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Wales team against France

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greypower1 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote greypower1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 12:53pm
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

The more I think about it the more I think Gate 12 was right about Pivac already having his match day squad for the RWC in place.

The only slots open for consideration are probably 2nd choice tight head and 2nd choice outside half.

He’s got Ken, North, AWJ and Tips shirts filled with placeholders right now.

You can see this from how quickly Basham, Jenkins, Ratti and Morgan have been pushed back once Navidi ( who’d be the 6 in the RWC I think)and Taulupe were available, the needless inclusion of AWJ for the Italy match instead of bringing someone like a Ben Carter through.
Halaholo would only get a game if there were 2 centres injured, maybe even 3, likewise Carre, Dillon Lewis, Sheedy for their positions.

The danger of course is that form players get overlooked,and, if young, become a little disillusioned…and players picked perpetually are selected without necessarily being fully fit or in form.

Pivac also shares far too much of the reasoning for dropping/picking/not picking players with the media too, which doesn’t help.

The other think that concerns me a bit is we are 1/4 and lying 5th in the 6N, but that seems to be broadly ok, and the inevitable win v Italy will mean we will tick off the campaign as ‘reasonable’.

Do you believe the win against Italy is inevitable?  They gave Scotland a good examination and were only undone by some brilliant Scottish attacking.  Not sure we've  got that attacking brilliance  in our locker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

[QUOTE=Wil Chips]The more I think about it the more I think Gate 12 was right about Pivac already having his match day squad for the RWC in place.

The only slots open for consideration are probably 2nd choice tight head and 2nd choice outside half.

He’s got Ken, North, AWJ and Tips shirts filled with placeholders right now.

You can see this from how quickly Basham, Jenkins, Ratti and Morgan have been pushed back once Navidi ( who’d be the 6 in the RWC I think)and Taulupe were available, the needless inclusion of AWJ for the Italy match instead of bringing someone like a Ben Carter through.
Halaholo would only get a game if there were 2 centres injured, maybe even 3, likewise Carre, Dillon Lewis, Sheedy for their positions.

The danger of course is that form players get overlooked,and, if young, become a little disillusioned…and players picked perpetually are selected without necessarily being fully fit or in form.

Pivac also shares far too much of the reasoning for dropping/picking/not picking players with the media too, which doesn’t help.

The other think that concerns me a bit is we are 1/4 and lying 5th in the 6N, but that seems to be broadly ok, and the inevitable win v Italy will mean we will tick off the campaign as ‘reasonable’.

Do you believe the win against Italy is inevitable?  They gave Scotland a good examination and were only undone by some brilliant Scottish attacking.  Not sure we've  got that attacking brilliance  in our locker.
[/QUOTe

It would be a shock but I would not be surprised if it was a close game & not a winning margin of 25-35 points. I remain convinced that a loss at home against Italy would, in the long term, be the best things that could happen for the future of professional rugby in Wales. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 2:55pm
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

[QUOTE=Wil Chips]The more I think about it the more I think Gate 12 was right about Pivac already having his match day squad for the RWC in place.

The only slots open for consideration are probably 2nd choice tight head and 2nd choice outside half.

He’s got Ken, North, AWJ and Tips shirts filled with placeholders right now.

You can see this from how quickly Basham, Jenkins, Ratti and Morgan have been pushed back once Navidi ( who’d be the 6 in the RWC I think)and Taulupe were available, the needless inclusion of AWJ for the Italy match instead of bringing someone like a Ben Carter through.
Halaholo would only get a game if there were 2 centres injured, maybe even 3, likewise Carre, Dillon Lewis, Sheedy for their positions.

The danger of course is that form players get overlooked,and, if young, become a little disillusioned…and players picked perpetually are selected without necessarily being fully fit or in form.

Pivac also shares far too much of the reasoning for dropping/picking/not picking players with the media too, which doesn’t help.

The other think that concerns me a bit is we are 1/4 and lying 5th in the 6N, but that seems to be broadly ok, and the inevitable win v Italy will mean we will tick off the campaign as ‘reasonable’.

Do you believe the win against Italy is inevitable?  They gave Scotland a good examination and were only undone by some brilliant Scottish attacking.  Not sure we've  got that attacking brilliance  in our locker.
[/QUOTe

It would be a shock but I would not be surprised if it was a close game & not a winning margin of 25-35 points. I remain convinced that a loss at home against Italy would, in the long term, be the best things that could happen for the future of professional rugby in Wales. 


The fact is that anybody picking the national side at the moment would not have a free rein.The defined group of elite players and the 80/20 funding model means that the national coach's hands are tied.There must be massive financial pressure to pick a player like Foxy-nothing else can explain his selection.Pivac couldn't exactly blank all those boys on the big money WRU contracts-if he did,he'd soon have a committee man or twelve whispering "financial ruin"in his ear.The state on the Welsh game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 3:42pm
Pivac picks the 38 players to be on the 80/20 contracts, he also had carte blanche to pick his own coaching team, given the lack of rugby knowledge in the senior roles at the wru he has got more power than pretty much any welsh coach ever

Edited by RR1972 - 13 March 2022 at 3:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 3:56pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Pivac picks the 38 players to be on the 80/20 contracts, he also had carte blanche to pick his own coaching team, given the lack of rugby knowledge in the senior roles at the wru he has got more power than pretty much any welsh coach ever

There are players whose contracts pre-date Pivac's appointment as national coach-Ken and Foxy are two.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 3:58pm
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Pivac picks the 38 players to be on the 80/20 contracts, he also had carte blanche to pick his own coaching team, given the lack of rugby knowledge in the senior roles at the wru he has got more power than pretty much any welsh coach ever

There are players whose contracts pre-date Pivac's appointment as national coach-Ken and Foxy are two.
when did they cone in this is his 3rd year now
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mogwen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 4:11pm
Surely it must be an annual review by the wru. You cant guarantee any player being in the 38 every year. What hapoens if the player is removed from the 38? Does his club have to foot his entire wage?
The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

When we won the League,Pivac and Jones opted to go with Mcnicholl at 15,putting Liam Williams on the wingIt sparked some debate,but the logic was plain to see-they opted for the faster player at full-back.It made sense and they were vindicated by winning the League.The next season Halfpenny was signed-definitely not the sort of player you'd think Pivac and Jones would have favoured at 15-because he's not fast.Obviously Halfpenny's arrival wasn't down to them,and it could be argued,the signing made commercial sense at the time.What failed to make any sense was the fact that Pivac and Jones kept picking him ahead of faster options,given their previous preference for a speedster at 15.In the European semi final in Dublin,Halfpenny was targeted by Sexton-expertly and to great effect.It could be argued that this was the biggest factor in our defeat that day.After the game Pivac spoke of Steff Evans being targeted as a factor in the loss-no mention of Halfpenny.It was then that I lost a lot of respect for Pivac(and Jones)Both abandoned a principled position that season-probably because they were chasing the Welsh job at that point and didn't want to challenge some vested interests.
Halfpenny was picked for his goal kicking.

That just proves my point.
The point being what?would any coach have dropped neil jenkins during his career with wales?did mcgheecan drop him for the lions in 97 when there were faster more skillful players available to him,every team needs a reliable kicker.

Patchell wasn't reliable?
Not in my wildest gambling dreams would i class patch as a reliable kicker.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Pivac picks the 38 players to be on the 80/20 contracts, he also had carte blanche to pick his own coaching team, given the lack of rugby knowledge in the senior roles at the wru he has got more power than pretty much any welsh coach ever

There are players whose contracts pre-date Pivac's appointment as national coach-Ken and Foxy are two.
when did they cone in this is his 3rd year now

Yes but don't forget the 80/20 just replaced the "dual contract"(stand corrected but they were 60/40,I think)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 4:33pm
Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by ladram ladram wrote:

Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

When we won the League,Pivac and Jones opted to go with Mcnicholl at 15,putting Liam Williams on the wingIt sparked some debate,but the logic was plain to see-they opted for the faster player at full-back.It made sense and they were vindicated by winning the League.The next season Halfpenny was signed-definitely not the sort of player you'd think Pivac and Jones would have favoured at 15-because he's not fast.Obviously Halfpenny's arrival wasn't down to them,and it could be argued,the signing made commercial sense at the time.What failed to make any sense was the fact that Pivac and Jones kept picking him ahead of faster options,given their previous preference for a speedster at 15.In the European semi final in Dublin,Halfpenny was targeted by Sexton-expertly and to great effect.It could be argued that this was the biggest factor in our defeat that day.After the game Pivac spoke of Steff Evans being targeted as a factor in the loss-no mention of Halfpenny.It was then that I lost a lot of respect for Pivac(and Jones)Both abandoned a principled position that season-probably because they were chasing the Welsh job at that point and didn't want to challenge some vested interests.
Halfpenny was picked for his goal kicking.

That just proves my point.
The point being what?would any coach have dropped neil jenkins during his career with wales?did mcgheecan drop him for the lions in 97 when there were faster more skillful players available to him,every team needs a reliable kicker.

Patchell wasn't reliable?
Not in my wildest gambling dreams would i class patch as a reliable kicker.
Reliable enough to win the League.Point I'm trying to make is that Pivac abd Jones' whole philosophy revolved around speed and space-a fast attacking fullback was integral to that way of playing the game,which is why they picked Mcnicholl over Liam.In that context,Halfpenny was a contradiction.I had a big bet on the 2017 final,btw
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 4:38pm
What about adams as a 15? He played age group there
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 4:43pm
I thought they picked McNicholl at 15 because he is the better playmaker?

In the event the field is split, they wanted McNicholl to be the 2nd playmaker on one side of the ruck and the 10 on the right.

Sanjay can throw a decent pass at times but he’s much better running onto the ball?

I think this is where Patchell may still have a chance getting to RWC2023 because he can play the 1st and 2nd playmaker role in any attack and works as bench option to cover 10& 15. Just needs to find some form with us in next 6 months 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dyniol53 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

What about adams as a 15? He played age group there

He is such a good winger it’s dumb to put him anywhere else imo.

I understood trying him at centre vs Fiji in autumn because he might need to fill in at 13 for a game in RWC if there’s an injury, a bit like how he moves to 13 when LRZ came on vs France. So maybe there’s an idea to give him game time at 15 next week vs Italy for the same reason. But I don’t think they should be moulding Josh Adams to be anything other than a winger 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dic Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

I thought they picked McNicholl at 15 because he is the better playmaker?

In the event the field is split, they wanted McNicholl to be the 2nd playmaker on one side of the ruck and the 10 on the right.

Sanjay can throw a decent pass at times but he’s much better running onto the ball?

I think this is where Patchell may still have a chance getting to RWC2023 because he can play the 1st and 2nd playmaker role in any attack and works as bench option to cover 10& 15. Just needs to find some form with us in next 6 months 

Doesn't alter the fact that Halfpenny represented a contradiction. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by dyniol53 dyniol53 wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

What about adams as a 15? He played age group there

He is such a good winger it’s dumb to put him anywhere else imo.

I understood trying him at centre vs Fiji in autumn because he might need to fill in at 13 for a game in RWC if there’s an injury, a bit like how he moves to 13 when LRZ came on vs France. So maybe there’s an idea to give him game time at 15 next week vs Italy for the same reason. But I don’t think they should be moulding Josh Adams to be anything other than a winger 
fair, id drop cuthbert tbh he has played well in fairness i just prefer adams and lrz. Id try lloyd at 12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 March 2022 at 6:57pm
Originally posted by Dic Penderyn Dic Penderyn wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Pivac picks the 38 players to be on the 80/20 contracts, he also had carte blanche to pick his own coaching team, given the lack of rugby knowledge in the senior roles at the wru he has got more power than pretty much any welsh coach ever


There are players whose contracts pre-date Pivac's appointment as national coach-Ken and Foxy are two.


Maybe, but it’s 100% Pivac’s call ( each year) who makes the ‘38’.
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