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dr_martinov View Drop Down
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    Posted: 16 March 2021 at 9:08am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Quite a list that, chris wyatt quite high up there with 14 tries, quinnell and cawdor with 11 each and the late mathew j watkins with 11....Class players

Am spotting when the forwards appear. Neil Back and Sean Cronin both on 16. Course they had the advantage of playing a lot more HC games due to the success of their teams but still that's quite impressive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 March 2021 at 12:52am
Quite a list that, chris wyatt quite high up there with 14 tries, quinnell and cawdor with 11 each and the late mathew j watkins with 11....Class players
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 7:29pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 7:15pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I find that fans, punters, pundits tend to have a bias towards players who are really really good at one thing. 

Vunipola’s carrying.
Moriarty’s physicality.
Warbuton’s jackling.
Lawes’ big (late) hits. 

Navidi I’d say goes a little bit under the radar because he’s just so good at lots of parts of the game - never goes back in a tackle, can steal a few jackle pens, offloads well, carries reliably etc.

I’d say Tipuric is underrated for the same reason - is incredible at so many aspects of the game but is primarily known for his slick handling, so people think his physicality isn’t as good as others.

When picking a lions team pundits tend to think “who is the best 6?” and think about the ‘stereotypical’ blindside, so basically say “who’s the strongest, most aggressive tackler and carrier?” 

And certainly Navidi isn’t the best tackler or carrier, but when you add up all the other bits he’s a serious serious player.

Good observation and I agree. The pundits tend to go for the obvious rather than the more nuanced or subtle. Ill give one example, allan bateman, he was very good at everything, but scott gibbs got the headlines for his crash bang wallop style of play on the 97 lions and in fairness did it very well. But bateman was a vastly better all round player. Dafydd james is probably in a similar boat, not quite the fastest, big but not quite the biggest, but overall one heck of a player.


Good points.

I think I'm right in saying that at one time, Dafydd James led the overall try-scoring stats for the Heineken cup (as it was called then)?
ashton has it now i’m sure
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 6:33pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

All round workrate, tackling, breakdown, shows heads up skills as well. Having him on the pitch makes players around him a lot better.


I think that’s the point I’m trying to get across. It’s really hard to tell who these players are unless you’re playing on the pitch with them. But they exist in every winning team, the guys that seem to make everyone around them 5% better.
Yeah and it’s no coincidence Wales’ return to form has coincided with the return of Navidi


I think you can add Ken to that theory too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 1:58pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I find that fans, punters, pundits tend to have a bias towards players who are really really good at one thing. 

Vunipola’s carrying.
Moriarty’s physicality.
Warbuton’s jackling.
Lawes’ big (late) hits. 

Navidi I’d say goes a little bit under the radar because he’s just so good at lots of parts of the game - never goes back in a tackle, can steal a few jackle pens, offloads well, carries reliably etc.

I’d say Tipuric is underrated for the same reason - is incredible at so many aspects of the game but is primarily known for his slick handling, so people think his physicality isn’t as good as others.

When picking a lions team pundits tend to think “who is the best 6?” and think about the ‘stereotypical’ blindside, so basically say “who’s the strongest, most aggressive tackler and carrier?” 

And certainly Navidi isn’t the best tackler or carrier, but when you add up all the other bits he’s a serious serious player.

Good observation and I agree. The pundits tend to go for the obvious rather than the more nuanced or subtle. Ill give one example, allan bateman, he was very good at everything, but scott gibbs got the headlines for his crash bang wallop style of play on the 97 lions and in fairness did it very well. But bateman was a vastly better all round player. Dafydd james is probably in a similar boat, not quite the fastest, big but not quite the biggest, but overall one heck of a player.


Good points.

I think I'm right in saying that at one time, Dafydd James led the overall try-scoring stats for the Heineken cup (as it was called then)?
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I find that fans, punters, pundits tend to have a bias towards players who are really really good at one thing. 

Vunipola’s carrying.
Moriarty’s physicality.
Warbuton’s jackling.
Lawes’ big (late) hits. 

Navidi I’d say goes a little bit under the radar because he’s just so good at lots of parts of the game - never goes back in a tackle, can steal a few jackle pens, offloads well, carries reliably etc.

I’d say Tipuric is underrated for the same reason - is incredible at so many aspects of the game but is primarily known for his slick handling, so people think his physicality isn’t as good as others.

When picking a lions team pundits tend to think “who is the best 6?” and think about the ‘stereotypical’ blindside, so basically say “who’s the strongest, most aggressive tackler and carrier?” 

And certainly Navidi isn’t the best tackler or carrier, but when you add up all the other bits he’s a serious serious player.

Good observation and I agree. The pundits tend to go for the obvious rather than the more nuanced or subtle. Ill give one example, allan bateman, he was very good at everything, but scott gibbs got the headlines for his crash bang wallop style of play on the 97 lions and in fairness did it very well. But bateman was a vastly better all round player. Dafydd james is probably in a similar boat, not quite the fastest, big but not quite the biggest, but overall one heck of a player.








Edited by roy munster - 15 March 2021 at 1:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 1:19pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

All round workrate, tackling, breakdown, shows heads up skills as well. Having him on the pitch makes players around him a lot better.

I think that’s the point I’m trying to get across. It’s really hard to tell who these players are unless you’re playing on the pitch with them. But they exist in every winning team, the guys that seem to make everyone around them 5% better.
Yeah and it’s no coincidence Wales’ return to form has coincided with the return of Navidi
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

All round workrate, tackling, breakdown, shows heads up skills as well. Having him on the pitch makes players around him a lot better.

I think that’s the point I’m trying to get across. It’s really hard to tell who these players are unless you’re playing on the pitch with them. But they exist in every winning team, the guys that seem to make everyone around them 5% better.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 12:38pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I find that fans, punters, pundits tend to have a bias towards players who are really really good at one thing. 

Vunipola’s carrying.
Moriarty’s physicality.
Warbuton’s jackling.
Lawes’ big (late) hits. 

Navidi I’d say goes a little bit under the radar because he’s just so good at lots of parts of the game - never goes back in a tackle, can steal a few jackle pens, offloads well, carries reliably etc.

I’d say Tipuric is underrated for the same reason - is incredible at so many aspects of the game but is primarily known for his slick handling, so people think his physicality isn’t as good as others.

When picking a lions team pundits tend to think “who is the best 6?” and think about the ‘stereotypical’ blindside, so basically say “who’s the strongest, most aggressive tackler and carrier?” 

And certainly Navidi isn’t the best at tackler or carrier, but when you add up all the other bits he’s a serious serious player.

That is an excellent point. 

I'd argue Navidi is an excellent tackler and is usually towards the top of numbers game after game but this isn't as flashy as most of the other aspects you mention. All round workrate, tackling, breakdown, shows heads up skills as well. Having him on the pitch makes players around him a lot better.

I remember having a discussion back in the day with Gate12 on Lydiate's role and definitely some similarities although I think Navidi is faster and far better around the ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 12:31pm
I find that fans, punters, pundits tend to have a bias towards players who are really really good at one thing. 

Vunipola’s carrying.
Moriarty’s physicality.
Warbuton’s jackling.
Lawes’ big (late) hits. 

Navidi I’d say goes a little bit under the radar because he’s just so good at lots of parts of the game - never goes back in a tackle, can steal a few jackle pens, offloads well, carries reliably etc.

I’d say Tipuric is underrated for the same reason - is incredible at so many aspects of the game but is primarily known for his slick handling, so people think his physicality isn’t as good as others.

When picking a lions team pundits tend to think “who is the best 6?” and think about the ‘stereotypical’ blindside, so basically say “who’s the strongest, most aggressive tackler and carrier?” 

And certainly Navidi isn’t the best tackler or carrier, but when you add up all the other bits he’s a serious serious player.


Edited by dyniol53 - 15 March 2021 at 12:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 March 2021 at 12:03pm
I have had the utmost respect for Navidi since he beat the Scarlets practically single-handed 3 or 4 seasons ago - when he was just a fringe player for the Wales team (or possibly not even in the squad).
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gaffer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 11:15pm
Originally posted by jeremy windell jeremy windell wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by jeremy windell jeremy windell wrote:

This guy never seems to feature in anyones potential Lions squad.

Beats me as to why not, I think he is a gem of a player.



Great point jezza , I was actually thinking the same thing yesterday. For some unknown reason certain players are more popular. Ive seen lawes picked in many peoples lions 15's  at blindside Lawes? Ritchie? Curry? If you want to know who NOT to pick or get a lousy prediction, try big jim hamilton, clueless. He had james cooney at 9, james ryan in over AWJ and richie at 6...He also predicted wales for the wooden spoon. How is he still a pundit lol

Yet Navidi never mentioned till now?

The man is a machine, he is always doing the dirty work in the thick of the battle, his work rate is phenomenal in defence and attack, also got good hands. The back row balance is far better with him there, it allows the duracell bunny Tipuric to run amok and Faletau to rampage too. What a trio.Smile



Spot on. The balance between the 3 is perfect. They all compliment each other so well.


From Le Tache...

"And while it would be an absolute travesty to leave out Justin Tipuric or Josh Navidi as flankers, I still feel Wales are slightly underpowered, and that the team would be better balanced with a physical specimen on the blind side, where Wales have missed Ross Moriarty. They appear to have a line of aspiring flankers led by James Botham."

...completely barking as usual.
What's going on?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeremy windell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 9:45pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by jeremy windell jeremy windell wrote:

This guy never seems to feature in anyones potential Lions squad.

Beats me as to why not, I think he is a gem of a player.



Great point jezza , I was actually thinking the same thing yesterday. For some unknown reason certain players are more popular. Ive seen lawes picked in many peoples lions 15's  at blindside Lawes? Ritchie? Curry? If you want to know who NOT to pick or get a lousy prediction, try big jim hamilton, clueless. He had james cooney at 9, james ryan in over AWJ and richie at 6...He also predicted wales for the wooden spoon. How is he still a pundit lol

Yet Navidi never mentioned till now?

The man is a machine, he is always doing the dirty work in the thick of the battle, his work rate is phenomenal in defence and attack, also got good hands. The back row balance is far better with him there, it allows the duracell bunny Tipuric to run amok and Faletau to rampage too. What a trio.Smile



Spot on. The balance between the 3 is perfect. They all compliment each other so well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by jeremy windell jeremy windell wrote:

This guy never seems to feature in anyones potential Lions squad.

Beats me as to why not, I think he is a gem of a player.



Great point jezza , I was actually thinking the same thing yesterday. For some unknown reason certain players are more popular. Ive seen lawes picked in many peoples lions 15's  at blindside Lawes? Ritchie? Curry? If you want to know who NOT to pick or get a lousy prediction, try big jim hamilton, clueless. He had james cooney at 9, james ryan in over AWJ and richie at 6...He also predicted wales for the wooden spoon. How is he still a pundit lol

Yet Navidi never mentioned till now?

The man is a machine, he is always doing the dirty work in the thick of the battle, his work rate is phenomenal in defence and attack, also got good hands. The back row balance is far better with him there, it allows the duracell bunny Tipuric to run amok and Faletau to rampage too. What a trio.Smile




Edited by roy munster - 14 March 2021 at 2:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 March 2021 at 11:29am
Been my favourite Welsh player for the last couple of years now.
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