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Oracle View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 March 2023 at 3:05pm
Remember...our suffering fuels their Gravy Train 
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Points: 18339 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 March 2023 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Wow , the UK should be in Sweden as we have the biggest ever recorded case of Stockholm syndrome ever seen 


The Tory policy is perfectly simple - those wealthy types can do as much or as little work as they want, and quit when they like.

The rest - with any luck they'll die before they reach state pension age. Tough!
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Wow , the UK should be in Sweden as we have the biggest ever recorded case of Stockholm syndrome ever seen 
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Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

seems v draconian has it been passed?, people must be able to legally protest lthough i dont agree with people chucking paint over works of art not sure whar purpose that serves

Draconian is right - it was passed in the Commons towards the end of 2022, and has been in the Lords where a number of amendments were made. The latest info. I managed to dig up on the Internet is in this piece , but there are other sources out there as well:

[/QUOTE] tbh i have no issues with people striking or protesting.  I still think these activisits need to be told that their efforts are doing the square root of sod all globally though, maybe they shoulf try direct action against the real mass polluters of greenhouse gases but they seem reluctant to . As for strikers the withdrawal of labour is a fundemtal hunan right imo

Edited by RR1972 - 30 March 2023 at 6:29pm
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Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

This just published today.


Look forward to your précis, Rob.
Basically we're going all electric Steve. Heat pumps and electric heaters of all shapes and sizes. Sounds good in theory but lots of issues to be unpacked.  

On the subject of insulation - yes brilliant idea and very important to get the fabric of your house as energy efficient as possible.

There's an old Eskimo saying - 'if you want to keep your feet warm, wear a hat'.  So for starters, people need to turf out all their rubbish from the attic to enable insulation to be placed there - this is where most energy is lost. Then think carefully about wall insulation as this can go horribly wrong if it's not done properly. 

Another good tip -  reflective foil behind your radiator will prevent heat from seeping out through walls. I'm here all week. Smile
to quote an old coach of mine if your cold your not running enough! Don’t suppose that holds much sway with oaps in winter in fairness!
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Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

[/QUOT
seems v draconian has it been passed?, people must be able to legally protest lthough i dont agree with people chucking paint over works of art not sure whar purpose that serves [/QUOTE]

Draconian is right - it was passed in the Commons towards the end of 2022, and has been in the Lords where a number of amendments were made. The latest info. I managed to dig up on the Internet is in this piece , but there are other sources out there as well:
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

This just published today.


Look forward to your précis, Rob.
Basically we're going all electric Steve. Heat pumps and electric heaters of all shapes and sizes. Sounds good in theory but lots of issues to be unpacked.  

On the subject of insulation - yes brilliant idea and very important to get the fabric of your house as energy efficient as possible.

There's an old Eskimo saying - 'if you want to keep your feet warm, wear a hat'.  So for starters, people need to turf out all their rubbish from the attic to enable insulation to be placed there - this is where most energy is lost. Then think carefully about wall insulation as this can go horribly wrong if it's not done properly. 

Another good tip -  reflective foil behind your radiator will prevent heat from seeping out through walls. I'm here all week. Smile
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A further point re insulation came to mind when driving and listening to Jeremy Vine phone in on this very topic.

Worth some time catching up via BBC Sounds - it’s the first topic today.

Back to the thought that came to mind. An uninsulated house is like using a sieve for something you want to be watertight. It’s such a waste of time and money. Get the insulation maximised and there are grants still for this, I believe, although not sure to what extent. Any improvement is worthwhile.
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Originally posted by Rob o'r Bont Rob o'r Bont wrote:

This just published today.


Look forward to your précis, Rob.
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This just published today.
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Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

With solar , make sure that you have capacity for storage above 300% what the system generates...The reason for this is that the power companies payment for you to sell your excess generated power is around 3p per kw , whilst they charge you a lot lot more the other way round ....it's just not worth the sale , but it's financially better to just store it and use it for yourself

A good point. Recent unit costs are 30-34p so the costs of storage capacity become far more justifiable. Another restriction that we came up with living where we do is the capacity of our local system to take any excess power generated. Of course that becomes redundant if storage facility is high enough. 
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With solar , make sure that you have capacity for storage above 300% what the system generates...The reason for this is that the power companies payment for you to sell your excess generated power is around 3p per kw , whilst they charge you a lot lot more the other way round ....it's just not worth the sale , but it's financially better to just store it and use it for yourself
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Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Following on from Rob’s posts earlier, the best money you can spend is in insulation. Enough of that, eliminating any thermal bridges etc is money very well deployed. Then the heat you want stays in and needs less boosting.

Some builders have to use lots of sticky tape ahead of their air tests in order to pass the required standard. Then, the tape comes off and you’ve an altogether less pleasant result and what would be a fail.

Passivhaus from Germany originally is an excellent way to go for those starting off.

Re GPR’s best mate neighbour, was any thought given to domestic wind turbines? Not the most slightly of things, they can be excellent amongst the windy spots of high up in West Wales, or anywhere else for that matter. Also, was solar explored at all?

Excellent point regarding insulation. My best mate did not look into turbines as far as I am aware but he did look at solar extensively but proved quite costly bearing in mind a lack of incentives which, with 2035 emission targets, you would have expected. 
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Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

I’m not overly familiar with the bill so plesse feel to expand.  Anyhow I ll await further info on this new law

My pleasure: here is an extract from the report of a Parliamentary Committee:

New policing powers risk creating a hostile environment for peaceful protestors, the Joint Committee on Human Rights warns in a report published following legislative scrutiny of the Public Order Bill. Designed to combat disruptive protests, the draft legislation would instead have a ‘chilling effect’ on the right to peaceful protest, putting fundamental democratic rights at risk.

The Government has introduced the Bill to give the police in England and Wales greater powers to deal with protests that are peaceful but disruptive. It adds to changes made to the law on protest by the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act 2022, which the Committee previously criticised for threatening the right to protest. It includes new criminal offences for ‘locking-on’ or disrupting transport works and national infrastructure, greater powers for stop and search, and would create Serious Disruption Prevention Orders.

The report highlights that the right to freedom of expression and freedom of assembly are protected under Articles 10 and 11 of the European Convention on Human Rights, and urges the Government to revise the Bill to ensure that these rights are respected.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/93/human-rights-joint-committee/news/171503/government-creating-hostile-environment-for-peaceful-protest-report-finds/

Lest you think this is some sort of lefty cabal, may I also include a link to the membership? 12 members, including 5 Conservatives:

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/93/human-rights-joint-committee/membership/

seems v draconian has it been passed?, people must be able to legally protest lthough i dont agree with people chucking paint over works of art not sure whar purpose that serves

Edited by RR1972 - 29 March 2023 at 6:41pm
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Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Good post but unfortunately the government is full of ministers with financial incentive not to actually go green , one of the main reason why shell and others don't pay windfall tax , let alone corporation tax ...

Interestingly the politicians in the UK who talk the talk but definitely don't walk the walk , the ones who allow sewerage to be dumped into rivers and seas , will be looking to be lifted above the suffering that the rest of us have to deal with ...
What the frightening thing is that we only have one planet , there is no where else for us to go to ...we ruin this one and it's game over 

Good post - and quite right.

One point I don't recall being mentioned often enough is David Cameron's terrible decision on the environment, when he promised to "cut the green crap". Short-term thinking at its worst:

David Cameron’s promise in 2013 to “cut the green crap” will cost millions of households around £170 each when energy prices spike this spring, a new report has claimed.

Analysis from the Energy and Climate Intelligence Unit (ECIU) showed that households could have saved a combined £1.5 billion in the next financial year if insulation continued to be installed at the same rate as a decade ago.

In 2012, around 2.3 million homes added new insulation, but since 2013 this has collapsed to just around 230,000 homes, ECIU said.

Insulation

“The rate of insulating homes has crashed since 2012 through cut backs on helping households reduce energy waste,” said Darren Jones, a Labour MP who chairs the Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee.

“The true cost of this short-termist thinking is now coming home to roost for millions of families struggling to pay their bills.”

These homes installed either insulation and cavity or solid wall insulation, something which the group said was enough to slash gas usage by 20 percent. 

The UK has the worst insulated homes in Europe, according to a 2020 survey by thermostat maker Tado. If outside temperatures are at freezing, UK homes heated to 20 degrees will lose three degrees in five hours.

In Norway, homes just lose 0.9 degrees in the same time under the same conditions, and even in warmer countries the insulation is better.

https://theecologist.org/2022/jan/25/cameron-cut-green-crap-costs-ps15-billion

Cameron has a lot to answer for, IMO.

Brilliant stat on insulation, Aber.
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This is powerful stuff:


It's easy (and true) to blame the Conservatives but they themselves are a result of "the pollution paradox" in that they are influenced and even led by said rich, but polluting, industries. I would extend this paradox to say that the "nasty" politics of right-wing authoritarianism that is inherently for the benefit of a wealthy minority also generates a similar paradox: if it is to ever to get elected it must dominate PR, media, propaganda. In the majority, it then usually uses these to invoke emotion, nationalism, hate and fear combined with aspects of snobbery and that voters can become one of the rich minority (or aspire to do so). This is not helped by our FPTP system; the major competition essentially has to fight over the same swing voters to get elected. So they in turn will also be filtered for the above and no solutions will be put forward.

If only we could harness political bullpoo as a fuel: now that would be truly sustainable.


Edited by dr_martinov - 29 March 2023 at 6:23pm
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