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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 May 2023 at 11:19am
Is it just me or does anyone else find it strange that the EU have been slow to support Ukraine with arms. Britain with in excess of £7B to late February 2023 is some £3B ahead of Germany with Finland at £0.8B in 10th & France, Italy, Spain, Greece & Portugal nowhere. 

So much for EU solidarity when push comes to shove. Frighteningly reminiscent of the 1930's & 1940's Any comments Mr Lineker??????
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Oracle View Drop Down
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Actual stats by each country as financial , military and percentage of their GDP 
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Points: 17885 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2023 at 11:37am
My figures are purely military hardware. Financial support is ok but it ain't going to stop the Russians bombing innocent people. This war has to be won on the ground before the reparations can begin. There is no getting away from it the EU countries ( apart from Eastern Europe) have been pretty slow reacting. Am I surprised - not really history has shown us what to expect.
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Points: 3959 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2023 at 11:47am
Looking at the figures , let's hope trump doesn't get re elected , as his first intention is to pull out of NATO ....
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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Points: 17885 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2023 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Looking at the figures , let's hope trump doesn't get re elected , as his first intention is to pull out of NATO ....

You are correct. Its an abiding conundrum that in a country of 300m + that the two favourites are a lunatic, compulsive liar & another who is clearly suffering with early onset dementia. Without the USA and Britain NATO is a busted flush.

Time for Macron's EU army to show its worth - someone needs to tell him that despots like Putin don't get fearful when they are threatened with being bombarded with croissants and pain au chocalats. History teaches us valuable lessons but to learn you have to listen. 
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Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Looking at the figures , let's hope trump doesn't get re elected , as his first intention is to pull out of NATO ....
trump highlighted that many members of nato don’t put in their agreed share it’s supposed to be 2 per cent of gdp Germany france spain and italy all failed to do so anong other eu nations. You can like or lioathe trump but he was right to call out the shirkers on this
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Points: 3959 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2023 at 12:31pm
Interestingly Putin said he would destroy London but not Wales , Scotland or Ireland , now knowing this fact and that we play in red shirts , should keep us in good stead , when the time comes ..comerade
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Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Looking at the figures , let's hope trump doesn't get re elected , as his first intention is to pull out of NATO ....
trump highlighted that many members of nato don’t put in their agreed share it’s supposed to be 2 per cent of gdp Germany france spain and italy all failed to do so anong other eu nations. You can like or lioathe trump but he was right to call out the shirkers on this

You can't argue with Trump's logic on that one in any way. I am amazed that despite the lessons of history large rich members of the EU continue to treat their own security as someone else's issue. 
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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Points: 17885 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2023 at 12:42pm
Originally posted by Oracle Oracle wrote:

Interestingly Putin said he would destroy London but not Wales , Scotland or Ireland , now knowing this fact and that we play in red shirts , should keep us in good stead , when the time comes ..comerade

What this invasion of Ukraine has shown the World is that Putin & his armed forces are vastly over hyped. Russia is no longer a super power & in a conventional war they are there for the taking. For them to need to be propped up my those bastions of democracy and free speech - Iran & North Korea says it all. Putin's end will be swift and painful. For the sake of the Russian people lets hope its soon. 
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Oracle View Drop Down
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Points: 3959 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2023 at 1:43pm
I think most people are concerned about the Russian nuclear arsenal and whether Putin would press the button ...it's interesting that China are sitting quietly watching 
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Legendinmybathroom View Drop Down
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It now looks like Putins most effective military weapon (the vargna group) is turning around and turning on the Russian military in what can only be seen as an attempted coup.  This will seriously damage the Russians ability to withstand any pushback from the Ukrainian military.
This is not a very good look for Putin, it will be very interesting how he portraits this in the state run media.
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Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

It now looks like Putins most effective military weapon (the vargna group) is turning around and turning on the Russian military in what can only be seen as an attempted coup.  This will seriously damage the Russians ability to withstand any pushback from the Ukrainian military.
This is not a very good look for Putin, it will be very interesting how he portraits this in the state run media.

They(the mercenary militia) have now turned back,  According  to the news.
Whatever happens Legend is right, it reflects badly on Putin and the Russian  military. 
One for sure,  you cannot negotiate  with Putin, and West knows it.
The 'stop the war fraternity', with the very best intentions, need to listen to hundreds of women raped and tortured Russian soldiers, completely  out if control,with Putin happy to ignore such atrocities,  and mass murder, including  children.

Countries over dependent on Russian oil , like  Germany,  were naive.
A clean independent  green energy policy for forward looking countries, is the only way. 
US, is investing billions on this , while Rishi Sunak sits on his hands.
At least Labour has a good looking Green Energy plan.

We need to stangle Putin economically,  and confiscate valley the assets of the oligarch mates in the UK.
Problem is, they're all TORY DONORS,ConfusedConfusedConfusedConfused
I stood yer on tanner bank
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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Points: 17885 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2023 at 10:05am
Could this be a turning point in this conflict? The Wagner group were an important ally of Putin and now they have been disbanded. Will Ukraine have the hardware necessary to launch a telling counter offensive which will see the Russian troops certainly off guard and the Russian military leadership in some what disarray. 

One thing which is beyond any doubt is the mystique which surrounded Russia's military might lies in tatters and allies and enemies alike will be boosted by quite how shambolic their military have been. The West are playing a waiting game to see how the situation with Putin unfolds. If ever there was a case for NATO to get boots on the ground and support Ukraine in driving the Russians out of Ukraine including Crimea surely it is now. 
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scarletabroad View Drop Down
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Points: 4207 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletabroad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2023 at 10:57am
NATO will not set foot in Ukraine the risks are to great of a Putin tantrum and his need to save face with his nuclear threat even if it’s only small scale nukes it will ruin the wheat harvests for generations starving millions let alone the escalation threat. The Wargner situation will have stirred the Russian people and shattered the myths. The Donbas region is heavily fortified and Ukraine will need help clearing this with equipment. With internal strife Ukraine’s continued drive it may be the beginning of the end. Let’s hope for all concerned it is
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Rob o'r Bont View Drop Down
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Points: 14403 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rob o'r Bont Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 June 2023 at 11:00am
What a bizarre day yesterday was. I went bodyboarding with my boy in Caswell and having failed to get in the car park we went for an ice cream instead. By the time we go to Joes (other brands were available),  Wagner were 250km from Moscow, by the time we'd finished our ice cream they were 150km from Moscow and by the time we got home to the Bont it was all over. Confused

Unfortunately the war goes on but at least Prigozhin who seemed to be a bigger madman than Putin has gone. Prigozhin wanted to kill Ukranian's just as much as Putin, the difference being Prigozhin was advocating the use of tactical nukes - which would have triggered Article 5 and brought NATO into the conflict.  We may still end up there. 




Edited by Rob o'r Bont - 25 June 2023 at 12:01pm
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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Points: 17885 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 June 2023 at 7:09am
Originally posted by scarletabroad scarletabroad wrote:

NATO will not set foot in Ukraine the risks are to great of a Putin tantrum and his need to save face with his nuclear threat even if it’s only small scale nukes it will ruin the wheat harvests for generations starving millions let alone the escalation threat. The Wargner situation will have stirred the Russian people and shattered the myths. The Donbas region is heavily fortified and Ukraine will need help clearing this with equipment. With internal strife Ukraine’s continued drive it may be the beginning of the end. Let’s hope for all concerned it is

I agree with your comment about NATO involvement - officially of course. I don't think anyone really believes that NATO member forces aren't already operating within Ukraine unofficially of course. A few dozen fully trained F16 pilots and support crews could change the course of the war quite quickly. The time is now with Russia's military leadership at loggerheads & Putin exposed. 
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