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Wales team to face Georgia

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roy munster View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 6:23am
Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

I have watched some awful Wales performances in my time, but this MUST take the biscuitConfused !

In fairness, as quite a few on the forum have said full credit to Georgia, they played well, but are a limited side, who Wales should normally (in the past) beat, 9 times out of 10.

Problem with that statement "normally", may not now come in to play...and WHY, absolute lack of depth to what we have available, particularly in the front five.

To beat Georgia, we needed to get over the gain line, and move the ball quickly, varying the point of attack. It didn't happen. Lack of ball carriers, quite evident
After two quick scores in the first half, we had Georgia on the ropes, but didn't take advantage.
They were committing offences regularly, but not once did I see Tipuric in the ref's ear.
He may have been a great player, but as a captain, has to be assertive, to ensure officials are aware that offences are mounting. Not a great choice by Pivac, but again, he has limited options.
Second half Georgians, a better side

I watched a very spirited, but flawed performance by Australia against Ireland earlier. Unlucky, to at least not get a draw.
There is very little likelihood of Wales beating them, and therefore, we would end an abysmal autumn series, and poor 2022.

I always try to be positive and have been supportive of Pivac in the past. His record though, is shockingly poor, and getting worse.
Started well, when we won 6 nations, but there were a few more options regarding players available then. We beat aussies last autumn and SA this summer, but these performances are sporadic.
He has had to experiment, due to lack of quality &numbers, but some of the decisions have been bizarre.
We desperately need ball carriers, but big guys like Rhys Carre , who despite my reservations about his scrummaging has played better this year. Moriarty is another glaring omission.

Tactically Wales seem bereft of leadership, on and off the field, with little cohesion and creativity.
There appears no clear vision of how we want to play the game, and if there is a plan, the players themselves seen inept with regard to their skills set to put any plan into practise. The game is littered with unforced errors.
Now normally, we see an improvement, as the 6 nations or Autumn series continues, as the players have had longer together. NOT THIS Time, and maybe the loss to Italy was another indication.

It's clear to me Pivac's position, whatever the result against Australia is untenable, and Stephen Jones must also shoulder the blame for the turgid and unimaginative attack, which looks for contact, not space 
It's a gamble to change a coaching team, with the world cup a year away, but we can do no worse!
There is also the financial aspect of compensation with regard to contracts (etc), to be considered, but as someone on the forum has already mentioned, if things don't change, we could lose out financially to a bigger tune in the long run.

Finally, changing the coaches, is only a short-term fix.
The bigger problem is changing the culture, structure and organisation of rugby in Wales 
HAS TO BE SERIOUS CHANGES going forward.
There has been a steady decline over the last decade, papered over by the way Gatland and his coaching team got the best out of the players, again and again.
Now he has gone, the cracks are exposed.
The regions cannot carry on failing in the way they are, and they are not supported adequately, by the top tiers of the community game or premiership.
The WRU has proved time and again, it cannot be trusted.
How can we plan for next season, when budgets, are still not yet agreed upon?
What business can possibly operate like that?

The way the union have approached the women's game, prove it can be done.
Root and branch changes need to be made and a firm commitment to build from a solid base, with strong investment to grow the game, from a young age, right through
Only then, we will have better chance of success on the international stage, on a regular basis.
This is the only way we will survive!




Good point about moriarty, an abrasive specimen who at least attempts to cross the gain line
ROYMOND MUNTER MBE (FOR SERVICES TO THE COMBOVER)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote N14 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 7:47am
Originally posted by roy munster roy munster wrote:

Originally posted by scarletpimp scarletpimp wrote:

I have watched some awful Wales performances in my time, but this MUST take the biscuitConfused !

In fairness, as quite a few on the forum have said full credit to Georgia, they played well, but are a limited side, who Wales should normally (in the past) beat, 9 times out of 10.

Problem with that statement "normally", may not now come in to play...and WHY, absolute lack of depth to what we have available, particularly in the front five.

To beat Georgia, we needed to get over the gain line, and move the ball quickly, varying the point of attack. It didn't happen. Lack of ball carriers, quite evident
After two quick scores in the first half, we had Georgia on the ropes, but didn't take advantage.
They were committing offences regularly, but not once did I see Tipuric in the ref's ear.
He may have been a great player, but as a captain, has to be assertive, to ensure officials are aware that offences are mounting. Not a great choice by Pivac, but again, he has limited options.
Second half Georgians, a better side

I watched a very spirited, but flawed performance by Australia against Ireland earlier. Unlucky, to at least not get a draw.
There is very little likelihood of Wales beating them, and therefore, we would end an abysmal autumn series, and poor 2022.

I always try to be positive and have been supportive of Pivac in the past. His record though, is shockingly poor, and getting worse.
Started well, when we won 6 nations, but there were a few more options regarding players available then. We beat aussies last autumn and SA this summer, but these performances are sporadic.
He has had to experiment, due to lack of quality &numbers, but some of the decisions have been bizarre.
We desperately need ball carriers, but big guys like Rhys Carre , who despite my reservations about his scrummaging has played better this year. Moriarty is another glaring omission.

Tactically Wales seem bereft of leadership, on and off the field, with little cohesion and creativity.
There appears no clear vision of how we want to play the game, and if there is a plan, the players themselves seen inept with regard to their skills set to put any plan into practise. The game is littered with unforced errors.
Now normally, we see an improvement, as the 6 nations or Autumn series continues, as the players have had longer together. NOT THIS Time, and maybe the loss to Italy was another indication.

It's clear to me Pivac's position, whatever the result against Australia is untenable, and Stephen Jones must also shoulder the blame for the turgid and unimaginative attack, which looks for contact, not space 
It's a gamble to change a coaching team, with the world cup a year away, but we can do no worse!
There is also the financial aspect of compensation with regard to contracts (etc), to be considered, but as someone on the forum has already mentioned, if things don't change, we could lose out financially to a bigger tune in the long run.

Finally, changing the coaches, is only a short-term fix.
The bigger problem is changing the culture, structure and organisation of rugby in Wales 
HAS TO BE SERIOUS CHANGES going forward.
There has been a steady decline over the last decade, papered over by the way Gatland and his coaching team got the best out of the players, again and again.
Now he has gone, the cracks are exposed.
The regions cannot carry on failing in the way they are, and they are not supported adequately, by the top tiers of the community game or premiership.
The WRU has proved time and again, it cannot be trusted.
How can we plan for next season, when budgets, are still not yet agreed upon?
What business can possibly operate like that?

The way the union have approached the women's game, prove it can be done.
Root and branch changes need to be made and a firm commitment to build from a solid base, with strong investment to grow the game, from a young age, right through
Only then, we will have better chance of success on the international stage, on a regular basis.
This is the only way we will survive!




Good point about moriarty, an abrasive specimen who at least attempts to cross the gain line

His discipline has been poor for as long as I can remember
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 7:59am
Surely the WRU must terminate the contracts of the coaching team en bloc. The performances are totally unacceptable. What happened about we get better as we have more access to the players - total stupidity. The WRU should already have agreed a contract with the next head coach - all that remains to be done is to try to bring their start date forward to January 1st. Months ago my suggestions were Robertson or Shaun Edwards as head coach. Shaun is now out of the equation as he has signed an extension to 2027 with France. 

Get Robertson in with his own team - pay whatever compensation they need to the Crusaders. Pivac & his coaching team have made us a laughing stock & it has to end now. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mr Ian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 8:06am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Surely the WRU must terminate the contracts of the coaching team en bloc. The performances are totally unacceptable. What happened about we get better as we have more access to the players - total stupidity. The WRU should already have agreed a contract with the next head coach - all that remains to be done is to try to bring their start date forward to January 1st. Months ago my suggestions were Robertson or Shaun Edwards as head coach. Shaun is now out of the equation as he has signed an extension to 2027 with France. 

Get Robertson in with his own team - pay whatever compensation they need to the Crusaders. Pivac & his coaching team have made us a laughing stock & it has to end now. 


him or Pat Lam...the difficoult is to understand who is more congeniale with welsh style....
at least give all the bads on Pivac it s not so honest...he manages the players that the system develops..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dr_martinov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 8:50am
Very glad I celebrated the 2019 Grand Slam as hard as I did as that could be the last for a while. Shame I don't remember any of it. LOL

We did beat Argentina as well so I guess it's not all bad, but losing to Georgia indicates a severe lack of preparation, poor game plan and players cannot be implementing their skills, fitness and strength on the pitch. I didn't watch the game so that is based on player level, you know Georgia will have a top front row, strong scrum plus a danger player or two but Wales should be superior in all other aspects. 

I will say well done to Georgia but yet another massive wake up call for Wales. Losing to Italy and Georgia in Cardiff should not be acceptable. A win against Australia would certainly improve things so I even say this is now a must win game for Pivac and co. I actually wouldn't be surprised if we won as it's the inconsistency that's our current hallmark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 9:09am
Originally posted by dr_martinov dr_martinov wrote:

Very glad I celebrated the 2019 Grand Slam as hard as I did as that could be the last for a while. Shame I don't remember any of it. LOL

We did beat Argentina as well so I guess it's not all bad, but losing to Georgia indicates a severe lack of preparation, poor game plan and players cannot be implementing their skills, fitness and strength on the pitch. I didn't watch the game so that is based on player level, you know Georgia will have a top front row, strong scrum plus a danger player or two but Wales should be superior in all other aspects. 

I will say well done to Georgia but yet another massive wake up call for Wales. Losing to Italy and Georgia in Cardiff should not be acceptable. A win against Australia would certainly improve things so I even say this is now a must win game for Pivac and co. I actually wouldn't be surprised if we won as it's the inconsistency that's our current hallmark.

You expect a tough pack but in fairness the two best backs on show were their 9 & 15. There is something deeply worrying about the morale & attitude in the camp. My personal view is that the players do not rate Pivac; I don't think his man management inspires loyalty in the way that Gatland & Edwards did. His selections since he took over have been haphazard. Where was Francis yesterday? Against Argentina he kept Dillon Lewis on the field for 70 minutes - which is a reflection of what he thinks about Wainwright. Given almost 30 minutes yesterday Wainwright was taken to the cleaners. 

Now Wainwright may well be a talent for the future but at the moment the lad should not be anywhere near this squad. He has had less than 20 minutes rugby for Saracens this season - how on earth can that prepare you for International rugby. Harri O'Connor is further along the road at the moment. Equally Cuthbert is brought into games with zero rugby & surprise, surprise he plays poorly. Why not stick with Rio Dyer? His back row all picked up the wrong shirts with Jac playing 7, Josh 6 & Tips 8 - what is that all about? One of the top responsibilities of being head coach is in selection - Pivac has never got anywhere near to understanding or delivering on that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sreve19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 10:32am
The coaching set up rightly have to shoulder the blame but the players showed no desire or want. Georgia played with passion and pride whereas our boys thought all they had to do was turn up. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 12:02pm
Let’s start by congratulating Georgia on a win away to a 6 nations country.  They showed greater composure and game management in the second half (which is when the game is won or lost).
The welsh team showed no composure at any stage in the game. 
The forwards were woeful, our scrum got destroyed by the Georgian pack, our lineout wasn’t great, meaning that it was difficult to get quick ball, the exception being the 1st Jac Morgan try.  Beard shouldn’t be anywhere near the national squad, let alone be the lineout captain, Tipuric is another living off past reputation (and you could argue a lack of players upto international standard being available).
Tomos Williams continues to just play his own game, meaning that the other welsh backs are often either chasing his aimless kicks or are too far behind to offer him any support lines.  North and Watkins are too one dimensional to play alongside eachother, you need 2 contrasting centres to be successful at breaking defences in the modern game, also North can’t tackle well and takes too long to get back in the defensive line when he is beaten.
The back 3 (on paper) should be very dangerous with go forward ball, but as we saw yesterday, the platform wasn’t there and the players inside were too slow to put them in space.
Pivac and co are not up to the job, their selections are too inconsistent, so are their messages about the reasons for their selections, however, the problem lies more with the WRU.
Time and time again we see developments in the professional game blocked by gras roots members (due to our archaic model), we’ve seen a business model that see’s a bigger interest in making money over rugby development.  We’ve seen money invested in hotels over regional and grassroots rugby.
We’ve seen punts on coaches at both at national and regional level (probably due to funding constraints) time and time again.
Gatland managed to mould players into winners, due to his playing structure, in spite of the system, not because of the system.  Pivac doesn’t appear to have that skill and the results are clear to see.
People will now be calling for change and the WRU will probably recommend reducing the number of regions again.  That would be disastrous as it would reduce the opportunities for new players and would seriously reduce the number of players available for selection.  We need more funds to allow the regions to build bigger squads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by Legendinmybathroom Legendinmybathroom wrote:

Let’s start by congratulating Georgia on a win away to a 6 nations country.  They showed greater composure and game management in the second half (which is when the game is won or lost).
The welsh team showed no composure at any stage in the game. 
The forwards were woeful, our scrum got destroyed by the Georgian pack, our lineout wasn’t great, meaning that it was difficult to get quick ball, the exception being the 1st Jac Morgan try.  Beard shouldn’t be anywhere near the national squad, let alone be the lineout captain, Tipuric is another living off past reputation (and you could argue a lack of players upto international standard being available).
Tomos Williams continues to just play his own game, meaning that the other welsh backs are often either chasing his aimless kicks or are too far behind to offer him any support lines.  North and Watkins are too one dimensional to play alongside eachother, you need 2 contrasting centres to be successful at breaking defences in the modern game, also North can’t tackle well and takes too long to get back in the defensive line when he is beaten.
The back 3 (on paper) should be very dangerous with go forward ball, but as we saw yesterday, the platform wasn’t there and the players inside were too slow to put them in space.
Pivac and co are not up to the job, their selections are too inconsistent, so are their messages about the reasons for their selections, however, the problem lies more with the WRU.
Time and time again we see developments in the professional game blocked by gras roots members (due to our archaic model), we’ve seen a business model that see’s a bigger interest in making money over rugby development.  We’ve seen money invested in hotels over regional and grassroots rugby.
We’ve seen punts on coaches at both at national and regional level (probably due to funding constraints) time and time again.
Gatland managed to mould players into winners, due to his playing structure, in spite of the system, not because of the system.  Pivac doesn’t appear to have that skill and the results are clear to see.
People will now be calling for change and the WRU will probably recommend reducing the number of regions again.  That would be disastrous as it would reduce the opportunities for new players and would seriously reduce the number of players available for selection.  We need more funds to allow the regions to build bigger squads.

Legend is correct in what he says,and mirrors what I said earlier about fundemetal change including a total review of the funding model.
Whatever  coach comes in has to deal with the same system,and a completely  shortage of quality players at top level.
I imagine if we had started with a better spine of Francis,a fully fit wyn Jones, Rowlands,falateu, plus a better balanced midfield
( tomkins/Anscombe ) things might have been better.Also we missed the competitors that Dan Bigger is, and despite his limitations,  is a good leader, maybe  if a little too vociferous(opposite of Tips)
The point is however, we should have enough players to to cover these individuals,  but we do'nt as yesterday proved.
The structure of how we play is also missing,  but not having a huge number of carriers limits us.

One final point.
Putting things in perspective, a below parr Ireland, were still good enough to beat the aussies yesterday,  highlighting the depth they now have on a week to week basis.
Scotland slaughtered a pumas, who we struggled to beat plus a very average England were able to claw back a draw against one of the poorest all blacks side I have seen..a side which slaughtered Wales.

It really is time for change.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoppy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 1:57pm
Wales have lost 8 out of 11 Internationals this year 

Should Georgia be bought into the six nations after beating Italy and Wales 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hoppy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 2:23pm
Watched highlights of the game on s4C last night that was enough 

Feel sorry for the 63,585 Fans who paid good money to watch it


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roy munster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by hoppy hoppy wrote:

Wales have lost 8 out of 11 Internationals this year 

Should Georgia be bought into the six nations after beating Italy and Wales 

Next year will be worse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 2:40pm
Welsh rugby has issues all over the place which contribute towards that performance but pivac got things badly wrong again.

Having a front 5 of Jones, Roberts, Wainwright, beard and Jenkins and a 9 who's played the full 80 alongside a youngster at 10 to see the game out is tactically awful.

If you want to see how less experienced players go you probably put someone like awj alongside carter or Jenkins, in the frontrow you'd want ken alongside Wainwright, halfbacks you start with either costelow or dane. Pivac and gats before him really aren't very smart when bringing players through.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 3:16pm
Originally posted by hoppy hoppy wrote:

Wales have lost 8 out of 11 Internationals this year 

Should Georgia be bought into the six nations after beating Italy and Wales 
South Africa will be the next side joining the Six Nations 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletpimp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 4:25pm
Just read  what Sam warburton has said about the governance  of WRU, and he is spot on.
In Wales, we have the 'tail wagging the dog',and small clubs blocking essential changes..such as the recent meeting,which has already  been covered and commented on by the forum. 
LEGEND, has also mentioned  this in a recent  post.

Sacking Pivac is correct,  but the fundamental  changes which govern our game must go hand in hand.
We cannot go on the way we are , sweeping under the carpet the general deterioration of rugby in Wales , by the occasional good international  performance ,and that's becoming a  rare commodity Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wil Chips Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 November 2022 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by Gate12 Gate12 wrote:

Welsh rugby has issues all over the place which contribute towards that performance but pivac got things badly wrong again.

Having a front 5 of Jones, Roberts, Wainwright, beard and Jenkins and a 9 who's played the full 80 alongside a youngster at 10 to see the game out is tactically awful.

If you want to see how less experienced players go you probably put someone like awj alongside carter or Jenkins, in the frontrow you'd want ken alongside Wainwright, halfbacks you start with either costelow or dane. Pivac and gats before him really aren't very smart when bringing players through.


These were inevitable, almost engineered, outcomes, as was starting a 6,8,12,13 and 15 in shirts that their club/region don't.

Clearly we were planned to be home and hosed by the hour mark, and to be fair after 20 mins that looked a reasonable possibility, what ensued however, was a bus crash of biblical proportions.

You have to feel a bit for Daf Jenkins, Costelow and even Wainwright to an extent...put on with the opposition in the ascendancy and expected to see the team home.

Nicky Smith and Francis on the naughty step, Carre excluded in the manner of us having options in the front row akin to that of SA...?

Georgia are a Tier 1 country in one facet of play alone, scrums...so you pick a front row bench that aren't first choice for their teams, have a handful of playing minutes between them this season to match them?

Nah, you deserve all you get. Daft.

You can bring AWJ, Anscombe and presumably Francis back in next week (losing Rees-Zammitt, Daf Jenkins, Tompkins, Tschiunza and Refell to the squad).
Hardly ideal against an improved Australia.

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