Wales Team v England

I agree Watkin doesn't offer much in attack - but next week is all going to be about limited the French score. Can't throw Hennessey into that. 

Costelow a much better defensive OH than Edwards. So James to 12 and Watkin to 13 makes sense. 

dantheman wrote: Players just simply aren't good enough. As an example our starting tighthead is third choice for Bath, since the start of the season he's started the same number of games for Wales as he has for Bath. Macleod is a great club player but isn't an international at that level, same with Mann and Beard. I doubt any of our pack would make that England team, same with the French and probably the Irish. None of our pack offer any real attacking threat at that level in the form of carrying, set piece play or breakdown. Other teams know that and means they can take risks be aggressive and know we won't be able to respond. You can't just be a passive pack which just defends the gain line any longer. The lack of possession will kill you.  I think our backs could turn out to be a reasonable unit but need experience.

Wales always 'carried' a couple of forwards (2nd rows mostly) even in their Grand slam days.

They weren't clear international standard (and I include AWJ in his latter years in that), with the likes of Cory Hill, Beard, Ball, Seb Davies, Bradley Davies, Turnbull) -they emptied the tank but didn't offer much else,

We could hold our scrums through TH though (Adam J/Francis/Samson) and had a top class back row (Warburton/Lydiate/Tipuric/Faletau), with dependable stand ins (Navidi, Shings etc).

It's that TH and back row paucity of options that really hurts us.

No disrespect meant, but if we have to call in the likes of Wainwright to supplement our options we aren't even at regional standard in that position, and it's an indictment of our pathway/system that should Faletau have been fit he would have started...he was our first choice 8 in 2010, and every year in between.

Maybe Francis can come in and hold our scrum, but I just don't see (outside of Jac Morgan) true international calibre forwards over the age of 21...and at 21 I mean they have potential..which may or may not be realised.

In the process of getting back up there, we first have to accept where we are...there's little value in playing top end tier 1 nations .. if we do ok it's because they have decided to give their squad a run out....we need to cut the teeth of our youngsters against the likes of Samoa/Fiji/Tonga/Georgia etc..and see how they develop.

Wil Chips wrote: Wales always 'carried' a couple of forwards (2nd rows mostly) even in their Grand slam days. They weren't clear international standard (and I include AWJ in his latter years in that), with the likes of Cory Hill, Beard, Ball, Seb Davies, Bradley Davies, Turnbull) -they emptied the tank but didn't offer much else, We could hold our scrums through TH though (Adam J/Francis/Samson) and had a top class back row (Warburton/Lydiate/Tipuric/Faletau), with dependable stand ins (Navidi, Shings etc). It's that TH and back row paucity of options that really hurts us. No disrespect meant, but if we have to call in the likes of Wainwright to supplement our options we aren't even at regional standard in that position, and it's an indictment of our pathway/system that should Faletau have been fit he would have started...he was our first choice 8 in 2010, and every year in between. Maybe Francis can come in and hold our scrum, but I just don't see (outside of Jac Morgan) true international calibre forwards over the age of 21...and at 21 I mean they have potential..which may or may not be realised. In the process of getting back up there, we first have to accept where we are...there's little value in playing top end tier 1 nations .. if we do ok it's because they have decided to give their squad a run out....we need to cut the teeth of our youngsters against the likes of Samoa/Fiji/Tonga/Georgia etc..and see how they develop.

If I think back to Gats teams (yes even gats version 2), and I know he had the luxury of Edwards sorting the defence, but you do have to credit him with his emphasis on physicality (even at the expense of flair), matching England France physically is how you stay in the game with them. We also always had a plan - that plan was usually to let Roberts run into the defence by himself but it was still a plan,  and everyone looked like they knew what to do in each situation. And we used to kick points whenever they were on offer. 

ladram wrote: skyblue wrote: Will Chips mentions the failure of the pathway system and the lack of promise of players over 21. I think the press has played a large role in creating problems. We build our young Welsh players up so much it, many people become almost delusional that the standard their playing at is exceptional. I suspect it's to paper over the cracks and keep the pressure off those involved in the pathway system (and of course keeping them in jobs). don't you think we're as much to blame as the press with the expectation surrounding CLJ

Every teenager, with very few exceptions, will serve a mix of s**t and sugar on any given game at a higher level.

It's about how they phase out the s**t...

GPR - Rochester wrote: Well expected result but what did I learn. The overriding lesson of course in yesterdays games is that selection & in game management are the biggest factor in achieving results. Gregor drops 3 Lions out of the game & while Kinghorn sits in the stand protecting himself from the deluge his replacement goes missing in action. Hope that Gregor has his contract with Red Bull for next season signed & sealed as he will be looking for a job shortly. Tandy could not pick his nose or run a corner shop. We have dealt with the selection issues already but one thing stood out for me in that pooshow of a performance and that was the decision by Tandy to remove Eddie James to accomodate one of the two front rowers in the bin. He compounded it by then trying to defend with LRZ in the backfield & asking Ellis to defend 50% of the field width. FFS its common bloody sense that you mark up in midfield in that situation & test them to make something of the fact that you don't have a 15.  England did nothing of quality & scored 48 points. 4 yellow cards 16 penalties. For sure we have serious resource issues but I would put my house on the fact that if we broke the bank & bought Shaun Edwards out of his contract & made him an offer he couldn't refuse we would see an instant massive improvement from that squad.  His first decisions would be that Ben Thomas, Belcher, Beard & Mann never get selected again. One proviso is that Mann could alter that if he put on 10 kgs because he does at least have a big heart. LRZ will never be an international 15, Eddie is wasted at 13, Edwards bless him is very limited at 10 but who else is there, Lake is not an International hooker & definitely never a captain. Tandy is responsible for these deecisions & I have seen more than enough to know he is not up to the job. Selection is key & discipline is non negotiable. Shaun Edwards would have that squad in fear of their lives after a performance like that.