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Eastern outpost View Drop Down
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Points: 21281 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 October 2016 at 4:32pm
Thank you Scarletman.

Good to have that cleared up.

Is that any part of the attacker's body?
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Points: 12299 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scarletman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2016 at 8:46am
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Thank you Scarletman.

Good to have that cleared up.

Is that any part of the attacker's body?

See below


Law 22.1 (see below) covers attacking and defending players but in the event of an attacking player carrying out either action a try is scored....

22.1 GROUNDING THE BALL
There are two ways a player can ground the ball:
(a) Player touches the ground with the ball. A player grounds the ball by holding the ball and touching the ground with it, in in-goal. ‘Holding’ means holding in the hand or hands, or in the arm or arms. No downward pressure is required.
(b) Player presses down on the ball. A player grounds the ball when it is on the ground in the in-goal and the player presses down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player’s body from waist to neck inclusive.

22.4 OTHER WAYS TO SCORE A TRY
(a) Grounded on the goal line. The goal line is part of the in-goal. If an attacking player is first to ground the ball on the opponents’ goal line, a try is scored.
(b) Grounded against a goal post. The goal posts and padding surrounding them are part of the goal line, which is part of in-goal. If an attacking player is first to ground the ball against a goal post or padding, a try is scored.


Edited by scarletman - 01 November 2016 at 8:49am
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Eastern outpost View Drop Down
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Points: 21281 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eastern outpost Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2016 at 10:13am
Thanks, once more, Scarletman.

Knowledge is power

Much appreciated.
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Points: 18468 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2016 at 6:36pm
Originally posted by KID A KID A wrote:

I don't think the referee is obliged to go to the TMO, but they can always ask the TMO just to check, whilst play is ongoing.

Nigel Owens ignoring Pascal Pape's accusation of a punch by Sean O'Brien is an example of when the referee should have gone to TMO as O'Brien was suspended for it. But I guess it encourages players to make more accusations.

I think this is the key quote from Scarletman's link:

Any of the match officials, including the TMO, may recommend a review by the TMO. 

So the TMO, or assistant ref,  could in theory have asked the ref to look at the Shingler  incident - maybe the ref was simply too quick to allow an intervention - or the Elias punch (must admit I could not see it, only hte after-effects).
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Points: 18468 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 November 2016 at 6:49pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Watching Brive v Clermont yesterday, The third Clermont try from Nakataci (spelling?) caused referral to the TMO. It was awarded when the TV couldn't show any separation of the hand from the ball, even though the ball bounced away with great height and distance.

A physics question, can you get downwards pressure on the ball when it's in contact with the ground and the ball still travel a long way after, other than by perfect timing? Andy Goode wasn't convinced it was a try and thought he'd lost control. However, due to lack of TV camera operator skill, the best angle showed nothing of the hand and ball, just the arm and body of the player.

I didn't see this incident, but in general if a player bangs the ball down one-handed (for a legitimate try), the ball is pretty much guaranteed to bounce quite a distance unless the ball is touched down vertically. Any angle, and the ball and hand will separate after the touchdown, and how far it goes will depend on the force applied hand-to-ball (or if you prefer, the speed with which the ball is moving during touchdown), and the angle to the horizontal as the ball is moved towards the ground. (A former Physics teacher writes!)

I note that a PhD student at Loughborough has studied oval ball mechanics, though a brief perusal does not convince me that he has studied the situation under consideration in your question. Should you be so inclined - and have several days at your disposal - the link is: 
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Thanks Gerran, much appreciated.
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Points: 18468 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aber-fan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 November 2016 at 2:11pm
Originally posted by Eastern outpost Eastern outpost wrote:

Thanks Gerran, much appreciated.

No problem.

The PhD thesis looked a bit heavy to me! As I say, it didn't seem to cover the situation you described.

I do find - as do the commentators - that it is quite difficult to tell if the ball has been 'properly' touched down one-handed - and perhaps counter-intuitively, it can be harder to take a view on that in slo-mo than at normal speed. A tricky one!
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