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Gate12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 April 2022 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Also I'm not sure the best use of the distribution pot is bringing older players back to Wales any more, it worked for a bit but the landscape has changed now.

Faletau seemed perennially injured at Bath - so bringing him back for 2 seasons or so either side of RWC seems a decent investment, especially as he’s head and shoulders above Wales’ the alternatives in that position. 

How much Cardiff will see of him remains to be seen.


I'm unconvinced that is a decent investment, there's no guarantees of form and fitness regardless of where they play.

North is the big recent returnee that was above 60 caps and his contribution towards team Wales hasn't been any greater than previous, and the contribution towards regional rugby has been far from anything to shout about. If an English or French club is prepared to pay him big money great, Welsh rugby can use that money elsewhere.

For simplicities sake say there's 20 million in the PRA pot for distribution to the regions a year (this includes the money for the 38), is paying Faletau and North 1 million of this better for Welsh rugby than say having Ratti and Tom Rogers in the the 38 and all the regions having an additional 150k each to spend on their squads? With Wales still having access to Faletau and North.

I can see the value in the 60 cap rule which allows us to bring the likes of Johhny Williams and Josh Adams in and it's great to reward the loyalty of those who are above 60 caps who've stayed, but I'm unconvinced that bringing back some of the highest earners is good value.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 April 2022 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Also I'm not sure the best use of the distribution pot is bringing older players back to Wales any more, it worked for a bit but the landscape has changed now.

Faletau seemed perennially injured at Bath - so bringing him back for 2 seasons or so either side of RWC seems a decent investment, especially as he’s head and shoulders above Wales’ the alternatives in that position. 

How much Cardiff will see of him remains to be seen.


I'm unconvinced that is a decent investment, there's no guarantees of form and fitness regardless of where they play.

North is the big recent returnee that was above 60 caps and his contribution towards team Wales hasn't been any greater than previous, and the contribution towards regional rugby has been far from anything to shout about. If an English or French club is prepared to pay him big money great, Welsh rugby can use that money elsewhere.

For simplicities sake say there's 20 million in the PRA pot for distribution to the regions a year (this includes the money for the 38), is paying Faletau and North 1 million of this better for Welsh rugby than say having Ratti and Tom Rogers in the the 38 and all the regions having an additional 150k each to spend on their squads? With Wales still having access to Faletau and North.

I can see the value in the 60 cap rule which allows us to bring the likes of Johhny Williams and Josh Adams in and it's great to reward the loyalty of those who are above 60 caps who've stayed, but I'm unconvinced that bringing back some of the highest earners is good value.

I have never been a fan of the 60 cap rule & you make some very valid points. Pivac moans on about not having access to players based in England yet continually selects them ahead of Welsh based players even in very marginal calls like Sheedy & Tompkins. 

Welsh players should be allowed to play wherever they want - the only yardstick of whether they get selected to play for Wales should be how good they are. South Africa don't seem to have any major issues in selecting half of their squad from clubs all over Europe & Japan so why should Wales be different.

As you correctly point out if some of top earners in Welsh rugby were being funded by French/Japanese teams that would allow more investment in the regions & allow the next generation of starts to emerge. It is is misnomer to suggest that paying Liam Williams £400k per year is somehow good value for Welsh rugby because only 20% comes directly from the region. That 80% or £320k per year comes out of Welsh rugby's coffers whichever way to look as it. How many Tom Rogers, Joe Roberts, Harri O'Connors, Jac Prices could be funded by that money. 

The argument put forward by many of course is that the regions would not be as successful without their stars. My answer to that is have a look at the current URC table and tell me thats true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2022 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:


I'm unconvinced that is a decent investment, there's no guarantees of form and fitness regardless of where they play.

North is the big recent returnee that was above 60 caps and his contribution towards team Wales hasn't been any greater than previous, and the contribution towards regional rugby has been far from anything to shout about. If an English or French club is prepared to pay him big money great, Welsh rugby can use that money elsewhere.

For simplicities sake say there's 20 million in the PRA pot for distribution to the regions a year (this includes the money for the 38), is paying Faletau and North 1 million of this better for Welsh rugby than say having Ratti and Tom Rogers in the the 38 and all the regions having an additional 150k each to spend on their squads? With Wales still having access to Faletau and North.

I can see the value in the 60 cap rule which allows us to bring the likes of Johhny Williams and Josh Adams in and it's great to reward the loyalty of those who are above 60 caps who've stayed, but I'm unconvinced that bringing back some of the highest earners is good value.

All your points are good and I think fair assessment of the pros-and-cons. 

I would say Wales did win a 6N title with North at 13 and to some extent I would say that was a success, he got a few caps at 13 for the Os before that and if he had been in England he may well have not had the time or opportunity to do that. 

For me, he is the most irreplaceable player for Wales at the moment given our lack of a coherent centre partnership. 

Given his performances in the 6N this year, I’d say that Faletau is potentially the next in line for ‘irreplaceable players’ that Wales need. Moreso than Ken or AWJ now that some replacements have emerged in Ryan and Rowlands.

Each specific case has its merit but I get the point that fundamentally paying 300k-500k for any one individual who might be injured for 50% of a season is more likely to be a dud investment than either a 300k NWQ or three 100k younger players. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 3:46pm
Toloun beat l irish but lirish scored a world class try ospreys got their 4 trys but drags still in it 29 24 htime. Dragons young ten is good

Edited by RR1972 - 08 May 2022 at 3:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reesytheexile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 4:31pm
Ospreys are favourites now for Welsh shield. Our home loss to the Dragons is really going to hurt us and the Os pack is a real weapon for them fully laden. We need a big crowd for our last game v Stormers 🙏

Edited by reesytheexile - 08 May 2022 at 4:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Winston Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 4:36pm
Looks like challenge cup next term 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Grammar School Boy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 5:32pm
Originally posted by Winston Winston wrote:

Looks like challenge cup next term 

That is where we belong right now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 5:33pm
Ospreys look like they picked up a few injuries to webb and cuthbert. They are a boring team but are decent at home . Losung to the dragons at home was a dreadful result
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 7:17pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Ospreys look like they picked up a few injuries to webb and cuthbert. They are a boring team but are decent at home . Losung to the dragons at home was a dreadful result

I have no problems with being a boring team if the team wins. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 May 2022 at 7:32pm
There is thatWink la rochelle played well yday i cAn see them beating racing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 7:16am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Toloun beat l irish but lirish scored a world class try ospreys got their 4 trys but drags still in it 29 24 htime. Dragons young ten is good

That London Irish FB - Henry Arundell scored a quite brilliant, length of the field try. This lad is a fantastic prospect at 15 & qualifies for Wales. Time for Pivac to make a move. Whilst the young man has played all his age grade rugby in England he just may be interested in playing for Wales as another very young FB - Freddie Steward is already playing for England.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 7:20am
In fairness I would suggest that the Ospreys deserve to be top Welsh team as they have won 2 more games than us. They will get battered in the Champions Cup. Challenge Cup will give us a stepping stone on our journey up the table. European glory is way over the horizon at this point in time for any Welsh club/region.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 9:49am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

In fairness I would suggest that the Ospreys deserve to be top Welsh team as they have won 2 more games than us. They will get battered in the Champions Cup. Challenge Cup will give us a stepping stone on our journey up the table. European glory is way over the horizon at this point in time for any Welsh club/region.
If you read the Osprey thread on Gwlad they are now world beaters. 
They are probably a bit ahead of us at moment but let’s not forget they are a bit further down the coaching road than us.
The good thing about the Ospreys is they appear to be developing young Welsh players which will relieve load on us and be good for Welsh side. 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 9:55am
The ospreys pack is good and they have been able to turn the libery into a bit of a fortress this year won 7 home games including vs ulster and munster. On the road they don’t just lose they get stuffed, they don’t strike me as a top 8 team but they will give most teams a game on their home patch. The drags and the blues play well in patches but they are soft and fold when under pressure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 10:19am
It's been a poor season for all the Welsh sides really, our only saving grace is that we have managed to get 12 bonus points throughout the season, without those we would be a lot lower down.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 May 2022 at 10:28am
We are a good side when we click , but we need to stop teams scoring when we are not clicking, can see the stormers looking to attack us around the fringes and with their driving maul
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