8:59am
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote pillory Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 9:27am
I want the Scarlets to continue to exist at the top table. It's about more than sport, this is culture and place - they are my connection to where I'm from.

Pretend economists can look at the wider region incorporating Swansea and say it's silly to have two such regions - but those are paper economics that overlook some very obvious facts.

Simon Muderack on the latest Scrum V podcast episode is very impressive as ever. It made me proud - they really get the connection they embody to west Wales and to the town. This is about identity and the "social" dimension, as he put it.

He said we are fortunate enough to have a pool of around 10 benefactors who are thankfully prepared to put their hands in their pockets.

PRB wants the regions to simply do better at commercial, at revenue-making. I think they need investment in commercial strategy and talent to make that happen, they need help getting into the kinds of networks and rolling out the kinds of ideas that may make a difference.

I fear the rather facile idea of "there's not enough money to go around" (despite the WRU having up to £41m from CVC that it is apparently duty-bound to invest in anything other than rugby) is gaining negative traction at this juncture. Cutting a region is not something that could be walked back from.

Fingers-crossed, I'm hopeful Simon and the team will continue making the best case for west Wales and Llanelli.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 9:55am
Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:06am
I am afraid the attraction of playing for Wales has been diminished markedly by recent events. Add in the fact that in exchange foe allowing you to play for Wales if you do not have 60 caps you must accept a 30% reduction in salary which is being presented as 80% plus 20% performance related & thats if you are lucky enough to be offered a contract.

The 60 cap rule is dead in the water. The attraction of Welsh caps & France 2023 can surely be judged by Hawkins signing for Exeter. We all need to brace ourselves for more bad news with guys like Jac Morgan, Dewi Lake etc out of contract. I listened to Simon Muderack's video chat & he confirmed that it has been 5 weeks since the heads of agreement was signed & remarkably the full contract he is yet to see. The reality is we are very unlikely to see any concrete offers to players before April at best. By then the exodus trickle could well have become a torrent. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:06am
Yeah we’ll look like the premier league football. With teams of overseas players and a couple of Welsh players we are able to retain.

Zero incentive to play in wales now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:08am
The players wanting the 60 cap rule ended they're basically saying we wanna play elsewhere. Why else would they want it scrapped. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:08am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 
not sure there is that much money in england at the mo tbh, the top welsh players will be fine, there are to be brutally honest a lot of welsh pro players who are simply not good enough to be playing top flight rugby, how many games have the dragons won in last 2 years of lge rughy? Look at the ospreys second string last week. No body is going to be looking to sign many of those squad players and there a few here and at the blues who are in the same boat. I feel for them but that’s life sadly
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 February 2023 at 10:45am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Originally posted by lofty evans lofty evans wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Getting rid of the 60 cap rule is gonna leave the welsh regions with the dregs. No bonus incentive either is a bad idea. 

Can we get the other SA14 back....dregs are you real.....



If players don't have to play for a region to qualify for wales there's gonna be an exodus. The whole reason this is occurring is players want financial stability. Something they'll get in spades playing in England or France. 
not sure there is that much money in england at the mo tbh, the top welsh players will be fine, there are to be brutally honest a lot of welsh pro players who are simply not good enough to be playing top flight rugby, how many games have the dragons won in last 2 years of lge rughy? Look at the ospreys second string last week. No body is going to be looking to sign many of those squad players and there a few here and at the blues who are in the same boat. I feel for them but that’s life sadly

Fair point but on the flip side sometimes an organisation can see potentials in players. We've signed players that we've thought who the heck are they and have excelled. Tadgh a prime example. 


Edited by SA14 - 21 February 2023 at 10:46am
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