Scarlet Fever Llanelli Rugby Sport Wales Tickets Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > RUGBY > ARE YOU BLIND REF.... OR ARE WE WRONG ???
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Use of the TMO
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login


Use of the TMO
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
John View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4650 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Use of the TMO
    Posted: 29 October 2016 at 10:56am
This query stems from a couple of incidents in last nights game- yupp we know them but I'll keep the questions general.

We know that the officials on the field can refer to the TMO at any point and quite often do for matters other than foul play or the award of a try (for instance how to restart the game) but:

1. If a player alleges there has been foul play against him to the referee, is the referee obliged to make the TMO review the incident?

2. For an incident not foul play, can a player ask for a TMO review of a passage of play, principally to reverse a wrong decision?  
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
ap sior View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 10655 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 11:28am
I'd add to that shouldn't the TMO intervene when there is an obvious mistake? Didn't see the game but it seems that the incident to YC A Shingler was a complete error/mistake.
Back to Top
Mogwen View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 07 April 2013
Location: Yma o Hyd
Status: Offline
Points: 4014 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 12:37pm
And the punch on elias from myhill!! He even told the ref "I've been punched" laughable decision making
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
Back to Top
ap sior View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 08 May 2005
Location: Wales
Status: Offline
Points: 10655 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

And the punch on elias from myhill!! He even told the ref "I've been punched" laughable decision making

I'm sure there'll be a citing for that.

However isn't the TMo supposed to draw the attention of the ref to instances of foul play ?
Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 27344 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 3:17pm
I don't think the referee is obliged to go to the TMO, but they can always ask the TMO just to check, whilst play is ongoing.

Nigel Owens ignoring Pascal Pape's accusation of a punch by Sean O'Brien is an example of when the referee should have gone to TMO as O'Brien was suspended for it. But I guess it encourages players to make more accusations.
Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 27344 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 3:19pm
Originally posted by ap sior ap sior wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

And the punch on elias from myhill!! He even told the ref "I've been punched" laughable decision making


I'm sure there'll be a citing for that.

However isn't the TMo supposed to draw the attention of the ref to instances of foul play ?


what minute in the match was this punch?
Back to Top
Mogwen View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 07 April 2013
Location: Yma o Hyd
Status: Offline
Points: 4014 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 3:34pm
At end of first half during scrumathon.
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 27344 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

At end of first half during scrumathon.


Can't see it anywhere on the footage
Back to Top
Mogwen View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 07 April 2013
Location: Yma o Hyd
Status: Offline
Points: 4014 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 4:41pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

Originally posted by Mogwen Mogwen wrote:

At end of first half during scrumathon.


Can't see it anywhere on the footage


Elias comes up from a scrum(don't know which one) , there a scuffle, his nose is bleeding and he tells the ref and shows the ref that he's been punched. Ref did nothing
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
Back to Top
ExileTom View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 30 July 2012
Location: Flintshire
Status: Offline
Points: 1195 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ExileTom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 October 2016 at 6:10pm
A good example of the TMO being used after an intervention would be the high tackle on Jonny Mcnicholl today. The touch judge suggested to the ref to go up to TMO and he rightly reversed the penalty and awarded a yellow card. I'd say we have a problem in the pro12 with how passive the touch judges are at times, rarely seeing them step in to advise the ref. Linton clearly needed help last night
Back to Top
scarletman View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar
Married with Kids - Close to Bankruptcy

Joined: 18 August 2004
Location: Heol-y-Cyw
Status: Offline
Points: 12299 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2016 at 9:10am
http://laws.worldrugby.org/downloads/TMO_Protocol_Aug_14_EN.pdf
Herman Tours ... Still the best way to travel !
Back to Top
Eastern outpost View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 13 March 2012
Location: South Suffolk
Status: Offline
Points: 18266 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2016 at 10:39am
Watching Brive v Clermont yesterday, The third Clermont try from Nakataci (spelling?) caused referral to the TMO. It was awarded when the TV couldn't show any separation of the hand from the ball, even though the ball bounced away with great height and distance.

A physics question, can you get downwards pressure on the ball when it's in contact with the ground and the ball still travel a long way after, other than by perfect timing? Andy Goode wasn't convinced it was a try and thought he'd lost control. However, due to lack of TV camera operator skill, the best angle showed nothing of the hand and ball, just the arm and body of the player.
In a world where you can be anything – Be Kind.
Back to Top
John View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran


Joined: 15 August 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 4650 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2016 at 12:35pm
Elias makes his allegation to the Referee at 35.15 on the game clock. Watch Parkes looking at the referee at the same time. If ever a player was assessing the referee for what he is, that was it. And that is why Parkes is a leader and should be our captain. You can't actually see any punch, just the reaction to it.

Scarletman's link is so full of legaleese as to be impenetrable but it seems to imply that the TMO cannot draw the ref's attention to foul play, just to a minor offence that might invalidate a try. And that surely is wrong (and being widely ignored but not on friday?)

But the fourth bullet point in the guiding principles would seem to be a complete shambles. At the very least, Poite and Linton need to have a discussion at length as to why they make so completely different uses of the TMO.  
Back to Top
haydn_davies View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar

Joined: 10 April 2009
Location: Llanelli
Status: Offline
Points: 17947 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2016 at 3:41pm
Key for me:-

Any of the match officials, including the TMO, may recommend a review by the TMO. The reviews will take place in accordance with TMO protocol in place at the time which will be available on worldrugby.org/laws
Think, think, think - it's a thinking man's game!! - The Great Carwyn James.
Just for our SA friends - Weste is die beste!
Back to Top
KID A View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Cardiff
Status: Offline
Points: 27344 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KID A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2016 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Key for me:-

Any of the match officials, including the TMO, may recommend a review by the TMO. The reviews will take place in accordance with TMO protocol in place at the time which will be available on worldrugby.org/laws


Surely one of the linesmen or the TMO saw the Shingler fiasco and had to step in.There are newspapers in Australia and New Zealand carrying the story and it makes the Pro12 look embarrassing.
Back to Top
scarletman View Drop Down
Veteran
Veteran
Avatar
Married with Kids - Close to Bankruptcy

Joined: 18 August 2004
Location: Heol-y-Cyw
Status: Offline
Points: 12299 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2016 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Watching Brive v Clermont yesterday, The third Clermont try from Nakataci (spelling?) caused referral to the TMO. It was awarded when the TV couldn't show any separation of the hand from the ball, even though the ball bounced away with great height and distance.

A physics question, can you get downwards pressure on the ball when it's in contact with the ground and the ball still travel a long way after, other than by perfect timing? Andy Goode wasn't convinced it was a try and thought he'd lost control. However, due to lack of TV camera operator skill, the best angle showed nothing of the hand and ball, just the arm and body of the player.

The Law in Rugby Union doesn't mention downward pressure. It only quotes "Grounding the Ball" !

It only has to touch the ground on or over the line whilst the attacking player is in contact with the ball !
Herman Tours ... Still the best way to travel !
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.04
Copyright ©2001-2021 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.