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Where do Wales stand.

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GPR - Rochester View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 July 2022 at 8:44am
Now that the dust has settled where do we think we are in terms of winning the 2023 World Cup. On the positive side we could have beaten the favourites - France if Foxy had accepted a decent inside pass, we have just lost a series 2-1 away to the current World champions & should have won the series had it not been for a pretty dire refereeing performance in the 1st test.

On the negative side we lost to Italy at home, Ireland in Dublin last 6 nations hammered us & our free flowing attacking game of 2021 has been ditched for some more Warrenball so its no surprise that Gatland himself has recently made positive comments about his successor. 

Can we win the World Cup by playing 10/11 man rugby relying on excellent box kicking, dogged chasing, backing our aerial skills & smothering defence? If that is the way Pivac and his team decide to go then he is going to need to commit to that style and make a few changes which are pretty obvious. Kieran Hardy's massively improved box kicking was the basis of our game. Is it only me who believes, if this is the focus of our play, then we should have someone on the bench who can come on with 20 minutes to go and carry on the plan seemlessly - step up Aled Davies.

The 2nd change he needs to make is at 12. This plan is crying out for another Jamie Roberts type who can command the gainline. Tompkins is many things but he is not a very good 2nd playmaker nor indeed a gainline presence. How about we try either Johnny Williams or move George North to 12. My choice, of course, if his form is the same as last season would be Scott Williams but his star does not seem to burn so bright with Pivac so lets consider the above 2. If we move North to 12 who plays 13? As we are looking to dominate aerially a back 4 of Mason Grady, Cuthbert, LRZ & Liam or North, Cuthbert, LRZ & Adams may be worth considering. 

Next the forwards - Lake has to improve his lineout work as we are missing out on pressure building positions. Who fills the bench back row position? Should we have Jac Morgan available to replace the excellent Reffell if he takes a bump or runs out of gas. Do we need some versatility at 19 with someone who can do the dirty work of Lydiate but also add some carrying & lineout ability. Ratti needs to be given a chance but the stand out appears to be Tschiunza who will only improve further given his planned increase in gametime for Exeter next season.

So how about this 23 for the pool games against Australia & Fiji next year - with of course the proviso that our limited gameplan doesn't change.

15. Adams 14. LRZ 13. North 12. Williams ( either one) 11. Cuthbert 10. Biggar 9. Hardy
1. Gareth Thomas 2. Ryan 3. Francis 4. Beard 5. Rowlands 6. Lydiate 7. Reffell 8. Faletau

16. Lake or Ken 17. Wyn 18. Lewis 19. Tschiunza 20. Morgan 21. Aled Davies 22. Anscombe 23. The other Williams. 

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ladram View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ladram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 9:10am
I think pics needs to decide on his best 15 and their number 2's in respective positions and stick to it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 11:22am
Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Now that the dust has settled where do we think we are in terms of winning the 2023 World Cup. On the positive side we could have beaten the favourites - France if Foxy had accepted a decent inside pass, we have just lost a series 2-1 away to the current World champions & should have won the series had it not been for a pretty dire refereeing performance in the 1st test.

On the negative side we lost to Italy at home, Ireland in Dublin last 6 nations hammered us & our free flowing attacking game of 2021 has been ditched for some more Warrenball so its no surprise that Gatland himself has recently made positive comments about his successor. 

Can we win the World Cup by playing 10/11 man rugby relying on excellent box kicking, dogged chasing, backing our aerial skills & smothering defence? If that is the way Pivac and his team decide to go then he is going to need to commit to that style and make a few changes which are pretty obvious. Kieran Hardy's massively improved box kicking was the basis of our game. Is it only me who believes, if this is the focus of our play, then we should have someone on the bench who can come on with 20 minutes to go and carry on the plan seemlessly - step up Aled Davies.

The 2nd change he needs to make is at 12. This plan is crying out for another Jamie Roberts type who can command the gainline. Tompkins is many things but he is not a very good 2nd playmaker nor indeed a gainline presence. How about we try either Johnny Williams or move George North to 12. My choice, of course, if his form is the same as last season would be Scott Williams but his star does not seem to burn so bright with Pivac so lets consider the above 2. If we move North to 12 who plays 13? As we are looking to dominate aerially a back 4 of Mason Grady, Cuthbert, LRZ & Liam or North, Cuthbert, LRZ & Adams may be worth considering. 

Next the forwards - Lake has to improve his lineout work as we are missing out on pressure building positions. Who fills the bench back row position? Should we have Jac Morgan available to replace the excellent Reffell if he takes a bump or runs out of gas. Do we need some versatility at 19 with someone who can do the dirty work of Lydiate but also add some carrying & lineout ability. Ratti needs to be given a chance but the stand out appears to be Tschiunza who will only improve further given his planned increase in gametime for Exeter next season.

So how about this 23 for the pool games against Australia & Fiji next year - with of course the proviso that our limited gameplan doesn't change.

15. Adams 14. LRZ 13. North 12. Williams ( either one) 11. Cuthbert 10. Biggar 9. Hardy
1. Gareth Thomas 2. Ryan 3. Francis 4. Beard 5. Rowlands 6. Lydiate 7. Reffell 8. Faletau

16. Lake or Ken 17. Wyn 18. Lewis 19. Tschiunza 20. Morgan 21. Aled Davies 22. Anscombe 23. The other Williams. 

Agree with most of this but Aled Davies is ineligible 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 11:24am
Well finish 4th in 6 nations and could go out in group stages of world cup, pivac a poor coach and stevo appears to be flattening out to. Walker interview in wol a master class in self delusion

Edited by RR1972 - 24 July 2022 at 11:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 11:29am
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Well finish 4th in 6 nations and could go out in group stages of world cup, pivac a poor coach and stevo appears to be flattening out to. Walker interview in wol a master class in self delusion
And equally looking at the draw they could make a World Cup semi-final. Australia are no great shakes, while a quarter final v Australia/Argentina is winnable. Pivac deserves a lot of credit for Wales’ significantly improved performances in SA. A lot of the criticism has been valid but credit where it is due.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 11:37am
Played well first game tbh we were luvky to win sexond and poor in 3rd. Our attacking play v average . He still got it all to prove in fairness. Effort and defence v good though

Edited by RR1972 - 24 July 2022 at 11:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 12:05pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Played well first game tbh we were luvky to win sexond and poor in 3rd. Our attacking play v average . He still got it all to prove in fairness. Effort and defence v good though
They weren’t lucky in the second, and they weren’t poor in the third. It was just a step too far. Wales had never won a test in SA before this tour. They deserve a tiny bit of credit 

Edited by scarletnut - 24 July 2022 at 12:06pm
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 1:15pm
They were lucky pollard dire kick at 6 points clear was so bad it went backwards and gave us the ball. Shocking play tbh. We lost by 16 points in the 3rd and beat their reserves by a point lets not go over the top,  we did better than i thought we would though! Sp i give them credit for that

Edited by RR1972 - 24 July 2022 at 1:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban89 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 1:18pm
We will always have a chance, but it'll be an outside chance. We don't quite have the quality to dominate in any area. Plus we seem to have a knack of making poor decisions in the last 10 in close games. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jones2004 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 1:50pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by GPR - Rochester GPR - Rochester wrote:

Now that the dust has settled where do we think we are in terms of winning the 2023 World Cup. On the positive side we could have beaten the favourites - France if Foxy had accepted a decent inside pass, we have just lost a series 2-1 away to the current World champions & should have won the series had it not been for a pretty dire refereeing performance in the 1st test.

On the negative side we lost to Italy at home, Ireland in Dublin last 6 nations hammered us & our free flowing attacking game of 2021 has been ditched for some more Warrenball so its no surprise that Gatland himself has recently made positive comments about his successor. 

Can we win the World Cup by playing 10/11 man rugby relying on excellent box kicking, dogged chasing, backing our aerial skills & smothering defence? If that is the way Pivac and his team decide to go then he is going to need to commit to that style and make a few changes which are pretty obvious. Kieran Hardy's massively improved box kicking was the basis of our game. Is it only me who believes, if this is the focus of our play, then we should have someone on the bench who can come on with 20 minutes to go and carry on the plan seemlessly - step up Aled Davies.

The 2nd change he needs to make is at 12. This plan is crying out for another Jamie Roberts type who can command the gainline. Tompkins is many things but he is not a very good 2nd playmaker nor indeed a gainline presence. How about we try either Johnny Williams or move George North to 12. My choice, of course, if his form is the same as last season would be Scott Williams but his star does not seem to burn so bright with Pivac so lets consider the above 2. If we move North to 12 who plays 13? As we are looking to dominate aerially a back 4 of Mason Grady, Cuthbert, LRZ & Liam or North, Cuthbert, LRZ & Adams may be worth considering. 

Next the forwards - Lake has to improve his lineout work as we are missing out on pressure building positions. Who fills the bench back row position? Should we have Jac Morgan available to replace the excellent Reffell if he takes a bump or runs out of gas. Do we need some versatility at 19 with someone who can do the dirty work of Lydiate but also add some carrying & lineout ability. Ratti needs to be given a chance but the stand out appears to be Tschiunza who will only improve further given his planned increase in gametime for Exeter next season.

So how about this 23 for the pool games against Australia & Fiji next year - with of course the proviso that our limited gameplan doesn't change.

15. Adams 14. LRZ 13. North 12. Williams ( either one) 11. Cuthbert 10. Biggar 9. Hardy
1. Gareth Thomas 2. Ryan 3. Francis 4. Beard 5. Rowlands 6. Lydiate 7. Reffell 8. Faletau

16. Lake or Ken 17. Wyn 18. Lewis 19. Tschiunza 20. Morgan 21. Aled Davies 22. Anscombe 23. The other Williams. 

Agree with most of this but Aled Davies is ineligible 
I think we all know GPR’s opinion on how eligibility should be changedWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 3:59pm
We won’t win anything by box kicning and looking
To defend that was our main tactic in the last two games. We have good backs lets use them more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Owen111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 July 2022 at 4:39pm
for me an out of form liam williams starts well ahead of josh adams at fb 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2022 at 7:21am
Originally posted by Owen111 Owen111 wrote:

for me an out of form liam williams starts well ahead of josh adams at fb 

Thats a fair point & one I wouldn't labour too much over. Liam is no way the player he was at the last World Cup but 15 is a position we are seriously exposed. My suggestion about Adams is that he seems to look to get himself involved in games. I guess the point I am making is that we must decide on a way of playing which Pivac, in fairness, does seem to have chosen. The fact that it is not a style that sits well with me is pretty irrelevant.

As for our prospects come World Cup my expectations are much higher post tour than pre tour. As Steff points out we have a very favourable pool & draw & neither Australia or Argentina are unbeatable. In addition even if we finish 2nd in our pool we would probably play England who are still nowhere near a top team. I will get a far better idea of how far this team have come after we play Ireland at home in the 2023 6 nations. Its one thing dogging it out against a team who try to bully you and whose main attacking weapon is aerially its a total other thing to stay in the fight against an all court team with forwards and backs who seek space, support and offload superbly.

Of course there are areas of Ireland's team which are attackable - they rely heavily on fitness & availability of Porter, Furlong, Ryan, Beirne, Van der Flier & Sexton. They do not have seemless alternatives for these guys. However a fully loaded Ireland against a fully loaded Wales will tell us a lot as will the two games coming up between SA & NZ.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2022 at 8:03am
Games against South Africa are always deceiving as they never really put teams to the sword and generally just do enough to win, must be quite a frustrating team to support because they always seems like they've got more in them (despite their huge success).

Wales might be able to dog it out to another knock out game but until they sort out the 10/12/13 positions won't have the attacking game to take out a few big teams. Looking forward to the WC though with so many players now eligible for the likes of Tonga, Samoa and Fiji. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 July 2022 at 9:40am
I know Biggar is probably one of the best defensive 10s in the world but from an attacking point of view, our ability to get he back line moving is reduced. Having Johnny or Scott at 12 would help too, I don't really see the fuss of Tompkins but he seems to be the guy with the 12 shirt. I'm still not sold on North at 13 but I can't say too much on that when he's hardly got the ball in space.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 July 2022 at 2:08pm
I think we need to get rid of Beard he offers nothing apart from defensive maul at the line outside the odd line out take.  He doesn’t carry he makes few tackles and rarely hits mauls or rucks with any force. He is the most unathletic bloke we have had in the second row since Derwyn Jones. Give Carter Dafydd Jenkins or Chris Tz a go I say and bomb the beard. Days have gone when you can carry a player in the team. 
I know I go on about it but can anyone shed any light on why we stick with him. 
She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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