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    Posted: 13 November 2021 at 5:26pm
As James Lowe just said after the Ireland game. Grew up dreaming of being an all black but I wasn’t good enough. The natural progression is to try to be good enough for another. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 10:55am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 


There is something in that comment. I'd specifically state Tier 1 (i.e. SA, NZ, AUS and Argentina). If you had represented those countries at U20 or 2nd team side at senior level then to me that's your team/country. Likewise for France, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland.

Playing for a Tier 2 or 3 country at age grade or non capped level is more of a debate. Halaholo played for Tonga U20's for example, if he knew that meant he was tied to Tonga forever would he have done so?
(By the way I know he's settled with extended family here)
By the very nature of Tonga's standing in global rugby, the rewards for playing for them all through a career, the low number of games, the fact that most of the talent leaves and thus become qualified on residency somewhere else, all means that by staying available to Tonga it offers little in terms of career attainment opportunities.

We have guys like Callum Sheedy, Jonny Williams, Christ Tshiunza and Nick Tompkins & Gareth Anscombe in our Welsh squad that have played for Tier 1 teams (in these cases England at U20, Saxons or in uncapped senior games or for NZ U20).
All are totally legitimate selections, it's just if I made the rules, I would say they made a conscious choice to play for a Tier 1 team in England/NZ. Knowing that the fixture they played in doesn't 'tie' you to that country is frankly, irrelevant, as is having a Granddad born in Pwll etc. For better or worse, players make a conscious choice when they pull on a shirt for a country at adult level.

Story...My daughter is in the Kenyan School swimming championships today...should she succeed she would go on to represent Kenya in an tri country event. Frankly I'd be mortified if that excluded her representing Wales in the future ( not that she is that good by the way). She has Welsh parents, speaks Welsh, considers herself nothing but Welsh, but never lived there. This type of person exists on the planet!


Exactly! And not necessarily with those antecedents.

As either Gate 12 or Kid A said, it’s about where you feel you belong and feel your roots are. 

The answer can be quite different to convention.
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jimmywilde Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 8:10am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

I think its unavoidable in the professional game, Its why alot of Tongan’s / New zealanders and South Africans play for other countries. Huge talent pool and only so many high paying places. Plus convenience too. To earn £20,000 - £50,000 for an autumn series in one if the big rugby nations far outweighs the £500 per game the Tongan national team were reported to be earning.

Here's an idea. Why not every nation agree that a flat rate payment is made for International duty regardless of country financed through World Rugby who could levy all countries for contributions which would depend on ability to pay. 
Objective One funding for Rugby.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 8:10am
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 
Certainly glad that gets us players like Reggie, Sione, Parkes and McNicholl.

I feel there is a bit of confusion. I was talking about the national team, not the regional teams. 
They have to play for a regional team to get their residency in most cases, so the two are linked. Benefits are multiple, IMO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 6:19am
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 


There is something in that comment. I'd specifically state Tier 1 (i.e. SA, NZ, AUS and Argentina). If you had represented those countries at U20 or 2nd team side at senior level then to me that's your team/country. Likewise for France, England, Wales, Ireland, Scotland.

Playing for a Tier 2 or 3 country at age grade or non capped level is more of a debate. Halaholo played for Tonga U20's for example, if he knew that meant he was tied to Tonga forever would he have done so?
(By the way I know he's settled with extended family here)
By the very nature of Tonga's standing in global rugby, the rewards for playing for them all through a career, the low number of games, the fact that most of the talent leaves and thus become qualified on residency somewhere else, all means that by staying available to Tonga it offers little in terms of career attainment opportunities.

We have guys like Callum Sheedy, Jonny Williams, Christ Tshiunza and Nick Tompkins & Gareth Anscombe in our Welsh squad that have played for Tier 1 teams (in these cases England at U20, Saxons or in uncapped senior games or for NZ U20).
All are totally legitimate selections, it's just if I made the rules, I would say they made a conscious choice to play for a Tier 1 team in England/NZ. Knowing that the fixture they played in doesn't 'tie' you to that country is frankly, irrelevant, as is having a Granddad born in Pwll etc. For better or worse, players make a conscious choice when they pull on a shirt for a country at adult level.

Story...My daughter is in the Kenyan School swimming championships today...should she succeed she would go on to represent Kenya in an tri country event. Frankly I'd be mortified if that excluded her representing Wales in the future ( not that she is that good by the way). She has Welsh parents, speaks Welsh, considers herself nothing but Welsh, but never lived there. This type of person exists on the planet!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 November 2021 at 2:21am
Originally posted by Wasp Wasp wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 
Certainly glad that gets us players like Reggie, Sione, Parkes and McNicholl.

I feel there is a bit of confusion. I was talking about the national team, not the regional teams. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 6:15pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 
Certainly glad that gets us players like Reggie, Sione, Parkes and McNicholl.
We're still still here!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SA14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 5:58pm
I think a lot of Southern Hemisphere players aren’t good enough for their national teams so settle for lower tier wales. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wasp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 5:29pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

If you'd rather cheer on a Welsh team featuring 5/6/7 guys who spent their childhoods/teens/ early adult life living in New Zealand/SA/Aus, than a team of guys brought up locally who have links to their communities from birth, then your definition of a National team is very different to mine. 

I feel less and less of a connection and care for the Wales jersey the more I see us plucking absolutely anyone half decent, no matter where they come from. I struggle to see how my thoughts are in the minority. 
When I watch the Scarlets, I really love the fact that so many local kids have been given the chance to perform and have an exciting career. I also love the fact that we import high quality* players to help the team succeed.

*ideally


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

If a person, not brought up in Wales, aspires to represent this great nation, then a little interview or exam involving our history, and culture is called for along with a half decent attempt at Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau.

And broadcast live at 5:59 before the news LOL

Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

I'd like to think that to play for Wales you should feel Welsh. As some, who have possibly not been brought up in Wales, have pointed out they can still feel quite a strong feeling of belonging or hiraeth even when spending most of their life elsewhere. What Welsh qualification should be avoiding are carpetbaggers who have little affection or knowledge of Cymru but see playing for Wales as a lucrative, short term career move.

Completely agree with this 2nd point - International rugby does have to be about more than money, there has to be some integrity to it. 

Obviously the “feeling” a certain nationality thing is hard to define, but lots of countries have citizenship tests and I can’t see why a national team couldnt invent their own. A few verses of Men of Harlech for the non-welsh speakers 😅
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Busy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 4:39pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

If you'd rather cheer on a Welsh team featuring 5/6/7 guys who spent their childhoods/teens/ early adult life living in New Zealand/SA/Aus, than a team of guys brought up locally who have links to their communities from birth, then your definition of a National team is very different to mine. 

I feel less and less of a connection and care for the Wales jersey the more I see us plucking absolutely anyone half decent, no matter where they come from. I struggle to see how my thoughts are in the minority. 


How many do you think there should be? 3? 1? none?

None obviously. 


Wow. Well I for one am glad rugby union is more inclusive that that.
I'd say obviously none at international level. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Busy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by Dai Guevara Dai Guevara wrote:

If a person, not brought up in Wales, aspires to represent this great nation, then a little interview or exam involving our history, and culture is called for along with a half decent attempt at Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau.
International rugby. I'd say none
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 4:10pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

If you'd rather cheer on a Welsh team featuring 5/6/7 guys who spent their childhoods/teens/ early adult life living in New Zealand/SA/Aus, than a team of guys brought up locally who have links to their communities from birth, then your definition of a National team is very different to mine. 

I feel less and less of a connection and care for the Wales jersey the more I see us plucking absolutely anyone half decent, no matter where they come from. I struggle to see how my thoughts are in the minority. 


How many do you think there should be? 3? 1? none?

None obviously. 


Wow. Well I for one am glad rugby union is more inclusive that that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

If you'd rather cheer on a Welsh team featuring 5/6/7 guys who spent their childhoods/teens/ early adult life living in New Zealand/SA/Aus, than a team of guys brought up locally who have links to their communities from birth, then your definition of a National team is very different to mine. 

I feel less and less of a connection and care for the Wales jersey the more I see us plucking absolutely anyone half decent, no matter where they come from. I struggle to see how my thoughts are in the minority. 


How many do you think there should be? 3? 1? none?
None obviously. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EJPT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by EJPT EJPT wrote:

I think its unavoidable in the professional game, Its why alot of Tongan’s / New zealanders and South Africans play for other countries. Huge talent pool and only so many high paying places. Plus convenience too. To earn £20,000 - £50,000 for an autumn series in one if the big rugby nations far outweighs the £500 per game the Tongan national team were reported to be earning.

Here's an idea. Why not every nation agree that a flat rate payment is made for International duty regardless of country financed through World Rugby who could levy all countries for contributions which would depend on ability to pay. 
Wow now thats way too sensible for world rugby. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 November 2021 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by Sosban89 Sosban89 wrote:

If you'd rather cheer on a Welsh team featuring 5/6/7 guys who spent their childhoods/teens/ early adult life living in New Zealand/SA/Aus, than a team of guys brought up locally who have links to their communities from birth, then your definition of a National team is very different to mine. 

I feel less and less of a connection and care for the Wales jersey the more I see us plucking absolutely anyone half decent, no matter where they come from. I struggle to see how my thoughts are in the minority. 


How many do you think there should be? 3? 1? none?
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