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thommo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thommo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Despite all this Wales have been successful over the last decade or so. 🤔
But the underfunding of the pro game is catching up with them now. It was always going to take a while 
playing devils afvocate here if the regions got handed £1,000,000 extra funding would they buy say 4 top nwq players? I wpuld if i were them  And if so how would that improve the test team?
Oh come on now it would improve the test team because younger players would be playing a higher standard of rugby and the culture would be better. Ask Justin Tipuric how much he learnt from Marty Holah or Sam Warburton Xavier Rush. Signing All Blacks, and Springboks is invaluable to developing players. How much will Morgan Jones and Jac Price learn from Fifita? A lot more than he would training with a middle of the road Welsh player. And I don’t know why you are using the word “handed”. The WRU don’t fund three of the four pro sides. They pay them for the services of their players. We have to get away from the handout narrative. It’s untrue 
Agree 100%. Leinster rugby have stated the positive impact Brad Thorne and Isa Nacewa had on their young guns.
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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 8:47pm
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Despite all this Wales have been successful over the last decade or so. 🤔
But the underfunding of the pro game is catching up with them now. It was always going to take a while 
playing devils afvocate here if the regions got handed £1,000,000 extra funding would they buy say 4 top nwq players? I wpuld if i were them  And if so how would that improve the test team?
Oh come on now it would improve the test team because younger players would be playing a higher standard of rugby and the culture would be better. Ask Justin Tipuric how much he learnt from Marty Holah or Sam Warburton Xavier Rush. Signing All Blacks, and Springboks is invaluable to developing players. How much will Morgan Jones and Jac Price learn from Fifita? A lot more than he would training with a middle of the road Welsh player. And I don’t know why you are using the word “handed”. The WRU don’t fund three of the four pro sides. They pay them for the services of their players. We have to get away from the handout narrative. It’s untrue 
so what your saying is young players will learn from top nwq players? Good point one i agree with but it gcertainly won’t improve the test team in the short term ,l. Where as top class coaching of our elite players would pivac humphreys and gethin are not top class coaches the jury still out on stevp to. again playing devils advocate how can paying 80 per cent of a players salary mean you are using regional players it’s pretty much the other way round surely?

Edited by RR1972 - 07 February 2022 at 8:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Legendinmybathroom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 10:20pm
Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Despite all this Wales have been successful over the last decade or so. 🤔

Pivac made a very interesting comment on the 6nations preview with Eddie Butler- when asked why the welsh players play better when with Wales compared to playing for their regions, his response was that the players immediately raise their standards and effort by approximately 20% as soon as they arrive at the jail of Glamorgan.
That to me suggests that since the WRU signed 38 elite players(kind of central contract) they (elite players) have been holding back on regional performances as they expected to play a part in every international window/squad regardless on their regional form.  It also suggests that players are more interested in playing for Team Wales than playing for their regions.
That doesn’t happen in France or England, where you first have to be performing at your best at club level to be selected for the national squad.  So you are rewarded for high standards at club level and not just given a bye into the national team.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 10:33pm
A lot of wales test players go through the motions at the regions 100 per cent agree with you
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 10:56pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by SA14 SA14 wrote:

Despite all this Wales have been successful over the last decade or so. 🤔
But the underfunding of the pro game is catching up with them now. It was always going to take a while 
playing devils afvocate here if the regions got handed £1,000,000 extra funding would they buy say 4 top nwq players? I wpuld if i were them  And if so how would that improve the test team?
Oh come on now it would improve the test team because younger players would be playing a higher standard of rugby and the culture would be better. Ask Justin Tipuric how much he learnt from Marty Holah or Sam Warburton Xavier Rush. Signing All Blacks, and Springboks is invaluable to developing players. How much will Morgan Jones and Jac Price learn from Fifita? A lot more than he would training with a middle of the road Welsh player. And I don’t know why you are using the word “handed”. The WRU don’t fund three of the four pro sides. They pay them for the services of their players. We have to get away from the handout narrative. It’s untrue 
so what your saying is young players will learn from top nwq players? Good point one i agree with but it gcertainly won’t improve the test team in the short term ,l. Where as top class coaching of our elite players would pivac humphreys and gethin are not top class coaches the jury still out on stevp to. again playing devils advocate how can paying 80 per cent of a players salary mean you are using regional players it’s pretty much the other way round surely?
You really don’t get how the pro sides are funded do you? The 80-20% is the agreed method of payment for these players. They aren’t central contracts. It’s an upfront payment for using the services of the players who are employees of the pro clubs. The payment model was changed three years ago by Martyn Phillips. That 80% belongs to the pro sides, it’s their money. The Dragons are obviously different because they are owned by the WRU.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 February 2022 at 10:58pm
Originally posted by RR1972 RR1972 wrote:

A lot of wales test players go through the motions at the regions 100 per cent agree with you
This is true as far am I’m concerned 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 7:31am
The elite 38 programme & the 80% payment for services rules should be scrapped. Nothing is going to change the culture and quality of Welsh rugby overnight - we all have to appreciate that. But the start is to have a comprehensive, fully funded plan for regional/club improvement & success. 

Having 38 elite players named at the beginning of each year seems to restrict Pivac in his selections throughout that year & reduces competition for places. Nothing is worse to hear for me than experienced Internationals saying they are returning to Welsh club rugby because they will be managed better & therefore prolong their International careers. What about the team that is paying you for f... sake. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Why Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 7:40am
One obvious thing to do is get rid of Dragons who have been a drain on resources for too long without achieving anything. They have been a joke and Ryan talks a good game but is doing no better than the previous shambles.
At the moment they are a luxury the WRU cannot afford 

She asks why i still can't answer. I guess its in the blood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 7:51am
I don't know if just losing a professional club is the answer. The whole system in Wales to me appears unlinked & not fit for purpose. It all starts with getting the number of youngsters interested in playing the game, identifying talent and providing World class facilities to develop that talent through to professionalism. 

Lets say we lost the Dragons that would mean losing 40-50 professional players most of whom were Welsh from the game in Wales. Other clubs/regions would pick up their better players so other players would lose their contracts. How does that benefit Welsh rugby? Surely we need to encourage more to play the game and attain professional standards whether that is inside or outside Wales. 

I would like to think that if many of us on this forum have been able to see this coming for a number of years then there must be employees at the WRU who have been all over this issue for many years with a blueprint plan about to be issued. The fact that there is no such plan is taking professional negligence to another level. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 8:59am
Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

One obvious thing to do is get rid of Dragons who have been a drain on resources for too long without achieving anything. They have been a joke and Ryan talks a good game but is doing no better than the previous shambles.
At the moment they are a luxury the WRU cannot afford 

The Dragons shouldn’t go. A pro side could be cut but it wouldn’t be them and rightly so.
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 9:04am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

One obvious thing to do is get rid of Dragons who have been a drain on resources for too long without achieving anything. They have been a joke and Ryan talks a good game but is doing no better than the previous shambles.
At the moment they are a luxury the WRU cannot afford 

The Dragons shouldn’t go. A pro side could be cut but it wouldn’t be them and rightly so.

Why do you say that Steff? 

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RR1972 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RR1972 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 9:27am
Originally posted by scarletnut scarletnut wrote:

Originally posted by Why Why wrote:

One obvious thing to do is get rid of Dragons who have been a drain on resources for too long without achieving anything. They have been a joke and Ryan talks a good game but is doing no better than the previous shambles.
At the moment they are a luxury the WRU cannot afford 

The Dragons shouldn’t go. A pro side could be cut but it wouldn’t be them and rightly so.
why ? They are always the lowest placed welsh team? Over the years have produced the least players for wales, they are the obvious one to cull
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GPR - Rochester Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 9:36am
Are we thinking about this from the correct viewpoint? In an ideal World we need as many professional players in the pool from which to select strong regional sides and thereafter the Welsh team. Of course finance matter hugely but without the correct pathways in identifying & nurturing talent throwing more money at 2/3 clubs/regions is not the long term answer.

Who is saying that with a dramatic overhaul of how the WRU is set up and run along with employing top hospitality professionals to run the Principality Stadium asset we could not properly finance the four regions/clubs along with their pathways from junior rugby to regional centres of excellence providing top level education & rugby coaching???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote turkishrebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 9:58am
simplifying it all, the issue in wales at the moment is we need more quality players playing for wales.
taking a team away means there is less of an outlet for players to come through. we must remember a player who doesnt work out for us could come through and mature at another region.
the issue is i can see not enough development being brought in for youngsters from early teens to late teens and early 20s. 
They are not playing in a tough enough and quality environment to stretch themselves. 
club rugby is not hard enough, we dont have a 2nds league which would be of use. I would love us to have development teams playing in the english leagues or playing the english teams reserves in a meaningful league and for our youngsters to come through there.
WRU needs to seriously look at this and assist the regions in producing a clear proper structure for our players to come through. watching our under 20s on friday was such a demoralising experience and then watching the national team really show no really cutting edge at the irish shows we have to do something and something soon.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fscarlet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 10:35am
Get rid of having to play in Wales after you're capped if you don't have 60 caps. Look at how Rees-Zammit has developed, similarly Josh Adams. They have become class player by playing outside of Wales, don't force them to come back just to play for a region in a sub standard environment.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 February 2022 at 10:55am
Originally posted by Fscarlet Fscarlet wrote:

Get rid of having to play in Wales after you're capped if you don't have 60 caps. Look at how Rees-Zammit has developed, similarly Josh Adams. They have become class player by playing outside of Wales, don't force them to come back just to play for a region in a sub standard environment.

So you are happy with cutting training sessions during a Six Nations campaign by 75% for the majority of the Wales squad? 
I still wake up late at night and think of what might have been when tim stimpson hit that jammy penalty1
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