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Voter ID

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aber-fan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 12:52pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

For me personally I think it’s unnecessary. There was what, 6 cases of voter fraud in the last election?

Voting should be made as easy as possible, not adding extra hurdles unless there’s a genuine reason to. Didn’t Boris say he would eat an ID Card if one was forced on him? The estimated cost is an extra £20m per election (no source, seen on Twitter so I don’t know how accurate this is).

All for 6 cases?

Boris says a lot of things - most of which are lies.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

For me personally I think it’s unnecessary. There was what, 6 cases of voter fraud in the last election?

Voting should be made as easy as possible, not adding extra hurdles unless there’s a genuine reason to. Didn’t Boris say he would eat an ID Card if one was forced on him? The estimated cost is an extra £20m per election (no source, seen on Twitter so I don’t know how accurate this is).

All for 6 cases?

Boris says a lot of things - most of which are lies.
Yes politicians llie lol labour manifesto  will build an M4 relief road 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Guevara Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 1:28pm
You have only got to study the devious ways the United States officially gave the vote to black Americans but then used as many tricks as possible to stop them voting. This started with declaring that you would only be allowed to vote if your grandfather had the vote!! Then you had to be able to write, then be a house owner, pay poll-tax etc. All these restrictions only applied to blacks and although technically they had the vote in the 1890s it was the mid 1960s and the efforts of the likes of Martin Luther King before it became just as easy for blacks to vote as whites. Requiring an ID card is just another little obstacle added to the other steps needed to register.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 1:38pm
Why would requiring a photo id affect bame people in the uk more than white people though? Why are people on the left so conceened? Don’t they drive go on hols go to uni get buses or trains etc?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Why would requiring a photo id affect bame people in the uk more than white people though? Why are people on the left so conceened? Don’t they drive go on hols go to uni get buses or trains etc?
I think the worry is that the current most popular/trusted forms of photo ID are passports and Drivers Licenses. Both of these cost money, so in effect you’re asking people who don’t or can’t afford to drive or travel to pay for the right to vote.

If you’re going to issue free ID cards then fine - but that’s going to cost the Govt money, adds an extra hurdle to voting (which should be as easy as possible) and adds something else to remember/carry. For a grand total of 6 convicted cases of Voter Fraud in the last election.

BAME are less likely to have a drivers licence or passport. Also, check out this FT article http://www.ft.com/content/c2465b56-7485-48b2-bb70-c8c6b9491d44

Which suggests that higher levels of conservative voters have passports or drivers licences than Labour voters. So you’ve got a PM who is opposed to ID Cards, introducing a fix to a problem that is practically non-existent, that currently unfairly benefits supporters of his party.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 3:49pm
Its not unfair to ask for photo id to vote imo. I dont know anyone who doesn’t have at least one form of photo id. Frankly it’s a bit bizaarre if people don’t have one and i include bus passes gym passes etc in that But yes i agree give them out free if people haven’t got them

Edited by RR1972 - 15 May 2021 at 3:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Its not unfair to ask for photo id to vote imo. I dont know anyone who doesn’t have at least one form of photo id. Frankly it’s a bit bizaarre if people don’t have one. But yes i agree give them out free if people haven’t got them
It's easy to have I'd it's just the left worried about their voter fraud
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Its not unfair to ask for photo id to vote imo. I dont know anyone who doesn’t have at least one form of photo id. Frankly it’s a bit bizaarre if people don’t have one and i include bus passes gym passes etc in that But yes i agree give them out free if people haven’t got them
Yes you include bus passes gym passes etc but will the Govt? Surely they would be easy to fake compared to a Driving Licence or Passport? Can’t expect someone working in a voting office to know every gym in a 50 mile radius?

If you’re going to give them out free, how much is that going to cost the taxpayer to make, distribute, keep updated, replace etc? Is it really worth it for 6 confirmed cases of Voter Fraud in the last election?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 5:10pm
Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Its not unfair to ask for photo id to vote imo. I dont know anyone who doesn’t have at least one form of photo id. Frankly it’s a bit bizaarre if people don’t have one and i include bus passes gym passes etc in that But yes i agree give them out free if people haven’t got them
Yes you include bus passes gym passes etc but will the Govt? Surely they would be easy to fake compared to a Driving Licence or Passport? Can’t expect someone working in a voting office to know every gym in a 50 mile radius?

If you’re going to give them out free, how much is that going to cost the taxpayer to make, distribute, keep updated, replace etc? Is it really worth it for 6 confirmed cases of Voter Fraud in the last election?
Most people have a driving licence, passport , student cards etc stop coming up with excuses , it's only the left who don't like it , why is that ?


Edited by PenScarlet44 - 15 May 2021 at 5:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 5:27pm
So why do we need them at all?
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 6:09pm
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

So why do we need them at all?
To stop voter fraud ? Why is it so difficult when the majority have a form of I'd , it's not difficult
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PenScarlet44 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 6:13pm
Originally posted by Jones2004 Jones2004 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

[QUOTE=Jones2004]The chance of someone committing voter fraud is about the same as the chance of them being hit by lightning - i.e. absolutely tiny. We do have problems with election integrity in this country but they are things like Russian interference and the breaking of electoral law by campaign groups (e.g. Vote Leave), not this red herring. Boris won’t do anything about those two examples as they tend to help the conservatives while the requiring of photo ID will hugely disadvantage progressive voters. 
Lastly in terms of the cost of this, if the government/ councils have to pick up the cost of providing over 3m free photo ID it will be a monumental waste of money, but the alternative is even worse. The alternative is that people have to buy their own photo ID which would mean that you’d have to pay to vote, meaning only those with enough money would be able to vote. That would set us back a century, end free and universal suffrage, and I would argue make us no longer a true democracy. I really don’t believe that is an exaggeration. I truly do hope that won’t happen and that this idiotic idea is all binned as soon as possible.
why dont progressive voters have passports bus passes driving licences or student union cards etc?
The government’s own analysis shows that around 2 million people don’t have recognisable photo ID (I’d heard the 3 million somewhere else but realised the error double checking now). Wealthier people who live in rural areas are more likely to have either a driving licence or passport and vote Tory (I don’t know how secure other forms of photo ID are). And lastly the main reason I say it would disadvantage progressive voters is do you really believe the government would go ahead with this plan if it disadvantaged it’s own voters?

The two million figure came from here: 
So how do these people claim any benefits? Have a bank account ? Have a home ? Majority of places, works etc require IID?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 8:26pm
so voter fraud is what exactly? Would it for example target people who are technically illegal immigrants?
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2021 at 9:09pm
It’s no big deal for me either way tbh. I don’t think voter fraud is a big concern but i don’t think needing photo id is a big concern for most people either tbh. No way there 2/3 million people who vote regularly and who don’t have a photo id. I think both camps are over exagerting tbh
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2021 at 12:33am
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by SospanMawr SospanMawr wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Its not unfair to ask for photo id to vote imo. I dont know anyone who doesn’t have at least one form of photo id. Frankly it’s a bit bizaarre if people don’t have one and i include bus passes gym passes etc in that But yes i agree give them out free if people haven’t got them
Yes you include bus passes gym passes etc but will the Govt? Surely they would be easy to fake compared to a Driving Licence or Passport? Can’t expect someone working in a voting office to know every gym in a 50 mile radius?

If you’re going to give them out free, how much is that going to cost the taxpayer to make, distribute, keep updated, replace etc? Is it really worth it for 6 confirmed cases of Voter Fraud in the last election?
Most people have a driving licence, passport , student cards etc stop coming up with excuses , it's only the left who don't like it , why is that ?
They’re not excuses, they’re reasons. Student cards are only free up until 18. After that you only have student cards if you pay for your education. So again you’re asking people to pay for the right to vote.
That’s not right. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SospanMawr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2021 at 12:36am
Originally posted by PenScarlet44 PenScarlet44 wrote:

Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

So why do we need them at all?
To stop voter fraud ? Why is it so difficult when the majority have a form of I'd , it's not difficult
To stop 6 confirmed/prosecuted cases of voter fraud in the last election?

Voting is a right for everyone, not just the majority. The majority of people can walk, doesn’t mean we should get rid of wheelchair ramps. The majority of people can see, doesn’t mean we should get rid of a Braille.

Just by saying “it’s okay to make it more difficult for people to vote because the majority won’t have any issues with it” is wrong.
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