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WRU announce 3 new national dual contracts

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cornelius View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cornelius Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 11:12am
Why the confusion?
The dual contract money will be shared equally between the regions (with alternative ways used to match the amounts)
So it does not matter who has dc's!!!
The match limit is worked on an individual basis and comes in at around 30 games per season (the less for wales = more for clubs)
DC = PR exersise for the Losing side in our civil war

The truth is that Dual Contracts don't really exist in real terms
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 11:32am
Originally posted by TekVues TekVues wrote:

I'm more concerned that the likes of Jake Ball hasn't (as yet) been offered a duel contract. We are lucky that we have players like Liam and Ken who commit their immediate future to the region. Hopefully Jake will follow shortly. 
Yes Jake has been offered a dual contract
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote dantheman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 11:32am
Dual contracts haven't got the interest of the players to the extent the WRU expected hence contracting marginal players such as Amos and Rhodri.

Its no coincidence that Derwyn is agent for all three (and Lydiate).

For the three players themselves they assume signing this contract will boost their international aspirations. I expect as a result they may have taken a discounted wage relative to what they could have got elsewhere.

From the perspective of the Scarlets, it isn't a bad outcome as we would have looked to recontract Rhodri anyway and are now playing significantly less plus any rules the WRU impose on his availability are likely to have limited impact given that he is firmly second choice.

The real prize for us is getting a DC for Owen Williams although I have no idea how likely that is.

I expect us in any case to be trying to bring in a WQ tight head as cover....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Lewis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 11:42am
Originally posted by gnasher1975 gnasher1975 wrote:

Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Originally posted by gnasher1975 gnasher1975 wrote:

I would imagine they are dual contracting prospects at the moment or big stars who are likely to be snapped up outside of Wales. Would have thought Wales and the regions would prefer to have as many player on regional contracts as possible if possible.

Wru would only step in if other teams outside of Wales were offering silly money, regions can't afford.

This to me is the right way to do it. Sign up and secure the next generation properly, while helping regions keep their stars with top ups if they need it.

Samson is still in contract for a while yet isn't he so why throw a dual at him now when we are probably 12 months from even starting negotiations.


Because we'll pay 100% of his wages until his contract is up. With him being the no.1 TH in Wales, with the RWC next year too, I'm not sure how much value for money he'll be next year for us. We probably won't see him in a Scarlets shirt until December, he'll be away agin for the 6N after a month or two with us. Well hardly see him here next season.


I accept your point Hayden but the wru aren't dull so why would they agree to release a good chunk of money to someone who is safely in contract for the time being.

If we were 3 months from the end of his contract I would be saying g the same thing as you but for now I can't see the WRU agreeing to it.

Also does this give us a bit more of a bargaining tool now. As in if someone isn't involved with the matchhday 23 we can request them back under the premise of "if you want him for the duration then you will have to dual contract him"


Using your argument, why has Warburton been moved from a Blues only contract to a DC? It just doesn't add up.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sosban bach Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 11:55am
So an uncapped player gets a DC? Now I am confused. Still least we know rhodri is staying with us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:00pm
A player told me that quite a few of our internationals would prefer to sign new contracts with the club rather than a NDC due to concerns over how many club games they would be available for. They feel the Max club game limit is too low.

If the £2m NDC pot isn't used up the remainder is split equally amongst the 4 regions.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:09pm
Originally posted by gnasher1975 gnasher1975 wrote:

Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Originally posted by gnasher1975 gnasher1975 wrote:

I would imagine they are dual contracting prospects at the moment or big stars who are likely to be snapped up outside of Wales. Would have thought Wales and the regions would prefer to have as many player on regional contracts as possible if possible.

Wru would only step in if other teams outside of Wales were offering silly money, regions can't afford.

This to me is the right way to do it. Sign up and secure the next generation properly, while helping regions keep their stars with top ups if they need it.

Samson is still in contract for a while yet isn't he so why throw a dual at him now when we are probably 12 months from even starting negotiations.


Because we'll pay 100% of his wages until his contract is up. With him being the no.1 TH in Wales, with the RWC next year too, I'm not sure how much value for money he'll be next year for us. We probably won't see him in a Scarlets shirt until December, he'll be away agin for the 6N after a month or two with us. Well hardly see him here next season.


I accept your point Hayden but the wru aren't dull so why would they agree to release a good chunk of money to someone who is safely in contract for the time being.

If we were 3 months from the end of his contract I would be saying g the same thing as you but for now I can't see the WRU agreeing to it.

Also does this give us a bit more of a bargaining tool now. As in if someone isn't involved with the matchhday 23 we can request them back under the premise of "if you want him for the duration then you will have to dual contract him"

Unfortunately, your last sentence is not correct. IIRC in the new RSA, Wales can hold players if they want to in camp, even if they're not in the matchday 23. Apparently it preceedes the IRB regs on player release.

Going back to Samson, I'm sure if the WRU wanted to DC him now rather than when his contract is up with us, I'm sure his value will have gone up in 2 years time (which IIRC is when it expires), so he will be far more expensive when a) he's got 2 years more experience under his belt, and b) when other sides will come sniffing around knowing he's out of contract - principles of supply and demand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewbank2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:11pm
Aye it's not bad for us. Now Rhodri's future is secured, the 60% of his wages that we've saved can go to top up someone else. The concerning thing is that it seems to be more appealing to have a regional contract rather than a DC. at least unspent monies will be split between the 4 clubs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:20pm
I can't remember what they were (and can't be bothered to look) but didn't the magical number of 5 dual contacts trigger certain aspects of the new agreement between the wru and regions?

Just give Derwyn a shout and bang we've hit the 5.

All a bit of a joke really, just hope that no-one managed to hike their wage up wasting joint funds which could have been better used elsewhere just so the wru can save face getting a few more on dual contacts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote haydn_davies Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:23pm
Thought it was 6?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:


If the £2m NDC pot isn't used up the remainder is split equally amongst the 4 regions.



We (and the Os and Blues) must be mad to let the Dragons have 25% of that money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dai Baker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:40pm
Slight over-reaction taking place here I feel.

Its no surprise really that negotiations with 3 young prospects have been concluded quicker than those with established world class internationals!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by Mugwuffin Mugwuffin wrote:


If the £2m NDC pot isn't used up the remainder is split equally amongst the 4 regions.



We (and the Os and Blues) must be mad to let the Dragons have 25% of that money.

The Dragons look likely to derive undeserved benefit from Gatland being a bit selfish in trying to restrict our top players' club appearances.

I'm told that Jake Ball will probably sign a NDC and stay with us.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PearlJam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by dantheman dantheman wrote:


Its no coincidence that Derwyn is agent for all three (and Lydiate).

This is the key point in all this, isn't it? Chuck Warburton in here and there's a very Derwyn Jones shaped result. The guy has cleaned-up here. Getting into bed with the WRU and shovelling his players onto DCs, he's making himself a packet for the betterment of the Welsh game.

Jeepers. These are beginning to look like a joke aren't they? 

So far the players signed are ones whose bodies are in bits (Warburton), someone rescued from not playing in France (Lydiate) a third choice right-head (Rhodri) and two uncapped Dragons players. 

What a mess.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Mugwuffin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:47pm
Originally posted by Dai Baker Dai Baker wrote:

Slight over-reaction taking place here I feel.

Its no surprise really that negotiations with 3 young prospects have been concluded quicker than those with established world class internationals!

You try and get your key players signed up first. Amos, Rhodri Jones and Tyler Morgan are not key players for the national team. The dual contract money was meant to be used to keep our best players out of the clutches of the English and French clubs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gate12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 December 2014 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by haydn_davies haydn_davies wrote:

Thought it was 6?


Nearly there then, the principle of my point remains.
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