When a tackle becomes a ruck

Two players on their feet (one from each side) contesting the ball on the floor, is a ruck ... The players off their feet are NOT part of the Ruck, but are part of a "pile up" ....

Once "RUCK" is called, no player should use his hands, so you are correct. At the highest level, the general concensus is that if the Ruck hasn't been turned over in the first two seconds, it is "Ball Lost"... a phrase you'll hear Nigel Owens use frequently, then the defending side will re-set to defend the next phase ...

As you decend through the levels of Rugby, that two seconds gets considerably longer, & "pile ups" are a mopre frequent occurrance.

Once the counter ruck is no longer an option & the defence re-sets, referees will allow the tackled player to assist the ball to exit the ruck quickly to aid the game to flow... However, if the hand pushing the ball back, belongs to ANY other player, then a penalty should be awarded !

& to think I fought for your re-instatement Mike !

Confusion comes at ruck time because people who have joined the ruck often go off their feet in an attempt to clear off defending players, which is why players like Tuperic do so well. In fact, he is a ter. Ruck is often formed but he doesn't allow the first man from the attacking team to take him off his feet. People pile in, but he is often the only man on his feet, the reason why he has so many turnovers.

scarletman wrote: But don't forget the main aim of the Referee (well in my case anyway) is to keep the game flowing ... i.e. if it doesn't have a material effect on the game, don't ping it ! It makes for a better spectator sport all round !

I think that's what gets the fans so frustrated. The whole stand can see an offence that has previously been pinged, yet the referee decides to leave it go in the name of good rugby. Not fair on the team that has been infringed against.

That's the referee taking the law into his own hands in my opinion.

I don't have a problem with this. It does not prevent a legal 'jackal' by the tackling team, if their second man there (or presumably the tackler if he's released the tackled player and got back to his feet) from leaning over and grabbing the ball, in which case the guy on the floor will be penalised unless he gives up the ball.

If the defenders aren't quick enough to do this before the attackers claim the ball, then tough IMO.