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Wales team to face England at Twickers

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aber-fan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The worst lineout display I've ever seen from a pro rugby team. But they are very fit and very indisciplined.

I dont think Wales can claim to be fit after fading as badly as they did in the last 20 mins against an English team with was down to 12 for parts but still looked fitter and more dynamic than Wales.
It makes you wonder what the coaches have been doing with the players for the past months, because the fitness is not great and the  lineout organisation shambolic.

It really wasn't a fitness issue. Wales made mistake after mistake, messing up lineouts and giving away needless penalties. In the scrums, Lewis has always been a liability. So, in the last 15 minutes or so, Wales had: no scrum; no lineout; and no cool heads to ensure we didn't give away daft penalties. I think the defensive effort in the first half - and in general throughout - they never looked like rolling over us - proves the fitness of the group.
“You cannot reason a man out of what he never reasoned himself into.” (Jonathan Swift)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 1:57pm
Great to see Aber back and contributing after his traditional inter-season break.

Laser accuracy as ever.Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bydder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 2:42pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by bydder bydder wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

With respect to Farrell, he went in shoulder first to the head (of Basham, I think)... it was so obviously a red, but the ref was so weak and influenced by the crowd that he initially only gave a yellow plys putting Farrell 'on report'. It was upgraded to red by the TMO foul play official. Must have taken all of 5 seconds to make the decision. 

I didn't say anything about the ref before, as we should have won that game regardless and have only ourselves to blame - but he did favour England with a number of iffy decisions. On one occasion, he said that Wales had a pen advantage but almost immediately blew up for a Wales infringement and gave a penalty - to England! The S4C commentators were understandably bemused. But we should have won comfortably anyway.
I didn't watch it but you do know that they're trailing  the "bunker" system?
  

Yse, i did know that. Perhaps you don't understand how it is supposed to work? Let me explain:

the first stage is as follows:

  • Clear and obvious red cards for foul play will receive a red card resulting in the player being permanently being removed from the game and unable to be replaced
IMHO, only a blind bat could possibly have thought that what Farrel did was not 'clear foul play'. Only if that first consideration does not apply do we move on to the second and third stages as follows:

  • For any incident where a red card is not initially clear and obvious, a yellow card will be issued and dedicated foul play reviewers in a central bunker will review the incident using all available technology and footage
  • Once 10 minutes has elapsed, the yellow card is either upheld and the player returns to the action or it is upgraded and the player permanently leaves the field, unable to be replaced
Let me use football parlance here, for once: "The ref bottled it!"
I don't it need explaining thanks. Just making sure you know of it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bydder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Originally posted by bydder bydder wrote:

Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

With respect to Farrell, he went in shoulder first to the head (of Basham, I think)... it was so obviously a red, but the ref was so weak and influenced by the crowd that he initially only gave a yellow plys putting Farrell 'on report'. It was upgraded to red by the TMO foul play official. Must have taken all of 5 seconds to make the decision. 

I didn't say anything about the ref before, as we should have won that game regardless and have only ourselves to blame - but he did favour England with a number of iffy decisions. On one occasion, he said that Wales had a pen advantage but almost immediately blew up for a Wales infringement and gave a penalty - to England! The S4C commentators were understandably bemused. But we should have won comfortably anyway.
I didn't watch it but you do know that they're trailing  the "bunker" system?
Still, when push comes to shove, you need a referee (and other officials) who are courageous and accurate under-pressure. A shoulder to the head with no mitigation equals a red card. Send that signal. 

Be that objective, correct, official rather than one that is always one-down in their punishments of serious stuff and you’ll do well.
Like I said I didn't watch the game only the clip of the tackle. Did the ref make a quick decision on the yellow card? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seagultaf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by aber-fan aber-fan wrote:

Originally posted by Seagultaf Seagultaf wrote:

Originally posted by greypower1 greypower1 wrote:

The worst lineout display I've ever seen from a pro rugby team. But they are very fit and very indisciplined.

I dont think Wales can claim to be fit after fading as badly as they did in the last 20 mins against an English team with was down to 12 for parts but still looked fitter and more dynamic than Wales.
It makes you wonder what the coaches have been doing with the players for the past months, because the fitness is not great and the  lineout organisation shambolic.

It really wasn't a fitness issue. Wales made mistake after mistake, messing up lineouts and giving away needless penalties. In the scrums, Lewis has always been a liability. So, in the last 15 minutes or so, Wales had: no scrum; no lineout; and no cool heads to ensure we didn't give away daft penalties. I think the defensive effort in the first half - and in general throughout - they never looked like rolling over us - proves the fitness of the group.

In the last 20 mins Wales were losing the collisions, falling off tackles, getting turned over and generally getting pushed around by an England team who were at times down to 12 men. The measure of fitness is not how well players perform at the start if the game, its stamina and how strong they are at the end of the game. And for me, the English players looked far stronger at the end of the game than the Welsh did.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoppy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 3:47pm
Does Warren Garland play his strongest team v South Africa or does he give fringe players one last chance to make  an impression and book their places on the plane to France 

What are people's thoughts 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 4:11pm
This is a poorly coached team on the rare occasion we had quality ball from the lineout the ball came back to 9 and in 1 pass later there were 3 guys within a yard of each other running into English midfield that performance was total pants






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ndavies198 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by hoppy hoppy wrote:

Does Warren Garland play his strongest team v South Africa or does he give fringe players one last chance to make  an impression and book their places on the plane to France 

What are people's thoughts 

I’d like to see Johnny Williams and Joe Roberts start together.

If we could have Gareth Davies, Costellow, George North, Johnny Williams, Joe Roberts, LRZ, Williams as our staring backs at the World Cup I think we’d see amuch better display of skills.

Someone is going to need to be tested at Lock to partner Rowlands while Daf Jenkins is injured - it can’t be Adam Beard so hopefully Teddy Williams or Ben Carter will stand out. Hoping Daf Jenkins is able to make it to the World Cup so we can see Jenkins and Rowlands at lock, with Jac Morgan, Aaron Wainwright, and Faletau in the back row. 

What our best front row is though I have no idea and hopefully that gets resolved during the SA game. Perhaps seeing Kemsley, Dee, Henry start could work, with Domachowski and Assiratti on the bench - replacement hooker would have to be Sam Parry I assume if Elias and Lake are still injured. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 7:44pm
South Africa will come fully loaded and off the Rugby Championship, so Wales must reciprocate.

Injuries will dictate to a point. . As far as I can see there’s a question mark over a few…Lake looked like an MCL issue, Plumtree looked like a fracture of sorts, Faletau and Anscombe are already out. Daf Jenkins and Elias didn’t look great coming off last week. Jonny W needs to play to prove he’s worthy of a slot in the final 33…but with a hamstring it’s a risk.

Owens and Macleod are already sidelined.

It’s not a good equation.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 8:52pm
We had the front 6 of the Osprey pack in on Saturday the lineouts should have been meat and drink.
Francis and Beard are finished, in Beards case he has never started, and no matter how good Lake is in the loose he is a liability in his throwing in so cannot start for Wales let alone Captain the side. 
 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 August 2023 at 11:36pm
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

We had the front 6 of the Osprey pack in on Saturday the lineouts should have been meat and drink.
Francis and Beard are finished, in Beards case he has never started, and no matter how good Lake is in the loose he is a liability in his throwing in so cannot start for Wales let alone Captain the side. 
 

If Adam Beard ever reads this forum( which I doubt), but if he does, I fear for your safety WHY LOL

Seriously , though, you are correct, Beard and Francis are very limited players, even though Francis scrummaging remains reasonable.
Lake's throwing in is worse then Ryan Elias's ever was, and Parry was no better.
Its incredible how professional players can perform such an essential task so poorly.
Its not just the throwing , the whole line out is a "co ordination thing", with jumpers, lifters , and the thrower being on the same page . Communication, timing etc, all have to be spot on.
None of those things were happening at Twickers apparently, but in Cardiff, we did much better.
It won't get easier against Boks, so we need some improvements and  consistency 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2023 at 5:55am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

We had the front 6 of the Osprey pack in on Saturday the lineouts should have been meat and drink.
Francis and Beard are finished, in Beards case he has never started, and no matter how good Lake is in the loose he is a liability in his throwing in so cannot start for Wales let alone Captain the side. 
 

If Adam Beard ever reads this forum( which I doubt), but if he does, I fear for your safety WHY LOL

Seriously , though, you are correct, Beard and Francis are very limited players, even though Francis scrummaging remains reasonable.
Lake's throwing in is worse then Ryan Elias's ever was, and Parry was no better.
Its incredible how professional players can perform such an essential task so poorly.
Its not just the throwing , the whole line out is a "co ordination thing", with jumpers, lifters , and the thrower being on the same page . Communication, timing etc, all have to be spot on.
None of those things were happening at Twickers apparently, but in Cardiff, we did much better.
It won't get easier against Boks, so we need some improvements and  consistency 
I quite confident I could easily evade Beard seen milk turn quicker. There is no excuse for such a poor lineout the players who were the integral part of the process train or play together everyday. 
The simple fact that Beard has experience and he is big will be enough for him to go to WC and the shortage of hookers means the same for Parry and Lake. 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2023 at 7:29am
Its now or never for JBR - as Wil says its a risk with a dodgy hamstring but Gatland is already it seems intent on taking four players who are currently not fit to play - Faletau, Anscombe, Daf & Ryan - two of which will not have featured in a warm up game. I doubt there is any room for more. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2023 at 8:14am
Costelow is very much in contention… he’s skipped above Owen Williams and Anscombe for sure. Don’t think Owen put his name forward last weekend.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ap sior Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2023 at 9:11am
Originally posted by Wil Chips Wil Chips wrote:

Costelow is very much in contention… he’s skipped above Owen Williams and Anscombe for sure. Don’t think Owen put his name forward last weekend.


I'd very much hope so Wil. 

I'd start with Costelow, and end with Biggar. Costelow doesn't appear to be able to put kicks over from outside the opposition 10 metre line, Jenks needs to work on that with him. In the cardiff match, Sam did put in some longer touch finders.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 August 2023 at 11:49am
I agree, I think Costelow is very likely to make the final squad. Not sure Plumtree proved himself worthy of inclusion, regardless of the injury. I think he'll make a very good regional player for us though, and is young enough to still make his mark at the international stage in the future. Halfpenny could be touch and go - I think he did enough last weekend to warrant a place in the squad, but will there be room for him? Hooker and second row are the obvious worrying points. Beard shouldn't be selected but probably will be.
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