| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
Rob o'r Bont 
Veteran
Dr. Optimist
Joined: 03 May 2008
Location: Bont
Status: Offline
Points: 14278
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Posted: 21 March 2023 at 9:02am |
|
It's a tad ironic that on leaving the EU we lost the the right to transfer refugees and migrants back to the EU country in which they arrived, something that was always possible under the European asylum system known as the Dublin regulation.
|
|
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
GPR - Rochester
Veteran
Joined: 01 December 2014
Location: Rhydcymerau
Status: Offline
Points: 17139
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 9:03am |
 Oracle wrote:
I totally agree , but the point I was making is the fact that there are people in the boats ...by just saying boats I feel it removes the human side of the equation ...We should be processing all claims and then reacting accordingly ..the only problem is that we have no way of returning a lot of people back to their country as we have burned all our bridges... Ironical if it's the right word but Braverman is now intending to send unattended children to Rwanda, which I think is abhorant , but for the 200 migrants being sent there we now in return have to accept 200 Rwandans back in return ...the selection of the people will be down Rwanda , so who knows what type of people they are ..and the tax payer is paying hundreds of millions of pounds ...disgusting on so many fronts |
I agree 100% with you Oracle. The current policy, if you can call it that, is just downright bonkers on so many levels.
|
|
dr_martinov
Veteran
Joined: 06 August 2005
Location: Tycoch
Status: Offline
Points: 13225
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 2:02pm |
Well, Johnson's Partygate defence dossier is in the public domain. In it he admits misleading Parliament but states it was not intentional. He also says "there is not a single document that indicates that I received any warning or advice that any event broke or may have broken the rules of guidance". This is a strange argument because you generally cannot use this to defend breaking the law, as it is rare to expect written warnings in advance that your actions would be illegal.
In a nutshell he is using "but nobody told me it was against the rules" as his primary defence, i.e. that he was too incompetent to understand the rules he had been telling the public to follow and that he himself implemented. As a result of his inability to understand what he said, it does not constitute deliberately misleading Parliament as he actually did not understand in the first place and no-one explained it to him properly. He is also stating he takes "full responsibility" at the same time, if course.
It needs to be repeated but THIS was our Prime Minister. He was and is utterly pathetic. Some sympathy is due: he admits he couldn't understand his own words and, with the amount of BS he spouts, this at least is understandable. What is not understandable is how any political party, or voting public for that matter, made a self-confessed idiot (the alternative is a compulsive liar; everyone knows this is the actual reality) the PM.
|
|
ap sior
Veteran
Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 11056
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 2:24pm |
dr_martinov wrote:
Well, Johnson's Partygate defence dossier is in the public domain. In it he admits misleading Parliament but states it was not intentional. He also says "there is not a single document that indicates that I received any warning or advice that any event broke or may have broken the rules of guidance". This is a strange argument because you generally cannot use this to defend breaking the law, as it is rare to expect written warnings in advance that your actions would be illegal.
In a nutshell he is using "but nobody told me it was against the rules" as his primary defence, i.e. that he was too incompetent to understand the rules he had been telling the public to follow and that he himself implemented. As a result of his inability to understand what he said, it does not constitute deliberately misleading Parliament as he actually did not understand in the first place and no-one explained it to him properly. He is also stating he takes "full responsibility" at the same time, if course.
It needs to be repeated but THIS was our Prime Minister. He was and is utterly pathetic. Some sympathy is due: he admits he couldn't understand his own words and, with the amount of BS he spouts, this at least is understandable. What is not understandable is how any political party, or voting public for that matter, made a self-confessed idiot (the alternative is a compulsive liar; everyone knows this is the actual reality) the PM. |
Been following updates on Twitter and the BBC website.
He's basically trashing the Inquiry, the Committee, his then Director of Communications, Jack Doyle, Cummings, who he backed up to the hilt on his trip to Barnard Castle. 4 of the Committee are Tory MP's. He's certainly not making any friends with this dossier.
|
|
Oracle
Veteran
Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3566
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 2:52pm |
|
He will turn on anyone , people who think he might have been their friend are now going to see what a distrustful, devious two face pathological lier....This will fracture the Tory party even further ...I expect to see snakeoil sunak to keep a low profile over the next few weeks ...I'm not sure if Cummins will make a public statement in the next few weeks , but I feel that Boris is nervous as to what Cummins will make public ...he's been waiting until the time when he can maximize the impact of his information ....2 psychopaths going head to head
|
|
RR1972
Veteran
Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 17480
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 4:48pm |
Oracle wrote:
I totally agree , but the point I was making is the fact that there are people in the boats ...by just saying boats I feel it removes the human side of the equation ...We should be processing all claims and then reacting accordingly ..the only problem is that we have no way of returning a lot of people back to their country as we have burned all our bridges... Ironical if it's the right word but Braverman is now intending to send unattended children to Rwanda, which I think is abhorant , but for the 200 migrants being sent there we now in return have to accept 200 Rwandans back in return ...the selection of the people will be down Rwanda , so who knows what type of people they are ..and the tax payer is paying hundreds of millions of pounds ...disgusting on so many fronts |
but how do we processes all these back logged and new aslyum claims swiftly and fairly ?Where Do we process then?Where do we house people whose claims are being processed? What is the maximum number we can take per annum? How we deal with those whose claims are refused??We all agree the torys are failing but all labour seem to say on the matter is their system will be fairer. Yet no Actual detail? It’s the same with their supporters, they seem loathe to give any actual answers. So come on oracle and co Give us some actual figures and solutions not just emotive soundbites.
Edited by RR1972 - 21 March 2023 at 4:52pm
|
|
roy munster
Veteran
Joined: 30 August 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 15278
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 5:03pm |
Rob o'r Bont wrote:
It's a tad ironic that on leaving the EU we lost the the right to transfer refugees and migrants back to the EU country in which they arrived, something that was always possible under the European asylum system known as the Dublin regulation. |
thats way more than ironic, thats a massive own goal
|
|
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 6:01pm |
RR1972 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
I totally agree , but the point I was making is the fact that there are people in the boats ...by just saying boats I feel it removes the human side of the equation ...We should be processing all claims and then reacting accordingly ..the only problem is that we have no way of returning a lot of people back to their country as we have burned all our bridges... Ironical if it's the right word but Braverman is now intending to send unattended children to Rwanda, which I think is abhorant , but for the 200 migrants being sent there we now in return have to accept 200 Rwandans back in return ...the selection of the people will be down Rwanda , so who knows what type of people they are ..and the tax payer is paying hundreds of millions of pounds ...disgusting on so many fronts |
but how do we processes all these back logged and new aslyum claims swiftly and fairly ?Where Do we process then?Where do we house people whose claims are being processed? What is the maximum number we can take per annum? How we deal with those whose claims are refused??We all agree the torys are failing but all labour seem to say on the matter is their system will be fairer. Yet noActual detail? It’s the same with their supporters, they seem loathe to give any actual answers. So come on oracle and co Give us some actual figures and solutions not just emotive soundbites.
|
Let's see your answers first before we do your homework for you.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 6:02pm |
|
God. I'm biting again aren't I. FFS.
|
|
Oracle
Veteran
Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3566
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 6:50pm |
RR1972 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
I totally agree , but the point I was making is the fact that there are people in the boats ...by just saying boats I feel it removes the human side of the equation ...We should be processing all claims and then reacting accordingly ..the only problem is that we have no way of returning a lot of people back to their country as we have burned all our bridges... Ironical if it's the right word but Braverman is now intending to send unattended children to Rwanda, which I think is abhorant , but for the 200 migrants being sent there we now in return have to accept 200 Rwandans back in return ...the selection of the people will be down Rwanda , so who knows what type of people they are ..and the tax payer is paying hundreds of millions of pounds ...disgusting on so many fronts |
but how do we processes all these back logged and new aslyum claims swiftly and fairly ?Where Do we process then?Where do we house people whose claims are being processed? What is the maximum number we can take per annum? How we deal with those whose claims are refused??We all agree the torys are failing but all labour seem to say on the matter is their system will be fairer. Yet noActual detail? It’s the same with their supporters, they seem loathe to give any actual answers. So come on oracle and co Give us some actual figures and solutions not just emotive soundbites.
|
Interesting questions you pose there , especially the one about how many can we accept , I would of thought someone with views as strong as yours , you would have been in possession of all the facts ..but it looks like you have tricked us again The first fact that you need to accept is that this entire situation has been by design ..The Tory party deliberately refused to continue in the the Dublin Agreement after brexit ....The fact that the refusal to process people was another dilberate act . Currently people are being kept in hotels , which ironically are all owned by Tory donars or MPs ...£150 per person per day ...what a lovel easy income , why would they ever want it stop. Apparently 84% of all applicants reach the requirements to remain in the country , all just want to start again after leaving the devestation of their own countries.... Interesting fact about Rwanda is that even though we are currently paying millions to them , they will only accept 200 , but what isn't being talked about is the fact that we have to accept 200 Rwandans in return , the choice will be entirely down to Rwanda ...thats something that really frightens me
So looking at the big picture , we are seperating families and sending them to Africa , when a lot of these people will be people who have helped the UK in Afghanistan and the middle east , I believe that in the future our help from indigenous peoples won't be forethcoming as they will know that even though they will put their life on the line for us , we in return feel that their lives are worthless....
|
|
RR1972
Veteran
Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 17480
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 7:27pm |
totallybiasedscarlet wrote:
RR1972 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
I totally agree , but the point I was making is the fact that there are people in the boats ...by just saying boats I feel it removes the human side of the equation ...We should be processing all claims and then reacting accordingly ..the only problem is that we have no way of returning a lot of people back to their country as we have burned all our bridges... Ironical if it's the right word but Braverman is now intending to send unattended children to Rwanda, which I think is abhorant , but for the 200 migrants being sent there we now in return have to accept 200 Rwandans back in return ...the selection of the people will be down Rwanda , so who knows what type of people they are ..and the tax payer is paying hundreds of millions of pounds ...disgusting on so many fronts |
but how do we processes all these back logged and new aslyum claims swiftly and fairly ?Where Do we process then?Where do we house people whose claims are being processed? What is the maximum number we can take per annum? How we deal with those whose claims are refused??We all agree the torys are failing but all labour seem to say on the matter is their system will be fairer. Yet noActual detail? It’s the same with their supporters, they seem loathe to give any actual answers. So come on oracle and co Give us some actual figures and solutions not just emotive soundbites.
|
Let's see your answers first before we do your homework for you. |
so when asked for your ideas or your soliutions to the problems you refuse to answer? Hardly suggests you have answers or at least ones you are confident in putting on here
Edited by RR1972 - 21 March 2023 at 7:30pm
|
|
RR1972
Veteran
Joined: 27 April 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 17480
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 7:29pm |
Oracle wrote:
RR1972 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
I totally agree , but the point I was making is the fact that there are people in the boats ...by just saying boats I feel it removes the human side of the equation ...We should be processing all claims and then reacting accordingly ..the only problem is that we have no way of returning a lot of people back to their country as we have burned all our bridges... Ironical if it's the right word but Braverman is now intending to send unattended children to Rwanda, which I think is abhorant , but for the 200 migrants being sent there we now in return have to accept 200 Rwandans back in return ...the selection of the people will be down Rwanda , so who knows what type of people they are ..and the tax payer is paying hundreds of millions of pounds ...disgusting on so many fronts |
but how do we processes all these back logged and new aslyum claims swiftly and fairly ?Where Do we process then?Where do we house people whose claims are being processed? What is the maximum number we can take per annum? How we deal with those whose claims are refused??We all agree the torys are failing but all labour seem to say on the matter is their system will be fairer. Yet noActual detail? It’s the same with their supporters, they seem loathe to give any actual answers. So come on oracle and co Give us some actual figures and solutions not just emotive soundbites.
|
Interesting questions you pose there , especially the one about how many can we accept , I would of thought someone with views as strong as yours , you would have been in possession of all the facts ..but it looks like you have tricked us again The first fact that you need to accept is that this entire situation has been by design ..The Tory party deliberately refused to continue in the the Dublin Agreement after brexit ....The fact that the refusal to process people was another dilberate act . Currently people are being kept in hotels , which ironically are all owned by Tory donars or MPs ...£150 per person per day ...what a lovel easy income , why would they ever want it stop. Apparently 84% of all applicants reach the requirements to remain in the country , all just want to start again after leaving the devestation of their own countries.... Interesting fact about Rwanda is that even though we are currently paying millions to them , they will only accept 200 , but what isn't being talked about is the fact that we have to accept 200 Rwandans in return , the choice will be entirely down to Rwanda ...thats something that really frightens me
So looking at the big picture , we are seperating families and sending them to Africa , when a lot of these people will be people who have helped the UK in Afghanistan and the middle east , I believe that in the future our help from indigenous peoples won't be forethcoming as they will know that even though they will put their life on the line for us , we in return feel that their lives are worthless.... |
btw i’not defending the torys but i have asked you questions or to provide a soloution yet you are unable to actually them, do you not have an answer your willing to put on here? Your rarely shy in posting your views so let’s hear your ideas
Edited by RR1972 - 21 March 2023 at 7:51pm
|
|
Oracle
Veteran
Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3566
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 7:52pm |
You are such a strange Facist ... Let me explain , I have debated with you ....I mentioned you should have known your facts for your current viewpoint ...I mentioned that even though this country foolishly voted for brexit , we were still invited to stay in the Dublin accord , which we foolishly turned down .. I explained that 84% of all applications are accepted , the refusal to process them is just another example of the current government policy ... The money that private hotel owners are making because the government because of their process refusal . Rwanda is just a disgusting and pathetic attempt to try and appease the little Englander and their Facist views
So ....obviously the first thing to be fine is to rejoin the Dublin Accord , we need to sign up civil servants and train them to be able to process these applications , ideally in France , and ship these applicants over , safely . We need to stop the Rwanda nonsense . We need to get the new refugees into accomodation and then to work .. The numbers that could be given access ,is not an issue as we are so short of workers since brexit , there are thousands of jobs needing to be filled ....When we look at countries like Germany , Cyprus and Italy our intake is pretty pathetic ....so this nonsense about the country is to full is just rubbish
|
|
Guests
Guest Group
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 8:39pm |
RR1972 wrote:
totallybiasedscarlet wrote:
RR1972 wrote:
Oracle wrote:
I totally agree , but the point I was making is the fact that there are people in the boats ...by just saying boats I feel it removes the human side of the equation ...We should be processing all claims and then reacting accordingly ..the only problem is that we have no way of returning a lot of people back to their country as we have burned all our bridges... Ironical if it's the right word but Braverman is now intending to send unattended children to Rwanda, which I think is abhorant , but for the 200 migrants being sent there we now in return have to accept 200 Rwandans back in return ...the selection of the people will be down Rwanda , so who knows what type of people they are ..and the tax payer is paying hundreds of millions of pounds ...disgusting on so many fronts |
but how do we processes all these back logged and new aslyum claims swiftly and fairly ?Where Do we process then?Where do we house people whose claims are being processed? What is the maximum number we can take per annum? How we deal with those whose claims are refused??We all agree the torys are failing but all labour seem to say on the matter is their system will be fairer. Yet noActual detail? It’s the same with their supporters, they seem loathe to give any actual answers. So come on oracle and co Give us some actual figures and solutions not just emotive soundbites.
|
Let's see your answers first before we do your homework for you. |
so when asked for your ideas or your soliutions to the problems you refuse to answer? Hardly suggests you have answers or at least ones you are confident in putting on here |
Nice story. Tell it to Readers Digest.
|
|
Oracle
Veteran
Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3566
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 8:40pm |
|
|
|
Oracle
Veteran
Joined: 19 September 2022
Location: North pole
Status: Offline
Points: 3566
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 21 March 2023 at 8:44pm |
Trump supporters saying that they will leave USA if trump found guilty ...luckily for them they didn't finish that wall after all... If only we could get the Tory's to do the same  |
|
Tweet
